Dust up in the Diocese of Davenport

This is a really interesting story.

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Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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81 Responses to Dust up in the Diocese of Davenport

  1. StevenDunn says:

    Ah, my fair diocese. After reading the original story I knew they’d find a way to screw it up.

  2. PhilipNeri says:

    Hmmmmm. . .Mr. Voris left out an important part of the agreement.

    From the diocesan website, “Under the agreement, Dr. Lee Morrison, Diocesan Superintendent of Schools will read a script prepared by the Eychaner Foundation, which was reviewed and approved by the Most Rev. Martin J. Amos, Bishop of Davenport.”

    The statement from the foundation was “reviewed and approved” by the bishop. Whether this bit of info lessens the scandal is certainly debatable, but Mr. Voris should’ve included it in his video. He left me with the distinct impression that the school official would be reading whatever the foundation had written.

    Fr. Philip Neri, OP

  3. Thank you Fr. Z. for listening to my humble request by E-mail. With the flip-flopping by the diocese on this (incl. the bishop), and especially in this time where we need the bishops to stand against the world and not be another “tool” for it, such an example could not go un-noticed.

  4. Mdepie says:

    He should have included this, but In my mind this is a distinction without much difference, the nature of the scandal is that the scholarship is given for proclaiming its ok or even good to engage in actions the Church teaches are mortal sins. So here is the question, if somewhere out there, some gay person is trying to live a chaste life because he is trying to listen to the teachings of the Church, isnt this unfair to him? Either the poor chaste gay person is a fool for denying his inclination’s or the school is promoting mortal sin by tolerating a scholarship for homosexual activity. Which is it?

  5. BillyHW says:

    Michael Voris is right. The only thing worse than having done nothing would be to do this. It’s really quite unbelievable. Sometimes I’m embarrassed by how stupid we Catholics can be sometimes.

  6. MaryW says:

    The path to hell is paved with good intentions.

  7. Tantum Ergo says:

    Michael Voris appears to be ENRAGED over this, and I don’t blame him. You can’t compromise or negotiate with the Devil, and that’s exactly what they’re trying to do. Just when you think you’ve tamed the snake, he turns around and bites you, injecting all the venom he can.

  8. According to a story in the Des Moines Register:

    Bishop Amos went on to say in a statement…. we disagree… But that shouldn’t prevent all of us from celebrating Keaton Fuller’s success.”

    …The script to be read on graduation day will say the scholarship “is granted to distinguished Iowa high school seniors who are openly lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender”

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120511/NEWS/120511020/?odyssey=nav|head

    So… the Bishop believes that being openly gay is an accomplishment that “all of us should celebrate?” That is, after all, the criteria for which the award is being given, and the statement, if reported accurately, will make that clear.

    This is a travesty.

    If all that has been reported is accurate, it would appear that the Bishop at least tried being a real father to his flock, but ultimately decided that weak-kneed and spineless was more his style. Unfortunately, among today’s shepherds, this isn’t exactly news, is it?

  9. Midwest St. Michael says:

    >>”So here is the question, if somewhere out there, some gay person is trying to live a chaste life because he is trying to listen to the teachings of the Church, isnt this unfair to him?”<<

    Yes – yes – yes.

    Thank you, Mdepie, for bringing this up.

    My Lord in heaven what are our *dear* brothers and sisters in Christ – who admittedly have the disorder (aka, cross) of same-sex attraction – supposed to take away from this diocesan decision?

    These souls who struggle with this cross – but are valiant in carrying it, and staying chaste – are absolutely villified by the SSA crowd who want their disorder deemed "normal" by the Church and, as we have seen in this sad episode, shove it in the face of the bride of Christ.

    Rarely, if ever, do we hear from the radical left about these true Christian soldiers who are villified by those who refuse to take up their cross daily and carry it. Instead they tout their disordered actions as "normal for me" and scandalize untold numbers of souls – either with homosexual inclinations or not – to the point that those scandalized may just throw in the towell and and act upon said inclinations.

    Mdepie raises an excellent point here.

    MSM

  10. frjim4321 says:

    I can see why his bishop doesn’t approve of his using the word “Catholic.”

    As previously mentioned Voris conveniently omitted the fact that the letter of presentation was previewed and approved by Bishop Amos.

    Voris urges parents to take their children out of Catholic schools. He clearly has no clue as to the quality of a Catholic education.

    Arrogance and bigotry are not compatible with Catholic thought.

  11. frjim4321 says:

    Further: This bishop is extremely well-beloved by his people. Perhaps that is because he knows how to be a good shepherd.

  12. PostCatholic says:

    It is not the purity of one’s beliefs that makes one a good person. Rather, it’s the purity of one’s behavior.

  13. Kathleen10 says:

    oh…wow….what did he say at the end? I think I may have blacked out a few times…..
    I’ve wanted to hear those kinds of words so often, I never expected to actually hear them.
    The only possible thing better would be IF A BISHOP SAID THEM!!
    I loved it, it just kept getting better, and better, and better, and better!
    My gosh, if this guy were in my local area, I would be at his church every week. He has perfectly analyzed this madness, and has verbally hit the target, right on the money. I hadn’t heard of this situation, but my GOD, what on EARTH is this Bishop thinking. This is more than a scandal, it’s horrific.
    I love my Catholic faith. Right now I’m feeling bitter and frustrated at our moral ineptitude overall. I’m sick of fighting the fight, and in my state, it feels like I’m alone. Day after day I am online giving reasons, rationales, so on and so forth. I’m making enemies like crazy. The spam in my email is huge, somebody’s sending it, and it’s all vulgar stuff, because I’m out there trying to help people comprehend how serious this is, and what is at stake. I so wish I could obtain some help, encouragement, and solace from my own church! Sunday’s sermon, after President Obama sold out our entire nation with his “evolving opinion”….nothing, not a word. Did anybody hear a word or two on the collapse of our civilization? Any pastor out there concerned about it, or notice that big, sucking sound? Or was it, Mother’s day as usual.

    I guess we can always look forward to celebrating “Futher’s Day” in the future.

    Fr. Z., in my humble opinion, that video is exactly the type of thing any Bishop should be saying. Why can’t we have that kind of analysis, force, and strength of opinion? Why are we so milquetoast, so equivocating, so horribly namby-pamby? I don’t believe Jesus was a sissy. He was a MAN, full of vigor and the knowledge of the truth that He was presenting. What has happened to MEN? Bishops are men, why can’t they talk like a real man? Why can’t they speak with authority, and certainty, and determination? Must WE be weak and limp-wristed all the time? I hate it when I feel more manly than the leaders of my beloved church! I don’t want to leave my faith! Speak up, you Bishops! Close these “Catholic” schools that are Catholic in name only. Start taking names and kicking a–!

  14. robtbrown says:

    frjim4321 says:

    I can see why his bishop doesn’t approve of his using the word “Catholic.”

    No, it wasn’t his bishop.

    One question for you: What do you think of the Christian tradition that considers homosexuality to be a sin crying to heaven for vengeance?

  15. robtbrown says:

    PostCatholic says:

    It is not the purity of one’s beliefs that makes one a good person. Rather, it’s the purity of one’s behavior.

    Don’t you think that behavior follows from beliefs?

  16. ray from mn says:

    I get very upset by Catholics using the word “gay” to refer to homosexuals. In addition to the many things that homosexual activities engage in that are wrong and offensive, their perversion of the language must rank near the top.

    “Pride” is another word that they have perverted. It is revealing that a group of people plagued with shortened life spans due to sexually transmitted diseases continually attempts to celebrate their “pride.” It must be their attempt to mask the true state of their mental condition.

    It’s interesting that my 1964 edition of Roget’s Thesaurus, a time before political correctness taking over the language, in addition to about 90 synonyms for “homosexual”, the thesaurus refer us to another category class containing many more words, “Unnaturalness.”

  17. Kathleen10 says:

    If an American who died fifty years ago, or even twenty, could return for one day, and see what we all are discussing and experiencing, would they even believe it? Would anyone have believed we would not only have this increasingly pressurized and very divisive cultural battle over same-sex marriage, but that we would find our clergy (Bishops) have nothing much to say about it? If it has come to that, then we are in alot more trouble than even I suspected, and I am a realist, who has seen this coming from a long way out.
    If that’s the case, then the Evangelicals are our only hope. It is down to them.
    I hope I’m wrong. Forgive me my personal tirade, everybody, please. This issue is so critical…Our children…I can’t stand to think of them influenced by these people who would poison their minds…I just had a sweet nephew go through his First Holy Communion…it’s unbearable….and yet people are asleep….
    ok, I’m done.

  18. oldcanon2257 says:

    frjim4321 says:

    Further: This bishop is extremely well-beloved by his people. Perhaps that is because he knows how to be a good shepherd.

    A good shepherd teaches his flock, for the sake of their soul, the Catholic truth they NEED to hear (e.g. CCC 2357 “Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”), and not what they want to hear and certainly not what the world wants them to hear.

    This bishop compromised.

    Where would we be today if Saint Athanasius – Bishop of Alexandria – had compromised with the Arians instead of resisting them to their face?

  19. Centristian says:

    “My Lord in heaven what are our *dear* brothers and sisters in Christ – who admittedly have the disorder (aka, cross) of same-sex attraction – supposed to take away from this diocesan decision?”

    Nothing. Why would they take anything away from it? They suffer from same-sex attraction, not stupidity. If they have made the decision to deny, for the love of God and their own souls, the inclinations prompted by their sexual orientation, then it’s clear that they’ve travelled an atrociously rough and torturous road, and have made, at last, by the grace of God, a courageous decision in favor of sanctification over self-gratification.

    I would have to imagine that, if they could withstand the enormous pressures and overwhelming temptations of our ultra-liberal, hyper-sexually-charged modern culture, a minor scandal at some high school in Iowa that nobody’s ever heard of isn’t likely to vex them. A homosexual who is every bit as committed to his Catholic faith as the next devout Catholic isn’t going to become suddenly bewildered and have his faith shaken over something like this, is he?

    These homosexual men and women are amongst us in this remarkable Church of ours, heroically living a life of celibacy without the gift of celibacy and without much support because their love for Jesus Christ is stronger than their need to understand why such an absurdly bizarre and painful cross should have been handed to them. They don’t ask why, they just carry it, heroically, in silence, isolated, in a Church that can’t stop reminding them of how disordered they are.

    If we have to endlessly hammer home that what they would be if it were not for their faith is an abomination, can we at least refrain from supposing that they’re all a bunch of fools?

  20. ContraMundum says:

    @Centristian

    Well said, although by “living a life of celibacy without the gift of celibacy” I think you mean something like “living a life of chastity in spite of grave temptation”. There is a distinction between celibacy, chastity, and continence, even though all three may overlap at times.

  21. Tina in Ashburn says:

    Not sure I understand the remarks here taking umbrage with Voris over “a script prepared by the Eychaner Foundation, which was reviewed and approved by the Most Rev. Martin J. Amos, Bishop of Davenport”.
    “reviewed and approved” is NOT the same as “re-wrote”, “wrote”, or even “edited”. I get the impression that the Bishop looked at the prepared statement and agreed to it.
    Let’s wait and see what the statement actually says.

    Hey Louie, to be fair, “celebrating Keaton Fuller’s success” could mean celebrating the success of graduation?

    FrJim: “Voris urges parents to take their children out of Catholic schools. He clearly has no clue as to the quality of a Catholic education.” I’m pretty sure Voris was Catholic-school educated. And he is a graduate of Notre Dame. On top of that he has a degree [STB] in Theology from the Angelicum. Voris does not support BAD Catholic education, from which he suffered. I have so many friends who left the Church after having attended Catholic schools all their lives, but were never taught the Faith. That is what Voris is referring to, not the good [rare] education.

    As to the subject of the video, Voris is right to be enraged. What’s the deal with enabling the unchaste lifestyle?? He’s right, how is that caring for someone’s eternal salvation? And what a strange story – such an about-face. Its as if one set of individuals, faithful Catholics, created the first response and then another set of individuals created the crazy second response. Curious.

  22. frjim4321 says:

    …suffer from same-sex attraction…

    Not an expression used by anyone appropriately trained in the social/behavioral sciences to refer to homosexuality.

  23. StevenDunn says:

    After some consideration I’ve decided I was too hard on my diocese. The current bishop is a good and orthodox man(although I find frjim4321’s description of him as “extremely well-beloved” a bit of a stretch) that has done about as well as could be expected given the financial and catechetical problems present in the Diocese of Davenport. He needs prayers of support, rather than condemnation.

    An aside: I’m the MC at one of two Latin Masses held in the Diocese of Davenport and Bishop Amos has been nothing but supportive. As soon as SP was published he performed a diocesan census to find which parishes, if any, would be willing to support the Latin Mass. One Sunday our priest was ill and the Bishop personally came to fill in for him since no other priest was available. He isn’t trained to say the Latin Mass so we had a Novus Ordo that day, but it still shows a real generosity on his part to help his priests.

  24. ContraMundum says:

    @Kathleen10

    Look at what has happened with the Evangelicals and divorce. By and large, they appear to have fully accepted it. They didn’t at first, and some churches still don’t, but I have a former co-worker whom I knew well who was married to a divorced woman and served for several years as a “deacon” at a Southern Baptist church. If the Sola Scriptura cannot obey a simple, straight-forward Biblical instruction forbidding remarriage after divorce, they don’t have much better odds at holding a natural-law understanding of marriage — if, as seems likely, the current madness lasts for a generation or so.

  25. frjim4321 says:

    …nor, incidently, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

  26. ContraMundum says:

    @frjim4321

    Indeed you are correct. Many professions train people to be dishonest. The social/behavioral sciences are prominent among them, not least in their claims to the word “science”.

  27. ContraMundum says:

    I don’t believe you will find the Catechism of the Catholic Church using the expression, “suffered a stroke”, either. What conclusions do you draw from this telling omission?

  28. BaedaBenedictus says:

    Father Jim,

    Is “objectively disordered” or “strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil” too strong a language for you?

    People DO suffer from SSA, and they suffer even more when pastors commit gross negligence in the care of their souls by remaining silent or by encouraging them to engage in deadly practices. I hope for your sake, Father, that you are not one of those.

  29. Centristian says:

    ContraMundum:
    “Well said, although by “living a life of celibacy without the gift of celibacy” I think you mean something like “living a life of chastity in spite of grave temptation”.”

    No, not exactly. What I refer to is the “gift of celibacy” that priests and religious refer to when they comment on their contentment with their priestly or religious vocations. It doesn’t speak to chastity, per se, but to the grace to live independently of a spouse and a family for the sake of a higher calling.

    Homosexuals, unlike clergy or religious, are bound to celibacy without enjoying, at the same time, the consolation of that higher calling. They are bound to be celibate and in the world minus a vocation that celibacy nourishes. They haven’t got the gift of celibacy. They are not called to a celibate life, rather they are bound to one without a call. They may neither marry, nor accept ordination, nor join a religious community. They must simply live alone in the secular world, and put up with a Church that is focused on family (which they cannot ever know the joys of) and within which they are daily subjected to thundering condemnations of their disorder.

  30. Hi Tina,

    Hey Louie, to be fair, “celebrating Keaton Fuller’s success” could mean celebrating the success of graduation?

    It would be nice if there was a good spin we could put on it, and it’s charitable to look for a way, but I don’t see it. Bishop Amos is clearly singling out the matter of Fuller’s scholarship award which he earned for being out of the closet. There is no indication that celebrating the success of simply graduating just like everyone else in his class was ever at stake in this story.

  31. Imrahil says:

    They may no[t] join a religious community.

    Really?

  32. jflare says:

    For those of you who’re thinking that Voris has gone overboard:
    If you go to RealCatholic TV.com and view the message there, he included a link to news item that discusses what’s going on. There’s a “communication” from the Communications Director about the matter, as well as a copy of the text that the diocesan official will be reading.

    I think they’re going ahead with this because TECHNICALLY, they’re dealing with an award that addresses courage in the face of bullying. That’s not really how they worded the situation, but that’s what they mean, essentially. They’re doing they’re level best to refer back to an unfortunate death of Matt Shepard (I think that’s the man’s name), who was killed by dragging behind a pickup several years ago. Many with liberal leanings demanded that Congress IMMEDIATELY pass hate crime legislation to make acts against homosexuals..um..more criminal.

    Problem is, for my purposes, they’ve found a crafty excuse to push an agenda. If they REALLY wanted to address bullying, they could very easily arrange for such a thing in the normal course of the school year. They aren’t. They’re going to effectively make a public spectacle out of the fact that a young man has come out of the closet and seems to have little or no remorse about his conduct.
    Those at the Eychaner Foundation have found a way to make a subtle assault on Catholic faith.
    And the bishop doesn’t seem to want to want to admit this.

    I’ve already e-mailed the Diocese of Davenport, politely asking them to reconsider. I think this “compromise” will be anything but.

  33. …suffer from same-sex attraction…

    Not an expression used by anyone appropriately trained in the social/behavioral sciences to refer to homosexuality.

    If you mean to imply that homosexuality isn’t a disorder that brings great suffering, you’re incorrect, Fr. Jim.

    Google the name Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons – a renowned psychiatrist (and devout Catholic) who specializes in the treatment of same sex attraction (and also has many years of clinical experience treating priests.) He’s written extensively on the topic.

    You’ve hit on a central problem here. Homosexual persons are in fact suffering from the effects of their psychological disorder, while political correctness demands that we simply affirm them in their present condition and ignore their pain, or at most blame it on outside influences, like the pseudo-crisis of “bullying” or the meanies in the Church. God forbid we address the plain reality that depression, drug abuse and suicide runs much higher among these poor suffering souls.

    There’s nothing Christian about this approach.

  34. Cathy says:

    If the bishop reviewed and approved the statement from the foundation and will let it be read from a diocesan spokesman, why doesn’t he man up and read it himself instead of inflicting the abomination on someone else.

  35. Clinton R. says:

    frjim4321:”This bishop is extremely well-beloved by his people. Perhaps that is because he knows how to be a good shepherd.” Sorry, but a bishop’s job is not to be well loved by his people by approving their sins. Was Jesus well loved by His people when He was nailed to the Cross? No, because he called them out on their sinfulness, and they hated Him for it just as they did the prophets who God had sent to preach them righteousness. The bishop of Davenport is not shepherding his people. He is leading them astray. As Mr. Voris points out, the young man at the center of this is being let down and his soul jeopardized. Homosexuality is a grave and mortal sin. If we die in a state of mortal sin, we go to hell. It is simply not charitable to allow a person to continue in their sinful state. It is even worse when those in charge of souls not only stay silent, but encourage them in their perverse ways. How many more bishops will capitulate to the homosexual agenda? How many more souls will be lost? Don’t the bishops know they will be accountable to God for their actions/inactions? Do they care? The days of apostasy are here. May the Lord have mercy on us! +JMJ+

  36. Michelle F says:

    To address some things Centristian said:

    The Roman Catholic Church has not given a ‘thunderous condemnation’ of the homosexual disorder for decades, and probably not since the days of Pagan Rome. That is the reason we have “gay rights,” “gay marriage,” and the unnatural sexcapades of our priests today.

    Chastity, celibacy, and continence (self-restraint) are gifts from God; they are by definition graces.

    Homosexuals and heterosexuals are morally obligated to be chaste and continent. For the unmarried, which includes all homosexuals who are not validly married to a person of the opposite sex, they are morally obligated to be celibate.

    God does in fact give the grace (gift) of celibacy to homosexuals who truly desire to be celibate. If He did not, they could not be celibate. This may or may not be the same type of grace God gives to priests for celibacy when they are ordained, but that does not change the fact that God does give the grace of celibacy to homosexuals who want it.

    God also gives some unique consolations to homosexuals who truly desire to do His will. He also has things for them to do in the service of His Church, directly or indirectly. (Picking up the Bishops’ slack on “gay issues” is one task.)

    Homosexuals are free to marry, but they must marry a person of the opposite sex (as made by God, not someone who is surgically or hormonally altered). Homosexuals may enter some religious communities at the discretion of the community’s superior. Homosexuals were permitted to be ordained at the discretion of their bishop and/or seminary’s superior, but this was changed by Rome after the priestly sex scandals; homosexuals are no longer permitted to be ordained.

    Homosexuals may be forced to “simply live alone in the secular world,” but that is because the Church hasn’t lifted ONE finger to help them.

    Homosexuals CAN and DO know the joys of family. They may or may not have had a normal family when they were growing up, but they have a family in the family of God – you know, the Church, including the Saints. Proper catechesis on what is a family would make this crystal clear to heterosexuals as well as homosexuals.

    So life for homosexuals isn’t quite as depressing as Centristian paints it, although life would be much better if the Church would start teaching on the subject (which would include teaching on the Sacraments, the family, etc.).

  37. Melchisedech says:

    As a man discerning about applying to be a seminarian for this diocese, this story really tears me apart. To his credit, he is a step in the right direction from the last bishop in terms of orthodoxy. His Excellency has always been very loving towards me. In such a small diocese the bishop is often known fairly well by many of the faithful. He has been calling me by first name about as long as he’s been in the diocese. A truly warm and welcoming man! After hearing of the initial action by His Excellency, I was considering sending him a letter congratulating him on his deed. Now, I still have a great love and respect for the man and his office, but I can’t help but feel a little bit of shame about the situation. He seems that he doesn’t want to “rock the boat.”

    Please continue to pray for my dear bishop!

  38. Supertradmum says:

    Several points. I left Davenport Diocese, my home town diocese, as I could not work there as a real Catholic. And I worked there is several parishes in the past. The diocese has been liberal for a long, long time. The Bishop’s bargain is part of this idea that one must be all things to all people. Not so…an official from the Diocese will read the speech, which is horrible. What a scandal. I myself could not be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church and save souls in that Diocese. Here is a clue why….Look at this…http://supertradmum-etheldredasplace.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/why-obama-does-not-support-israel-jews.html

    Secondly, I praised the Bishop and his chancery office last week for standing up against the homosexual activist group, and standing up against the scholarship procedures. Of course, the corrupted laity, sadly some related to me, as I have a very large family with lots of cousins and second cousins and cousins trice-removed, objected to the brave, albeit short stand.
    http://supertradmum-etheldredasplace.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/diocese-comes-out-against-gay.html

    frjim4321, so what if the education is excellent, which it is to a point, if it is not Catholic…Catholicism died in the local, private schools in my brothers’ generation-they all went 12 years to Diocese of Davenport private schools, and they are all atheists, either practical or stated-not an accident. I was the last generation to get real Catholic teaching. Education which leads youth away from God is evil, even if the mathematics scores are in the ITBS 99 percentiles. So what? The damage these schools have done is witnessed in my own, primary family. The rot set in and I am not sure the diocese will ever get over the original Americanist heresy, implanted at its very roots. Check out the history.

    I am so ashamed and horrified, yet again, and again, and again.

  39. thickmick says:

    Please pray and fast for our most brave bishops. Lets have more faith/hope in God and less faith in ourselves to solve the problems of the Holy Mother Church.

  40. NoraLee9 says:

    I have posted our problems with Catherine’s Catholic schools in the past. I agree with everything Mr. Voris said. Be very careful when placing a beloved child in a Catholic school. They seem hell bent on taking children’s faith and crushing it.

  41. Supertradmum says:

    NoraLee9, I would rather see them all close than this. Same thing here in the diocese where I am living at the moment in England. Non-Catholic teachers teach things against the CC. Also, in Malta, where at one of the largest Catholic schools, a lesbian, opening teaching her lifestyle was ok, could not be fired when I was there. I hope that changed by now. I have argued with priests here and in three other countries that taking money from governments taints Catholic education and the two documents, the promise and the oath, cannot be forced on teachers in schools taking money from the State. Even priests do not understand or want to see the serious problems. We have created a monster. Abandon the systems, unless they belong to NAPCIS, or are SSPX schools. And, as an ex-teacher, I can say that I would hate to stand before God and have Him show me the souls in Hell because of bad teaching…the responsibility is great. And, in Davenport, as in others places, such as some schools in other Iowa dioceses, the teachers have compromised the Faith and the souls of their spiritual victims of abuse……………Matthew 10:28. We go on about physical abuse, what about spiritual abuse, which is FOREVER.

    And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.

  42. Supertradmum says:

    And, a reminder, my ex-diocese has the second largest financial settlement after Los Angeles for sex-abuse victims. We were bankrupted. Any connections? I think so. If there are doctrinal errors, there are moral errors, and which comes first is up for grabs.

  43. HeatherPA says:

    Just a general observation.
    I truly believe our dear Holy Father was prophetic and extremely wise in calling for a “Year of Faith” to commence this fall. With the pronouncements of so many issues resolution- the SSPX, “apparition” at Medjugorje-, the election in the U.S., the decision of the SCOTUS, the unjust laws in our land, and the growing persecution, the same-sex union debacles: he seems to know that Catholics need to step it up like never before. I pray for all Catholics to be united under his leadership and commit to fully embracing the wisdom and doctrine of our Mother Church.

  44. plemmen says:

    It appears that some are missing a central point. ALL unmarried persons, regardless of their sexual attraction, are to be chaste and continent. To be otherwise is to be in a state of mortal sin. “Living together”, baby mommas and baby mommas, gay lovers, etc notwithstanding, these are all sins and the type of sins that unconfessed condemn a soul to Hell. Look into your own lives, see how we, by not speaking out, by “enabling”, by supporting these family members and friends out of a misplaced and misinterpreted sense of love, sin ourselves. My wife and I have direct experience with true “tough love” and many are the nights there are tears on my wife’s pillow because of the behaviors we cannot endorse or accept from the children or grandchildren. We are the unpopular ones in the family and that’s okay. I would rather be unpopular and spend my time in purgatory than be the popular ones and be condemned to the fires of Gehenna. May God bless all parents.

  45. Joseph-Mary says:

    We of the laity would love to be able to trust our bishops, our spiritual fathers. But time after time after time we see we cannot.

    Personally I think that with the HHS mandate where it appears the bishops are united in opposing it….the very vast majority will capitualate. We have only to look at history and perhaps to an era where the faith may have been stronger–Henry’s England. How many bishops held strong in that whole country against him? ONE. And we know that one as St. John Fisher. How many of our bishops are saints? Time may well tell.

    Further disgrace showing at the moment that has been the case in El Paso and Washington and so forth. When it comes to the politicially correct issue of sodomy, they back down.

    And how many bishops have stood up to be counted for the unborn over these years? Most have been quiet although there is a fair number who have written, spoken, and ACTED in a manner to defend life.

    Dear bishops: please find your spine soon…

  46. Diane at Te Deum Laudamus says:

    Homosexuals may be forced to “simply live alone in the secular world,” but that is because the Church hasn’t lifted ONE finger to help them.

    The Church has Courage Apostolate for those with SSA who want to strive for chastity – something those without SSA who cannot find a spouse also must work hard at. I know many who went into their old age without a spouse and it was not for lack of trying to find one. Would we celebrate their cohabitation with someone of the opposite sex, and congratulate them for coming out on it?

    When I read this the other day, my jaw dropped at the fact that this school permitted the young man to go to the prom with another male. This alone not only legitimized the immorality of such a physical relationship for the boy, but for everyone who witnessed it.

    I seriously doubt this school has a chapter of Courage. Every Catholic school should be aware of it because it is Church approved. But it promotes chastity which doesn’t fit the politically correct, strange teachings, now visibly condoned by lending public support for “coming out”.

  47. taad says:

    When will there be concern for those with a confused sexual identity, homosexuality, and are living chaste? Does this diocese or those in the comments, ever consider that their comments and actions may help to weaken the resolve and cause more suffering to those who are living a chaste life? Does it not cause one to doubt, or come to the conclusion, that maybe it is not so bad if I act on this temptation? When officials make it appear that homosexuality is an okay thing, it can harm those who are following church teaching. Why is it we only worry about those who want to promote the sin, and not those who are fighting this temptation?

  48. Supertradmum says:

    Diane at Te Deum Laudamus, Courage? Are you kidding? I was working in a university in the Diocese of Davenport and started a Courage group, as I was on the “pastoral staff”. To be fair, it was under the previous bishop. However, I posted information on the group on my bulletin board, outside my office and advertised meetings. Overnight, someone took the entire board down (a double-board) and threw away all my stuff. Not only that, but the person, who I found out later was another member of the faculty staff, had put up ads for Rainbow, a pro-gay group at the university. I could not start a Courage group there at the supposed Catholic university. I fought long and hard in that diocese, and gave up, dusting the dust off my feet. And, I remind people, that the training for VIRTUS in that diocese did not condemn homosexuality when I had to take the classes; in fact, stating that the gay lifestyle had nothing to do with pedophilia and youth-abuse by priests. Nuff said….

  49. JARay says:

    It is quite clear to me that “frjim4321″ and “postcatholic” are a pair of trolls on these boards. [Indeed? I disagree. Provided they are civil and do not blaspheme, and do not annoy me too much (emphasis on “me”, since this is my blog) etc., they all welcome to post.]
    At least, “postcatholic”, is honest enough to admit the fact.
    Thank God for Michael Voris.
    Shame on the silly Bishop of Davenport who has no backbone and is afraid to be really Catholic. I really would not want to be in his shoes when he faces Jesus for judgement, and the same can be said for the trolls.

  50. PA mom says:

    “The year is 2018 and the diocese is struggling with how to properly present Planned Parenthood’s award “In celebration of the first receiver of the blessing of abortion.” Should the presentation be done by a member of the office staff, the doctor himself or the staff of the diocese has not yet been decided, but we are all just so proud of her for this accomplishment…”

    Similarly, this award has no business being awarded at a high school graduation, by anyone. Has everyone forgotten the actual purpose of schooling?

  51. oldCatholigirl says:

    Michele F: you said pretty much what I wanted to say, but got there first. Thanks.
    Personally, I grieve for anyone trying to live a chaste life in today’s sexually overcharged culture , especially young people, especially those with homosexual tendencies, especially priests, especially…. Yet, it would not go down well to take the “I feel so sorry for you” approach, even though I do feel sorry. And how are some of these highly personal issues to be addressed from the pulpit without exposing children to ideas they’re not ready to consider? I think some sort of an holistic approach would be good: the nature of real love & sexuality’s place in it, thereby exposing counterfeit love. Or go back further: all human beings are disordered/ have disorders–not just the ones getting more publicity. No one should look down on anyone else-nor feel sorry for themselves. God is offering us all the graces we all sorely need: to do what we must do and to repent of whatever we need to. People with homosexual attractions, if these are indeed permanent, are indeed called to celibate chaste lives. And God bless them–with all the mixed messages nowadays–it’s a tough row to hoe. And He does bless them. They are called to lives of self-giving love, as we all are–just not “luv” as Father Z sometimes puts it.

  52. paladin says:

    “Fr. Jim”,

    I’ll defer to Fr. Z. and others on the board who can determine whether you’re in earnest (and/or truly a priest), or whether you’re simply a troll; but I’d gently remind you that there are really only three expected and ultimate outcomes to any embrace of moral relativism (such as you’ve done):

    1) solipsism
    2) insanity (though #1 can arguably be included in that)
    3) repentance from moral relativism

    A word to the wise, friend. I’ll be praying that #3 happens to you, and sooner rather than later.

  53. chantgirl says:

    I was teaching my children about the four marks of the Church the other day, and I am tempted to add a fifth mark- absolute resiliency in the face of heresy, cowardice, mismanagement, scandal and utter stupidity. Only Christ’ promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail could have kept this ship from sinking so many times. While it’s a little embarrassing to admit that somehow the Holy Spirit protects the Church in the midst of our complete ineptitude, I’ll take it as a boost to my faith. I am one of those parents who took my children out of Catholic school to homeschool. Catholic schools in my area are cost prohibitive for couples who embrace having a large family, and I wanted them to have a more “Catholic” schooling experience than I had had in my Catholic schooling. I just looked around at my large, “catholic” family, and realized how few of us are even practicing or believe anymore, and I felt a twinge of terror for the souls of my children and for the responsibility I had before God for the care of their souls. Then I knew I really had to do something even if it meant full descent into the outsiders’ club. In my family, having a lot of children was fringe enough, but homeschooling put me into a whole new class of weird. Then I read a story like this, and I am affirmed in my decision to homeschool. Oh, and SuperTradMum, you seem to have made the rounds to all of the bastions of Catholic dissent over the years. I’d like to see the stickers on your suitcase!

  54. PostCatholic says:

    Do I think behavior follows from beliefs? Well, it depends what beliefs we’re talking about. I think quite a lot of people can recite and express their assent to syncopes, formulas and creeds without actually living them with integrity.At base, such people’s main beliefs are in privilege and personal exceptionalism. I think Voris has a lot of catching up to do.

  55. PostCatholic says:

    Thanks for the welcome, Rev. Zuhlsdorf. I’m glad you’re willing to have some sort of salon. I can’t promise you I’ll recognize my own blasphemy, though I can promise it’s not my intention to be provocative for the mere sake of it, which is what I think of as “trolling.”

    I’m not sure what I said that upset you, JARay, but I do apologize.

  56. chantgirl says:

    Oh, and I’ll add puppet shows, polyester vestments, and really clunky church websites to my list, although the first two seem to be disappearing, thank God!

  57. Centristian says:

    MichelleF:

    “God does in fact give the grace (gift) of celibacy to homosexuals who truly desire to be celibate. If He did not, they could not be celibate. This may or may not be the same type of grace God gives to priests for celibacy when they are ordained, but that does not change the fact that God does give the grace of celibacy to homosexuals who want it.”

    Michelle, homosexuals do not have a vocation to celibacy; they suffer from a disorder that forces them–those of them who desire to be faithful Christians, that is–to endure celibacy. Not just chastity, mind you, but celibacy. That means no flirting, no dating, no courting, no love letters, no romance, no romantic dinners, no walking hand-in-hand with a sweetheart, no pet names, no tender caresses, no kisses…no nothing. Just priestly or monastic celibacy, without the consolation of priesthood or a monastic vocation to go with it.

    Priests and religious CHOOSE celibacy in response to a vocation. Homosexuals, on the other hand, have not chosen celibacy; they have no choice. Celibacy has been imposed upon them, whether they have desired or assented to it or not. For those who also find themselves excluded from priestly and religious vocation (and for those who would not perceive any such vocation for themselves in any event) celibacy is a gift the way a brain tumor is a gift.

    “God also gives some unique consolations to homosexuals who truly desire to do His will.”

    Well, I suppose not ever having to endure a nagging, dim-witted wife who loudly bewails things she knows nothing about or not having to ever support annoying and ungrateful children could be considered consolations.

    “He also has things for them to do in the service of His Church, directly or indirectly. (Picking up the Bishops’ slack on “gay issues” is one task.)”

    Ah, well, that makes up for the prohibition against being in love. They can do things for the Church about gay issues. Spectacular. There’s a rich and rewarding life that anyone would envy.

    “Homosexuals are free to marry, but they must marry a person of the opposite sex (as made by God, not someone who is surgically or hormonally altered).”

    Oh, awesome! They’re free to marry persons whom they’re incapable of being attracted to and incapable of falling in love with! What have they got to complain about, then? They’re free to unhappily marry and become one half of a joyless baby factory. Never mind everything I said. I would ask, though…how long would it take, do you think, for a diocesan tribunal to annul a marriage in which one of the spouses is homosexual? Would it be a matter of seconds or nanoseconds?

    “Homosexuals may enter some religious communities at the discretion of the community’s superior.”

    Not if certain Catholics had their way, they wouldn’t. And what about the rest, who don’t have a vocation, in any case? What about homosexuals who have no interest in shutting themselves away in a monastery because the haven’t got the calling?

    “So life for homosexuals isn’t quite as depressing as Centristian paints it, although life would be much better if the Church would start teaching on the subject (which would include teaching on the Sacraments, the family, etc.).”

    I don’t say depressing, I say hugely, hugely challenging. And because these men and women are enduring gigantic crosses that most Catholics couldn’t lift much less carry, they deserve more credit than to imagine that their faith will be shaken over this sort of thing. In light of what they have been enduring, this is a gnat on a windshield.

  58. Kathleen10 says:

    What consolation, to read the comments on this blog. Thank you Fr. Z., for the forum. It is comforting and edifying to simply not be alone in this. We do have each other. I’m very grateful for the blessing, and I ask God to bless all here.

    I think I mentioned this before, maybe. But there is a website called “MassResistance”. It is a group in Massachusetts that has had to deal with the fallout from the legalization of marriage in that state. On the site is a link on the right, titled something like “What Happens in a State Where Same-Sex Marriage is Legalized?”. Something like that. It is very informative reading, because it’s not theory in Massachusetts, it’s reality. The effects have been horrible. School staff, teachers, librarians, superintendents, are openly promoting the gay lifestyle to students, to the elementary level. Graphic books are available. If a parent complains, they are told they are being “inappropriate”. (!)

    What’s so good about this material is, it’s not conjecture, you can use facts in discussions instead of guessing about effects. There are ways to debate this topic that don’t always include taking homosexuality apart, which is dangerous ground in many situations. Necessary, but prudence needs to decide that time. It is to “re-define marriage” and why that is not a good idea for civilization, that hits the mark, and sidesteps the hot button words that get people revved up. We can better stand our ground on why redefining marriage is terrible for children, terrible for society, terrible for civilization. A social experiment, and why should we do it? Well, we shouldn’t.
    There was a FANTASTIC lecture on EWTN awhile back. I’ll have to look it up again. I know it was at a Catholic University, and I think it was at Aquinas? I remember it was a female speaker, doctor somebody. What an intelligent, user-friendly, and reasoned lecture she gave. Great points on same-sex marriage and exactly how it affected children. Touched on points such as: children who live in homes with one parent who is not biologically related are many times more likely to be either abused or neglected (she gave the statistics). Or, how domestic violence is part and parcel of same-sex relationships (she gave the statistics).
    We need to be informed, educated, ready, and perhaps most of all, cool. Without insulting people or hitting those hot emotional words (and NEVER falling for the bid on emotions) we can debate the topic. I have selected one newspaper online, and I regularly hit columns that talk about this issue or similar issues.
    Just as we have St. Francis, the saint of great love, we have St. Paul, the saint of no holds barred truth, even if you don’t like it. Love is more than tenderness. When the lion comes, love is a fight to the finish.

  59. Timothy Mulligan says:

    frjim4321 says:

    …suffer from same-sex attraction…

    Not an expression used by anyone appropriately trained in the social/behavioral sciences to refer to homosexuality.

    I was genuinely shocked by this comment. I am quite familiar with same sex attraction. What are you saying, Fr. Jim? Do you object to the term “same sex attraction”? Do you deny that it causes suffering? You see, it does cause suffering for those who have it and who strive to obey the teaching of the Church, which is revealed by Our Lord. We call this suffering “the Cross.” Your comment makes it seem as though you are siding with the wisdom of the world. And like this “beloved” bishop, you are not helping us.

    Not at all.

    God help you.

  60. robtbrown says:

    PostCatholic says:

    Do I think behavior follows from beliefs? Well, it depends what beliefs we’re talking about. I think quite a lot of people can recite and express their assent to syncopes, formulas and creeds without actually living them with integrity.

    That might be true, but it merely is an example that man is flawed.

    At base, such people’s main beliefs are in privilege and personal exceptionalism. I think Voris has a lot of catching up to do.

    Just from the little I’ve seen of Voris, his beliefs are simply that of the Catholic Church. He hasn’t modified them because of his own obsession with himself.

  61. Supertradmum says:

    By the way, us heterosexuals who are not married have to be chaste as well. This is the normal call for all single Catholics. Those who have temptations to same sex partners experience a disorder, but we all have to be chaste, act chastely, etc. No one is exempt. And, even in marriage, there are times for abstinence.

    I think this idea needs to be preached from the pulpit more, as well as the abnormality of same sex attraction. We have an over-sexualized society. And, obviously, this school in Clinton has fallen into the trap of the social acceptance of sin.

  62. Bob B. says:

    This reminds me of my mother telling me when I was young that if you lie, every successive time it becomes easier. The bishop was right to begin with, he then caved to some sort of pressure or political correctness in letting this occur.
    There are some issues that the bishops have done or ignored that seem in direct contravention to what the Church teaches and what is common sense.
    1. Letting homosexual students attend Catholic schools. Luckily we don’t live north of the border or in Europe where the state subsidizes Catholic schools and, in many countries, are mandating teaching that homosexuality is normal. The school and the bishop should prevent the attendance of these students – in this particular case, the student attended a dance with his boyfriend, obviously flaunting his homosexuality. This should have caused scandal among the parents and teachers, though some had written letters of recommendation for his homosexual award.
    2. Same sex parents should also be enough to prevent their “children” from attending Catholic schools. Though the children have nothing to do with the parents’ proclivities, allowing their attendance gives sanction to their homosexuality and causes scandal. One parish priest in the Boston area had the same thought, but was overruled by the cardinal. Something similar occurred in Southern California a few years ago, as well.
    3. Teachers and principals who do not agree with Church teachings should be replaced. Though Michael Voris says to take your children out of Catholic schools, there are some that are fine institutions. The problem is partially with the background and beliefs of these educators.
    Many who have come from Jesuit universities seem to practice far more “tolerance” when it comes to homosexuals, as many support the secularist point of view. Many are not aware of even the basic tenets of Catholicism. There is at least one diocese where graduating from the local Jesuit university almost ensures your rise into principalship.
    Remember the recent incident involving Father Marcel Guarnizo and the gay woman at her mother’s funeral. This woman had once worked for a Catholic high school where the principal hired her knowing about her homosexuality.
    Many teachers and principals openly state that the Church should have female clergy and some support same-sex marriages. Openly disagreeing with a principal about these subjects tends for one to be labeled “not a team player” and shortens one’s employment. Unfortunately, the clergy is often of no assistance.
    4. Teach what the Church says about homosexuality by middle school. The kids have seen things on television, heard about it and their opinions are being formed about many things, but few teachers are willing to teach what the Church says and why. This could be, in part, because some teachers don’t agree with Catholic teachings, though some don’t know exactly what the teachings are themselves.

    The years of ignoring what is or isn’t being taught to our Catholic children are finally catching up to the Church. Senior clergy don’t know how to “teach the Church,” having been raised themselves in an era of change for change sake and touchy-feely Catholicism. The Peter Principle also reigns in many dioceses, it appears, as well. Finally, one wonders how plagued many of the chanceries are with homosexuals who ignore or inhibit Church teachings on this subject.

  63. JohnE says:

    Cowardly, capitulating, compromising, careless, confusing, confounding, craven, complicit. But not Catholic.

  64. chantgirl says:

    FrJim, I think that using the term same-sex attraction is much more accurate than calling someone gay, as no one is defined solely by to whom they are attracted . People are people first. Sexual attraction is only one aspect of a person, and certainly not the most important. We don’t call people cripples anymore, and we certainly shouldn’t call people gays. I would think that people with SSA would feel much more isolated and ostracized if we constantly refer to them as gays, as though they themselves are defective instead of being people who suffer from a disordered attraction. Branding people gays leads to them being set apart as misfits instead of incorporated into a loving community of Catholics who should help them carry their crosses, and offer them true friendship.

  65. robtbrown says:

    frjim4321 says:

    …suffer from same-sex attraction…

    Not an expression used by anyone appropriately trained in the social/behavioral sciences to refer to homosexuality.

    Actually, that’s incorrect. Although clinical psychologists tend to refrain from moral judgments about behavior, they are usually more than willing admit that a patient is suffering from an uncontrollable inclination, including homosexuality.

    NB: Don’t confuse clinical psychology with counseling psychology, that latter being little else adjustment counseling.

    …nor, incidently, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

    The catechism says that the homosexual inclination is objectively disordered. Anyone with an objectively disordered inclination is suffering from it unless he is in denial.

  66. robtbrown says:

    Also: Carl Jung wrote c.75 years ago that homosexuality would become more prevalent. I won’t go into his psychoanalytic explanation for the increase but just say that industrialism then and technology now have produced more of a unisex culture.

  67. Joseph-Mary says:

    I have some single Catholic friends who also suffer and know some lonliness because they have not found a spouse. It can be a cross for sure.

    I took my child out of Catholic school due to an abusive teacher—thankfully my children have remained Catholic now into their young adult years and I do not know of any of those earlier friends at the Catholic school who still practice their faith. When there are dissenters on staff who say buddhist is the same as Catholicism and so forth, the children do not have the filters to disregard the lie.

  68. Supertradmum says:

    Bob B. “Finally, one wonders how plagued many of the chanceries are with homosexuals who ignore or inhibit Church teachings on this subject.” Yes and no– it starts in the seminaries, which are still accepting young men who are homosexuals. The chanceries, indeed, are plagued with non-believing Catholics, and even hire non-Catholics, but the real problems are the priestly formation, and the priests themselves. Who hires chancery people? A Bishop. Who chooses young men for seminaries? A Bishop. And one thing which has never been addressed in the Davenport Diocese is the connection between homosexuality and the huge sexual abuse scandal, to which I referred above. Just as in the USCCB meetings in 2002, which I watched on television, when this all broke out, homosexuality cannot be discussed.

    And, I know for a fact, that two of the seminaries which have students from this problem diocese still accept homosexual young men today, in 2012. This is in contradiction to the guidelines from Rome. Why do you think there was a turn-around? Bad catechesis of the laity, and bad seminary training for the priests, including a false idea of tolerance led to this decision, in part. This newest episode just represents the real face of Catholicism in the Diocese of Davenport.

  69. Mariana says:

    Kathleen10 says:

    …Our children…I can’t stand to think of them influenced by these people who would poison their minds…I just had a sweet nephew go through his First Holy Communion…it’s unbearable….and yet people are asleep….”

    It IS unbearable. My son is 14, the things he might learn without my knowing and being able to explain…horrible.

  70. ContraMundum says:

    Do I think behavior follows from beliefs? Well, it depends what beliefs we’re talking about. I think quite a lot of people can recite and express their assent to syncopes, formulas and creeds without actually living them with integrity.

    There are two possible reasons for this. One is that just because something has been memorized does not mean it is really believed. I have learned that Athena sprang fully-armed from the forehead of Zeus, for example, yet I entertain grave doubts about the veracity of this tale.

    The other reason is weakness. To use a less emotionally charged example, when I went up into the towers of the Cathedral of Notre Dame in Paris, I got a major double-whammy of two phobias that normally cause me no trouble whatsoever: a fear of heights, and a fear that old buildings are on the verge of collapse (some gargoyles that appeared to have broken loose and lay around the foot of the church didn’t help). I knew — intellectually — that a cathedral that has stood for 650 years is not likely to suddenly collapse in the half hour I am on the towers, and also that engineers would inspect the cathedral, probably every 1 to 5 years. After a few minutes of reassuring myself of these facts and trying to enjoy the fantastic view, I realized it was hopeless. I needed to get back to the ground.

    In that case, of course, there was no question of sin or grace. I think that the kind of weakness which ruined that experience for me, though, is similar to the weakness that sometimes prevents us from doing what we know to be right.

  71. jacobianflaherty says:

    I am still shaking. I just called three individuals – the secretary to the Bishop of Davenport, the superintendent of Catholic Schools there, and the secretary to the principal at the school (I tried to get to the principal, but they are screening all calls ferociously.)

    The secretary to the Bishop is a kindly woman who just seems confused. She said, “Well, either way people would have been hurt.” I replied, “Well, then let’s give them the truth and work to save their souls.”

    The superintendant seems like he wants to be ignorant of the wrongness of this but can’t be – “why is this objectionable?” I asked him: “This young man may be a nice kid and a good student; wouldn’t that accurately describe more than half of your graduates?” He said yes. I continued: “Well, then why is this kid getting the scholarship and nobody else? It’s because he describes himself as gay.” “Yes, I guess that’s true” he continued. “So we’re going to have a Catholic diocese representative in effect give this kid an award because he is actively living in mortal sin?” He sort of shut down after that.

    In talking to the school secretary I got yelled at and hung up on after she shouted something at me.

    People: CALL, CALL, CALL the diocese. In light of President Obama’s ‘evolution’ on gay marriage, this is very intentionally a dagger into the heart of the Church. I am sick and tired and am going on to charitably call Cardinal George of Chicago and Archbishop Ninestedt and the other local Bishops; it’s time for a little fraternal correction amongst the Bishops – Paul did it to Peter, right?

  72. Supertradmum says:

    jacobianflaherty, Good for you. But, have realistic expectations. There has been a laissez faire stance on homosexuality in Chicago. However, I am all for writing and phoning, and doing the best we can. Bishop Jenky and Bishop Morlino are close by. They have a good record for standing up to the Truth.

  73. Mom2301 says:

    This is disheartening but no surprise. As StevenDunn and Supertradmum have noted Davenport is known to be a liberal diocese as is their neighboring Dubuque Diocese (my own diocese). I personally know Superintendant Morrison and he is a good and decent man. I am sure Bishop Amos is likewise good and decent. The problem is that somewhere along the way we started equating good and decent with quiet and submissive to cultural pressure. No one wants to start a fight, but everyone should be willing to defend their values. Unfortunately this whole episode just makes me feel even more depressed about the state of the Church in Iowa and as a whole. Pray, especially for the bishops and priests.

  74. StJude says:

    What struck me in that video.. is the ‘What about their souls’ line.
    Hundreds of people seeing and hearing that.. .wow.

    Lord, please watch over and protect those young people who will hear and see that.

  75. Even if the Bishop has approved the statement, still on the surface, compromise was made. Now we don’t know what this statement is going to say. It could very well just be a statement celebrating the academic accomplishments of said person without any references to sodomy. (I can hope, doubt it). Hopefully someone will keep track of this story and what was actually said.

  76. jacobianflaherty says:

    Joe of St Therese, Why did this boy receive this scholarship. Here are some of the criteria, no doubt:

    A. He is nice.
    B. He is generous.
    C. He is a good student.

    Hmmm… Wouldn’t this describe more than 3/4 of the class? So what is it that makes him more worthy of it that others? Because he describes himself as “openly gay. So whether you say it or not, you are going to give a student an award based on his embracing a lifestyle that is mortally sinful! This is an outrage! I have now written Cardinal Dolan and spoken with his secretary. Time to get to work, people. Souls hang in the balance!

  77. Cantor says:

    Why is the Church permitting itself to be the bad guy yet again?

    It seems that the problem of this particular situation was the organization’s refusal to give a $40,000 scholarship to a good student without having access to the bully pulpit of a graduation. Even if we were the boy’s confessors we would have nothing to say about his actions at all.

    The diocese could far better have issued a statement saying it was a shame that the group would not help a deserving boy further his education without untenable strings attached. They are more than welcome to do so at their own ceremony, but not at one sponsored by the Roman Catholic Church.

    How much will Planned Parenthood offer next year to the schoolgirl with the courage to step forth?

  78. pfreddys says:

    I searched and searched and could not find an email address for this bishop. If I were able to write to him I would have pointed out to him that he will be called to account for all the souls that he let be led astray by his tacit approval of the homosexual lifestyle, indeed the very souls he let down would call for his damnation. [?!?] I would also point out that it would have been better had he left the situation alone for his craven compromise is far more hideous than the original agenda. Finally, I would ask that he conduct himself as if he were in the Apostolic Line of St. Paul and not in the apostolic line of judas. [Judas, huh? A point for your consideration: Have left Mass and then, soon after, committed a sin?]

  79. Michelle F says:

    Centristian:

    I wasn’t talking about homosexuals having a vocation to celibacy. That’s why I distinguished the grace for celibacy given to them from that given to priests.

    I stand by my original assertion that God gives celibate homosexuals special graces to make up for the “no flirting, no dating”, etc. that you mention. There is more to life than flirting, dating, and romance.

    Celibacy IS NOT “a gift in the way a brain tumor is a gift!” Celibacy frees people from all of the needless drama of romantic relationships – whether that is a dating relationship or a married relationship. Celibacy, when embraced willingly for any reason, is joyful!

    You belittle serving the Church for what you call “the prohibition against being in love.”

    The way you sneer at serving the Church is startling to say the least. I mentioned picking up the slack on how the Bishops don’t address “gay issues” as only ONE example of something constructive that homosexuals are in a unique position to do for the Church. There are, of course, many other things, from crisis counseling to working in a soup kitchen to teaching Catechetical classes (including RCIA).

    Who says that homosexuals are “incapable” of being attracted to a person of the opposite sex? Some are incapable, yes, but not all.

    No homosexual should get married simply for the sake of trying to “cure” his or her condition. Doing so WOULD make the marriage invalid. Homosexuals are, however, capable of contracting a valid marriage under the usual proper conditions.

    As for your response to what I said about homosexuals being able to enter SOME religious communities, are you one of those Catholics who would say “No?” As for the homosexuals who have no interest in joining a religious community, I suppose they would do the same thing some unmarried heterosexuals do: stay happily UNmarried.

    I didn’t say that you SAID the life of a homosexual who is a faithful Catholic is depressing, but that you presented such as life AS depressing. In fact, your picture of it is almost suicidally depressing. If you were trying to evangelize a homosexual by telling him or her some of the things you’ve said here (prohibited to be in love, serving the Church is a poor and unrewarding life, etc.) he or she would not convert, and may never give God or the Church another thought – beyond “they hate me” that is.

    Diane at Te Deum Laudamus:

    Yes, I have heard of Courage. It is a 12-Step program. I know about 12-Step programs from having been in Alcoholics Anonymous before I joined the Catholic Church. AA’s 12-Step program did nothing for me, and now that I’m Catholic I have some theological problems with how they encourage people to see themselves as helpless victims, among other things.

    I think the Church and homosexuals would be better served with a program that teaches the efficacy of Confession, Communion, and devotion to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament for overcoming same-sex attractions, particularly for obtaining the grace of celibacy (which makes one happy instead of unhappy, as Centristian seems to think). In fact, I think those three things are not only efficacious, but sufficient.

    oldCatholigirl:

    Thank you, too.

  80. Johnno says:

    frjim4321

    A quote from heaven to remember:

    “As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by my Son. Each day, recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and the priests. The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, and bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their Confreres. The Church and altars will be vandalized. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.

    “The demon will rage especially against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will no longer be pardon for them.” – Our Lady of Akita

    “Voris urges parents to take their children out of Catholic schools. He clearly has no clue as to the quality of a Catholic education.”

    – Given most of the things you’re known to say and support, I’m pretty sure he knows quite well what good quality Catholic education ought to be.

    “Not an expression used by anyone appropriately trained in the social/behavioral sciences to refer to homosexuality.”

    – While many tend to enjoy their sinful inclinations, there is usually a loss or lack of something motivating such behaviors. Not to mention the obvious social pressures and personal shame they carry. One ought to be more considerate, but this does not mean we should justify that which is wrong and encourage them to continue in the wrong directions.

    PostCatholic says:

    “It is not the purity of one’s beliefs that makes one a good person. Rather, it’s the purity of one’s behavior.”

    – Beliefs tend to inform behavior.

    “Do I think behavior follows from beliefs? Well, it depends what beliefs we’re talking about. I think quite a lot of people can recite and express their assent to syncopes, formulas and creeds without actually living them with integrity.At base, such people’s main beliefs are in privilege and personal exceptionalism.”

    – Someone simply reciting creeds from rote without actually subscribing to them in honesty is not ‘belief’, it’s hypocrisy. Failing to live up to your beliefs is another thing altogether, though given that Christians acknowledge that we are sinful and imperfect and prone to sin, this is still consistent with our beliefs. We do not however, pretend otherwise that the wrong which we do should suddenly be considered good instead for the sake of convenience.

    “I think Voris has a lot of catching up to do.”

    -Such as?

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