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Fr. Z is Moderator of the Catholic Online Forum and the ASK FATHER Question Box. The WDTPRS columns appear weekly in The Wanderer. Fr. Z lives in Rome, though he is often in the USA. He is available for retreats and conferences. E-mail
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  • 19 August 2008

    QUAERITUR: The “liturgist”

    CATEGORY: ASK FATHER Question Box — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 8:00 pm

    You know the jokes…

    What’s the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist?  ...

    or

    You find yourself with two terrorists and liturgist and only have two bullets in your gun….

    So, today I received this question:

    Fr. Z,
                    I deeply love the liturgy and am greatly saddened at the improper celebration of it that is so common in America.  I have been considering this step for some time now and have decided, through prayer, to begin looking more seriously at the possibility of actualizing it.  Curious yet?  I wanted to inquire about becoming a liturgist.  I know, properly speaking, the job should fall to priests.  However, I don’t believe that seminaries are doing the job they ought to be (I have some good evidence of this from my seminarian friends).  From what I have seen there is no degree offered for liturgists, but there ought to be a field of study and a validation format so that some crazy person cannot read some books and insert their own slanted opinion of the liturgy.

    I ask for two reasons, one is concern for some people who call themselves liturgists and the other is to ensure that if I pursue this desire, that I do so within orthodoxy and in line with the magisterium.  Thank you for your time in reading and answering my question.
    I admire your courage!

     

    Yes, degrees are given in liturgical studies.  For example, at Sant’Anselmo in Rome you can get just about any sort of training you want, good, bad or indifferent, depending on your desire to work hard and keep your head clear of some of the strangeness you are still bound to encounter.
     
    Perhaps others would like to chime in about programs for degrees in liturgy.

    In the meantime, I have often mused about the need for a new order of priests called the Rubricians.  Their apostolate would be to save the world through saving the liturgy.  Thus, they go forth to teach clerics and seminarians to say the black and, well.. just do the red, if you get my drift.   Their habit would be a black Roman cassock, trimed in, of course, red, and with a fascia of, of course, red and a black biretta…. which could be trimmed as well.

    But, in in the meantime, I suppose you can start be studying liturgy. 

    Learn Latin and Greek, friend, along with Itailan, French and German.  Start now.

    • • • • • •

    45 Comments

    1. Catholic University of America also grants ecclesiastical degrees (STL, STD) in Liturgical Studies.

      Comment by xathar — 19 August 2008 @ 8:05 pm
    2. There is a very good liturgical studies institute on the campus of Mundelein Seminary, outside of Chicago. I would also encourage your correspondent to consider examining studies in canon law. There is a lot of crossover between the law and the liturgy. Liturgists should have a solid grounding in canon law.

      From a practical standpoint, I think the Church needs more liturgists with canon law degrees – and you’re more likely to have yourself taken seriously if you’re interested in work at a diocesan level.

      Comment by Tim Ferguson — 19 August 2008 @ 8:18 pm
    3. I second Tim’s comment. While at the Sacred Music Colloquium in Chicago this summer, I was able to visit the Liturgical Institute at Mundelein. There are great things happening there. They think with the Church, love the Holy Father’s teaching, and I think that they will produce many servants of the reform of the reform. I can’t say many good things about San Anselmo. From what I understand, a good program of studies in the Sacred Liturgy is being developed at Santa Croce in Rome with Opus Dei.

      Comment by sacerdosinaeternum — 19 August 2008 @ 9:04 pm
    4. In all charity, and speaking as layman who has a graduate degree in theology…

      The two biggest problems in the Church today are: priests who don’t live their vocations; laymen who don’t live their vocations.

      Don’t belittle the countless laymen whose labor and contributions made possible the beauty of the Church. It isn’t priests, bishops, cardinals, or popes, and CERTAINLY NOT liturgists, who finance the building of the great churches, works of art, vestments, etc., etc. It is the laymen. It is only tiny handful of clerics who painted and sculpted the great master works that give glory to the great churches, basilicas, and oratories. The vast majority of the greatest liturgical works of art were crafted by laymen. I know of no clerical architects, but I know a half dozen lay architects designing wonderful ecclesiastical structures, such as the project for Clear Creek Monastery. Those laymen are making a far greater impact on Catholic liturgy than any liturgist, and countless other “lay ecclesial ministers”, with whom I’ve ever had the displeasure of coming in to contact.

      Laymen who want to do these kinds of things I think reveals a bit of unconscious clericalism. We laymen have been given the impression (unfortunately quite often on some Catholic blogs) that only priests can make a significant impact on the liturgy. That isn’t want I encounter in looking at the history of the Church. I certainly haven’t encountered it here in South Bend, Indiana, where the laymen of the Church, and a handful of students at Notre Dame, made the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite flourish in the area.

      If you want to bring about good liturgy, first be a good layman. Fight the battles that laymen must fight with the courage that befits the Catholic laity.

      I would suggest that you pursue architecture, music, or business, the most practical field for the laymen who wants to influence, by financing, Catholic art and liturgy.

      Comment by David Werling — 19 August 2008 @ 9:04 pm
    5. I wonder if our friend would benefit from knowing the types of programs out there, both degree and non-degree programs. Many dioceses have programs to train liturgists for parishes but there are also very formal advanced graduate degrees. What exactly the end-goal is will help to inform what sort of program of studies to begin.

      Comment by Ioannes Andreades — 19 August 2008 @ 9:15 pm
    6. “...some crazy person cannot read some books and insert their own slanted opinion of the liturgy.”

      I knew a priest who used to joke that you had to receive a B- or lower from a certain liturgy professor in order to consider yourself Catholic.

      Comment by Ioannes Andreades — 19 August 2008 @ 9:20 pm
    7. This question is along the lines of something I have been thinking about more and more. The rarely-seen-in-your-average-parish Master of Ceremonies. My limited research (“Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite”) has so far shown that the parish MC can be a layman. I thought about suggesting the idea and volunteer at my local parish, but I figure I would meet with all sorts of resistance as I attempt to rein in the liturgical dancers and such!

      Comment by Geoffrey — 19 August 2008 @ 10:45 pm
    8. Reverend Father,
      May I ask where one can find info on the Rubricians? Is there a website? I googled it but nothing came up. They sound pretty interesting, and I want to check them out. Thanks.

      Comment by Phillip — 19 August 2008 @ 11:30 pm
    9. Phillip: There is no such thing. Fr. Z was simply musing. He said: “I have often mused about the need for a new order of priests called the Rubricians. Their apostolate would be…”

      Perhaps that is your calling, Father… “Founder of the Order of Rubricians Minor” or “ORM”! ;-) [Minor? Maximal!]

      Comment by Geoffrey — 19 August 2008 @ 11:39 pm
    10. There are many theology programs in which you can specialize in liturgy. Notre Dame among them. You’ll need to think carefully about what kind of career you want. If you want to teach at a seminary and do research on liturgy, you’ll really need a Ph.D. (or an ecclesiastical degree like the S.T.L. or S.T.D.). I don’t know what the job market is like, but I imagine it’s not much better than that for philosophy Ph.D.’s. That means you’ll need to go to a top school in order to make a decent living at it. Also, as a rule of thumb for humanities degrees, if you’re looking to make a living as a professor when you get out, you should be able to win full funding and a stipend from the university at which you are studying. That’s a sign that they believe you’re a quality candidate.

      There are a few people who work as parish or diocesan liturgists. For that an M.Div. might be more appropriate (or an M.A. sufficient), along with a great deal