GERMANY: Where the weird stuff comes from

Why is it that truly weird stuff comes into the Church from Germany?

I think it may be because of a) the Church Tax and b) that Rahner won in German speaking countries.

Here is an example of how weird things are in Germany.   HERE and HERE



Liturgy Science Theatre 3000!

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. NBW says:

    This kind of crap makes Card. Kaspar look Orthodox! Is it the “Star Trek” Mass. Beam me up Scottie, I’ve seen enough!

  2. Genna says:

    The Aliens.

  3. Pearl says:

    So, does the church tax mean they can afford to send all the priests to dance school??

    I literally got dizzy watching the first one. I was seriously expecting the redhead boy to burst out giggling.

  4. MrTipsNZ says:

    Videos won’t play, say they have been disabled by owner.

    But its not unique to Germany – its everywhere. Fr Matthew Fox, Richard Rohr and nuns on bus are pretty weird as well. In New Zealand we have the weird situation of a “progressive” children’s story writer (Joy Cowley) having far too much influence in the Palmerston North and Wellington dioceses. No surprise that our metropolitan Achbp. John Dew was on the progressive side at the recent synod.

  5. JBS says:

    I suspect this sort of thing is the product of sexual perversion, or at least perverted sexual attraction. It could prove fruitful for faithful Catholics who are also research psychologists to examine these and so many similar liturgical distortions, when the time is right.

  6. Netmilsmom says:

    That’s not the Holy Roman Catholic Church. I’m not sure what it is, but I don’t belong with those people. Heading out to my nice traditional Novus Ordo without innovation to thank God for my Priest and all the Saints.

  7. APX says:

    Unfortunately I’m stuck in a long line at the bank, so I can’t watch the videos, but just looking at the second one, only one thing comes to mind…

    “…Y M C A. You know it’s fun to stay at the Y M C A. You can get yourself clean; you can have a good meal. You can do whatever you feel…”

  8. Athelstan says:

    I’m trying to figure out if the red dashes on Father’s chasuble constitute some kind of morse code for “Immanentize the Eschaton.”

  9. The Masked Chicken says:

    There’s a lot I could say that would not be nice, but, in all fairness, Germany has had its share of both saints and its sinners.

    Now, if I could just say a less serious word about tin-foil hat matters: obviously, its the first in a long strategy by the Theological Hazard Envelopment Membership (T. H. E. M) to control the behavior of clergy in countries that use umlauts.

    The Chicken

  10. marcelus says:

    sad to see the kids being intructed to do this dance. What on earth was that? a dance or was it Mass? or a part of it?

  11. rosaryarmy says:

    I assume all of the spinning around is because they can’t remember which way is ad orientum.

  12. TWF says:

    I don’t know what religion this reflects, but it certainly isn’t a reflection of the Holy Catholic Faith. I can find far more in orthodoxy in an evangelical Protestant service than I can with these sorts…

  13. cpttom says:

    I am at a loss watching those videos. What is that spinning around even supposed to be, the reason for it, and where in the mass it is used for? It just looks like a good way to end up dizzy and fall and smack one’s head. I’m just a simple CATHOLIC, I don’t understand these sophisticate new fangle dance numbers.

  14. Gregg the Obscure says:

    More in the line of Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Friedrich Nietsche, A. H. Schickelgruber, etc. The late 19th century to date has produced some foul specimens among the German volk, as bad as the 15th-16th century or 5th-7th century cohorts.

  15. JohnE says:

    I can see by the “huge” attendance that the liturgical innovations are having a tremendous impact. I feel sorry for those who truly don’t know any better.

  16. Alba says:

    I’ve been attending Mass in German churches almost every July since 2009 and I’m glad to say that I have never come across anything like this. On the contrary, I attended Mass in one church where they sang the Gloria and the Creed according to the Missa de Angelis. As I intend going back, long may my luck continue. It would fair ruin my holiday if I came across any nonsense like this.

  17. notadesperatehousewife says:

    Response to video #1: I did a Google translation. This is actually a dance in celebration of Pentecost. My initial thoughts while watching video #1: How pretty! Maybe Fr. Z. has gone too far, this time, to refer to this as, “weird”. At least they are still celebrating Pentecost as they traditionally should be, this time of year.
    My response to video #2. What the….? Never mind. Fr. Z. was right. This isn’t just weird. It’s freakin’ weird! Is there some sort of telepathic communication going on here?

  18. Patti Day says:

    This is awful, not worthy of the space it takes up. The people, including the children, look like they are under some kind of spell.

  19. Cantor says:

    MrTipsNZ –

    Whenever you see that message, you can right-click in the black box where that message shows and select “Copy video URL”. Then open a new browser window, paste the URL in the address line, and voile! In this case the URL is:

  20. pelerin says:

    In the first video they have obviously been influenced by the Whirling Derviches of Istanbul who whirl round and round until they put themselves into a hypnotic trance. I’m surprised the German Priest and servers did not all fall flat on their faces when they stopped. As for the second – words fail me but I got the giggles when the black haired man/woman appeared in front of the black table? and appeared to lose her head!

  21. acardnal says:

    As Arte Johnson on “Laugh-In” would say to Peter Sellers, “Very interesting. . .but stupid.”

  22. pelerin says:

    Watching the second video again – I’m a glutton for punishment – they all look like druids waiting for the sun to come up and greeting it with their arms outstretched. I believe this is done at Stonehenge on midsummers day each year. And the bibles/missals? if that is what they are are placed just like a row of prehistoric stones. It all looks so pagan.

  23. torch621 says:

    I don’t know if it’s been pointed out already but the vestments are hideous.

  24. Rachel K says:

    I think the tomes that they place on the altar are copies of Humanae Vitae! Ready to be sacrificed on the altar of sexual perversity!
    On a serious note, I do agree with JBS that this is the fruit of distortion of the natural order in our sexuality. Why are the women there? Why do they look like men?
    On an even more serious note, I have visited Germany several times, my friend is married to a German guy, and I think as a nation they have some strange ideas. Don’t forget that their arcane outlawing of Home education comes directly from laws put in place by Hitler and never since revoked- do check that one out if you are interested, it is a fact.

  25. JViktor says:

    The vestments of the servers look very pagan Roman to me. Maybe they missunderstood what the word Roman means in the term Roman Rite :) .

  26. lsclerkin says:

    The Oompa Loompa dance.
    Sigh… :(

  27. Michael says:

    Three options are all I can think of here:

    a) These people have no belief in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass; b) they have no knowledge of it; or c) most probably, they have neither.

    People like this need prayer, big time.

  28. thomas tucker says:

    This isn’t worship; it’s entertainment.

  29. StMichael71 says:

    I wondered if it was Evangelical but, nope, on further examination it does, in fact, claim to be Catholic. However, like other people on the comments, I’ve seen some crazy sh*t in Deutschland, but nothing this nuts. The main reason I was wondering about their religious affiliation is that the lady and the other guys in procession are wearing stoles on their left shoulders – those look like short orarions for deacons, which is a “syncretist” practice taken up by some Protestants who mix Western and Eastern vestments. I’m not sure what’s going on. It’s at least somewhat a happy event that their orientation of the altar for Pentecost appeared to be ad orientem, despite everything else.

  30. Unwilling says:

    The problem with this kind of leitourgia is that it is not The Tradition of the Church.

    The bare idea of dancing as worship to the Lord God is not foreign in our religion. (1Sam 6:14ff) King David, author of the Psalter, danced wildly (nude or semi-so) before the Ark, contrary to the snobby taste of his day (6:16,20). Furthermore, the movements in the video are solemn and graceful; and the descent of the Holy Spirit in [albeit quadrilateral] tongues of flame was clever. But a rite of worship can be as historical enriched and as choreographically beautiful as imaginable without being suitable for the central prayer of Catholics. That is because our usage is given us and commanded by the unambiguous words and imitable actions of God himself.

    Our worship is a re-enactment of Jesus Christ’s Last Supper. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not “based on” or “inspired by” that Last Supper — it is the Last Supper that he ate on “the night he was betrayed” and ordered his disciples (including us) to participate in. The Church always knew its duty to re-enact to perpetuate this Holy Rite, for us men and for our Salvation”. The Mass is not for our entertainment, aesthetic edification, or emotional stimulation.

    Over the centuries, holy and inspired individuals found ways to bring out more profoundly the full meaning of the simple acts demonstrated by Christ. And it took centuries for the canon of the Mass to be perfected, longer than it took for the Canon of Scripture to be finished. Insofaras the Canon of Scripture is unchangeable, even by Popes, but the form of worship can be so adjusted, the analogy is not complete. But it is near. At Trent both were fixed, the intention was, forever. Just as Biblical scholarship requires us to make small changes to what we take to be “in” the Canon, so some small alterations in Eucharistic worship are possible and maybe desirable. But there can be no substantial change to the Canon and there ought not to be any change to the Mass that obscures the fact that its celebration is one and the same, Jesus sacrificial act of giving his flesh and blood for our Salvation.

    That said, can anyone imagine Jesus or any of his disciples “on the night he was betrayed”, or for that matter Paul breaking bread at Ephesus (Acts 20:7-9), doing any whirling around with sprinkles from above?

  31. mpolo says:

    The books on the altar in video #2 are the new official songbooks for all of Germany. (Due to printing errors, some parts of the country got them last Advent, and around here we got them just a month or so ago…) The “dance” is trying to recreate the modern art “logo” on the front of the books. Which begs the question of why someone would do an interpretive dance of that, or why they’d do it in church, but that’s at least the background.

  32. SimonR says:

    I felt dizzy just watching the first video! Simply appalling!

  33. gracie says:

    The books standing in an arc on the table are straight from the granite slab motif of “2001: A Space Odyssey”.

  34. tzard says:

    Look out, they’re spinning out of control!

    One of the altar servers is going to trip and fall into the congregation and someone’s going to lose an eye. Were I there, I’d cover my eyes for that very reason. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

  35. aviva meriam says:

    I’d just like to know why….
    Does anyone know what their intent was?

  36. Kathleen10 says:

    For the zillionth time, why is this bizarre behavior allowed. Why is the FSSP or the FFI given a hard time when there is THIS going on? That makes no sense in whatever universe these people are.
    I admit I’m curious about the red dashes on Fr.’s gear and the red dashes floating down. It looks like people in the loft are trying to pay them to stop.

  37. APX says:

    Are you sure this is Roman Catholic? Why are there women dressed as clerics dancing around with the priest?

  38. robtbrown says:

    Unwilling says,

    Our worship is a re-enactment of Jesus Christ’s Last Supper. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not “based on” or “inspired by” that Last Supper — it is the Last Supper that he ate on “the night he was betrayed” and ordered his disciples (including us) to participate.

    Disagree. And so does Joseph Ratzinger. (1)

    The substance of what you’re saying is that the content of the Eucharist is the Sacrifice, but the structure (form) of the Eucharist is a Meal. The problem with that is that the Last Supper happened before Christ’s Death and points to it. If it had happened after His Resurrection, then the Eucharist would be a memorial of the Last Supper.


  39. ACS67 says:

    Please keep in mind, these people are in “full communion” with the Catholic Church….and the SSPX are not….yep….that’s how it goes…right.

  40. RJHighland says:

    (Only could view the 2nd video) I love it, these folks are in full communion and obviously have the blessing of their bishop who is not in schism or excommunicated or anything like that so what they are doing is good in the eyes of Rome and if it is good in the eyes of Pope Francis and the hierarchy then let them have their fun, all paths lead to heaven right? We have a Holy Pope that set the stage for this type of worship, one blessed Pope that signed off on the alterations to the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass and the doctrinal modifications of Vatican II that allowed for this and another Holy Pope that probably has participated in something like this, and the current Pope would feel right at home, so more power to them it is just one of the many ways God wants to be worshipped. Let’s make sure we excommunicate all those folks going to SSPX chapels though, those folks are heathens!

  41. iteadthomam says:

    This parish needs to be exorcised of the demon of effeminacy.

  42. Matt Robare says:

    Used properly, I think liturgical dancing has its place. For example, a clever priest might use the threat of it to encourage more Confessions or to remind the parishoners of the reality of Hell. Alternatively, the CIA might make use of it as a method of “enhanced interrogation.”

  43. MmeScherzo says:

    Well, to be fair, Father, Germany has been colonized by a lot of Turks, so it isn’t any wonder that the femenpriests all whirl like Dervishes:

  44. ChesterFrank says:

    Yes, it does look like something out of Bizarro world and it did leave me spinning. Apparently there is a series of youtube posts by that individual, and I was able to trace back to the organizations website:
    It made no sense to me, but I hope someone who views that website,and who has knowledge of German, can explain to me what it is all about. I am so confused.

  45. Aaarggh! Flashbacks! The nylon – it’s closing in on me!

  46. Longinus says:

    A Google search indicates that this is Maria-Geburt-Kirche (Nativity of Mary Church) in Aschaffenburg- Schweinheim, Germany. Anyone know what diocese that would be?

  47. marcelus says:

    RJHighland says:
    1 November 2014 at 8:36 pm
    (Only could view the 2nd video) I love it, these folks are in full communion and obviously have the blessing of their bishop who is not in schism or excommunicated or anything like that so what they are doing is good in the eyes of Rome and if it is good in the eyes of Pope Francis and the hierarchy then let them have their fun, all paths lead to heaven right? We have a Holy Pope that set the stage for this type of worship, one blessed Pope that signed off on the alterations to the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass and the doctrinal modifications of Vatican II that allowed for this and another Holy Pope that probably has participated in something like this, and the current Pope would feel right at home, so more power to them it is just one of the many ways God wants to be worshipped. Let’s make sure we excommunicate all those folks going to SSPX chapels though, those folks are heathens!

    Do not be naive… It is not right to ALSO blame this on Francis… This people have been around when Benedict and maybe before.It did not start on 3/13/13

  48. How woeful that these priests and laypeople are corrupting the hearts and souls of these children. I fear most if not all of them, because of garbage like this, will turn away from Christ and embrace the secular life or worse in Germany. In a way I sympathize with them a little, only if their basis is “this is utterly stupid.” Aside from that, it would be sorrowful that they would become prodigal sons and daughters who would maybe, never come home to their Father again. I hate to give credence to the Radical Catholic Reactionaries, but it`s stuff like this that makes me think the writing is on the wall and perhaps we are at the starting point for a minor/Great Chastizement.

  49. Darren says:

    Wow… makes the worst I have every personally witnessed seem so solemn and orthodox! And I have seen some bad abuses…


    so sad

  50. RichR says:


    I’m not following the point you’re trying to make.

    Would you say that the sacrifice at the Last Supper, the Cross, and the Masd are the selfsame sacrifice?

  51. Father G says:

    Completely laughable.

    The Whirling Dervishes ( ) and even Stevie Nicks ( ) do better twirls.

  52. RichR says:

    Because that’s what Aquinas says

  53. Venerator Sti Lot says:


    You can follow this up variously via the English and the German Wikipedia: Diocese of Mainz, Bishop Karl Cardinal Lehmann (since 1982), Archdiocese of Freiburg im Breisgau, when the lower-quality version of the first video was loaded, Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, when the second was loaded, Archbishop Reinhard Cardinal Marx.

    The German Wikipedia article for Aschaffenburg has a link to that for the Maria Geburt church in Schweinheim where they were filmed. It includes a photo of the Neo-Gothic church as it appeared in 1900. In 1955 the transformation of the interior began, including a Table-style altar; in 1961, it was ‘de-Gothicized’; and in 1969, completely “transformed”. The priest who whirls like a Dervish and loaded the videos has been there since 1990.

  54. robtbrown says:

    RichR says:


    I’m not following the point you’re trying to make.

    Would you say that the sacrifice at the Last Supper, the Cross, and the Masd are the selfsame sacrifice?

    I was addressing not the content of the Eucharist (Transubstantiation & Sacrifice) but rather the structure. I think that the structure should indicate a Sacrifice rather than a Meal. Thus the elevations following the consecrations, which symbolize Christ being lifted up on the Cross.

    The priest is not re-enacting the Last Supper.

    Perhaps this will help.

    Historical Roman Rite:
    Content: Transubstantiation and Sacrifice
    Structure: Transubstantiation and Sacrifice

    Protestant Eucharistic Celebration:
    Content and Structure: Meal

    Novus Ordo:
    Content: Transubstantiation and Sacrifice
    Structure: Meal

  55. Sonshine135 says:

    These folks are in pure, Spartan church mode. The actual sanctuaries more so than the abusive dancing set the stage for me. These churches are devoid of any beauty. Not a tabernacle, statue, or even a painting could be found. I am sad for these people. Is this really the best they could give to God?

  56. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Is it conceivable that the first video is part of a (very uncharacteristic!) celebration of the Divine Liturgy, and Markus Krauth, bi-ritual? The music is a setting of the Trisagion, in any case.

    The parish website which ChesterFranks links is worth browsing around. The “in Dialogue” events include one entitled “Is liturgy theater and theater liturgy?” and another, “Liturgy as Eating – Eating as Liturgy”, while that entitled “Secret Water” includes a contribution on “Water – esoteric and scientific”.

    Under the category “Liturgie” (in the sidebar) there is a thank-you note photo to “all who helped shape this year’s festive Liturgies”, presumably related to the Easter Vigil, with an unfortunate evocation of a swastika in the arrangement of the candles (!).

  57. Elizabeth D says:

    There is another one where a big string of (12?) people in albs circle the church slowly carrying furniture items like small tables or benches on their heads. Then at the end they put the furniture upside down on the floor and stand on it. One guy has his upside down on a step and is standing on it, which looks somewhat unsafe. Title says “Liturgische Performance zur Fusswaschung” which seems to mean “Liturgical Performance for Washing of Feet”… Holy Thursday??? Is this instead of getting their feet washed? Baffling.

  58. Venerator Sti Lot says:


    There appears to be usually an early Baroque Madonna, brought there (to a previous building) in 1805 from the Loretto Chapel of the Capuchin Friary in Mainz after the French shut that down in 1802: perhaps they set it aside for the whirling.

  59. BobP says:

    Wonder if they could teach me to dance like that.

    Kidding, of course. Have to take a Dramamine after watching that.

  60. incredulous says:

    I’m glad to have found a catholic version of Rihanna’s and Mikky Ekko’s Stay. It’s especially touching the enactment of the refrain “round and around and around and around we go…”

  61. Fr_Sotelo says:

    Those dancing scenes could have been filmed at parishes in the U.S. at one time or other. I don’t know why people can’t just sit still and pray at Mass. They have to “do something” like get up and twirl round and round. I congratulate the kids for not bursting out laughing or singing “London Bridge is Falling Down” while they twirl around like that.

  62. Franko says:

    What did I just watch?

    The look of confusion and utter embarrassment on the faces of those altar boys in the second video was pretty hilarious though. For real. It stops being funny when you realize they’ll be running from the Church as fast as they can as soon as they’re old enough to drive a car…

  63. Martlet says:

    In all honesty, I have never seen anything like this in the German churches I sometimes attend, namely St Servus in Boppard and the Abbey of Maria Laach. Before we moved, we attended Heilig Kreuz in Bad Kreuznach. In all three, chant is used a lot and Maria Laach is packed to the gills on Sunday mornings. I suspect that there are many who simply do not register their faith when they move into a new house, to avoid the Church Tax. I also suspect, but have no way of knowing, that they are the ones who actually put money in the collection box.

  64. Amateur Scholastic says:

    The Mass is the Sacrifice at Calvary. It is that Sacrifice, made present in a certain time and place, in an unbloody manner.

    Or as Trent puts it:

    “Jesus Christ, our Lord and God, when he was about to offer himself once on the altar of the Cross to God the Father, making intercession by means of his death, so that he might gain there an eternal redemption, since his priesthood was not to be extinguished by death, at the last Supper, ‘on the night that he was handed over’, left to his beloved Spouse the Church a visible sacrifice, such as the nature of man requires, by which the bloody sacrifice achieved once upon the Cross might be represented and its memory endure until the end of the age, and its saving power be applied to the remission of those sins which are daily committed by us.”

    You will find an excellent explanation if you Google “fr thomas crean sacrifice mass”, without the quotes.

    One reason I became a trad was because I came to realise how much the New Rite tones down the sacrificial aspect. Go and read the Old Rite offertory if you don’t believe me.

  65. Quilisma says:

    As I watch the second one, Youtube recommends “Mother Angelica on Blasphemy” …

  66. Kerry says:

    Did I see Yoko Ono in the audience?

  67. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    The second video has something to do with a bookcover – a book of ‘the praise of God’ – and (apparently) a drawing of an ‘Orante’ on that bookcover. The choreographic ‘act’ is an ‘Orante’ with a – ‘twist’? Google Translate gives a rich variety of words related to “Drehung”, from ‘revolution’ to ‘screw’. If I am not mistaken, the organ begins the tune of ‘O Come, O Come Immanuel’ near the end. A (screwy) service related to a book presentation in Advent?

  68. robtbrown says:

    Fr_Sotelo says:
    Those dancing scenes could have been filmed at parishes in the U.S. at one time or other. I don’t know why people can’t just sit still and pray at Mass. They have to “do something” like get up and twirl round and round.

    It’s very American (Germanic). On the one hand, it’s why the US went from no male monasteries (OSB and OCSO) to over 50 in about 100 years and built 28 Jesuit universities in about 150 years.

    On the other, it’s why Americans often think that Communion in the hand (which is to “do something”) is better than on the tongue.

    I congratulate the kids for not bursting out laughing or singing “London Bridge is Falling Down” while they twirl around like that.

    Most kids think that kind of stuff is dumb. It’s what is planned by adults who have no rapport with kids. In trying to play to “kid culture”, they give them nothing that will last into adolescence.

  69. pelerin says:

    The link given by Elizabeth D is incredible – worse than the other two I think. Could be titled ‘the dance of the furniture removers’. How on earth the congregation keep straight faces I do not know. It appears to be the same church as before with the whirling derviches.

    So Cardinal Burke is not allowed to celebrate the Mass of Ages and yet this type of ‘entertainment’ is allowed in a church. So sad – so very sad.

  70. Some thoughts…

    1. It’s clearly the same church in both videos.
    2. There is, I think, a tabernacle, more’s the pity. Look behind the moon-disk and you’ll see it to the left. It’s clearer in the second video.
    3. They are clearly imitating the Roman tradition of rose petals dropped in the Pantheon on Pentecost. Not very successfully. (I think the priest’s vestment is meant to evoke that as well.)
    4. Look at the kids’ faces. They don’t get this at all. It’s the grownups who love this dance. The kids hate it.

    I saw this before heading over for the 9 am Mass, at which we had six servers, all in cassock and surplice, and gloves! We had incense, torches, the whole thing. We do this every week at 9 am, and on other occasions as well.

    I thought about showing this to a couple of the boys, to let them know what they are “missing.” I have no doubt of their reaction.

  71. Oh, and I just bet the grownups are either readers or extraordinary ministers of holy communion. I shudder to consider anything else.

  72. Theodore says:

    This is how far we’ve fallen as a civilization: The first performance of the Rites of Spring caused a riot in the theater. Mayhap we should do the same.

  73. Nobis Quoque Peccatoribus says:

    The only light in this wacky darkness was the disgsuted look on the altar boys’ faces. For the moment they’re still normal, unlike the adults forcing them to go through this horrible experience.

  74. Rich says:

    What religion is the video from?

  75. Rich says:

    What religion is the video from?

  76. majuscule says:

    I am trying to think of something positive to say!

    The video Elizabeth D linked to apparently had no music.

    Okay, positive mode off…I realize that perhaps those white robed people may have only one pair of shoes and those would be athletic shoes. I suppose they may have only light colored pants (or at least pants with light colored cuffs).

    I was hoping to visit some cemeteries this week but I’m afraid I am not finding it easy to remain detached from sin. Sigh.

  77. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    I seem to have misremembered the German Wikipedia article on the church in question, “Maria Geburt (Aschaffenburg)”: it was not “completely transformed” in 1969, but in 1999 (nine years into the time there of the current priest, Markus Krauth) – and, for what it is worth, with a Viennese connection – “according to the overall concept of the sculptor and artist Leo Zogmayer, Vienna”. He has his own German Wikipedia article. His Archbishop has been Christoph Cardinal Schönborn since 1995.

    I was also mistaken in describing the link ChesterFranks provided as “the parish website”: the Wikipedia article has a link to that – at it does not immediately bring you to what he links. The photos in the article – and the Wiki “Commons” – give no real impression of the current interior of the church, such as can be found via the “dialog” web address. Whatever – if anything – it ‘means’, different ‘audiences’ easily get different impressions of church and parish. The ‘artsy’ parish site can lead to the “dialog” one, but it seems to me, after a bit of browsing, that it gives a generally less extreme impression than the “dialog” one – and the priest’s YouTube account.

  78. FrHorning says:

    These folks cannot be Catholic. Aren’t these people Lutherans?

  79. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Among the publications listed on the parish website is “a sensual sermon for Trinity Sunday” entitled, “Can Kissing be a Sin?” There is also a contribution by Cardinal Lehmann to a publication on the “Redesign of the Maria Geburt Church”.

  80. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Sonshine135 wrote, “These folks are in pure, Spartan church mode.” They also have a publication about what has happened since the “redesign” entitled ‘laetitia vacui – nichts als freude’ [nothing as joy].

  81. Cantor says:

    Fr. Fox – Please do post your altar boys’ reactions when you show this to them. It will be fascinating to learn “out of the mouths of babes” (with no intended insult for your young men).

  82. ConstantlyConverting says:

    The like their opera over the top in Germany too… :S

  83. Nordic Breed says:

    The first video made me dizzy. I am appalled at the spiritual perversion of the children and wonder how wandering around in circles in a zombie-like state can be in any way construed as prayer or worship of God. The most disgusting aspect of all was doing it to the words (in Greek), “Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One have mercy on us” which is contained in the Extraordinary Form Good Friday liturgy. Very pagan, and dare I say, blasphemous.

  84. rbbadger says:

    The Episcopalians, or rather, Episcopagans are fully capable of doing similar nonsense without state support. (Not that I defend the Church Tax system, by the way).

    Celebrating the 40th anniversary of the East Asian Ministries, whoever does the liturgy planning at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco, thought that this was a good idea for the processional. There are wymyn simulating the clerical state and a wyshyp, namely Katherine Jefferts Schori herself.

  85. Charlotte Allen says:

    They really like those one-shoulder stoles in Germany.

  86. Cyril says:

    Anybody think the women are supposed to be “deaconesses”? Right…

  87. just creepy.

    I don’t know where this church is exactly, but I wonder if the strangeness has anything to do with the fact that the satanic Order of the Illuminati of Bavaria is in the uppermost echelon of the Masonic sects.

  88. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Tina in Ashburn,

    It is in a more northwestern part of Bavaria than Ingolstadt, where Adam Weishaupt founded the Illuminati. Hermann Gruber’s 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia article about the “Illuminati” has this striking passage about Weishaupt at the end of the section on their “History”: “After 1787 he renounced all active connexion with secret societies, and again drew near to the Church, displaying remarkable zeal in the building of the Catholic church at Gotha. He died on 18 November, 1830, ‘reconciled with the Catholic Church, which, as a youthful professor, he had doomed to death and destruction’–as the chronicle of the Catholic parish in Gotha relates.” A cheering thought – though when a whole parish seems so dominated by and even dedicated to such ponderously and elaborately self-satisfied nonsense as is evident at Maria Geburt in Schweinheim, any prayed-for deliverance will follow a different course than that of Weishaupt and his family.

  89. Sonshine135 says:

    Tina in Ashburn,

    This seems to be a complete and total wreckovation, but I am not sure of Illunminati influences. I found the Wikipedia article in German, and it has a picture from the church in 1900 compared to today. There is no comparison. I went on the church website as well. The main page has several pictures in a slideshow format. Trust me when I say, these videos aren’t the only fruity things that happen at this church.

  90. The Masked Chicken says:

    It is pretty obvious, speaking of Charismatic history, that the first dance is what is known as The Circle Dance, which was common in early Shaker history. In fact, the song, Simple Gifts, is based on that dance:

    ‘Tis the gift to be simple, ’tis the gift to be free
    ‘Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be,

    And when we find ourselves in the place just right,
    ‘Twill be in the valley of love and delight.

    When true simplicity is gained,
    To bow and to bend we shan’t be ashamed,

    To turn, turn will be our delight,
    Till by turning, turning we come ’round right.

    Of course, the Shakers were expecting to experience ecstatic phenomena during the Circle Dance. This is why, in in part, they are called Shakers – because of the shaking that often occurred when it was claimed that the Holy Spirit took over. Much more could be said, but this is not the time for a Charismatic history lesson. Suffice it to say, a first-person account pretty clinches it (from, Living Among the Shakers, 1843:

    The Power of the Dance

    “At half past seven p.m. on the dancing days, all the members retired to their separate rooms, where they sat in solemn silence, just gazing at the stove, until the silver tones of the small tea-bell gave the signal for them to assemble in the large hall.

    The Shaker Dance
    Thither they proceeded in perfect order and solemn silence. Each had on thin dancing shoes; and on entering the door of the hall they walked on tip-toe, and took up their positions as follows: the brothers formed a rank on the right, and the sisters on the left, facing each other, about five feet apart.

    After all were in their proper places the chief Elder stepped into the center of the space, and gave an exhortation for about five minutes, concluding with an invitation to them all to ‘go forth, old men, young men and maidens, and worship God with all their might in the dance.’ Accordingly they ‘went forth,’ the men stripping off their coats and remaining in their shirt-sleeves.

    First they formed a procession and marched around the room in double-quick time, while four brothers and sisters stood in the center singing for them. After marching in this manner until they got a little warm, they commenced dancing, and continued it until they were pretty well tired.

    During the dance the sisters kept on one side, and the brothers on the other, and not a word was spoken by any of them. After they appeared to have had enough of this exercise, the Elder gave the signal to stop, when immediately each one took his or her place in an oblong circle formed around the room, and all waited to see if anyone had received a ‘gift,’ that is, an inspiration to do something odd. Then two of the sisters would commence whirling round like a top, with their eyes shut; and continued this motion for about fifteen minutes; when they suddenly stopped and resumed their places, as steady as if they had never stirred…” [emphasis. mine]

    The Chicken

  91. paladin says:

    Thomas Tucker wrote:

    This isn’t worship; it’s entertainment.

    Exactly… and what’s more: it’s bad (in teh sense of being low quality) entertainment! Has anyone else noticed that a majority of the “happy clappy dancey” music and “liturgical experimentations” are things which, if they were forced to compete in the open market (in nightclubs, theaters, etc.), wouldn’t last a single night? (How many people who’d seethe about removing “Haugen/Haas/other dreck” actually have CD’s of their music at home? How many who earnestly prepare these clumsy dance/pantomimes/etc. would pay good money to go out on the town and buy tickets for something like this in a play, musical or movie?) The only reason much of this survived is that the peddlers have a captive audience… and a confused one, at that.

  92. MAJ Tony says:

    A “Grosser Zapfenstreich” (Grand Tattoo ceremony) would be more liturgically appropriate (which it isn’t).ßer_Zapfenstreich Honestly, good liturgy has more in common with a military parade than it does with this dreck. That said, I’ve attended three Masses in Germany – Palm Sun 2011 in Mainzer Dom, Easter Fri in one of my ancestral parishes, Sankt Romanus, Schweighausen (Schuttertal) 2011, and Whitsun 2011 in Koelner Dom, and they were straight up OF Sung “High” Masses in German. No monkey biz, though other travelers have told stories. The CLOSEST I experienced “monkey business” was an orchestral High Mass at the Salzburger Dom for Rupertikirtag (St. Rupert was (past tense, no longer a proper parish, Evansville, IN)) my parish patron, Evansville Diocese) when at the end of Mass, they played what apparently was “Climb Any Mountain.” Otherwise, the whole service, which begins at the tomb of St. Rupert in the Stiftkirche St. Petrus (Benedictine Monastery Church), and processes to the cathedral, was pretty legit. My experience at Einsiedeln Abbey was without issue, as well.

  93. jilly4life says:

    It is so sad to see what the brutalist architectural movement has done to churches, especially churches in Germany. The gray floors with the black pillar (tabernacle) and the black barrel (?) seem to exemplify what brutalism was all about. Over designed form without style, ugly (often square) blocks of rock (usually a formed concrete, but here it looks like they use a higher quality stone and polished it). Of course they have to dance and make fools of themselves, there is nothing else to look at.

  94. CradleRevert says:

    I couldn’t help but laugh at that first video. Seriously, what is even going on there? I was just waiting for someone for tip over from dizziness.

    In the second video, it looks like the priest is wearing that ugly chasuble that you posted from that window in Rome last week, Father.

  95. jflare says:

    I have the same reaction to this as I had to the first time I saw liturgical dance.
    I’m still scratching my head, saying “What the F**K is THAT???” to myself.

    When I go to Mass, I expect the sights and sounds to mean something. The prayers mean something. The color of the vestments and the designs I see mean something. The music means something. The priest’s gestures mean something.
    Granted, reading all the comments, I can find a few possibilities for what the dance COULD mean, but that’s the problem: Attending Mass should be a holy, but defined, well-orchestrated event, one in which I understand the proceedings and can pray accordingly. Attending Mass should not require a five-minute dissertation in “what someone did 19 centuries ago in a Roman (pagan) temple”. I frankly don’t care what the Romans thought worship should be. I’m attending Mass for my salvation, not a cheap rock concert without the rock music and poor choreography.

    Ironically, my father–now in his 70’s–has always complained that nobody ever understood the Latin at Mass, so we might as well use the vernacular. Especially after seeing this madness, I might contend that I can’t make an ounce of sense of this, even though it appears to be offered in the vernacular.
    If this is our idea of “relating” to people, I think we need to return to the “stodgy old days” of old ladies clicking their Rosary beads. Yes, I’d prefer they should pay attention to the events of the Mass, but since I can’t make an ounce of sense of this, I’d say the old ladies might as well click away.

    At least THEY will be praying!
    Somebody certainly should be.

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