Univ. of Notre Dame and the TLM

I got this from a reader:

Notre Dame’s weekly Tridentine Mass will be starting up again this weekend (for more information, see the Campus Ministry website). Note the later Mass time which, while still far from ideal, will hopefully make it easier for both the die-hards and the curious to attend.
Why yes, that is my poster design. Thanks for noticing. (the image is, I believe, from the St. Andrew’s Missal)

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. Kradcliffe says:

    What’s wrong with 9am?

    Cool poster!

  2. Deusdonat says:

    Nice poster! But from the resolution on my screen, it looks as if “God” is serving up severed heads.

    Also, I know this is a point you weren’t intending to make on this thread, but am I the only one who is EXTREMELY uncomfortable with depictions of God the father in any form?

  3. Ben says:

    College students have an inexplicable tendency to sleep in on Sunday mornings. This was a greater problem when the Mass was held at 8:00–that all but guaranteed that only “die-hards” would attend.

    Thanks to Campus Ministries, Fr. Ayo, and Fr. Blantz!

  4. Paul says:

    “These are all low Masses, at the St. Charles Borromeo Chapel of Alumni Hall, and are intended for the students, faculty and staff of the University. ”

    This is from “The Traditional Latin Mass in Michiana” blog:

    In other words it is not taking place in the basilica. Go figure… perhaps it would interfere with the “contemporary” mass?

  5. TJM says:

    Paul, actually the Basilica features a heavy dose of Gregorian Chant and Sacred Polyphony at its Sunday Masses. My daughter was married
    at the Basilica this summer and ALL of the music for the Wedding Mass was in Latin. We had a 4 part choir of student musicians sing the Kyrie,
    Sanctus/Benedictus and Agnus Dei from Viadana’s Missa Passa L’Hora in addition to Victoria’s Ave Maria, the Franck Panis Angelicus and
    the Schubert Ave Maria. The polyphonic Ordinary was, in particular, exquisite. Over time Notre Dame has been moving in the direction of
    recovering more and more of the sacred tradition and music. Hence, the seeds were sown for the re-introduction of the TLM. Tom

  6. Emily says:


    Given the current numbers (hovering around 50 or less, though we’ll see what the time change does for that), the Basilica would be rather cavernous for this Mass. Also, the new time would run right up against (or even overlap) the 10:00 Basilica Mass (which, incidentally, is a far cry from “contemporary,” often incorporating chant and polyphony into their musical program). The chapel in Alumni Hall is quite beautiful and well set up for the celebration of the usus antiquior (the high altar still intact, etc), and all in all, it’s a very good situation.

  7. James Garrison says:

    Neat. I was hoping to find something like this, I got spoiled knowing where to find St. John Cantius in Chicago, and wasn’t sure what sorts of masses I’d find in South Bend.

  8. Johnny Domer says:

    And we’ll have Sung Masses soon!!! Stay tuned!!

  9. Terth says:

    Why is a 9:00 am start time for Mass far from ideal?

  10. Supertradmom says:

    Praise be to God. When I was at ND, we trads and conservatives had to huddle around a fire like urchins for support.

  11. Paul says:

    I understand that the basilica has good music and I am aware of the size. I attend mass there regularly- so do a lot of other non-domers in the area(aka: South Bend residents). However, With such a beautiful resource as the basilica, why not utilize it in conjunction with TLM. People from outside the domer community do not necessarily feel comfortable entering into the less public areas of the university. It’s like wearing tennis shoes with a suit; it just doesn’t meet the potential. My sarcastic comment at the end of the last post comes from personal experience of some HC priest and the fact that ND still allows stuff like the Vag. M. in direct defiance of the Bishop of the FWSB Diocese. So basically it all boils down to an annoyance of ND falling short in faithfully embracing its Catholic identity.
    P.S. The link I provided in my previous post is not a link to a bunch of nay saying, it links to mass schedules and locations for TLM in the Michigan/Indiana area. And I realize ND has come a long way…

  12. AJP says:


    I too am uncomfortable with artistic depictions of God the Father.
    It is a beautiful image, but something about seeing the Father in
    human form that bugs me. I can’t put my finger on exactly why. Maybe
    because it reminds me of Mormonism, or maybe because of the common atheist
    canard that Christians worship a big “Santa Claus” in the sky.

    To get back on topic, this is a very good development at ND. I graduated
    only 5 years ago, but am amazed by how much has already changed as far
    as tradition goes. When I was there, there was a decent amount of
    sympathy for tradition among the devout undergrads, but we didn’t have
    anything like what we’re seeing now. I think a lot of the energy among
    the devout undergrads was channeled into promoting orthodoxy in the face of
    the heterodoxy that sometimes was quite entrenched at ND. We recognized
    the importance of liturgical matters, but that wasn’t the main focus. But
    this is really excellent news, and even more excellent is the fact that
    Campus Ministry is fully supporting this.

    My Latin is very rusty, but in the spirit of things . .
    Ite Hiberniani!
    Michigania fellat :)

  13. Jordanes says:

    Deusdonat asked: am I the only one who is EXTREMELY uncomfortable with depictions of God the father in any form?

    By no means. There are millions of people who are uncomfortable with that, though many of them aren’t Catholic, or even Christian. It is, nevertheless, very much an intregral part of Catholic sacred art. If the Second and Third Persons of the Blessed Trinity may be depicted, there can’t be anything wrong with depicting the Person of the Father (and I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Father depicted except in symbolic representations of the Trinity, usually the Trinitarian Action of the Atonement).

  14. Just a friendly reminder (and a plug):

    The Mass at Notre Dame is intended for the University community, and the chapel is in a residence hall.

    If you aren’t a student, or a member of the faculty or staff of the university, you are welcome to attend the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite at St. Patrick’s Catholic Church in South Bend. All Sundays at 7:45 am (1st and 3rd Sundays are sung Masses), and Holy Days of Obligation at 7:00pm.

    St. Patrick’s is the oldest church in South Bend (there’s actually one older, but when it was built it was not at that time in the city limits). Beautiful St. Patrick’s was designed for the Traditional Latin Mass, and the high altar is intact and in use! The priest who offers the Mass is Fr. George Gabet of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter.

    A note about the Mass at Notre Dame… I think the people that need to be thanked are the students, a rather large handful, whose efforts, tenacity, and prayers so quickly brought the Extraordinary Form to the university. Within in only a couple of months after Summorum Pontificum, and well before it’s implementation date, these students organized an extremely effective campaign, the success of which simply shocked myself and everyone else in the South Bend Latin Mass Community. Those students, whom I have the pleasure of being acquainted with a few, are simply amazing individuals, and they give me great hope for the future.

  15. Pes says:

    By the way, the chapel in Alumni Hall is rather hostile to singers. Its coffered ceiling acts as a sound baffle, eating sound, preventing any reverberation and support for singing. The chapel is, however, ideal for Low Masses.

    The Extraordinary Form seems ideally suited with the basilica, and there is no reason to wonder why: they were made for each other. It is a great pity that they ever got divorced. I hope to see them wedded again there soon.

    Another splendid place on campus for a Missa Cantata would be the Reyes Organ Recital Hall, the acoustic of which is ideal for chant. I think there can be as much as 4.5 seconds of reverberation in there? Something like that. The organ is built in a Northern German style to play the music of Buxtehude et al.

    I don’t see why this hall could not have a consecrated high altar. Commission one. Masses in there would be so intensely vivid, so searingly contemplative and reverberant, that its 80 or so pew seats would be filled instantly, and people would clamor to pray in the upper galleries.

    It would be one of the great chapels on campus. The only objection would be that offering Masses in there would affect the rehearsal schedules of organ students — and there are more organ students than ever before.

    God bless Notre Dame, and wake up its echoes. It is long past time.

  16. paul says:

    I think from a traditional point of view 9am is perfect for Mass to be said. It respects the right of those who choose to fast from midnight, and is very traditional as the Orthodox generally will offer the divine liturgy around 10am and they are sticklers about tradition. If you go back to the time when Mass was offered say in the 1940’s and back Mass was always offered in the morning hours.

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