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The results as of 1914 GMT:
UPDATE: 22 Dec 1759 GMT:
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I voted and I also said a prayer for the Bishop involved.
I was looking for “absolutely” but I settled for “yes.”
If you don’t want to abide by the teachings of the Church, then you should not be able to call yourself “Catholic.” Couldn’t be simpler! Interesting that people think they should be allowed to preserve their affiliation with a Church whose teachings they hate.
Miss A., O.P.
A wise and courageous decision by Bishop Olmstead. Let us pray for him and also for those who refuse to understand what they are doing, those who have excommunicated themselves.
Yes 52% as of 1509 EST
At 12:10 pm:
Yes: 52% (350)
No: 48% (327)
1523 EST: 55% yes
yes- and it should be left to the Bishop – He is perfectly within his canonical rights to govern his diocese as he best sees fit. If we are going to second guess bishops when they are within their rights..then we might as well take their Crozier away and break it over our knee! Bishops are shepherds, and they represent Christ.
http://www.arizonacatholic.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/DIOCESE-OF-PHOENIX-STATEMENT-122110.pdf
I didn’t know all this. Regular abortions for ‘psychological stress of the mother’, contraceptive procedures and counseling, etc. etc. This case was just the straw that broke the bishop’s back.
YES.
They have no business calling themselves Catholic if they refuse to act accordingly.
This needs to happen more often – we need more good solid Bishops like Olmstead to stand up for the Faith and not be pushed around by politicians and the media. God bless the good Bishop, I will keep him in my prayers.
I don’t understand the naysayers. At this point, the issue is no longer whether one happens to agree with the hospital or the bishop about the underlying event; the issue is whether or not a putatively Catholic entity can retain that status while openly defying—indeed, denying—the authority of its local ordinary. That question practically answers itself.
Karl Popper held that a test must be falsifiable to be scientific; there must be specific conditions outside the theory that would disprove the theory if they happened. I think there’s a lot to be said for testing the neutrality and seriousness of ideas using a similar method. If open defiance of one’s bishop on a specific case isn’t sufficient to separate oneself from rightful use of the Catholic name, what would be? If their answer is “nothing,” you may simply dismiss their opinion as the shallow, underthought pablum that it has been revealed to be and move on.
At 3:19 CST:
61% Yes
39% No
Bishop Olmsted is a courageous man. And a defender of life…
I completely agree with what Anita Moore said. If you don’t agree with the Church then just leave it… we will pray for your conversion, but why are you trying to change it? It is not going to happen. I think the problem we have is that for too many years too many people in positions of power and service have been trying to be pastoral and forget that being pastoral includes telling and teaching the Truth.
As for the Hospital, if they continue to call themselves Catholic, then they are lying to the people they say they serve. Let the people know the Truth and choose for themselves. If they want to continue killing nascent life then they should let everyone know so we can distant ourselves from them and pray even harder for their salvation and conversion.
If he revokes their catholic status can’t they then proceed to proform as many abortions as they want. I know that if they don’t share catholic beliefs they shouldn’t be a catholic entity, but by allowing them to remain catholic wouldnt that save lives. Isn’t it better to have them begrudgingly refusing abortions than having them proform them in larger numbers? Or has it gotten to the point where the hospital will proform them anyway?
Love watching polls change when Fr. Z’s crowd starts coming down on the right side… :-)
Rather than place an interdict on the hospital, isn’t it possible for the bishop to sack the board and replace it with a genuinely Catholic one? Maybe not in this day and age. Anyway, fair play to the bishop for what he’s doing. I know I shouldn’t but I hate feminist nuns – I really hate ’em.
The poll is looking much better now, but so far the published comments are overwhelmingly critical of the Bishop’s declaration, and many are very scornful. It would be good if some more of us could counteract them with calm, charitable defences of the Church’s teaching and the bishop’s authority.
This ugly blow up is simply bringing into the light of day what has been known but not talked about openly: 1) a pseudo-Catholic religion, very different from real Catholicism, directs the medical ethics of Catholic hospitals and 2) so-called Catholic hospitals have for years been dispensing contraception and performing abortions. The Bishop of Phoenix is simply stating the office: better for the Catholic Church in the U.S. to lose its soapbox on health issues if that soapbox is resting on top of the blood and bodies of dead children.
the Bishop is stating the “obvious” not the “office.”
Yes: 65% (1095)
No: 35% (590)
Total Votes: 1685
It amazes me how Mormon institutions and Muslim institutions in the very same USA mnanage to remain in virtual total fidelity to their respective faiths.
With Catholic institutions it’s the opposite – being out of fidelity is the rule. As with the universities. Over 200 Catholic colleges in the US but only 20 or so are ranked as faithful!?
Something is wrong with this picture. Other faiths seems able to operate their religious institutions and have those same remain faithful.
Why can’t Catholics do this?
None of this adds up.
As I am sure that Bishop Olmsted is, I am deeply saddened by this situation. I did my clinicals for nursing school at Saint Joe’s. And I will always remember how I was comforted by the Blessed Sacrament in the Chapel, the pictures of Pope Benedict and Bishop Olmsted in the main lobby, and the photos of Pope John Paul II’s visit to the hospital in the hallway on the the way to the cafeteria. Devastating, truly. But I support Bishop Olmsted!
Coming so soon after the Feast of Our Lady of Guadelupe, patronness of the unborn and of the Americas, and right before the celebration of the Feast of the Incarnation, I am inclined to see the hand of the Blessed Mother in this courageous decision by the AZ bishop. What better tribute than to affirm life while we are focussed on the Christ Child in the crib whose coming blessed and saved all mankind for future glory.
The poll is not working now. At least I couldn’t access it.
Update: I just tried again and voted with no problem.
66% yes; 34% no
YES they should. No question.
This is a paraphrase of what Randii mentions – that Mormons and Muslims remain faithful to their respective institutions/faiths yet there is so much Catholic infidelity and it doesn’t add up –but don’ t you think it sadly sort of does?
I mean, I don’t know that much about theology. I don’t speak Latin. I have never been to a TLM, or whatever the appropriate term is. But I do know that in I Peter, we’re told we have an enemy who wants to ‘devour’ us. And the last part of CCC #414 says that ‘they (satan and other demons) try to associate man in their revolt against God’.
So wouldn’t the enemy be MORE intent on destroying the Church Jesus Christ founded than he would be on anything which isn’t the Mystical Body of Christ? That really was a question, it was neither rhetorical nor is it meant to be antagonistic in regards to our separated Muslim and Mormon brethren.
I just remember reading about The Cure D’Ars and St. Nicholas of Tolentino who were beaten by demons (as animals or dogs??); it just seems that whether it’s through obvious physical attack as a wild beast or through doctors responsible for infanticide, Satan has always striven to destroy Holy Mother Church. Though he never will, in his relentless evil some of Her children become infidel (?)
It’s sad, horrifying, _____ fill in the blank. But to me, it does kind of seem to add up and it fuels the fire of my hate for Satan.
Btw, he’s what’s wrong with the nun situation too if ya’ ask me.
Yes 66% 1501
No 34% 776
Total Votes: 2277
835 pm MST
I hope not off topic… what do RSM BELIEVE as sisters?? Will that explain how what happened in Phoenix did?? I went to sistersofmercy.org to see what might give.
I’ve deleted 12 sarcastic and mean spirited comments because I have enough to confess as it is. Plus I don’t wanna get in trouble with Father.
On their website this prayer is under the “Earth Spirituality” guide. I only post it because a sister from this order was responsible for an abortion…if what they espoused and taught was loyal to the Magisterium, the Church… would it have happened?
Closing Prayer:
Mother, Father, God, Universal Power, remind us daily of the sanctity of all life. Touch our hearts with the glorious oneness of all creation as we strive to respect all the living beings on this planet. Penetrate our souls with the beauty of this earth as we attune ourselves to the rhythm and flow of the seasons. Awaken our minds with the knowledge to achieve a world in harmony, and grant us the wisdom to realize that we can have Heaven on Earth.
Amen.
‘The sanctity of all life? Strive to respect all living beings??’ Except the 11 week old baby?
‘Mother Father God Universal Power??’ Not Alpha Omega but some kappa and gamma in there too?
We can have ‘heaven on earth’? Really. I had a Jehovah Witness knock on my door the other day, and that’s what they told me. hmm.
Wacked prayers from orders with nuns who ok abortions. I know the “order” as a whole isn’t responsible. But still. It’s
ok I’m ranting and that’s your dept Fr Z.
God Bless Us.
St Michael DEFEND US
St Michael PRAY FOR US
Given that the hospital has released a statement that it will not be changing its name to
reflect its loss of status as a Catholic institution, I wonder if it could be sued in the future
for deceptive advertising? I sincerely hope so.
The statement made by the diocese was surprising. It seems that the good Bishop has been
quietly trying for seven years to recall the hospital to its mission as a Catholic institution. It
looks as though the Bishop was the only party in all of that time who was operating in good
faith in those dealings, for the hospital never ceased offering sterilizations, contraception, and
abortion referrals.
15:31 GMT Yes 68% (1957), No 32% (903)
Yes 68% (1979)
No 32% (911)
@ 8:55 MST
I agree with Liz, there should have been an “absolutely” or “definitely” choice!
No faithful Catholic could vote no. To do so would be to join with the hospital’s administration in denying the authority of the bishop.
UPDATE: 22 Dec 1759 GMT:
Poll: Should St. Joseph’s Hospital lose its Catholic affiliation?
Yes 69% 2210
No 31% 995
Total Votes: 3205
4:05 pm Pacific time
@ 20:20 CST
yes 60%
No 35%
I voted twice!
joy in MO.
“Still continue to honor it’s Catholic heritage.”
Oh the nerve! Why can’t they see that they are disregarding just that?! May God bless and have mercy on us all.