Regarding Pres. Obama’s attack and rise of our Catholic bishops…

23 Comments

1. sallyr says:

   31 January 2012 at 1:49 PM

   Fr. Z:
   Padre –

   I appreciate your wry sense of humor on this topic, but [… edited out…]

   [You seriously misread me if you think I am trying to be funny.]
2. Supertradmum says:

   31 January 2012 at 2:01 PM

   Ah yes, the Church is now involved in political activity. Of course, this is too easy. The tax exempt status has been the soft underbelly of Church independence, as any porch-light church, or a cult, such as Scientology, can claim such. Atheists and other secularists have used the argument that the Constitution does not cover such exemption, as will use the political strategy of stating that the bishops have now engaged in a frontal political move, defying their wrong idea of separation of Church and State. Such a tactic was used in the early days of both the French Revolution and the Revolt in England, with the subsequent fining and stealing, or confiscating of Church property. Too easy. The next step would be the destruction of Church buildings, as I believe that the heresies of indifferentism and eirenism (Humanae Generis, Mirari vos, and Quata Cura, as well as The Syllabus of Errors-all documents which need to be read by Catholics) are endemic. Indifferentism states, among other things, that religion and religious organizations have no say in the civic life. Eirenism wants a syncretic religion, overlooking differences, for the sake of unity.

   Sounds like a novel, but this is the logical outcome of such legislation and the philosophies behind the laws. We have seen this before happening within two generation in England, under Henry VIII and then Elizabeth I, who took control from the Church and established a State religion. We saw this in the destruction of the First Estate, the Church in France before, during and after the French Revolution. In a sense, it does not matter what the Constitution does hold, but how this grossly huge government of ours interprets it through the courts.

   What is left is either worship allowed only in buildings and not a peep of religious beliefs allowed in the public square, or the complete destruction of religion entirely. One of the reasons some of the bishops and priests have been asleep at the wheel is that they through out history for a revisionist, relativistic view and this is what they will get-a society without religion, only to be replaced by a State religion-either the Goddess of Reason of the French, or Elizabeth I as Supreme Governor of the Church. I wonder what title Obama fancies?
3. Supertradmum says:

   31 January 2012 at 2:03 PM

   apologies for many errors-threw out is one-overlook please
4. samgr says:

   31 January 2012 at 2:04 PM

   A Facebook post I got 17 hours ago shows two kids on the porch of a house that needs paint next to an artist’s rendering of something huge and white with a dozen spires and an air of gradiosity.
   Above the kids: These people pay taxes on this dilapidated home.
   Above the “church: These peple pay none.
   Underneath: Churches should not be tax exempt.
   Please press ‘like’ and ‘share’ if you believe we should TAX CHURCHES.
   By: We survived Bush. You will survive Obama.
   I got it from a couple of Staten Island Irish.
5. Bryan Boyle says:

   31 January 2012 at 2:09 PM

   I’m sure the briefs are already (and have been…nothing happens in a vacuum….) in existence. They’re just waiting for the opportune moment (it will take a little more kneading of the amorphous mass of the citizenry and indoctrination of the useful idiots before it will be seen as being able to be successfully pressed. And, they don’t have to do it in criminal or civil court…tax exemption is an administrative fiction oops determination…and would thus be handled in an IRS administrative court, as I understand it, not subject to the same rules of evidence, witnesses, etc as other proceedings. Prosecuted by an IRS lawyer, decided by an IRS judge.

   Opening shots are sometimes not as obvious as they seem. But, they were fired long ago, (comparatively speaking, based on the normal American’s attention span) during the candidacy of the current executive mansion occupant.

   IIRC, it was one of the late, non-missed leaders of the old Soviet Union who opined something to the effect that ‘Capitalists will hang themselves, and we’ll give them back the rope they sold us to do it’ or something to that effect.

   We’re reaping the whirlwind that was sowed long ago when our national conference began to seem more like the religious arm of one party with their white papers and focus on social issues and social justice versus passing on the true faith. They willingly became players in the political process; they accepted Caesar’s ducats…they should not be surprised that they’re now being handled like a political opponent. The space under the old Greyhound Bus is getting crowded. They served their purpose and helped in the deconstruction and ‘mushifying’ of most of the ‘Joe and Mary Bagodonuts’ in the pew, softening them up, as it were, for the next step.

   Words like ‘freedom of worship’ to replace ‘freedom of religion’, etc are that fine, subtle changing of meanings while seeming to sound the same as before to indicate the true direction. We’ve not seen the last maneuver in this battle. The skirmishers are out, probing. It’s Gen’l Heath, coming down the Cashtown Pike, all over again, and the only thing in between him and the town is a bunch of Cavalry.

   But, we know how THAT scrap ended up, three days later…
6. Supertradmum says:

   31 January 2012 at 2:49 PM

   You know, this time reminds me of Austria and Germany before the War, when the persecution of Jews started and some people were in denial-it can’t happen here. It can. Anywhere God is hated, persecution incrementally will happen.
7. mamajen says:

   31 January 2012 at 2:59 PM

   Yes, this is what I’m afraid of. They have managed to silence churches for so long with the threat of financial repercussions. Part of me wishes our priests and bishops would toss those concerns aside and just say what they want to, but on the other hand I wonder if we would be able to manage without the tax perks. Ugh. What a conundrum.

   Has the issue ever been explored in the Supreme Court? I wonder if tax status were revoked and a lawsuit ensued, what would happen?
8. Supertradmum says:

   31 January 2012 at 3:24 PM

   mamajen,

   All the lands would be confiscated. Note history as this has all happened before.
9. Wayne NYC says:

   31 January 2012 at 3:28 PM

   Father Z.
   Please excuse my anger and bad syntax but;
   SINESTRA DELENDA EST .
10. Stvsmith2009 says:

    31 January 2012 at 4:02 PM

    The USCCB tweeted the following (sorry I don’t have a shorter link):

    Let the current administration know the HHS contraception mandate cannot stand. Please sign and share this petition:

    https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/rescind-hhs-dept-mandate-requiring-catholic-employers-provide-contraceptivesabortifacients-their/lBxr7SdP?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
11. digdigby says:

    31 January 2012 at 4:04 PM

    “You see, you, dear reader, have been sold a lie. You have been told from every television show and comedy routine and political cartoon since you were a child that tolerant and easy-going do-your-own thing vices are willing to live and let live, and that blue-nosed intolerant angry and judgmental virtues, motivated only by hate, are seeking out vice in order to destroy harmless pleasures, and will not leave well enough alone.
    The opposite is true. Vice is intolerant of virtue and cannot stand to share the same world with it. Saints know all men are sinners and forgive all. Sinners go mad trying to pretend sin is good and goodness is sin, and condemn all.” -John C. Wright

    Vice will call itself ‘freedom’ and Envy will call itself ‘justice’ etc. It is really coming down.
12. Stvsmith2009 says:

    31 January 2012 at 4:05 PM

    Sorry about the link. You will need to copy and paste the whole link to go to sign the petition. If you see a signer by the name Gary S, that is yours truly.
13. Marcus de Alameda says:

    31 January 2012 at 4:28 PM

    If BO gets a 2nd term, the long knives will be rolled out swiftly against the Church. The progressives are plotting and will not waist the opportunity while they have the executive branch of power in their pocket.
14. Phil_NL says:

    31 January 2012 at 5:00 PM

    Expect that tax exemption to go out of the window within a decade anyway. Even if Obama won’t be re-elected (then there would certainly be a lot of people with an extreme dislike of the Church in power), there will still be ever-increasing calls to end such ‘tax-breaks’ for religious organisations. After all, there is no shortage of ‘missionary atheists’ hating every expression of religion with a vengeance, and there’s also no denying the US is on the fast lane to bankruptcy. At some point, these two facts will converge. Best plan ahead. (and if the tax exemption is the only thing we’d have to worry about, we’d be pretty lucky).
15. sallyr says:

    31 January 2012 at 5:06 PM

    Sorry for the misunderstanding – In my comment, I was referring to the three blog posts saying “the world is going to ruin, let’s watch a video.”

    However, the real point of my comment was to call attention to a very practical response we could make to this HHS mandate – supporting a bill that would reverse the HHS mandate. The US Conf. of Catholic Bishops has a link to the bill and links to help laity contact their representatives. Perhaps you don’t want to get involved in lobbying efforts, and this is why you deleted the link I had pasted in? Sorry if my link to them was against the rules – I didn’t realize there was that restriction on blog comments. However, I do think your readers would like to know that there’s a very simple way for them to contribute to a solution to the HHS mandate by supporting a strong conscience protection bill that is currently seeking sponsors.
16. sallyr says:

    31 January 2012 at 5:09 PM

    By the way, I do think directing people to a “petition” to the white house is not going to be an effective approach. The white house’s occupant doesn’t care.

    Legislators who will soon be facing re-election bids in their home districts do care – and they can be very responsive when many people contact them about a particular piece of legislation.
17. pjthom81 says:

    31 January 2012 at 10:30 PM

    Perhaps we should then reconsider whether 501c3, as a classification, is supportive of religious liberty. Isn’t it made primarily to muzzle religious organizations? It is in fact my understanding, though readers may well correct me, that the classification was created for LBJ to muzzle a specific church that REALLY didn’t like him.

    Since it appears that this is a muzzling device, it appears equally apparent to me that it is in contravention of the 1st amendment as applied. It functions as an unconstitional restraint on both freedom of religion. This renders it subject, justly, to court challenge and legislative rewriting.

    I note in passing that religious liberty as a principal has quite an agenda that it recommends. Reform of the tax laws would be a good first step.
18. mike cliffson says:

    1 February 2012 at 7:14 AM

    Ministry of love still sounds orwellian, but what a lot of the linguistic grounwork is up and running:
    What is now understood by
    victim
    hate,hate speech
    x-phobe,xphobic
    fair,unfair
    fanatic, radical, racist,
    bigot,bigoted,bigotry,
    …………..?
    the list is long.
    Thoughtcrime,anyone?
19. Mary De Voe says:

    1 February 2012 at 6:29 PM

    The Catholic Church is servant of all future generations, called “our posterity” in the Preamble of our Constitution. The Catholic Church is steward of all in its domain to care for and hand on to the next generation. You own it all and I own it all, like all public land, in joint and common tenancy. Those calling for the Catholic Church to be taxed are stewards of the Chruch property to be handed forward. The parishioners have paid their taxes as citizens. To impose taxes on their church would extort a second tax, which is taxation without representation, as one citizen has one vote but Catholic citizens will be forced to opay two taxes and enjoy only one vote.
20. Mary De Voe says:

    1 February 2012 at 6:45 PM

    @Phil_NL Atheists are not free to impose their atheism on people, because by repudiating our founding principles in our Declaration of Independence “that all men are created equal and endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights”, atheists have repudiated their own unalienable rights, forfeited their citizenship and have no legal standing in a court of law to bring suit against any citizen who recognizes our Creator endowed unalienable rights. Prayer ban is one great miscarriage of Justice. The Supreme Court said that Madalyn Murray O’Hair “could go her own way”. The newspapers and media bannered “PRAYER BAN” . Yes, you and I are tyrannized by the media. Pray for Deliverance and Divine Providence, cause boy, do we need them. Our unalienable civil rights are based on being a human being. The criterion for the objective ordering of human rights is human existence. Joseph Suarez. If you exist, you have human rights and equality, not more, not less.
21. Mary De Voe says:

    1 February 2012 at 6:56 PM

    Obamacare violates “or prohibit the free exercise thereof” the First Amendment. Obamacare extorts penalties and fines from citizens who know that they have conscience in their immortal soul. Along with free will and sovereign personhood, Obamacare violates every citizen and puts the boot on the neck of every person. If my neighbor is denied his conscience and freedom, how do I help? I want my freedom and conscience to be respected. If you do not believe in the immortal soul, you cannot believe in Creator endowed unalienable rights.
22. Mary De Voe says:

    1 February 2012 at 7:11 PM

    And while I am at it: Obamacare redefines the human person as having no conscience except what the government gives to him. GAy-marriage is the practice of LUST being redefined as LOVE and citizens being ordered by law to call LUST: LOVE. FREEDOM? Obama is at war with God. Having banned the Person of God from the public square, people have very little if any at all of FREEDOM. Obama has usurped the power to seize all private property in Executive Order 13575 Rural Councils. NOBODY comes on your private property without your invitation. Every human being HAD Habeas Corpus until the National Defense Authorization Act. Our founding principles were ratified by two-thirds of the states. Any change to our principles must be ratified by two- thirds of the states. Atheists must begin to pray to their “no god”
23. PostCatholic says:

    2 February 2012 at 7:39 AM

    We liberals have churches, too. It’s really not in our own selfish interests to question your tax exemptions. I hope we can all stick to ideology.

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