Another Note on the Dubious Dubia™ concerning “Traditionis custodes”

The Bergoglians – papalatrous and fervid – are today doing exactly what their progressivist counterparts in the 1970’s did: they accuse “rigid” bishops of “not getting with the groovy program, man.”

Back then, the progressivist fear was that young people were rejecting and fleeing the Faith. Changes had to be made!   It was necessary to get rid of all sorts of things that no one wanted to get rid of, despite the fact that the Council Fathers commanded that they should be kept.

Now their Bergogliatic fear is that young people are rejecting the progressivists’ cult and are seeking the cult of their forebears.

The Bergoglians are so Pelagian, so self-absorbed in their personal agendas that they are blinded to the fact that the Faith really can’t (unlike certain other of their interests) be shoved down people’s throats!

Ironically, in the sunny Bergoglian fields of the Vatican II springtime that perennially-promised fruit of the Novus Ordo, attracting young people, is at long last ripening…

… wherever young people can find a Traditional Latin Mass.

Taurina cacata and the explanatory Roach Clips are surely going to accelerate unbridled gratitude for and enthusiasm about the Novus Ordo among young people… finally!

Can we doubt that a strict implementation of those loving pastoral provisions – which we are paternalistically reassured  were in no way intended to marginalize those who desire traditional worship, nossir! – is surely going to foster in young people, and their parents, warm affection for their local bishops?

And the seminarians!   They are going to be thrilled to be part a diocese that carries out pogroms against the Traditional Latin Mass!   They won’t give other groups – or the door – a second thought.

Ah… springtime.

Consider being a “Custos Traditionis” – HERE!

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in Be The Maquis, Hard-Identity Catholicism, Pò sì jiù, Self-absorbed Promethean Neopelagians, Si vis pacem para bellum!, The Coming Storm, The Drill, The future and our choices and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.


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  2. Lurker 59 says:

    I can tell you a thing; demon bowls, baring people from the sacraments during the Covid lockdowns, TC, and the abject cruelty on display (while giving a giant pass to those light in the loafers, theologically speaking or otherwise), really has shifted the perceptions of laypeople who care about the matters of faith.

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  4. Eugene says:

    Lurker 59, truer words never spoken.
    Things are not good, and are getting much much worse and they ( the hierarchy) don’t give the slightest d__n.
    I have no hope in the human leadership of the church, we are completely abandoned.

  5. samwise says:

    “The Bergoglians are so Pelagian, so self-absorbed in their personal agendas”

    Fr, you forgot “Promethean” in the above formula. Key ingredient to diagnosing the theft of patrimony currently underway.

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  7. jflare29 says:

    You know, …with all the reference these make to unity, this might’ve made sense to me at 29. After all, why should we not seek unity in offering our highest prayer? I had begun to be displeased with emphasis on community by the end of high school: We seemed to sacrifice genuine competence in this or that practice of faith for the sake of “being one” with our fellow men.
    Buuuuuuutt there remained this teensy little problem with…known departures from “unity” that had already been formally instilled into the Church.
    For example, I recall having performed in a Greek Orthodox church in college, and I recall a Chaldean Catholic being Saddam’s rep during the 2003 invasion. Such experiences reinforced the need to recognize how the Church has some 7 different Rites, Roman being most dominant, yet Byzantine, Chaldean, Mobarite(?), and others still being in communion with Rome.
    For me, these raise a very distinctive and troubling question: These various rites have persisted for hundreds of years; Rome has not deemed a need to dictate to these faith communities that they must embrace the Novus Ordo.
    So if these various rites do not inherently create disunity by their existence, …why is anyone fussed when an extreme–numerical–minority of Catholics wish to celebrate the older Roman Mass? How on earth can anyone be harmed by having the old Mass offered during the same era as the new Mass?

  8. Cornelius says:

    Lurker 59 nails it. In the Benedict days I was happy assisting at either a NO or a TLM. Those days are long gone. Seeing this “papacy’s” war on doctrine, tradition, and now the TLM has thoroughly shifted my perceptions. It’s now the TLM or nothing.

    [Yes. I believe quite a few will be by these new, cruel gestures from Rome hardened into a determination or a hostility that they never had before.]

  9. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    jflare29 writes, “Rome has not deemed a need to dictate to these faith communities that they must embrace the Novus Ordo.

    “So if these various rites do not inherently create disunity by their existence, …why is anyone fussed when an extreme–numerical–minority of Catholics wish to celebrate the older Roman Mass?”

    Indeed! Sadly, the ‘spirit of Vatican II’ or something like it has led to messing around with the Mozarabic Rite and the Ambrosian Rite, and, I get the impression from one thing and another I’ve read at The New Liturgical Movement that such messing has been/is/will be affecting other Rites as well – though I do not know enough details about any of this to know whether this includes any actual ‘reform’ or is all mere self-indulgent messing. And yet none of that analogous messing leads to mandating universal Novus Ordo uniformity.

    In a 24 July post, Fr. John Hunwicke wrote, “Both Bergoglians and some Traddies are currently writing as if S Pius V in 1570 ‘permitted’ rites with more than 200 years behind them to continue.

    “He did not.

    “He ORDERED such old rites to be continued. ‘Nequaquam auferimus’ were his words …’auferimus’ means ‘we take away’, ‘nequaquam’ means ‘not at all’.

    “What he did allow was his own new 1570 Edition to be brought into use if a bishop and his entire Chapter agreed.”

    One can imagine allowing Latin Novus Ordo celebrated Ad Orientem as a novel Use or Rite next to all the others – as if a new monastic or mendicant order were allowed its own new Rite – but, more than that?

    [Good reminder.]

  10. mbabc123 says:

    Getting with the program… Well the Pope laments priests not praying the Nervous Ordo properly. So maybe we need to report/snitch on those priests/parishes who don’t use the Roman Canon most Sundays (GRIM 365a), don’t give Gregorian chant the main place (GIRM 41), don’t pray Mass ad orientem (GIRM 157-158), etc, etc.

  11. mo7 says:

    I was baptized just before vat II.
    Raised my kids in the NO. After all those NO years I began to suspect there had to be something more. It was a simple intuition, like a formula mystery novel: something was amiss. What was keeping the Church standing on the corner? Certainly not what I was being presented with every week. [I did try to teach myself]. By 2013, I didn’t know why I was going to church and had one foot out the door. I discovered tradition at the end of BXVI and I’ve not looked back. Praise God and thanks to all those online to support people’s entre into tradition.
    F1 may have had his revolution, but I have had mine too. My 1st grandchild was baptized in the old rite this year, all praise to God!
    My little story is not unique, in fact it’s pretty common. Tradition should have been a joyful revelation, but instead, it’s a hard pill to swallow. The pope, the Pope! wants to take the church from my grandchildren and give it over to I-don’t-know-who, but I know it’s not the poor, downtrodden, the humble or the meek. F1 can’t have it, it doesn’t belong to him. All F1 is doing is forging for himself an unfortunate and desperate legacy, one I’m calling the VII-Covid legacy. Eventually, F1, his buddies and covid will be gone and placed alongside the failures of the centuries. If F1 can make arbitrary and capricious laws, and BXVI’s moto proprio can be undone, a subsequent pope can undo TC just the same. [I liken F1 is to the burgomeister meisterburger character from a popular christmas cartoon]. I’m praying for that man to come soon, I hope in my lifetime. We just have to persevere in faith and trust our good leadership to guide and unite us. I pray especially for our priests traditional and not, whose life is made difficult by this Pope. [Thank you for this opportunity to rant. It helps to sort out thoughts and relieves the pressure of these painful days].

  12. WVC says:

    @mo7 – My story is the same – not raised in the Old Mass but drawn to it and now transformed by it, along with my now 7 children.

    I’m blessed to live in a parish that is truly a hybrid, with a strong, devoted group of folks going to the Latin Mass but being socially linked with the many families that go only to the Novus Ordo. I am writing a note to the Novus Ordo folks today asking them to write to our bishop. I’m saying that, while they do not go to the Latin Mass, it is the Latin Mass that brought our paths together, and without it both of our journeys in this life would have been without many valuable blessings. Now that the Pope wants to tear us apart, I am asking them to join me in appealing to our bishop to have mercy on us.

    EVERYONE needs to speak up NOW. One does not need to be a Jew to denounce the Nazis.

    [People of good will need to act together now. You can see what sort of “will” is on the other side, from their Tweets, etc.]

  13. teomatteo says:

    Has anyone in the vatican ever stated that it is a mortal sin not to attend the Holy Mass each Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation without a serious -dire reason?
    (How important is the mass to them if that isnt made clear to catholics?)
    Maybe i missed it…i could have.

  14. Ariseyedead says:

    Wow! Fr. Z is giving out Gold Stars like candy. Springtime indeed!

  15. Ariseyedead says:

    I very much resonate with this post pertaining to the latest “Novus Ordo mandate” from the Vatican. In fact, the very phrase of having the NO “shoved down our throats” came to mind, but I would have said “rammed” instead of “shoved.” I too grew up with the NO and discovered the Old Mass as an adult, in my early thirties. And while my wife and I didn’t immediately fall in love with it, the richness and beauty of it finally won us over. Not to mention the fact that when we think that one of our most favorite saints, St. Francis de Sales, celebrated this form of Holy Mass, we know that it is holy and good for souls! The idea that the current top hierarchy wants to throw all this beautiful liturgical heritage into the dumpster in favor of an alternative that is not working out so well is extremely disheartening. We are very blessed to be in a personal parish situation where our two young priests are eager to continue to serve our traditional community. But I feel for, and pray for, those who are in a less fortunate situation and are deprived of adequate spiritual nourishment.
    St. Francis de Sales, ora pro nobis!!

  16. bourgja says:

    teomatteo, here is a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (2181) : “The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.”

  17. Seppe says:

    mbabc123 and WVC both suggest writing letters…

    In the 1946 Frank Capra classic Christmas movie, “It’s a Wonderful Life”, there is a scene where the Post Office delivers its monumental collection of Letters to Santa Claus as “Exhibit ‘A’ Evidence” before the presiding judge…

    We need to have a similar sustained “daily deluge” of letters, maybe even in triplicate, to our local bishops, the USCCB, and the Roman dicasteries about these matters of related to the TLM… After all, F1 the Merciful has told us repeatedly to “hagan lio!”…

  18. The Egyptian says:

    “Ironically, in the sunny Bergoglian fields of the Vatican II springtime that perennially-promised fruit of the Novus Ordo, attracting young people, is at long last ripening…”
    Fr it is long past RIPE, long long past.
    It’s just about to the limburger stage
    TLM please,

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