“New Evangelization”, you say?

“New Evangelization”, you say?

I’ve some New Evangelization for you right here!

For your Brick by Brick file comes this from the Archdiocese of Miami.

Old form of Mass attracts new generation

Plenty of young adults attend weekly Mass in Extraordinary Form in Miami

CORAL GABLES | Joshua Hernandez is a former Protestant who credits the traditional Latin Mass for his conversion to Catholicism.

Raised to be anti-Catholic, Hernandez began to look for a Christian denomination with historical relevance and formal liturgical practice. Though he thought Catholicism seemed too ritualistic, his first stop in his search for a church was attending a Mass to “get it out of the way.”

“It all clicked,” he said, when he saw the Latin Mass “in all its glory.”  [Sounds about right.]

Now he is a regular attendee at the Extraordinary Form Latin Mass celebrated each Sunday at 9 a.m. at Sts. Francis and Clare Mission in Edgewater.

Likewise, his girlfriend, Vida Tavakoli, knew she had found her home in the Catholic Church when she first attended Latin Mass in England.

Formerly an atheist, her aversion toward religion changed at the end of her college career, when she became a Protestant. During her post-collegiate travels she became resolute in converting to Catholicism after attending a Missa Cantata, or sung Mass, in the parish of her favorite author, J.R.R. Tolkien, a devout Catholic who penned the “Lord of the Rings” series.

Though the homilies, the first reading and a translation of the Gospel are said in the vernacular, the prayers at the Extraordinary Form of the Mass are chanted in Latin, in the Church’s traditional Gregorian form.

When she heard Latin hymns coming from the choir loft, Tavakoli said, it felt like “hearing angels on high.”

She was mesmerized. “It truly is extraordinary,” she said. “There is something beautiful and sacred about this form of the Mass.”

Many of those in attendance each Sunday at Sts. Francis and Clare are, in fact, young adults like Hernandez and Tavakoli, younger Catholics who did not grow up attending Mass in Latin. Their attendance is part of a national trend, as the number of Masses offered in the Extraordinary Form in the U.S. rose from approximately 60 in 1991 to just over 400 in 2010.

Miami’s traditional Latin Mass community has been served by Father Joseph Fishwick for 600 consecutive Sundays over the past 17 years. Father Fishwick, who grew up in South Florida and attended the University of Miami, remembers attending Mass as a child when the Tridentine Rite was the norm.


Read the rest there.

I’ll bet a lot of you readers you there have had similar experiences of the older form of Holy Mass.


About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in Benedict XVI, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, New Evangelization, Our Catholic Identity, SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.


  1. Priam1184 says:

    The Lord of the Rings in many ways may have been the greatest Catholic work of art since the Divine Comedy.

  2. APX says:

    The TLM when done properly and with flow and reverence is beautiful. The TLM when done with rubrical errors and lacks flow which detracts from the reverence, it doesn’t help me lift my mind and heart to God.

    As much as I love the TLM, I don’t like how it’s being portrayed as always being this heavenly flowing Mass of reverence, and the NO is this irreverent hootenhanny Mass. Rather than moan and complain about the NO, we should all be doing the best we can to restore it’s reverence and how it’s really supposed to be celebrated according to Vatican II. Chant, Latin, Ad Orientem, beautiful vestments, communion kneeling and on the tongue, etc, are all things proper to the NO. The reality is, as it the NO is what’s most attended and most celebrated. We should work at enriching it rather than moaning, complaining, and making fun of it, which I think might actually qualify as a sacrilege of some sort.

  3. New Sister says:

    I wonder if he first saw a low or high Mass? I am going to guess High Mass — taking Protestants to a Low Mass first is tough. Too much silence for them to “get it”.

    My first TLM (4 years after my Confirmation) was a Solemn High Mass, and indeed I can say as this man did, “it all clicked”. I was awe-filled and trembling as I approached the altar rail. Had someone told me at that moment to stand for Holy Communion, I do not think I could have done so. This awesome Liturgy impelled me to my knees!!

    I have watched kids who have never been to Mass at all — very poor, fatherless children, who were with their grandmother that weekend and at their first Mass — attend a TLM and become awe-struck by it.

  4. wolfeken says:

    Father Fishwick is a wonderful priest. I am sad to see he will be retiring, but he sure does deserve the rest.

    One of the lessons Saint Francis and Clare in Miami has shown is that the faithful will show up when the traditional Latin Mass is every Sunday morning. Not on the 3rd Sunday at 6 p.m., or the 2nd and 4th Sundays at 1:30 p.m. But each and every Sunday morning, when normal human beings go to church.

    This community also has the advantage of a very good priest, a social hour after the Mass, and dedicated schola members and servers in a beautiful setting with parking in a city. I can’t wait to return.

  5. incredulous says:

    Wow, the Lord does have His ways. After attending two low masses at the SSPX church in greater Fort Lauderdale and reading too much dialog over Canon Law regarding the acceptability of taking Holy Communion when there are 30 alternates (it’s a great place for Catholicism) in a 20 mile radius… I wanted a diocesan Extraordinary Form of the Mass so I could in good conscious receive all the sacraments. I found San Francisco y Santa Clara had one and drove the 30 miles with my daughter to attend. Then to see Fr. Z post this article 3 days after seeing all the youth as well as old timers and the tweeners at this mass is another punch in the gut and wake up call. (My 15 year old daughter loved the mass too.)

    Outside of this ’63 born Catholic never attending a Latin mass and the patient Father explaining the proper way to receive the Lord [blush], it was a truly moving and sacred experience. The hair on the back of my neck stood up during the entire mass being in the presence of Christ for what seems like the first time in my life.

    Reading Father Z, listening to a lot of Voris and then the Priest’s homily regarding the challenges we as Catholics will face in the coming years, I’m starting to see what God has called me to do.

    Our family is going through a very tough time because I was a really bad Catholic. I am so happy to have found the EF of the mass and pray that submit my whole being to Heavenly Father.

  6. Cranky Old Man says:

    I have heard and indeed occasionally offered the criticisms of the Novus Ordo to which APX refers. Two things come to mind: (1) They are trivial and tame compared to the scorn and contempt with which the old Latin Mass is met among those who sometimes unaccountably despise it. (2) I have seen criticism of the Novus Ordo which I might imagine shows insufficient knowledge, poor judgment or questionable taste, but those are a long way from sacrilege.

    There are in the main two kinds of folks who regularly attend the old Mass. Some, such as myself, positively prefer it, have never embraced the Novus Ordo and would not choose the Nous Ordo over the old Mass no matter how well it was celebrated. The other group, probably just as large, is made up of Catholics who were regular Novus Ordo Mass-goers, sometimes for years, among whom a feeling gradually took hold that there was something missing in Catholic worship. They eventually found themselves at the old Mass, in large part because it provides stability and reverence. I have spoken to a lot of these people. APX wants them to try to restore to the Novus Ordo the “missing elements” in Catholic worship, an ad orientem posture, Communion kneeling and on the tongue, Latin, Chant, etc. Many of these folks I spoke with tried that, sometimes over and over again. They were met with reactions ranging from indifference to fury and were set straight at once:

    * There is no problem.
    * This is what the Council wanted.
    * You really have to take this up with Sister Jane, our Pastoral Associate for Liturgy.
    * You have a very poor understanding of the pilgrim nature of the People of God.
    * Change would upset the congregation. [my personal favorite]
    * Your dissatisfaction indicates a problem with my authority. You should learn obedience.

    And those are just a couple. In short, when it comes to liturgy, there are many practitioners of the new clericalism (ironically, not only clerics, but religious and lay elites as well) who either don’t know he difference between bread and stones or who simply don’t care. They won’t be with us forever, but the impression I gather from my former Novus Ordo-going friends is that there is not much hope for changing their minds–or practices–while they are here.

  7. wmeyer says:

    But, APX, all too often, the NO does have more in common with a hootenanny than with a Missa Cantata. I have yet to find a NO Mass which approaches the level of reverence which is present at every TLM I have attended. I have yet to find an NO Mass where there were not many dressed more for the beach or a school game than for Mass. I have yet to find an NO Mass where there not at least several women in highly immodest dress.

    Yes, we need to bring reverence to the NO, as there are not sufficient priests (yet) trained in the EF. But to harp on a point which I always do stress: We need adult catechism classes. We have suffered 45+ years of little or no catechesis. These uber-casual Masses are the result.

  8. Supertradmum says:

    Why are people converted through the TLM? Simple answer-as this form of the Mass takes the attention of our senses and our souls off of ourselves and focuses the mind, heart and soul on God. That is the purpose of worship.

  9. StWinefride says:

    “…as the number of Masses offered in the Extraordinary Form in the U.S. rose from approximately 60 in 1991 to just over 400 in 2010”.

    From Michael Davies – Short History of the Roman Mass (http://www.romancatholicism.org/davies-short.htm):

    Thanks be to God, the Tridentine Mass is not simply “the most beautiful thing this side of heaven” but the Mass that will not die. Just as the faithful of Milan refused to allow the Ambrosian Mass to be replaced by the Roman Mass, so the faithful of the Roman Rite have refused to abandon the Mass that is redolent of the liturgy “of the days when Caesar ruled the world and thought he could stamp out the faith of Christ, when our fathers met together before dawn and sang a hymn to Christ as to a God.” Its renewed use is spreading throughout the world with every day that passes, and each year more and more young priests are ordained who are resolved to celebrate Mass only according to the Missal of St. Pius which is as certain to be the Mass of our children as it was the Mass of our fathers“.

    Because I am where I am this week, I have so far had the privilege of attending since Sunday two Missa Cantata and two Solemn Masses with more to come right through to next Sunday. Heaven. The TLM is the only Mass as far as I am concerned and no doubt the young children and teenagers here also this week would heartily agree. Deo Gratias.

  10. Kathleen10 says:

    There is just something about it. But it takes far less than a complete Holy Latin Mass to transport, and that was my experience this past Sunday when a local church I visited contained a priest using Latin where he could and chanting or singing the prayers in Latin. Supernatural. What else to call it. Hearing it I had the urge to cover my face with my hands and pray as the Jews at the Wailing Wall.

  11. george says:

    I wonder if he first saw a low or high Mass? I am going to guess High Mass — taking Protestants to a Low Mass first is tough. Too much silence for them to “get it”.

    My wife converted from a non-denominational church to The Catholic Church about 10 years ago. She went with me to a Low Mass in the spring of 2011. The silence was what she loved! Granted, though, she was not a Protestant at the time…

  12. Robbie says:

    I want to echo a previous comment. Sadly, the NO is more often than not a hootenanny jamboree. The music sounds as if it comes from a Baptist hymnal and the priests seem to love the active participation. Last week, the priest of our parish started the Mass having everyone shake hands with each other even though we’d do it again later.

    I’m not sure who’s to blame. I think many priests assume this is in keeping with the spirit of VCII. I suspect they also feel lots of singing and a lively homily are what attract people. As for the parishioners, most have only grown up with this Mass so they know no better. It was only by chance that I, at 35, discovered the TLM.

    I do agree we should work to make NO more reverent through ad orientem, Latin prayers, Gregorian chant, and the use of Roman vestments. Having said that, the Bishops and most priests aren’t for it. If change happens, it will come a decade or two down the road thanks to more traditional minded young priests.

  13. tonyfernandez says:

    My faith has grown tremendously since attending a TLM. However, it’s been so hard for me to be able to attend one frequently. And I live very close to downtown Los Angeles. The only really nearby church celebrates one every Sunday at 1:00 p.m., which is a pretty tough time. The other churches are all very far away and all celebrate at odd times (6:30 a.m.!).

    Please pray for the Los Angeles, San Bernardino, and Riverside metropolitan area. This place is a breeding ground for feminist nonsense, banal music, and all around irreverent liturgies (and all kinds of errors in doctrine). Things are supposedly getting better but I’ve seen not one fruit of that improvement yet.

  14. Late for heaven says:

    I have the great blessing to be able to attend a Latin mass at a Dominican Parish every Sunday. Chant, Latin responses from the laity, vestments, incense, male servers and lectors. There is no Sign of Peace. I do not know if this is the Dominican rite or just the correct way to do the NO. Either way it is a spiritual feast. And I prefer it to the Extraordinary Form just as much as I do to Father Lovebead’s improv. It is the best of all world except Heaven itself

  15. Cordelio says:

    Then-Cardinal Ratzinger described the replacement of the Tridentine Rite of Mass with the Novus Ordo as an abandonment of a centuries long “organic, living process of growth and development” and its replacement with “a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product.” It’s hard to be more critical than that.

    I converted from a nominal Protestantism through the Tridentine Rite, and like George’s wife, was most struck by the silence of a Low Mass. It was a bit uncomfortable, at first, but seeing an oddly-dressed man walk into a totally silent church without comment and go about his business on the altar was a clear sign to me that something very different was going on than what I had previously experienced in church.

    The first Novus Ordo Mass I ever attended was at the wedding of one of my college roommates over a year after my conversion. It was by no means a hootenanny, but were it not for the geographical and social context (i.e., it was celebrated in a Catholic church in connection with the wedding of two Catholics), I would never have recognized it as a Catholic ceremony. Had this (or any Novus Ordo Mass I have subsequently witnessed) been my introduction to the Catholic Faith, I would never have converted.

  16. HighMass says:

    TO bad the folks on the liberal side don’t take this post to heart. Of course they would have the same answer they have had since the council…..”it is all for the Spirit of V. II”.

    Ironic this younger generation was not living when the Mass was Celebrated in the E.F. as the “Ordinary” for world wide……

    The N.O. is such a chopped liturgy, so much was taken was when bugnini invented it or however he fabricated it…..brick by brick as Fr. Z. says.

    Last thought….yes of course the Mass in the E.F. attracts all because of its BEAUTY, SACREDNESS, SOLEMNITY,and REVERENCE…..

  17. HighMass says:

    Sorry made so typo’s,
    meant to say:

    The N.O. is such a chopped liturgy…..so many prayer were done away with when bugnini….

    “Ordinary” for world wide……meant to say, “Ordinary” Form world wide.

  18. teomatteo says:

    Nice to read this post and the comments. In a “discussion” with my sibling he quipped that the only people that attend the latin mass are little old ladies with blue hair. I had to laugh.

  19. pjthom81 says:

    crunching the numbers, around 400 Latin Masses would be about…2.5% of US parishes? Compared to 0.16% in 1991? My guess is that when we get to around 10% we will see a sea change….it will start feeling like less of a novelty and more..well…normal.

  20. Jeannie_C says:

    The parish my husband and I attend offers the N.O. exclusively. While I understand why some people prefer the TLM, as a convert to Catholicism, all I can say is that I am grateful to be able to attend any mass at all. My only regret is that I didn’t convert years earlier.

  21. Gratias says:

    Father Joseph Fishwick, your reward will be in Heaven. Six hundred consecutive Sundays! God bless you.

  22. Clinton R. says:

    Beautiful story. Many thanks to Benedict XVI for Summorum Pontificum and also those who work tirelessly to restore the TLM. I pray for the restoration of the Mass Immemorial so more souls can be brought to Christ and His Church. +JMJ+

  23. Geoffrey says:

    Well said, APX! I fear reforming the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite is being forgotten in the wake of Summorum Pontificum. I know more than one “young person” who actually prefer the OF Mass in Latin (with chant, incense, ad orientem, etc.) with readings in the vernacular. That should be our goal.

  24. RafkasRoad says:

    Dear Jennie_C,

    I agree with you 100%

    Those who comment here, especially those who believe that it is reasonable and even desirable, or expected for folk to travel half way across there state two or three times a month to attend a latin mass even if such is two, three or even four hours journey one way seem to forget that for many of us, this is simply impossible due to disability, illness, or frail-age. have a care for those uf us who

    a) cannot drive and thus rely upon others,
    b) have disability that makes travel arduous or impossible
    c) have a disability that makes long-distance travel impossible (spinal injury etc)
    d) do not have a TLM in our state or even a day away.

    For many of us, we simply must make do with what we have. Those who propose that it is edifying for the soul to make the pilgremege four hours etc. several times per month to the TLM, perhaps hire a minibus and offer to take as many as you can along the way who cannot otherwise get to one, and for those who cannot endure travel, offer it from home to home if you are a priest, along the way, in the homes of the sick or disabled, so we do not miss out on such enriching spiritual nourishment.

    Furthermore, every advocate of the TLM, and priest who offers this mass needs to listen to
    remembering that this is fully adaptable to a traditional Catholic paradigm.

    I would like serious dialogue here on this site concerning the TLM and how to righ the above inequities that prevent those in my situation taking part.

    Additionally, these questions need to be asked

    a) is your TLM parish accessible to those who use a wheelchair?
    b) is the missal etc available in a format that a person without enough sight to read print can access?
    c) is provision made for those with deafness or hearing impairment; e.g. hearing loop, sign interpreter, easy-English material for the deaf etc?

    The argument that we are two few in numbers, too difficult to accommodate etc., makes a mockery of the intentions of those who advocate the TLM as a spiritual good for all Catholics, and indeed potential converts. Furthermore, the argument ‘there are not persons with a disability who worship with us’ is invalid, as one is then caused to ask the question ‘why not’?

    proponents of the TLM ought to be streets ahead of the ‘liberals’ in remembering ‘the least of these, my brethren’.

    My own experience here in the Sydney Greater Metrapolitan Area is less than pleasant. Ironically, the SSPX is far more accessible, and has a far broader footprint in Australia than the ‘valid’ TLM (FSSP). Australia is a wasteland, and utterly sterile for those of us with a disability who would wish to participate in the TLM here.


    Aussie Maronite.
    St. Pius X, pray for us,
    Bl. Margaret of Castello, Pray for us,
    St. Lucy, Pray for us,
    Bl. ‘Stephen the cripple’, Pray for us.

  25. JonPatrick says:

    I think one possible reason that so many older people seem to be opposed to the TLM is what has happened to the church and to Catholic culture in general. At one time there was a distinct Catholic culture that differentiated us from the mostly Protestant majority (I am speaking about the US here). Catholics ate fish on Friday, practiced various devotions, had statues and holy pictures in their houses. Then Catholics felt that with the changes of Vatican 2 they were given permission to start being like everyone else, which meant toning down or eliminating those things that made us different. Primary among those things was the Mass itself.

    Now we have TLM’s springing up, attended by women wearing veils, and the people who welcomed the new freedoms of post Vatican 2 fear they are being asked to go back to that time when they were different. People in general don’t want to be seen as different and so they fight it.

    What they don’t realize is that if one is going to be Catholic in this new aggressively secular world you are going to be different and you are going to stand out. Maybe that is why it is easier for younger people to embrace the TLM. They already know that by embracing Catholicism they are going against the mainstream.

  26. Unwilling says:

    In my experience, the great thing about the Latin Mass was its being THE Mass. This pristine mentality (destroyed by the official introduction of “novelties”, as marriage has been by acceptance of divorce) is dramatically portrayed by Myles Connolly in his book, Mr. Blue. The story is online at http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/skerl/inspiring%20stories/MrBlue.htm

  27. APX says:

    They are trivial and tame compared to the scorn and contempt with which the old Latin Mass is met among those who sometimes unaccountably despise it.

    Bear in mind we are going to be held accountable for every thought and word we speak. Everything we do and fail to do, we will be made accountable for. Why add to it just to make oneself feel better? Whining and moaning about things doesn’t attract people as much as sincere joy and happiness. Instead it drives people away.

  28. Andrew says:

    As soon as some positive news appears about the TLM, someone has to rip the NO and the conversation goes down hill from there. Brilliant! That will make you popular! The diplomacy of the handgranade.

  29. Suburbanbanshee says:

    I think the important part here is that it’s a good reverent Mass that’s winning souls, at a good reverent parish with a good reverent priest.

    Also, I’m pretty sure that Tolkien was POURING ON the intercession when that lady entered his parish church! Heh, heh….

  30. pookiesmom says:

    The twentieth century witnessed a massive falling away from Catholic practice, particularly in matters of morals, specifically sexual relations both inside and outside of marriage. In l950 in the US l0% of Catholic women practiced contraception; by l965 the number was 50% and by l970 it was 70%. The falling away from Catholic teaching in these areas of course was found also in Catholic religious as well; witness the Pope’s commission recommending that the Church allow
    contraception!! And then the massive clerical rebellion against Humanae Vitae (45 years ago today). In my humble opinion, God took away the beautiful Latin Mass from His people–unworthy shepherds, unworthy ministers, unworthy congregations. We are seeing a gradual resurgence of it today because of the untiring efforts of devout, practicing Catholics who want to worship God in the most beautiful way this side of Heaven.

  31. Priam1184 says:

    I know this is completely off this topic but can I just ask everyone to pray for the souls of the victims of the terrible train accident in Spain near Santiago de Compostela on this Feast of St. James.

  32. netokor says:

    “Bear in mind we are going to be held accountable for every thought and word we speak. Everything we do and fail to do, we will be made accountable for. Why add to it just to make oneself feel better?”

    I hope the NO Mass soon becomes as reverent and as truthfully militant as the EF. In the meantime, I will attend the EF as long as the Lord allows. I am ready to be held accountable for these words: Years of liturgical abuse at the NO have left me with an acute case of novordophobia. And I don’t expect to be cured any time soon. “Diplomacy of the hand grenade?” No, just the truth of what I and many faithful have suffered for decades.

  33. rbbadger says:

    When I first encountered the TLM as a new convert, I was left wondering why the Church suppressed such a beautiful thing. I was fortunate later on to learn how to serve it. I was fortunate, though, to have had early examples of how the NO ought to be celebrated. My home parish was the Cathedral of the Madeleine in Salt Lake City, UT. We always had lots of chant and polyphony, not to mention lots of wonderful organ music.

  34. Andrew says:

    “Diplomacy of the hand grenade?” No, just the truth of what I and many faithful have suffered for decades.

    The question is: what is more effective to draw others to the TLM? Complaining about the NO or talking about the beauty of the TLM? Will their curiosity be awakened by negative comments? Perhaps. But it is also possible that it will close their mind, that they will walk away. Prudent diplomacy is more effective in my opinion.

  35. Fr AJ says:

    HighMass, I don’t believe Bugnini invented much if anything, it was more of a cut and paste from differing missals and differing time periods. I have found that the NO is not as non-traditional as people might think and in fact it is very traditional in the sense it restored long lost practices and customs that had faded away by the time of Pius V. I think we sometimes get caught up in the silly songs and vestments and all that of today and forget to look at the essence of what we have in the OF Mass.

  36. tonyfernandez says:

    Fr AJ, it may have restored some things, but that doesn’t justify the many things that were taken away such as the prayers at the foot of the altar and the much of the offertory. And, IMO, the Last Gospel was beautiful. I see no reason for that to be suppressed.

    I think that people read the Vatican II documents and see what was intended by the Council as the way things should be. However, those documents that came after strayed pretty far, and that is where the recommendations like having the tabernacle separate and celebrations versus populum come from. Remember, the NO came from these documents and not from Vatican II. I’m fine with the Council, I’m more let down about what came after the Council.

  37. Scott W. says:

    The question is: what is more effective to draw others to the TLM? Complaining about the NO or talking about the beauty of the TLM? Will their curiosity be awakened by negative comments?

    It’s been about six months since I’ve attended the EF and am singing in the choir loft with the organist and one other vocalist. In that time I’ve learned that the biggest enemies of traditional Catholicism are traditionalists. Most people after Mass come up to thank us and compliment us for our work, as we are really plumbing the depths of the Church’s ancient musical treasury. But of course we still have malcontents who think we should only use Mass setting VIII, Credo III and the only hymns we should be singing are Salve Regina and maybe Tantum Ergo. The malcontents ripped into the organist recently and he was on the verge of despair, saying he was tempted to say “let it be a low Mass from now on and I can get some much-needed sleep on Sunday.” The OF pastor (the EF priests are brought in from elsewhere) thankfully has the patience of Job and even though he has to hear their crabbing all the time, he isn’t pulling the plug which he can and you could hardly blame him if he did.


    –Don’t assume everyone who attends or celebrates the OF is the enemy. Yes, you have been mistreated. Don’t take it out on people who weren’t even alive when then mistreatment happened.
    –The EF is a living patrimony. We are not there to recreate parish life in 1953 like a mosquito trapped in amber. In other words, there is waaaaaay more to traditional liturgical music than De Angelis and Schubert’s Ave Maria. The schmaltz of 1970 is not solved by returning to the schmalz of 1870.
    –Remember the four weapons from your St. Joseph’s Baltimore Catechism (in order low to high in potency): Encouragement, Good Example, Prayer, Suffering & Sacrifice. Not acrimony, bitterness, ingratitude, and general jackassery.

  38. HighMass says:


    Dear Clinton R. I am with you Totally…..THE restoration is so needed. God Bless Our Dear Pope Benedict….Lord knows how he has suffered for the Christ and his Church.

    We all need to keep praying and asking our Lord” for the restoration of the Mass….

    God BLess and keep praying.

  39. HighMass says:


    Dear Clinton R. I am with you Totally…..THE restoration is so needed. God Bless Our Dear Pope Benedict….Lord knows how he has suffered for the Christ and his Church.

    We all need to keep praying and asking our Lord” for the restoration of the Mass….

    God BLess and keep praying.

  40. Moro says:

    I agree with what APX said. Summorum Pontificum has allowed a lot of good to happen. However, it has allowed a lot of bad. I know some priests who adopt a novus ordo mentality. One in particular never bothered to really learn how to do a high mass, he just barged into doing high masses and the severs had no really training and it’s a circus. He’s also been known to mix up the prayers of consecration such that he says the consecration of the precious blood while holding the host. To my knowledge, he never had an latin training and it’s not an issue of senility with this priest. Despite my best efforts and that of others more knowledgeable than I, he hasn’t been able to improve. Another priest in this diocese is all about pagentry – he uses a ukrainian censer, blesses babies with the ciborium at communion, uses about 12 torchbearers. It strikes me as show for the sake of show, not solemnity for the sake of bringing people closer to God.

    Thankfully, about 90% of the time priest do the TLM properly or at least when they make a mistake it’s an honest to goodness mistake due to being new to the TLM or accustomed to saying the Novus Ordo most of the time. It’s not deliberate or the result of willful ignorance.

  41. Unwilling says:

    Dear Fr AJ, You are correct that the NO in itself (in them_selves, for they are many) is both made a holy rite and made up of “restored long lost practices and customs that had faded away”. In the beginning (early 70s), I used to take comfort in those roots in the Age of the Fathers. But on reflection it should give us pause. For the Age of the Fathers was also the age of the heresies most harmful and most persistent. Do we not use those names for some current errors: “Arianism”, “Pelagianism”, and so on? We ought to value not mere antiquities, but sanctified Tradition. And Tradition is what has not been lost, not faded away, but what has been through the processes of development and purification and has been handed down. We do not know all the liturgical experiments that were tried locally or regionally in various places between (say) 500 and 1500. Perhaps (and I warmly suspect so), many of them were the same as those put into the NO but rejected by the People or the Hierarchy at various levels. It is argued that the NO is a restoration of the Liturgy from the riches of the past, but I fear it is rather proving to be a reinfection of the Liturgy from persistent pockets of dangerous words and deed. Although by no means exposing to question the infallibility or authority of the Magisterium to make and formulate and enforce its decisions, I believe that the abandonment of the Traditional Liturgy and of the universal use of Latin in the regular prayer of the Church, will one day, within a century or so, be seen as a terrible error in prudential judgement. One day, Catholics will again enjoy the normal assurance of a universal oneness in worship and doctrine.

  42. One of those TNCs says:

    I pray that those who come for the way the EF makes them FEEL, end up staying, not based on feelings, but on love and knowledge of the Truth.

    Feelings and emotions are transitory. The Truth of the Catholic Faith remains forever.

  43. Robbie says:

    I’ve not seen this posted anywhere, but Edward Pentin published an interview he had with Cardinal Burke around the time of Sacra Liturga.


  44. HighMass says:

    Fr. AJ,

    In all due respect I have heard/read that also, re: cut and paste…..it is jokingly said that the 2nd Eucharistic Prayer was written on an napkin at outside a coffee shop in Rome…..not saying I believe it….It is also said Bugnini was a Mason….. no judging here…..

    Truthfully what sense did the N.O. make???? I remember the first half Latin/English Mass, during the council….they were part of the E.F. modified into the vernacular???? Readings, Gospel, Etc.
    Still have the “cheat card” that was given for us to follow along.

    Look I do believe the N.O. is a valid and Holy Mass…..but…..the damage that has come from it is horrid, music, liturgical dance….WOMEN on the ALTER…..ETC> ETC< ETC.

    I am sure you get the Point Father…..You Priests have fought the GOOD FIGHT…..Now we pray for the Reform of the Reform to continue……

  45. Minnesotan from Florida says:

    The patristic age may have also been the age of heresies – Arian, Nestorian,
    Monophysite, and the rest – and perhaps they were worse heresies as well, but they passed away in a shorter time than the Protestant heresy now at 500 years and still going strong.

  46. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Minnesotan from Florida: To follow what I take to be your worthwhile tangent, it is more complicated than that. For, 414 years ago, Richard Hooker, defending the English Reformation, was saying to the Calvinists, “are not your Anabaptists, Familists, Libertines, Arians and other like extreme reformers of popery grown by that very means [that is, of “endeavouring to be most removed from conformity with the Church of Rome”] hateful to the whole world? Are not their heresies a thousand times more execrable and hateful than popery?”

    But also, even 500 years on, a lot of ‘non-modernist’ Protestants are still not Arians, Nestorians, Monophysites, Donatists, etc., together with ‘non-modernist’ Catholics.

    But perhaps I do not understand just what you mean by “the Protestant heresy”.

  47. Fr AJ says:

    HighMass, no arguments from me on those points. In my comments I was thinking of two traditionalist friends of mine who question the validity of the NO and aren’t sure if I’m validly ordained or not because it wasn’t in the ’62 rite. When I question them on why, I hear about bad vestments, bad music, bad homilies, etc., all of which I agree are terrible and need reformed but that doesn’t mean the Mass or other rites are somehow invalid.

  48. HighMass says:

    Fr. AJ,

    Thanks for listening and Answering…..How can the Sacraments after 1962 not be valid????
    On the other hand I see there hurt/frustration….. Truthfully there was no need to “modernize” the Sacaraments….Holy Orders being the MOST beautiful of them all, in as the wrapping of the Priests hands by the Bishop and giving the cloth to bury his mother with…..

    Sometimes when we try and simplify everything we just make a mess of it……i.e. the N.O……Continuation of the Reform of the Reform is BADLY needed….after all wasn’t it Pope Benedict’s intention to incorporate forms and make them one holy form of the Holy Mass, or am I dreaming here…….

    Fathers/Priests thanks for ALL you do for the Faithful…..(Fr.Z.) you are in there also…..GOD BLESS YOU HOLY PRIESTS!

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