QUAERITUR: Introducing new parish families at Mass

From a reader:

It seems from parish to parish many have the custom after the closing prayer when announcements are given to ask new families or visitors to stand up and introduce themselves. It can add a bit more time to the Mass and one wonders if this is appropriate liturgically? If it is does it really help by strengthening fellowship or is it more about satisfying people’s curiosity about what’s new?

I don’t know how to answer that, since the power of your Earth’s yellow Sun has not given me psychic powers. It’s a puzzle.

I don’t have a strong feeling about this practice one way or another. It seems to me that the bulletin could be more useful for that sort of thing. Also, I wouldn’t announce anyone’s names unless they were first consulted and then consented. They could, for all I know, be in a witness protection program. They wouldn’t want lots of attention drawn to them but they still want to be registered at the parish so that they can have envelopes and contribute more easily.

Before the end of Mass? That has never seemed to me the best time for announcements.

Yes… I know I am temporizing a bit….

What do you think?

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

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  1. Supertradmum says:

    No, no, no. After Mass at coffee and doughnuts is the time for people to be introduced. Liturgy is a time to focus on God.

  2. rcg says:

    One of my favourite parishes would make sure new families were introduced at the coffee and pastries meeting after each Mass. That was a great time.

  3. lh says:

    Everyone is supposed to introduce themselves right before Mass begins at several parishes here. It makes it difficult to remain in a prayerful state.

  4. Sword40 says:

    Announcements have always been done just before the homily at our FSSP parish and just before the entrance procession at the local OF parishes. Introductions for new parish members has been done in the bulletin and at coffee after Mass.

  5. Cathy says:

    Most parishes have a social level don’t they?
    I agree with Supertradmom, this is a great place for meet and greet as well as a place for socializing among the parishioners. As well, hey, some people, for whatever reason are not comfortable in doing this and it’s not required.

  6. acardnal says:

    I agree with Supertradmum. Announcements and photos of new parishioners can be placed in the bulletin and parish website. New parishioners can meet others after Holy Mass while enjoying the donuts and coffee in the parish hall. The liturgy of the Holy Sacrifice should not be disturbed with mundane announcements of new members – even after Mass! Parishioners should be giving thanks to the Almighty at that time.

  7. AdMajoremDeiGloriam says:

    I agree. Perhaps an announcement or note in the bulletin could invite people to meet new parishioners at the gathering after Mass. New families can get a more personal welcome after the liturgy, and others can introduce themselves more easily. Maybe it’s just because I’m awkward at times, but I would feel more comfortable being introduced in a social setting. This would also encourage more parishioners to share in the ancient tradition of coffee and donuts.

  8. poohbear says:

    Is this a regional thing? I have lived in two Archdioceses and one diocese in two different states and never saw anything like this. I can’t even imagine posting pictures of parishioners in the bulletin. This seems very strange to me.

  9. johnmann says:

    It’s not so easy to introduce new members at a large parish during doughnut time. I think during announcements, which should always be after the prayer after Communion but before the dismissal, is a good time. I think it qualifies as a GIRM 90 “brief announcement.” It then makes it easier for parishioners to introduce themselves to the new arrivals during doughnut time.

    Speaking of doughnut time, as I’ve gotten more health-conscious, I’ve been wondering about healthier alternatives. It would have to be something that’s cheap, easy to eat without utensils, doesn’t require refrigeration, and most importantly, appealing enough to attract parishioners.

  10. Supertradmum says:

    Everyone in the Church should be encouraged to be quiet after Mass is over for at least 15 minutes to give thanks to God for His Presence in us.

    We have forgotten this.

  11. AnnM says:

    One of the worst experiences I ever had at Mass in America – at a parish I was visiting on a ski-ing holiday – was when the priest asked, I think before the blessing, for all visitors to stand up and introduce themselves. Maybe this has something to do with culture (I’m not an American) but I loathe drawing attention to myself in this way, unless it’s in an appropriate context, such as a business meeting. I do not think Mass is an appropriate context. And this wretched (sorry) priest would just not drop it. His eye scanned over the congregation like one of those old wartime searchlights, while I cowered back in my pew. “Anyone else?” he thundered. I managed to avoid it but I complained afterwards to my American friend (who’d been quite happy doing it). She just didn’t get it. “Don’t you want to be made to feel welcome?”
    “I don’t want to be made to feel anything”, I retorted. I still hold that Mass isn’t about me, it’s about God – surely?

  12. ray from mn says:

    “No, no, no. After Mass at coffee and doughnuts is the time for people to be introduced. Liturgy is a time to focus on God.”

    The Liturgy was over. The question states “after the closing prayer?” Some folks are kind of shy and might not want to attend unless invited. What better time to introduce people when they are standing right next to you and you can invite them down for coffee ‘n donuts.

    We have way too many liturgy cops in the Catholic Church. These are the people who go histrionic when Father invites the congregation to applaud the third grader who just made an announcement about the Christmas pageant. And it was before the Final Blessing. egads!

  13. Catholicity says:

    Johnmann: One donut a week won’t kill you, but if your conscience won’t allow it I know of a cheap, non-refrigerated treat that you might really like and it will be sure to attract parishoners. Its called coffee. 8^)

  14. AnnM says:

    Sorry to chip in again quickly but I believe this is about people introducing themselves, not being introduced by someone else, though I wouldn’t much like that either.

  15. Supertradmum says:

    ray from mn, the Pope recently said something about no clapping at Masses. I shall try and find it for you.

  16. Supertradmum says:

    ray from mn,

    “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.”

    Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy, 198.

    But, I am sure he said it again recently…cannot find it yet.

  17. Supertradmum says:

    Interesting discussion on clapping on this famous blog. https://wdtprs.com/2008/07/clapping-in-church/

    Going back to introductions, why cannot people just do the polite thing and go up to strangers and ask about them? Catholics are so bad at reaching out to the new kids on the block.

  18. johnmann says:

    Catholicity, coffee and a non-coffee beverage like iced tea is a given. But that gives me an idea. Premium coffee! A mail-order brand that can even be sold by the bag on the side to fund the snacks. And maybe oatmeal raisin cookies. That’s an attractive relatively healthy alternative that’s even cheaper than doughnuts.

  19. No “puzzle” here, it’s pretty straightforward, actually. The Mass isn’t over yet, and the celebrant is calling for “new families or visitors to stand up and introduce themselves.” This is totally inappropriate, and 95 percent of the people reading this know that it is when they read it.

    The problem is not with the “liturgy police,” but that we need them at all. People are entitled to the Sacred Liturgy in the manner that the Church prescribes. It is a right. It already belongs to them, without asking permission. They shouldn’t have to get down on their hands and knees and quote chapter and verse for some narcissistic clown who should know better. If that were me he was speaking to, I’d stand up long enough to run, not walk, screaming out of that place.

    Sometimes the best answer is the obvious one.

    (Here endeth the rant.)

  20. Jason Keener says:

    I don’t care too much for this sort of thing. I was on vacation once in Virginia at a very small parish church for Sunday Mass, and the priest asked me and the other visitor to introduce ourselves and say what we were doing in town, etc. It probably wasn’t the end of the world, but I wasn’t expecting to be put on the spot like that before the final blessing. As with all things liturgical: Just Say the Black and Do the Red—Mass is better that way!

  21. Sissy says:

    Frankly, one of the thousands of reasons I was drawn to Catholicism was to get away from this sort of protestant “happy clappy” stuff. When I was first becoming Catholic, it was such a lovely relief to slip unnoticed into a quiet church, to sit undisturbed, to kneel and pray, without being greeted with chatty invitations to introduce myself. But I’m a hermit at heart.

    Thank you for the link about clapping during Mass, Supertradmum. A couple of weeks ago, the new young priest asked us to give a rousing round of applause to the altar girls for doing such a bang-up job all summer. I had to get out my smelling salts.

  22. johnmann says:

    Supertradmum, agree Catholics are bad at reaching out to new kids or staying in touch with old ones.

    On the clapping, during the announcements at the end of Mass it’s announced that “This is John’s last day as our long-time altarserver. He’ll be leaving for the seminary so we wish him well.” Inappropriate announcement? Still no clapping?

  23. Bea says:

    IH and SuperTradMum
    Agree wholeheartedly
    After Mass is time to give Thanks to Our Lord and with Whom we are still conversing with.

  24. RichR says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if this suggestion to introduce new people at Mass came from the liturgy committee or the Parish Council. I would also bet a steak dinner that if you ask the people who pushed for this what liturgical references they have or what liturgical authors they’ve read lately, they will look at you like you’re crazy. Too many people want their parishes to compete with the Kiwanis Club.

  25. capebretoner says:

    I attended Mass this past Sunday at Saint Mary’s Cathedral Basilica in Halifax NS. We were basically ambushed on 2 fronts as we entered the church asking if we would please wear name tags and if we would please join everyone next Sunday for coffee after Mass. We don’t live in Halifax so we politely refused on both counts.

    SO, thinking this was kinda weird in the first place, Mass starts and we get to the penitential rite. Instead of being asked to “call to mind our sins”, we are invited to spend “as long as it takes, even going through aisles if necessary” to meet all the people around us and to discuss with them what we are going to pray for at this Mass and ask if we can pray for them, including their intentions with ours so to speak, and at the same time introduce ourselves to our fellow “community members” and we were reminded again of coffee next week. There was quite a period of time allowed for this meet and greet, and it turned into a surreal party like atmosphere. The sermon was unreal; “the presider”, as he called himself, basically said that anyone who supports tradition is like a Pharisee and went on and on explaining how things have to change with the times etc etc. This was one of the most bizarre experiences I have ever had while attending Mass, and at the Archbishop’s church no less. Next time in Halifax, my family and I will attend Mass elsewhere………or maybe we’ll just head to the Kiwanis Club and hang out there instead. I honestly don’t get why they do these things at Mass…….

  26. bernadettem says:

    This is just another Protestant innovation that has been brought into the Church. I attended a very traditional parish, it was OF, however the priest had around 30 young boys as servers each Mass. He got ill and had to leave and the new priest changed everything. First thing was girls serving, which should have been a warning as to things to come.

    The priest would ask all new visitors to stand up and we were to applaud them. On one Sunday he went around the church, during Mass and asked several members who spoke another language than English to sing a song in their native language.

    This disturbed me so much that I would never attend there again. Thank God I now attend a wonderful traditional parish and the priest faces ad orientem. Everyone is quiet during and after Mass and confessions are held before each Mass.

    The rubics are followed correctly and the preaching is also great.

  27. APX says:

    I would absolutely loathe it if this was the practice at my parish. I don’t want to be noticed at Mass. I like to blend in and not have attention drawn to me. When I was new to my parish, I hated it when someone would say something to me such as, “I noticed you during Mass” or “You sit in pew X”. For many weeks after I was mentally distracted by the thought that people were watching me during Mass and judging me on whether or not I was doing everything correctly. I have an irrational fear of being judged. I can literally feel people behind me staring at me and hear them judging me. I know they’re not, but it feels like it. Granted, I know most people aren’t like me, but you don’t know who is and who isn’t. It’s best to err on the side of caution.

    If you see someone new at Mass, wait until after and go up to them outside of the nave (I also loathe when people come up to me while I’m knelt down after Mass praying and they want to visit with me.) and introduce yourself and offer to introduce them to other people.

  28. Charivari Rob says:

    Well, no parish I can think of around here goes to that extreme. At one parish, during announcements, they’ll ask visitors to stand up (birthdays or anniversaries, too) but no introductions – folks can introduce themselves after.

    It never ceases to amaze me to see so frequently the juxtaposition of comments along the lines of “such-and-such is Protestant stuff” and “if Catholics want to do such-and-such, there’s coffee-and-donut time after Mass”.

    Most parishes I’ve lived in or visited regularly don’t have a coffee hour. One did – and it was an innovation at that time. I’ll admit that most of those parishes were either so crowded/populous/busy that there was no time for coffee hour as the parking lot had to be cleared promptly for the next Mass – or – so sparsely populated that coffee hour could be catered with a small thermos. Frankly, though, and laying practical considerations aside – the vibe in those places was that coffee hour was stereotypically Protestant.

    Father Z., if you’re ever desperately bored and at a loss for a poll topic, I’d love to see a poll along the lines of “Does your parish have time & space for a weekly Sunday post-Mass coffee hour (or multiple hours), if so – does it have such an event, and if so – is it actually functional/social?”

  29. Michelle F says:

    I am tired of Masses that focus on celebrating people instead of worshiping God, and I think that is what is going on at the Mass mentioned by Fr. Z’s reader.

    Announcements at the end of Mass are part of “housekeeping,” and they should be focused on business.

    If the parish feels the need to draw attention to new parishioners, they should “welcome” them with an announcement in the bulletin. If the parish really wants to put the new parishioners on the spot, they can have a coffee-and-donuts social in the parish hall once a month at the end of the month so they display all of the people who have joined the parish during the month.

    For visitors, they can have a guest book for them in the vestibule and/or visitor contribution envelopes in the pews (I’ve seen both of these done).

    For what it’s worth, one of the many things I like about the Catholic Church is Catholics don’t normally accost new parishioners or visitors. Whenever I do find one of those needy/clingy “social” type parishes, I avoid it like the plague.

  30. anilwang says:

    Besides being inappropriate, I don’t see any value in it.

    If people are shy, this would scare them away. If they are not shy, they would respond to a simple reminder that “all are invited for refreshments in the parish hall after service” (assuming the parish has such a get together event) or “if you’re new, please introduce yourself to the priest after mass” or “if you’re new, please fill in your contact information and drop it off in the box near the entrance so one of our parish welcoming group can make you feel at home” or even “Remember that we are members of the Body of Christ. Once you leave the Church be sure to say ‘hi’ to someone new and wish them well”. And if even if they are shy, the would eventually respond to one of these….

  31. VexillaRegis says:

    I’m happy to live in the Old World, where no one would ever dream of introducing new people during mass! This is an example of what we would consider to be an overly social behaviour – one of the biggest cultural differences between americans and europeans. But we love you dearly anyway ;-) !

  32. Phil_NL says:

    I see no need for introductions whatsoever. In fact, were it suggested to me, I’d go to another parish in a heartbeat. The last thing I’d need is every single parishioner knowing who I am – fellow Catholics they may be, who’s to say that such info will be used wisely? (catholic co-worker to non-catholic boss: “You know, are you certain about this new guy? We attend the same chrch, but he never goes to communion….”).
    Let the introductions come on a one-by-one basis if the new people so desire, or not if they don’t. A certain amount of anonimity is by far the best defense against the local gossips (unless you’re in a small town, ofc). Not to mention plenty of people simply dislike the social demands people – invariably those with a lot more spare time on their hands – place on them.

  33. pelerin says:

    We in England often say that what they do in America is copied a few years later here. (It is now normal in shops for the check out girls to say ‘ hi there’ and ‘how are you’ to complete strangers something which years ago would have been unthinkable) I sincerely hope this practise of newcomers having to introduce themselves at Mass does not cross the pond. There is no danger of this in my parish but if I was away and attending another parish and this happened I think I would disappear under the pew with embarassment. I agree with VexillaRegis and am happy to live in the Old World.

  34. Imrahil says:

    Speaking of doughnut time, as I’ve gotten more health-conscious, I’ve been wondering about healthier alternatives. It would have to be something that’s cheap, easy to eat without utensils, doesn’t require refrigeration, and most importantly, appealing enough to attract parishioners.

    White sausages, pretzel, and wheat beer. (The latter had better have some refrigeration, though.)

    Half-joke, half-serious. The tradition around here.

    However: If you actually have health problems, that’s another story; but it has always been a sign at least of Catholic populaces, if not the Church herself, – and to me, in this world of ours to which health-consciousness forms an ersatz morality, a quite sympathetic sign – to be distinctly un-health-conscious in feasting.

  35. Imrahil says:

    Sorry for the inverting. Should be closed after the first paragraph.

  36. Marie Teresa says:

    the priest asking visitors stand up or speak out – TACKY! EMBARRASSING!

    a year or so ago, our pastor started asking newcomers to introduce themselves just prior to the final blessing. We have a tourist or two every Sunday, so it’s become a feature of each Mass.

    More weirdness … he recently began adding a very poignant, husky “Bless you” at the end of his Homily which has no apparent connection to the Homily he’s just delivered. It’s phony – there’s no genuine emotion attached, and he’s certainly not choking down emotion.

    But then again, one innovation would be like one potato chip … or one cockroach or one mouse.

  37. irishgirl says:

    Reading these comments makes me glad that I go to a TLM chapel.
    We don’t have any of this ‘introduction’ nonsense.
    If there are new people who come, then we’ll see them after Mass (of course it depends on the weather, because the vestibule in tiny and so everyone goes outside to talk).
    We don’t have a ‘coffee and doughnuts’ social hour, either. Our Mass is at 12:30 in the afternoon, so the day is pretty much ‘gone’, and no one really wants to hang around, with the neighborhood around the chapel being pretty run-down. Everybody pretty much ‘scatters’ and heads for home when Mass lets out.
    I used to travel quite a bit in Canada and in Europe, as well as a few places in the USA. But I never encountered any kind of ‘stand up and introduce yourself’ thing at any of the Masses I attended.
    I’m rather a shy person by nature, and so I prefer to be like ‘the fog on little cat feet’ and be as hidden as possible when at Mass.
    I don’t go to Mass to focus on man….I go to worship God.

  38. Joan M says:

    Here in the West Indies I have had to suffer through some of that foolishness, too. It seems that specific priests love to either have people introduce themselves to their neighbors in the pews before Mass starts, or invite visitors to stand and be applauded at the end of the announcements. I detest both.

    Once, when I was at Mass in a church in Tobago, I couldn’t get away with silently sitting and ignoring the invitation to stand – there was no resident priest there, so they only had Mass when a priest came from Trinidad. The priest who came that weekend had been my parish priest some years prior, so he knew me very well and knew that I was a visitor there. I felt like strangling him!

    I really, really, wish that priests and the lay people who inflict there ideas on us would stop doing that!

    As a Catholic, as far as I am concerned, every Catholic Church in the world is my home. I do not need to be introduced or welcomed as if I was a stranger! Just leave me alone to worship God. And I don’t need to be directed to a pew – I can find a place to kneel quite fine, thank you! If anyone wants to smile or speak to me, when I am leaving the church after Mass is completely over is the time to do that. I’ve never been to any church, anywhere in the world, where there were coffee & donuts after Mass.

  39. Clemens Romanus says:

    I despise this practice; however, I believe it’s allowed in the current Book of Blessings (which should be completely overhauled).

    “1931 The welcome of new parishioners, according to the circumstances, may take place occasionally at the Sunday Mass, or at another public celebration.

    1932 When the welcome takes place at Mass, the pastor presents the new parishioners to the people after the greeting. If desired, the priest may invite the persons to stand at their places or come before the congregration. After the new parishioners have been presented the people may express their welcome by applause or in some other suitable way.

    1933 A petition for the new parishioners should be included i the general intercessions. The following petition may be used:
    For N.N. and N.N., that they may always be welcome in our parish family, we pray to the Lord.”

  40. VexillaRegis says:

    @Clemens: WHAT!?

  41. Clemens Romanus says:

    Yeah, sorry, it’s a related topic – not quite what the OP was asking about. It’s in the Book of Blessings, Order for the Welcoming of New Parishioners.

  42. After the Ite Missa est, in the vestibule, far far away from the people that wish to pray after Mass….that’s where the introductions are best done…

  43. JacobWall says:

    As per the earlier comments on this post, coffee and doughnuts, (or a healthier equivalent,) AFTER mass sounds like the ideal place for introductions. This after-mass get-together should be in an appropriate place so that it leaves the nave of the church quiet for those praying for however long they need it. E.g. on the yard or patio outdoors, or in the basement (provided that sound from the basement is at least somewhat muffled.) This could work well for several reasons:

    1) It doesn’t interfere with the Mass or try to be a part of the Mass
    2) It leaves the nave quieter for those praying after Mass – if everyone gets into the habit of clearing out to go for their refreshments, it would actually help move the chatters out of the nave
    3) It allows newcomers to be introduced at their comfort level (i.e. they can talk to just one or two new people at a time)
    4) It’s a very natural setting for people to get to know each other, if they so choose (we don’t go to Mass for this reason, but it’s far more appropriate than trying to incorporate “getting to know each other” and “friendly” elements into the mass)

    My opinion is that Catholics could do much more coffee and doughnuts after Mass. I think it would remove a lot of those “let’s make Mass more laid-back” compulsions. “We need to sing happy birthday” – at coffee and doughnuts; “I want to greet 25 people during the ‘sign of the Peace'” – leave it at 2, you can talk to the others at coffee and doughnuts – “I want to play folk-songs at Church” – great, pull out your guitar at coffee and doughnuts (at least that way people can leave without feeling too bad about it); “I like to talk to everyone very loudly and laugh after Mass, even though someone right beside me is praying” – just head to the refreshments, and there be as merry as you please; “I’m a gossip and I want to find out all about the new people” – easy, you can offer them a coffee and one of the nanaimo bars you made yesterday as an excuse to strike up conversation – etc., etc.

    It might also encourage people to do a bit more serious fasting before Mass; most people are lazy, and knowing that they will be able to satisfy a bit of their appetite immediately after Mass without having to drive home, prepare lunch, etc. might make it a little easier. (I’m all for the idea that the Church should make things harder for Catholics, but, you know, it’s just another possible plus of the coffee and doughnuts.)

    I’m not saying that all these things would happen automatically with introducing coffee and doughnuts, but it might be a good way to encourage them.

    I’ve only been to one Catholic Church in Anglo North America where there were coffee and doughnuts after; after praying briefly in the nave (in peace and quiet!) I headed out to the foyer and chatted with a few people (and enjoyed coffee and pastries.) It seemed to work well. In parts of Mexico they often have quesadillas outside on the patio afterwards, and this serves the same purpose.

    All the non-Catholic churches I’ve been to actually do the refreshments afterwards. In one, the priest sternly told the congregation to head to the basement for socializing, reminding them that people were praying, and began ushering them out. I think this is one of the few areas we could learn something important from our non-Catholic neighbours.

  44. Pax--tecum says:

    The NO is already to much centered on the people, on the congregation, instead of God. Announcements should be made in the parish bulletin, not during Mass, and never after receiving Holy Communion. It should be quiet so we can pray, adore, give thanks to God.

  45. Minnesotan from Florida says:

    Is it still the law and still relevant? Namely, that the obligation to assist at Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation must be met by presence at a Mass in a church or public or semipublic oratory. This is a vestige, as I have been taught, of the idea that there is such a thing as a Lord’s Day Assembly, a thing which is indeed primarily given to the celebration of Holy Mass but which is also in some way a meeting of the community. Thus, keeping in touch with one’s fellow-parishioners, welcoming newcomers, and showing hospitality to visitors, inquirers, travelers, and strangers is in some way “a part of Mass” on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, is it not? Where and how this should be done would seem to be a matter of prudential judgment.

    Secondly, I am sympathetic to private meditation and thanksgiving after Mass (although fifteen minutes seems a bit long, especially if Masses are “every hour” – unfortunately a rarer thing), but perhaps one should bear in mind that the liturgical instruction is ITE (GO).

  46. AnnAsher says:

    For the record I hate the practice. I never respond. Recently we were visitors and there came the question… And my seven year old raised his hand and announced us before I could suppress him! That’s not why I hate it … I just do.

  47. Imrahil says:

    Dear @Minnesotan-in-Florida,

    that it is the law that one has to attend a Sunday Mass should induce that this Holy Mass should not be extended too much, leaving the people in the pews sitting around and wondering when, just when, it will be finished. As I noted before, I’m not for making life harder for Catholics. As it were, dear @anilwang, I’d think a “Remember that we are members of the Body of Christ. Once you leave the Church be sure to say ‘hi’ to someone new and wish them well” approach unnecessarily moralizing, and a bit like “shyness is sinful”.

    For this, it’d be helpful if there are really long announcements (to which I’m indifferent, as the rest is concerned) such as introducing new parishioners with maybe some interview etc. etc. would necessarily bring with (or, we once had a priest read out the last Parish Council’s session protocol, but with his very slow voice which even for the Gospel was a bit overdoing it, and did not even offer us to sit down again), then the priest should give the blessing beforehand, maybe even say something as “As far as your duty is concerned, you may go but I’d of course appreciate it if you stay for etc. etc.”.

    If that is liturgically impossible (I don’t know), I take this to mean that the liturgical legislator meant the announcements to be short.

    Around here, parishioners actually do go out for the chattering. Not saying that not somebody or other say a kind word or two within the Church (in a way that doesn’t disturb the praying people), but still, there is no plenty chattering within the Church. If that has arisen somewhere, it should of course be suppressed.

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