5 Jan. – 2005MartRom – #9

17 Responses to 5 Jan. – 2005MartRom – #9

1. Jon says:

   5 January 2009 at 11:24 AM

   Father,

   My FSSP 2009 Ordo for January 5th reads:

   Feria in Christmastide
   or St. Telesphorus
   Pope & Martyr
   or usa St. John Neumann
   Bishop & Confessor
2. Anthony says:

   5 January 2009 at 11:54 AM

   Since the feria is only IV class, could not St. John Neumann be celebrated as a votive Mass even if it were not listed in the Ordo? I would think that this would cover a number of newer feasts until further clarification from Rome.
3. william says:

   5 January 2009 at 11:57 AM

   Or, to be more accurate, the lesser of the two feasts of Edward the Confessor. The Martyrology entry for today does not make this clear, but the entry for Oct 13 does (cited in a reader’s comment on the Valle Adurni blog):

   Tértio Idus Octóbris.

   Sancti Eduárdi, Regis Anglórum et Confessóris, qui Nonis Januárii obdormívit in Dómino, sed hac die, ob Translatiónem córporis ejus, potíssimum cólitur.
4. Joshua says:

   5 January 2009 at 11:58 AM

   Father, the FSSP ordo even has propers for St. Elizabeth Seton and St. John Neumann in the appendices
5. Tom in NY says:

   5 January 2009 at 12:23 PM

   “Remembrance of St. John Nepomucene Neumann,
   Redemptorist, bishop of Philadelphia in Pennsylvania, USA. He helped immigrants in their poverty with influence, advice and charity. His highest concern was Christian education for children.”

   Una sententia anglica tres lingua latina loquitur. Notare in S. Elizabeth Seton discussione etiam eundem radicem “instituere” docet.
   Omnibus salutationes.
6. Dev Thakur says:

   5 January 2009 at 12:26 PM

   My question is even more basic: can this feast be celebrated in the Liturgia Horarum (the reformed office)?

   I have started to say the entire new office in Latin, but have no idea what to do today. This morning I combined the Latin with the concludying prayer in English found in Volume 1 of the LOTh translation.

   For vespers would it be licit to simply use a concluding prayer from the Common of Pastors in teh Latin?
7. Dev Thakur says:

   5 January 2009 at 12:29 PM

   One thing to add: I remember reading all about this discussion last year, but there was no solution. Readers found the texts to be used with the 1962MR, but no one has the Latin propers for current rite!

   Pity!
8. Geoffrey says:

   5 January 2009 at 12:40 PM

   Dev Thakur: You are correct. When in doubt, or unable to use the proper prayer(s), the Common would be the default. I did this on the Memorial of St. Padre Pio this past year.

   The USA English edition of the Liturgy of the Hours does include him in an appendix, but it is obviously old as it refers to him as Blessed!
9. Henry Edwards says:

   5 January 2009 at 1:02 PM

   Dev Thakur: Here is the Collect for St. John Neumann from the afore-mentioned FSSP Ordo:

   Deus, qui beatum Ioannem Confessorem tuum atque Pontificem pastoralibus ministeriis clarescere voluisti; concede propitious: ut eius monita et exemplat sectantes, vitam consequamur aeternam. Per dominum.

   O God, who willed blessed John, thy confessor and bishop, to shine in pastoral works; graciously grant that , following his teachings and examples, we might obtain eternal life. Through our Lord.

   Incidentally, St. John Neumann, Bishop and Confessor is listed as class III in U.S. dioceses (except in those PA dioceses where it is class II), whereas January 5 is a ferial day.
10. Dr. LMF says:

    5 January 2009 at 1:22 PM

    It’s certainly permissible to celebrate St. John today using the 1962 books…one celebrates a “festal” Mass using texts from the appropriate common; the Gloria is permitted; it’s allowed because it’s a IV class and he’s named the Martyrology.
11. Kevin says:

    5 January 2009 at 1:47 PM

    9. Philadelphiae in Pennsilvania e Civitatibus Foederatis Americae Septemtrionalis, santi Ioannis Nepomuceni Neumann, episcopi, e Congregatione Sanctissimi Redemptoris, qui migrantes paupertatis causa ope, consilio et caritate adiuvit et de puerorum christiana institutione summopere sollicitus fuit.

    At Philadelphia in Pennsylvania, USA, St. John Nep. Neumann, bishop, of the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer, who aided immigrants for poverty with material help, advice and charity, and who was exceedingly concerned for the Christian instruction of children.
12. Dev Thakur says:

    5 January 2009 at 2:17 PM

    Henry Edwards: thank you. But can I use this prayer in the current (new) Liturgy of the Hours, since it comes from the FSSP Ordo, which I assume is for the traditional liturgy?
13. Henry Edwards says:

    5 January 2009 at 2:38 PM

    Dev Thakur: Without attempting to answer in any authoritative sense, I wouldn’t know why not. I have prayed both the (new) Liturgia Horarum (currently) and the (old) Breviarium Romanum (previously), and noted many Latin prayers in the new office that come intact word-for-word from the traditional office.
14. Fr Fenton says:

    5 January 2009 at 2:40 PM

    Henry,

    Where in the ordo do you see these collects? I have been through my copy thoroughly and do not see them. It would be good to have for Mass in a little bit!
15. Henry Edwards says:

    5 January 2009 at 2:49 PM

    Fr. Fenton,

    The Mass for January 5, St. John Neumann (Collect, Secret, and Postcommunion) is on page 74 of the 2008 Ordo, but this appendix appears not to be included in the 2009 Ordo.
16. Fr Fenton says:

    5 January 2009 at 3:41 PM

    Thank you Henry. I thought I was losing it! Sadly I have gotten rid of the old ordo since the new arrived.

    God bless!
17. Trevor says:

    5 January 2009 at 5:16 PM

    Our parish priest said a memorial for St. Neumann (2002 MR) for his daily Mass.

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