Ass. of Catholic Priests formed to push passé liberal agenda

The National Schismatic Reporter has an online piece about a new group for ultra-liberal priests called the Association of U.S. Catholic Priests. The group is comprised of self-described “Vatican II priests”. In 2012, 240 people showed up for a meeting and they have, it is reported, some 950 members.  I wonder if that included reps from the LCWR.

I am guessing that most of the members are over 65.

What are they up to?  They want to “build bridges” and “hold hands with the laity and at the same time with the bishops”

I looked at their resolutions HERE. They include such old liberal favs as:

  • promotion of the ordination of women to diaconate and priesthood
  • election of bishops by lay people
  • support for labor unions (I assume that means SEIU, the NEA, and anything that Geore Soros might back)
  • restoration of general absolution where it has been ended
  • obtain permission from Pope Francis to use the obsolete 1973 translation for Mass
  • try to end the annual collection for the Archdiocese for Military Services
  • promotion of Cardinal Bernardin’s Common Ground Initiative

The rest of their proposals for the Ass. of Catholic Priests group are pretty much blah blah about collegiality and consensus and running down anything they don’t like in Lumen gentium 18-25.

Nothing much will come of this, of course. The Biological Solution will take care of most of the members in near future. Still, it is interesting to see how dying embers can be fanned up into a little flame of hope for a ’70’s liberal agenda.

I am tempted to get a whole bunch of like-minded priests together to join the group and then hijack their meeting.  Heh heh.

You can bet that the NSR (the newspaper of record for heresy and schism) will have people at that meeting so we can read all about how wonderful and forward-looking they were.

UPDATE:

I direct the readership’s attention to a blog post by one of our frequent contributors here, Fr. Martin Fox, over at Bonfire of the Vanities.

He asks:

Is there a single word for what I’m describing? Something that is sad, ironic, and yet curiously funny, all at the same time?

You might go over there and read his comments and answer his question.

Fr. Fox pretty much blasts them to tiny shreds.

Gelastic?  Quizzical?  Risible?

UPDATE

Quite a while back, I happily posted a link to the Archdiocese for Military Services on the side bar of this blog to send donations.  I hope you will use it.

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66 Responses to Ass. of Catholic Priests formed to push passé liberal agenda

  1. VexillaRegis says:

    This sounds like something from The Eye of the Tiber ;-)

  2. The Sicilian Woman says:

    A.U.S.C.P.: Association of uniformly schismatic catholic priests. (Small “c” catholic.)

  3. disco says:

    Vatican II priests? Can’t be obtained for a book but how about a council? Or the poor interpretation of one?

  4. Supertradmum says:

    Pray for their souls.

  5. pannw says:

    Yes, I will pray for their souls, but first, I must stop laughing at Father Z’s use of abbreviation in the title to this.

  6. frjim4321 says:

    The members aren’t lunatics, in fact here they are some of the more solid and hard-working guys.

    I’m on the mailing list but so far can’t attend since they have the audacity to keep meeting on my day off, and I guess that’s their final decision.

  7. Father Jim:

    Who says these guys are “lunatics”? That’s a straw man.

    The head of the group says he wants to reach out to priests and support them. Well, you know, wrapping oneself in the mantle of all that is true and good, and contrasting other priests to oneself, isn’t a very winning strategy.

    If it weren’t for the fact that this mindset is dying out (the average age of members is “about 70″), I would be more angry.

    It’s pretty frustrating to have folks who screwed up Vatican II, and continue to defend distortions and falsehoods about what Vatican II called for, call themselves “Vatican II priests”–and then to have the effrontery to label those who clean it up–and actually doing what Vatican II said–“anti Vatican II.

    That takes a lot of brass.

    Now, do you care to refute my arguments? Or will you do as the NCR/”Spirit of Vatican II” crowd usually does, and just cluck that I’m being mean?

  8. Supertradmum says:

    frj4321
    if we are working hard but not orthodox, it is our work we are doing not God’s.

    [Sapienti pauca!]

    Fr. Z's Gold Star Award

  9. frjim4321 says:

    FMF – – –

    People will do what they need to do to survive, even if they perceive that they’re on a sinking ship.

    I don’t know if I see any cogent arguments there, just a handful of opinions that I’d be hard pressed to agree with.

    – – – fjb

  10. frjim4321 says: I’m on the mailing list

    Being on a mailing list doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with what they promote. You could have wound up on their list because someone else proposed your name or they bought a mailing list or two. You could be simply keeping tabs on their antics. At least I hope that is why you are on their mailing list.

    So, do you agree with their resolutions? Their action items?

    – promotion of the ordination of women to diaconate and priesthood
    – election of bishops by lay people
    – general absolution
    – use of the obsolete 1973 translation
    – ending the annual collection for the Archdiocese for Military Services

    Would you support these points? Opt out of any of them?

  11. Father Jim:

    From the article:

    Confirming that the average age of members is about 70, [Father Dave] Cooper said there has been resistance from younger, more recently ordained priests, some of whom “see us as disloyal if not downright dissenting.”

    Alluding to recent studies that have pointed to differing views of church and authority between older and younger generations of Catholic clergy, Cooper described “Vatican II priests” as viewing the priesthood in terms of “service, of washing the feet of others” in contrast to clerics who hold a “priest as ruler” model.

    Cooper said the association is working hard to “build bridges” and to “hold hands with the laity and at the same time with the bishops.”

    Note well: Father Cooper describes himself, and his group, as “Vatican II priests”–who are about “service…washing the feet of others.” What about those priests he claims to want to reach out to?

    They aren’t about Vatican II; they are about being “rulers.”

    Golly, hard to understand why the younger priests aren’t more interested!

  12. Scott W. says:

    obtain permission from Pope Francis to use the obsolete 1973 translation for Mass

    NOW who’s trying to turn back the clock?

  13. Supertradmum:

    In fairness, I’ll agree with Father Jim on that point. Our older priests here–including those who would probably be sympathetic in many ways to the idea that their generation are Vatican II “keepers of the flame,” and the young, cassocked louts lately ordained, not so much–do indeed work hard.

    And while I am not vouching for every sermon or every Mass they offer, many of them, despite all, manage to keep their, well let’s say quaint notions, out of homilies and the celebration of sacraments.

  14. Mary Jane says:

    Fr Z, I will be very surprised if frjim4321 answers any of your questions.

  15. Tim Ferguson says:

    I find myself smiling regularly now when priest who describe themselves as “Vatican II priests” complain about the younger generation of priests being “too conservative” or variations thereof.

    First off, this is generation of priests who weren’t happy with their elders when they were young –
    “those guys are so stuck in their ways, they won’t embrace the change we’ve ingested in the seminary!” Now they’re unhappy with the younger priests, “those guys learn stuff in the seminary and now they want to come in and change everything!” If you’re out of sync both with the generation that came before you and the generation that is coming after you, do you think a little introspection might cause you to wonder if maybe – just maybe – you’re the ones who are out of sync?

    Secondly, they complain about the generation of priests coming up – but what have they done to foster vocations? If “these young priests” are so frustratingly conservative and “out of touch with the people” – why haven’t you fostered young vocations who want to follow in your ideological footsteps? If your way is so patently good, why haven’t young men by the thousands lined up and stormed the seminaries crying, “I want to be just like Father Lovebeads! Please, please, please ordain me so I can dissent from the Church!”

    Many of the older priests of my acquaintance want nothing to do with young seminarians or young priests, and paint them all as reactionary. Yet they’re unwilling to even engage in the type of conversations with them that they criticize the young men for failing to do, and get to know them, get to know their thoughts and reasoning, and the depth of their faith. The self-styled paragons of the dialogic model and heralds of consensus and collaboration simple close out and write off the young priests who do not see things the way they do. Whatever insights of value they have into pastoral practice (and, despite the dissenting views that many of them have, their experiences and insights are not totally worthless) will die with them – and that’s been their own choice.

  16. frjim4321 says:

    - promotion of the ordination of women to diaconate and priesthood

    Two different issues as far as I am concerned. Finding scriptural evidence for ordained women deacons is much easier than for ordained women presbyters. And I know for some the former is in question, while probably for most the latter is conventional thought. I think those who advocate for the ordination of women to presbyteral ministry aren’t looking for explicit scriptural support, since frankly it doesn’t seem to be there.

    – election of bishops by lay people

    I don’t know if that’s the answer. But what we’re doing now doesn’t seem to be working. We seem to be sucking all the energy and creativity out of the episcopacy by forcing all the climbers to be cookie cutter “yes” men. Bishops don’t seem to preach to their people, they don’t meet their needs, rather they choose their words very carefully in order to promote their own cause for advancement.

    – general absolution

    My dear Mother would love that. It has historic validity. It brought in lots of people who otherwise wouldn’t go. If we’re so big on the importance of the sacrament of penance why do we make it so complicated to administer?

    – use of the obsolete 1973 translation

    I don’t understand that request at all; the people who want to do it are doing it anyway. When I was newly ordained a retired pastor who was a visitor told me, “what you can do with permission, you can do without permission. So, no I don’t agree with this at all.

    – ending the annual collection for the Archdiocese for Military Services

    I don’t see what is to gain from ending that collection. The Catholic chaplains are getting creamed by the Evangelicals. They need all the help they can get.

  17. Tim Ferguson:

    Yep, yep, yep.

    And, I want to emphasize (and Father Jim, here’s an argument you are welcome to refute), the older generation that claims to be Vatican II “keepers of the flame” in fact mangled the teachings of Vatican II. Example? Turned around altars. Example? “Rubrics Schmubrics!” Example? Latin? Vatican II got rid of that. Example? Altars, rails, statues and arts must go; tabernacles must move; churches must no longer look like they always did. Example? Catechisms are bad.

    The newer generation of priests have all been taught–extensively–from Vatican II documents. They –we–have studied them carefully. Apparently, too carefully, because we started to notice a glaring divergence between what was done, and what the Council actually said. We have been faithful to the Council. Very faithful.

    And for that, what do the V2 priests say about those cassocked barbarians at the gate? That we’re against Vatican II.

  18. StJude says:

    oh Father Z… I am cracking up at the title.

  19. Atra Dicenda, Rubra Agenda says:

    “Ass. of Catholic Priests”. hehe. Father, I see what you did there.

  20. Atra Dicenda, Rubra Agenda says:

    @frjim: ““what you can do with permission, you can do without permission.”

    I feel the total disregard for the scandal that uttering such statements to a new and impressionable priest belies a disobedient heart in the speaker. “Spirit of Vatican II” indeed. That saddens me.

  21. benedetta says:

    I fail to see what the Second Council has to do with any of their agenda. As usual VII is not what it is but what some lunatics (lol frjim4321) pretend it to mean.

  22. Springkeeper says:

    I can’t seem to get beyond the “Vatican II” priest quote implying that they are SO much more humble and Christ-like then these young whipper-snappers who do nutty things like wear cassocks, love Latin Mass and participating in the awe-inspiring sacraments of an ancient Church. I love our priests (who are faithful to Christ’s Church) and weep for those who are not.

    I spent over four decades not being able to go to confession, I have no intention of giving it up for some fast-food quickie general absolution.

  23. Jack Hughes says:

    Well as a someone discerning a vocation to the Priesthood I guess I fall into the Lunatic group, Fr jims comments remind me of a picture of my PP with some friends talking to a Bishop at a Training conference on how to say the Old Mass, the caption read ” a meeting of Dangerous Lunatics”.

    Well Fr jim I know of 1 dangerous looney who is currently finishing his 2nd year with the Fraternity of St Peter, another who (God Willing) will be starting this year, one more who is looking for a good religious community and then there is myself……. potentially 5 guys from one Latin Mass Youth Group (it keeps falling apart and reforming as its leaders enter the seminary or religious life) …….. how many guys from your parish have you sent to seminary in the past couple of years? Cassock and Cotta (can never have enough lace) loving loonies we may be but we are the future.

  24. benedetta says:

    Any priest who thinks he can dictate to me that I cannot give to the Archd for Military Services is indeed attempting to “rule” in the grossest way possible.

  25. Athelstan says:

    Hello Fr. Fox,

    …and the young, cassocked louts lately ordained, not so much–do indeed work hard.

    I can’t quite tell if your tongue is in your cheek or not.

  26. frjim4321 says:

    Well Fr jim I know of 1 dangerous looney who is currently finishing his 2nd year with the Fraternity of St Peter, another who (God Willing) will be starting this year, one more who is looking for a good religious community and then there is myself……. potentially 5 guys from one Latin Mass Youth Group (it keeps falling apart and reforming as its leaders enter the seminary or religious life) …….. how many guys from your parish have you sent to seminary in the past couple of years? Cassock and Cotta (can never have enough lace) loving loonies we may be but we are the future.

    Fine and dandy, but do they do any real work?

  27. Athelstan says:

    Hello Tim,

    Secondly, they complain about the generation of priests coming up – but what have they done to foster vocations?

    Good point, Tim.

    I suspect many of them will blame it on Humanae Vitae or other church moral teachings they find disagreeable (or sexual abuse). Which would leave unexplained the rapid shrinkage (including of vocations) of religious denominations which have zestfully embraced all of these same beliefs.

  28. acardnal says:

    frjim, I think you were asked a legitimate question above: how many or your parishioners have gone on to the priesthood or religious life?

  29. AdIesumPerMariam says:

    Forgive me frjim… but what in the world is so hard about administering the Sacrament of Penance??? It seems like a pretty straightforward practice. Get in a confessional, hear confessions, say prayer of absolution, assign penance, next in line.

    The sacrament’s importance doesn’t excuse it being done sloppily and incompletely.

  30. Imrahil says:

    I was under the impression that a priest’s principal real work is to celebrate Holy Mass. A priest’s principal real pastoral work is to celebrate a non-private Holy Mass.

    (Yeah… I left the Breviary out. It just simplifies argumentation. But yes, we might think of the Breviary too.)

  31. frjim4321 says:

    Imrahil, yes, I lived with a man who thought that the 30 minute daily mass was all the work he ever needed to do. He spent the rest of the day walking, riding his bike, tending his garden, not taking an phone calls or “walk-ins,” alientating people so much that nobody wanted him for weddings or funerals, and the other two priest picked up his work.

    Give me a $38K certified pastoral minister any time over a $55K presbyter who does no work and spends most of his time undermining everyone else.

    Believe me, I’m not the only pastor to be of this opinion. The biggest complaint in this diocese is pastors when the bishop inflicts a no-work priest on the parish, depleting resources that could be put to much better use. “I’ve seen your financial report, I can tell what you can afford.” B.S.!

    Not to mention the agony of living with a malcontent or psychological defective that refuses to go into therapy. Have you ever lived with a borderline personality? It wants to sucks the soul right out of you.

  32. benedetta says:

    frjim4321 as usual prefers to run rampaging down a rabbit hole.

  33. frjim4321 says:

    right, benedetta, it had nothing to do with imrahil’s tangental blast at me

  34. Margaret says:

    What always cracks me up is how out-of-touch the “spirit of Vatican II” is with the actual documents of Vatican II. I just spent the past year studying Lumen Gentium monthly with a group of moms, of a fairly conservative bent. We didn’t employ anybody else’s analysis or interpretation or spin, just read and discussed straight from the text. And every month I came away thinking of that line from The Princess Bride: You keep using that word! I do not think it means what you think it means! in reference to the “spirit” crowd. Meanwhile, the gal who’s exclusively a TLM-attendee and had only heard about the bad side of VII, kept commenting, “I don’t see why people have a problem with Vatican II. This is really good, solid stuff!”

  35. benedetta says:

    Well said, Margaret.

    I think it’s hilarious that the most anti social, whacked out, unable to cope types in the priesthood I have met have been the uber liberal ones who style themselves as pastoral pros or people savvy. It’s the exact opposite. I think we kid ourselves if we don’t think that deluded VII types don’t crack the whip, aren’t dictatorial and territorial, and manipulative to boot. I have found that orthodox priests know who they are and who they serve, and they aren’t interested in stomping all over people’s personal boundaries either.

  36. maryh says:

    From the article on the “fledgling” association of priests with an average age of 70 yrs Cooper said the association’s first order of business was “writing a snail mail letter to every ordinary in the U.S. explaining who we are and what we are doing and our mission statement.

    Snail mail. Yep, we know who his targets are. Well, at least he’s heard the term. No doubt the letter was run off on the mimeograph machine.

  37. I said:

    …and the young, cassocked louts lately ordained, not so much–do indeed work hard.

    Athelstan says:

    I can’t quite tell if your tongue is in your cheek or not.

    (Smile.)

    Well, two responses. First, I consider that an accomplishment.

    Second, what I was trying to do, there, was a complex expression, shifting back and forth from what I imagined the V2 priests would say, and my own ideas. If it’s confusing, ignore it.

  38. benedetta says:

    This truly is a lunatic fringe if it thinks that VII, the spirit or the reality, somehow dictates that we must as a Church deny spiritual, moral and pastoral support to our men and women serving in the military. Way out there.

  39. Suburbanbanshee says:

    Re: living with nutcases or borderline personalities —

    That’s a legitimate complaint, folks. There are creepy priests out there, and it’s not good to live with them. I don’t care what their politics are, if the person is mentally ill. And yeah, that would certainly put you off whatever they claimed to support.

  40. Milton says:

    I reached out to Fr. Doug Koesel, the initiator of the proposal to allow the outdated 1973 Missal to be used.

    He claimed to have never met anybody who likes the new, current translation of the Roman Missal, so I introduced myself and my family.

    He replied theorizing that it’s a Tennessee thing that causes me to like the new translation.

    Perhaps some people from here would also like to drop him a line to reassure him that it isn’t a “Tennessee thing.” – Just remember Fr. Z’s rules of engagement.

    Here’s his e-mail address: [REMPOVED BY FR Z. Don’t do that again.]

  41. Uncle Miltie 615 says:

    Also, it was a point of pride that it didn’t list the Diocese of Nashville as having any priests as members. When your bishop looks like a pirate, it’s best not to mess around.

  42. frjim4321 says:

    Oh, nice, let’s all spam a priest’s mailbox.

  43. Uncle Miltie 615 says:

    Fr. 4321, it’s not spam. I’m not suggesting hate mail, or unsolicited offers for products. I’m suggesting that we help form community and expand his circle of acquaintances. No sarcasm here. No tongue in cheek. I am taking his statement that he had never met anybody that likes the current translation at face value. That’s a shame, and for him to think it’s a “Tennessee thing,” that’s also a shame.

    Fr. Z, I apologize. I will ask Fr. Koesel if he wants to be contacted by people who do not live in Tennessee and like the current translation of the Roman Missal. I will report back here if he answers in the affirmative.

  44. RafkasRoad says:

    ‘Ass’, Father?

    Would ‘Rumppe’ not be a more apt description? What do readers from England think of this alternative?

    Just having a little larrikin fun, nothing more…

    Aussie Marounite.

  45. Jack Hughes says:

    Ok Fr jim

    The Fraternity makes sure that all Seminarians do some form of manual work in their seminary.

    As for me, if ordained I’ll be spending lots of time in the confessional, visiting the sick etc etc

    Does that count as work?

  46. Singing Mum says:

    I am also spurting with giggles about the convenient abbreviation.
    But, but, Father!! Where does that leave me as a member of the CMAA?
    Oh dear.

    Fr. Jim asked about priests wearing cassocks and all the traditional goodies and if they actually work. I was hired at an FSSP parish several years ago. Before that, I had very minimal contact with such priests. I’ve also worked in other parishes. I can tell you the FSSP priests I’ve seen serve the faithful tirelessly, honestly much moreso than other priests I’ve known. There are more programs, more sacraments, more appointments- its dizzying. I don’t want to speculate as to why, but it’s something that struck me since I started work at the parish. It’s just one parish, but that’s been my consistent observation. Fwiw.

  47. Tradster says:

    It’s a sad commentary on the V2 clergy (not all, of course) that my first thought when reading “hold hands with the laity and at the same time with the bishops” was of the Lavender Mafia.

  48. Imrahil says:

    Rev’d dear @Fr Jim,

    far from “tangentially blasting” at you, I was referring (and I perhaps should have made that clear, with “rev’d dear @Fr Jim” and all, wanted to be brief but: apologies if necessary) to the comment when you explicitly said:

    Fine and dandy, but do they any real work?

    Well, Mass, Breviary, are such. I also think they would distribute the Sacraments upon being asked, and catechize people upon being questioned, plus some sermon.

    Whatever this is, and whether it is principal (as I hold; systematically, that is, and not as far as the time spent with it goes) or not, it is certainly not nothing.

  49. Imrahil says:

    To put that even more short,

    if you had said “enough” instead of “any”, I had remained silent.

  50. Imrahil says:

    Dear @AdIesumPerMariam,

    I have no doubt that the rev’d @Fr Jim did not find his administering of the Sacrament of Penance hard, but the people’s receiving.

    It cannot be denied that it is easier to have appear, say e. g. the Confiteor and be absolved of one’s sins, than to need to go through the process of examination of conscience, getting remorse, and actually confessing them to someone else.

    Nevertheless, I do feel that general-absolution on a general basis is an ought-not-to-be. I cannot at the moment convincingly argue for it (for “then they get too easy off” is no argument), but maybe it has to do with that words from somewhere in the Letters, “confess your sins to one another”, which by institution of the Church and not unaptly is the priest because he administers the Sacrament.

  51. pmullane says:

    “The members aren’t lunatics”

    They arent Catholics either.

  52. Orlandu84 says:

    I actually know a priest who belongs to this group. From what he has said about the group and from what he has said about the Church, I make the following inductive remark: these people just love to complain. Unfortunately, political discourse is no different from complaining loudly for much of our society. In other words politics is now reducible to protest. Accordingly, this group is an institutional complaining group. Expect them to complain about every and any thing they can. Also, remember that the best way to help someone who is complaining for the sake of complaining is just to ignore them politely.

  53. Father Jim:

    When you suggest that lack of work ethic and “borderline personality” are features particularly associated with the newer, more conservative priests, that is pretty hard to take seriously.

    It dovetails, however, with the original article, in which Father Cooper wraps himself, and his like-minded compatriots, in the mantle of true-to-Vatican II, being about “service,” unlike the newer generation.

  54. AngelGuarded says:

    I wondered over to the old hippie priests’ websites and this immediately caught my eye:
    ________________________________________________
    “AUSCP is now a 501(c)3!
    The Association of US Catholic Priests has received official exemption as a tax exempt organization. We “are exempt from Federal income tax under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code. Contributions … are deductible under section 170 of the Code.”

    We may “receive tax deductible bequests, devices, transfers, or gifts under section 2055, 2016, or 2522 of the Code.” We are hereby classified as a “Public Charity” in the “Publication 4221-PC.” This includes all donations dating back to June of 2012.”
    _________________________
    Knowing what we know about the IRS’s inquisition of prolife, patriot, and tea-party groups (conservatives) , these old gas expulsions got their IRS paperwork through! Maybe we should have a litmus test – you get your tax-favored status during this administration = you are progressive (liberal) and you proved it!

  55. dominic1955 says:

    Folks, just do some simple research yourself, i.e. Google Fr. Doug Koesel and you’ll see that he supposedly had “Futurechurch” headquartered at his old parish at one point. That is the kind of folks this Ass. is made up of. It terribly sad to witness this kind of priestly activism-God be merciful to them when they shuffle off this mortal coil.

    As to the “work” matter, since when does “work” become so important in determining the value of priestly ministry? Some people need to read “Soul of the Apostolate”. Work is certainly important, but if its not grounded in real prayer and fidelity to the Church, no matter how hard you physically or mentally bust your hump, you had just as well sit there and twiddle your thumbs.

    That said, I agree 100% with SingingMum, the traditional priests I know are also the best examples of priestly hard work you can find. The same basic thing could be said about many of the younger diocesan priests with traditional proclivities.

  56. Fr AJ says:

    I love this, all these great Vatican II priests are soooo hard working and all these young stupid conservative priests are soooo lazy. I’ll have you know, I’m the pastor of two parishes a long distance apart with 4+ Sunday Masses and I’m here because all the VII hard working priests said it was too much work for them and won’t accept it as an assignment. Sheesh. Most of the VII generation priests I know think they are college professors and take off 10+ weeks a year for vacation – I know because I have to cover for one of them. I haven’t had any vacation at all in several years. I could go on but I’m sick of this BS from these guys.

  57. Athelstan says:

    Hello Dominic,

    As to the “work” matter, since when does “work” become so important in determining the value of priestly ministry? Some people need to read “Soul of the Apostolate”. Work is certainly important, but if its not grounded in real prayer and fidelity to the Church, no matter how hard you physically or mentally bust your hump, you had just as well sit there and twiddle your thumbs.

    Well said, Dominic.

    This is what happens when an immanentist mindset takes hold. The spiritual dimension is lost, or at least reduced to such a horizontal level that it is rarely, if ever, seen in operation beyond human hands and human minds.

    Why do many of these priests remain so attached to this model, despite the results all around them? As a priest of my acquaintance once said, most of these men were “one change men.” They had one change in them, and that was the change they were told to adopt in the 1960’s. To change again…to admit that the way you have done things, the way you have believed, for most of your adult life, was fundamentally wrong-headed, can be hard for *any* human. A few are capable, but most are not. Empirical data of failure are too quickly explained by other causes, without any real self-examination. And even approaches proven to work – the 30(!) vocations of Msgr. Schuler’s parish alluded to by Fr. Z elsewhere today – are dismissed, because, quite frankly, some of these men would rather we had NO vocations than these…”reactionary” priests.

    I think that Soul of the Apostolate, if given as a gift to one of these priests, would engender a resentful response. And that is most unfortunate.

  58. Charlotte Allen says:

    Here’s a photo of the good fathers from the “About” page on the AUSCP website:

    http://www.uscatholicpriests.org/about/

    Interesting that not one of them is wearing clerical garb in this official photo.

  59. Athelstan says:

    Hello Fr. Fox,

    Well, two responses. First, I consider that an accomplishment.

    All right. Fair enough. :)

    It sounded out of character, so I wondered if my snark detector needed recharging.

  60. BLB Oregon says:

    –“The members aren’t lunatics, in fact here they are some of the more solid and hard-working guys….
    “Give me a $38K certified pastoral minister any time over a $55K presbyter who does no work and spends most of his time undermining everyone else.”–frjim4321

    What is that quote from Matthew? Something like “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for flesh and blood does not turn out hard workers like you”?

    Nobody here is doubting that it is less important for a priest to work hard than for anyone else in the Church, but let’s talk about what difference there is between a priest and a layperson. How would you answer that question–what difference does it make whether a Catholic man is ordained or not? It’s not work ethic. What is it?

    IOW–explain why there ought to be a distinct ministerial priesthood at all.

  61. OrthodoxLinguist says:

    I understand that one could reasonably have different opinions on when military force is appropriate, but is it really their position that members of the military should be denied pastoral care? Bizarre.

  62. frjim4321 says:

    Charlotte, I actually know one of those guys very well. He’s an incredibly awesome priest and pastor. How sad that you judge without knowing these men at all.

  63. chonak says:

    Item #15 is a proposal that dioceses should pick their own apostolic administrators after the retirement of a bishop. In effect, it’s a complaint by two Rochester priests that they don’t like the bishop of Syracuse having temporary charge of their diocese. How sad that they can’t bring themselves to accept his ministry in the loving and wise spirit in which it’s intended.

  64. Charlotte Allen says:

    @Fr. Jim:

    I made no judgments about the moral or pastoral virtues (or lack thereof) of the priests who posed for the AUSCP photo. I don’t even know who any of them are. I merely pointed out that not one of them was wearing clerical attire when he posed for an official AUSCP photo posted prominently on the AUSCP website. I don’t expect priests to wear clerical garb (which is the equivalent of business attire in the secular world) when they’re doing chores or relaxing in the rectory. But in an official photo in which they present themselves to the public as Catholic priests?

  65. lawoski says:

    frjim4321-

    Charlotte posted a picture and made an observation which she labeled as “interesting.” The observation she made (i.e., not one of them is wearing clerical garb) is a true statement. You replied “how sad that you judge without knowing these men at all.” (I infer from your use of the term “sad” that you believe that Charlotte was judging negatively the priests in the picture).

    Please explain, using quotes from Charlotte’s comment, the basis for your assertion. In other words, please point to the the word or words Charlotte used that led you to conclude that she was judging the priests. If there are any assumptions that underlie your assertion that Charlotte was judging the priests, please state each assumption you made and the factual basis you had for making that assumption.

  66. chonak says:

    Going by the group’s name, it’s composed of priests who read U.S. Catholic magazine.