More American Catholic Council joy in Detroit! A local TV report.

There was a story on the local news about the American Catholic Council… Council… get it?  Council?

Several points in the report were misleading.  For example, there could only be canonical consequences, realistically, for clerics of the Archdiocese of Detroit who participated in their “liturgy”, in direct defiance of the written communication of the Archbishop.

And the “arguments” used by the people who gave sound bites…. well… not really that compelling.

The people who attended this are … how to put this in language they might understand readily and accept… well… they are “on the wrong side of history”.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. GordonB says:

    The Biological Solution is on full display here.

  2. Gail F says:

    Why are they all wearing stoles? What was that weird “putting stoles on each other ritual” thing? Is that supposed to show that they are from a “priestly people” or something? Because they are not an ORDAINED people. This is so sad.

    People are saying nasty things about how old they are. Some of the most wonderful people I know are that age (and many of them aren’t much older than I am). Very holy, good, generous, devout people — some of them pretty liberal. But SHEESH, not like this!

    They seem to be more concerned about being “nice” than about anything else. Misplaced compassion.

  3. doozer125 says:

    Honestly, it looks like 99% of them are over the age of 55…and that’s being kind.

  4. doozer125 says:

    It has nothing to do with their age, per se, but that they seem to be left-over relics of another age…the 1960’s. It’s like when my 70 yr old mother looks at me and says, “I think women should be priests”, she seems to think it’s some new, shocking, progressive statement. It’s not. It’s a misguided, outdated, backward way of thinking that was “radical” fifty years ago. That’s why I think people keep bringing up their age.

  5. Steven says:

    First laugh…announcer’s reference to them as “catholic faithful.” RIIIGGHHT!
    Second laugh…”Jesus challenged the hierarchy of His day.” Well guess what? Jesus was God, and we’re not.
    To paraphrase Toy Story – “they are a sad, sorry, little crowd”

  6. eulogos says:

    I am over the age of 55, about to turn 61, to be exact.
    Darn it, it is their ideas which are wrong, not their ages.
    When these folks were younger, they were referring to the biological solution for “the people who don’t like the changes in the church.”
    So have a little humility. I think I can pretty much guarantee that some subset of your children’s generation, will be saying the same thing about YOU someday.
    Everybody winds up on the wrong side of history at some point. I think it is truth that one wants to be on the right side of, whatever “history” might be doing at that particular moment.
    Susan Peterson

  7. PeterK says:

    I can’t believe the reporter called them “Catholic faithful”. If they want what they want they are free to leave the Church and form their own. This clearly shows that the teaching of Catholic catechism has been severely lacking during the past 30 years

  8. Andy F. says:

    One word: Protestants

  9. Alan Aversa says:

    Was that last lady interviewed in the video seriously equating the Pharisees with the Catholic Church’s hierarchy?

    Also, I think this is only the beginning of what will be a big schism or purification of the U.S. Catholic church. God’s will be done.

  10. Geoffrey says:

    “The Biological Solution is on full display here.”

    I’ll say! Bring on World Youth Day Madrid!!!

  11. jflare says:

    Two of the people that they interviewed mentioned something about a greater degree of inclusiveness for women and gays. I find that quite odd really; how do you “include” women and gays more than we already do? I don’t think the Church can help them much if their idea of “inclusiveness” means making believe that homosexual behavior and lifestyles are OK. Then again, I thought John Paul II addressed the issue of women’s ordination back in the 90’s. What part did I miss?

    I too noticed, though, that those they interviewed and those they showed in this video have been around a minimum of 15 years longer than me. I’m not as young anymore either…..

  12. It’s beautiful to be old, if you’ve been faithful. Nothing more beautiful than an old religious who’s spent plenty of time praying and working for God; the light of eternity shines through someone like that.

    These people, on the other hand, don’t look like normal people minding their own business and growing old as best they can, or like people well on their way to sainthood. They look like they are putting on a show and think they are super-great; but they’re not, so they look silly and a bit pathetic. Even now, they don’t wise up; and even according to their own stated values, they are not living out their ideals.

    It’s sad to be that old and still not have found yourself, to be consumed with playing peer games that only a very small group of peers cares about. (And it’s sad to be so close to King Books, yet be wasting your time shuffling around an auditorium instead.)

  13. anilwang says:

    Steven WRT ”Jesus challenged the hierarchy of His day.”

    Not only that, even though he challenged them, he stated that they sat on Moses’ seat and that people should do what they say (not what they do).

  14. Andreas says:

    It is unfortunate that the ‘reporter’ covering this catholics For Change story didn’t provide equal time in the same story to the meeting of Catholic faithful on the other side of town. I am certain that a more balanced counterpoint between the two would have proven most enlightening to viewers.

  15. Central Valley says:

    Where is the charity of the bloggers? These poor folks are refugess from the three days of darkness in Los Angeles. With Cardinal Mahony out and Archbishop Gomez in, these poor nomads are just looking for a place to set up shop. LOL

  16. Widukind says:

    I do not think there is a vendetta against senior citizens here in this blog discussion. The sad thing is, they are old enough to know better. Their spiritual maturity has not kept pace with their physical maturity. They seem so blissfully oblivious that the Church has changed since their prime, and she will continue to change, all for the better. Openness to the Holy Spirit, leads one not to empty liberal platitudes, but to sensible understanding. He can only lead one to Christ and to His Church and to no One else. It is just basic theology. I cannot resist saying this – – but some of them seem so old, that they probably fart dust. They are good at making noise, but have no content.

  17. Marianna says:

    Observing from over here in the UK, a couple of questions spring to mind. Do these people accept the Creed, and especially Jesus’ bodily resurrection? And also – are they pro-life?

    I ask, because in the UK you find people at Mass who regard the Resurrection as some kind of metaphor for something or other, and who do not necessarily consider abortion to be wrong.

  18. In a way I feel for these people; they are products of what the clergy of their day were so often involved in and encouraged. i remember as a young priest in Milwaukee being involved in some of the ecumenical contacts, and this flavor of opinion was rampant there. Friends like then Fr. Joe Perry and Msgr. Bruskewicz being the lone wolves in a sea of far out leftist relevance. After awhile I just stopped going to any of these events thinking that the return to a more orthodox stance was not going to happen. And then the priest scandals hit, and it began to dawn on some that this was not created in a vacuum. Thank God that Mother Angelica and EWTN came along and provided a more authentic message and flooded the air waves with religious sobriety and sanity. Frankly that is why she is so hated by the leftist crew. My aging mother used to watch EWTN frequently. Her friend a retired Charity sister would visit and chide her for watching that stuff. Quote: “our order is forbidden to watch EWTN! My mother would respond with: well at least she wears a habit! To which the response was ” Oh Anne you and the Pope!” By the way that order has no members younger than 50 even as I write this comment. The many comments expressed in the comments box are not about age but about a dying breed of people who have been misled, and yes, many of the clergy and hierarchy of that day were profoundly responsible for this lack of catechesis and screwy opinion. And oh yeah the Sister Rita Relevants of that era were on the bandwagon.

  19. Norah says:

    Tick tock tick tock

  20. geoff jones says:

    No one is bagging out old people as far as I can tell here. A lot of people in the Trad movement are old and grey too. It’s the fact that there weren’t any young people there. It’s the fact that children raised in an “inclusive” catholic environment have completely and utterly deserted the faith.

    The only young people who have stuck around are those raised in a conservative or traditional environment. (and, interestingly enough, with devout fathers)

    Don’t get me wrong, we trads are in deep, deep trouble as well. I think we’d be lucky to have a 50% retention rate amongst our young today.

  21. ipadre says:

    Was there anyone under the age of 70? Not counting the young reporter who said there were “thousands” gathered. He must have felt like he was visiting a nursing home at recreation time. And the thousands, would that be something like the thousands that gather for the Angelus every week, or the thousands who gather for the Papal Audience every week? NOT!

  22. stgemma_0411 says:

    I’m trying to find an historical context for this type of heterodoxy, but I can’t seem to find it.

  23. Fr Deacon Daniel says:

    Looks like a Lutheran Confirmation Class reunion…

    Keep building the City of God there and turn those tears into dancing…just be careful with those recent hip replacements!

  24. benedetta says:

    That part about the tassels, wow that made a lot of sense. People and our leaders where I am really need to hear that, which would immediately turn back parish closures, lack of faith, no vocations, indifference, etc., if only they would adjust their tassels. That should work. Pretty much everything else they agitate for has been done here except for the tassels, so why not go the whole way. Local leaders: get on it. Break out the sewing kits. With the shortened tassels we all will feel a whole lot better. God bless them for telling it like it is. With their long red stoles.

  25. benedetta says:

    Oh I do respect the faithful elderly. When their time comes (and the time can come at any time regardless of age) I know that for some who have led lives of profound trust in the Church, even through the weirdness, eventually and through prayer they will be of great support to those of us who remain. They do not pretend to have all of the answers for what the Church “should” do. They would not pass judgment on others who disagreed as being one thing or another. And they do listen with great respect to what young people have to say. Not to correct or change but just call them back to prayer, with patience and hope. They will never be featured on the local news. But their actions are quite powerful even if seemingly old, feeble and infirm. And they are by no means unaware of the times, out of date, not with it. I realize that the dictatorship of relativism views them in terms of the price tag for their medical treatment and care, or a regulatory “quality of life” and that euthanasia, dressed as compassion has designs on their heads.

    But we should admit to the full reality (Fr. Z certainly does here when he recalls priests who elderly and thanks them for their service and asks for prayers). The full reality is that this collection of oldsters does not speak for all oldsters.

    And I disagree that it is inevitable that one generation will necessarily be pitted against another, that this is natural. Even secular studies and commentary will tell you that is simply not true, and further that it is not a good thing for a society or culture, any culture. It does not have to be that way merely because it is played out in recent American history. There can be other good contexts for coming of age, for realizing youthful power, for progress, for incorporating what is new. To even take a look at what the media pushes and markets and sells as “popular culture” and attribute it to real choices of young people is preposterous. Given a real choice, which assumes knowledge, the great majority of young people would choose no such thing. There is quite a lot out there in the way of secular knowledge, culture and the arts that never remotely hits the media establishment. And even if it did make a blip that is obviously not enough alone to be able to say that people are enabled to choose and sort through, whether it comes to culture or even consumer products. Every parent, aunt or uncle, grandparent is well aware that if they want to present even one thing that is not on the msm radar to a young person that a effort will be required beyond, would you like, peas or carrots…

  26. kal says:

    So, who was presiding at this Mass? Was it a Catholic priest, priestess? I would hope none of the Archdiocese of Detroit priests were there after the stern warning from His Excellency.

  27. Peggy R says:

    The local Call to Action gray-haireds called their conferences “synods” in the same vein as this “council” group.

    They also recently changed their name. They’ve kept their most amusing acronym “FOSIL”–quite fitting, no? They have historically called themselves “Fellowship of Southern Illinois Laity.” Now, they’ve renamed themselves “Faithful of Southern Illinois.” Yeah, right. In photos I’ve seen not one person under 60.

  28. s i says:

    This is why I hate the local media in Detroit…..”t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d-s of people came here” (NOT!). Detroit is so hurting for money, they’ll take any reservation from any group for Cobo Hall. And where is the coverage of Call to Holiness to contrast this joke of a council? Nowhere to be found – typical media coverage here…

    “farting dust” – I always get a good chuckle here!

  29. Patti Day says:

    These people are on the brink of the grave. I pray that the Holy Spirit was present and at work at Cobo Hall over the weekend, and that at least some will be awakened before it is too late.

  30. irishgirl says:

    Why does the media always focus on the dissidents when it comes to the Church?
    I’m over 55, and I don’t go along with anything these people believe in!

  31. James Joseph says:

    Everytime I see this breed of garbage I immediately think of the Psalm upbraiding the congregation murmering in the desert against the priesthood, “Harden not your hearts as at Meribah and Massah in the desert.”

  32. Elizabeth D says:

    I’m sad and indignant too, and I think Psalm 95 is appropos, but it’s not right to call people, for whom Jesus (who says “you are my friends if you keep my commands”) shed all His blood, a “breed of garbage.”

  33. mike cliffson says:

    “But Richard ! For WALES!”

  34. Centristian says:

    A couple of the women interviewed made special mention of the alleged “pomp and circumstance” in the Church employed by…???…whose “tassels are too long”. It’s clearly a swipe at the pope’s own restoration of solemnity to papal ceremonies and at a small minority (alas) of prelates and clergy who are following the Holy Father’s example. Interesting that a congregation of laity wearing stoles should wax indignant over an alleged overemphasis on vestments by the pope and certain clergy.

  35. MichaelJ says:

    This is from the detroit free press:

    Defying Archbishop of Detroit Allen Vigneron, a Catholic priest from Ferndale led a Mass today in Cobo Center that was organized by the American Catholic Council, a controversial umberalla group of liberal Catholics. And dozens of Catholic priests and deacons from metro Detroit attended the Mass, said organizers.

    The priest’s name was Father Wormtongue. OK, I made that last part up, but it was Father Wurm

  36. Supertradmum says:

    Be kind to those of us over 60. Age has nothing to do with the heretical ideas of any groups. It is a question of obedience to the Church and a keen desire to want to be a saint and conform one’s mind and heart to the beautiful teachings of the Catholic Church. The spirit of rebellion may be found in person’s of any age.

    As to the priests who attended this “council”, they should be disciplined immediately.

  37. jesusthroughmary says:

    Nobody’s wishing death on anyone. Retirement and convalescence will be sufficient. But the fact is that the death rate is one per person, so inevitably these kooks will die off and take their poison with them. 50 years from now it is inevitable that the Church will be more traditional, more pro-life, and more Catholic. Hence the biological solution.

  38. Joseph-Mary says:

    Also keep in mind that these “faithful” were egged on by clergy and religious ‘back in the day’. I certainly have heard how there is something is wrong with you if you do not change and accept the latest innovation and etc. The orthodox faithful were ridiculed and persecuted for years and those who compromised and accepted the innovations were left like these folks. Liberal leaning folks are still encouraged in many places. My sister, who was just visiting, dressed DOWN for Mass and I commented and got the “Jesus loves us just as we are” line that we used to hear at church.

    Let us pray for the conversion for these dissenters who were told that to dissent is good and so forth; they have bought into the lie.

  39. Augustin57 says:

    Well, they made the mistake of filming their “festivities.” Now, all the good Archbishop has to do is have someone go through the video and name names of all the clergy who attended. Those who disobeyed the archbishop can have their faculties suspended, until they can successfully explain their action. If they can’t (how can they!?), then they will have to find something else to do with their lives. They’ll be OUT. Hit the road, Jack, and doncha come back no mo’, no mo’!

    This conference should make it fairly easy to do some housecleaning in the archdiocese. Wonder which priests aren’t serving the faithful by teaching what the Church teaches? Hold a conference that is against Church teaching and see who shows up, even after being warned not to go! Can it get any easier than that?! I don’t think so.

  40. Stu says:

    The local Denny’s must have made a killing on it’s Early Bird specials.

  41. Alexandros says:

    Their age only reflects the death of their movement. If their movement had any life, it would be able to recruit young people to their cause.

  42. Jayna says:

    Want good news? Watch this video. I didn’t see a single person who could possibly be younger than 50. Who do they think they’re railing against? They are the man!

  43. Andrew says:

    I visited this group’s website. The organizers of this entity are trying to usurp to themselves nothing less but full authority over the Catholic Church. They posted some kind of a “bill of rights” on their website according to which every catholic has the right, basically, to be the Pope and to advocate “democratic” change in the Church. They also claim the right to interpret Sacred Scripture. Curiously, the entity is incorporated in Naples, Florida under the name of a certain John D. Hushon who seems to have connections with other dissident groups. I don’t know, but if I felt about the Church the way these folks do, I would just start my own church. Rent some space at a local mall and invite people in. Just make sure they don’t claim the right to tell you how to run your church.

  44. Mundabor says:

    I would also question why on earth these people make such a fuss to be recognised by a church they consider wrong in the first place. If the Church is wrong on male priesthood, then the Church is clearly a fraud and has been these last 2000 years.

    Why, then, do they insist on being accepted as part of it?


  45. Stephen D says:

    It was nice to see the priest(?) striking participants with a branch. Did he proclaim anathema on their teachings and remind them that they were all effectively excommunicated too? Good man.

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