From a priest…
QUAERITUR:
Do you think it is appropriate for a newly wed couple to share a kiss at their wedding mass? If so, the only place in the Ordinary Form I can think of it happening is at the very end, before they process out.
No.
About this blog…
“This blog is like a fusion of the Baroque ‘salon’ with its well-tuned harpsichord around which polite society gathered for entertainment and edification and, on the other hand, a Wild West “saloon” with its out-of-tune piano and swinging doors, where everyone has a gun and something to say. Nevertheless, we try to point our discussions back to what it is to be Catholic in this increasingly difficult age, to love God, and how to get to heaven.” – Fr. Z
Coat of Arms by D Burkart
ABORTION PILL RESCUE NETWORK
Everyone, work to get this into your parish bulletins and diocesan papers.
YOUR RECENT COMMENTS
- on 9 December – Feast of St. Juan Diego. ASTONISHING miracle story!: “I do ask for miracles. And not just the ordinary everyday little miracles. I’m asking for a big miracle now…”
- on Daily Rome Shot 877 – Wherein Fr. Z blew it.: “1. Qf7+ Rxf7 2. Ra8+ Qd8 (draw out the inevitable – maybe the clock is low!) 3. Rxd8+ Rf8 4.…”
- on 9 December – Feast of St. Juan Diego. ASTONISHING miracle story!: “Jacob just got his MRI results back. The tumor resection was fully successful. Our surgeon was very pleased to share…”
- on 8 December: Happy Birthday BLOG!: “I’m so grateful for your work on this blog, Father. Thank you. Happy Blogiversary! Ad multos annos!”
- on 8 December: Happy Birthday BLOG!: “Can’t believe where the time has gone. Congratulations to you my friend. And my our good Lord and His most…”
- on 7 December: Some cool things about St. Ambrose: ““Mellifluous” – Such a great word! Delightful to read, say, hear….it just kind of bounces…”
- on 8 December: Happy Birthday BLOG!: “May God continue to shower you with blessings. Thank you for your faithfulness. I’m sure Our Blessed Mother is happy…”
- on 8 December: Happy Birthday BLOG!: “Echoing the five comments I see as I write – indeed! Many thanks (for such fruitful and delightful variety), and…”
- on 8 December: Happy Birthday BLOG!: “Congrats Fr. Z! Thank you for all you do with this blog time and time again. Praying that 2024 is…”
I am delighted to have been approved as an affiliate of Chess.com and House of Staunton.
Polls
Loading ...Your support is important. Thanks in advance.
To donate monthly via Continue To Give use your phone's camera to activate the Q code or text 4827563 to 715-803-4772 (US) for a link.
For Zelle and Chase, etc., use
frz AT wdtprs DOT com.Use FATHERZ10 at checkout for 10% off
Donate using VENMO
GREAT BEER from Traditional Benedictine Monks in Italy
CLICK and say your daily offerings!
A Daily Prayer for Priests
NEW OPPORTUNITY – 10% off with code: FATHERZ10
Fr. Z’s VOICEMAIL
Nota bene: I do not answer these numbers or this Skype address. You won't get me "live". I check for messages regularly.
WDTPRS
020 8133 4535
651-447-6265
This REALLY helps! And it’s great coffee (and tea)
I use this when I travel both in these USA and abroad. Very useful. Fast enough for Zoom. I connect my DMR (ham radio) through it. If you use my link, they give me more data. A GREAT back up.
This blog has to earn its keep!
PLEASE subscribe via PayPal if it is useful.
That way I have steady income I can plan on, and you wind up regularly on my list of benefactors for whom I pray and for whom I periodically say Holy Mass.
In view of the rapidly changing challenges I now face, I would like to add more $10/month subscribers. Will you please help?
For a one time donation...
Be a “Zed-Head”!
CHALLENGE COINS!
My "challenge coin" for my 25th anniversary of ordination in 2016.
Want one? I do exchanges with military and LEOs, etc.
PLEASE RESPOND. Pretty pleeeease?
Loading ...This is really useful when travelling… and also when you aren’t and you need backup internet NOW! I use this for my DMR “Zednet” hotspot when I’m mobile. It’s a ham radio thing.
If you travel internationally, this is a super useful gizmo for your mobile internet data. I use one. If you get one through my link, I get data rewards.
WDTPRS POLL
Loading ...Fr. Z’s stuff is everywhere
Help support Fr. Z’s Gospel of Life work at no cost to you. Do you need a Real Estate Agent? Calling these people is the FIRST thing you should do!
They find you a pro-life agent in your area who commits to giving a portion of the fee to a pro-life group!
GREAT causes to support
Help Monks in Wyoming (coffee – UPDATED LINK) and Norcia (beer) and the wonderful "Soap Sisters" of Summit, NJ!
Please follow me on Twitter!
Loading ...
I don’t know just where it comes from, but somehow people have the idea that the officiant says to the groom — upon completion of the vows — “you may now kiss the bride.” I have been asked, “when do you say that, father?”
My answer is I don’t; it’s not part of the ritual. And, as I add, “it seems ridiculous to me that you need my permission to kiss each other. Use good decorum.
That said, I don’t worry about them kissing. If there is an exchange of peace, that seems the best time.
What’s wrong with a simple kiss at the sign of peace, sans fanfare or announcement?
Best response to a Quaeitur, ever.
No words wasted. I like that. :-)
Slightly off topic but still on the topic of weddings: Yesterday I attended a generic protestant wedding. Following “if any one knows any reason these two may not marry, speak now or forever hold your peace”, the minister then addressed the bride and groom. Reading from his ceremonial book, he said, that in view of their vows in the sight of God, and acknowledging that they will stand before God for judgment, if they knew of any impediment to their vows, they should “confess” the impediment or their marriage would not be valid in the sight of God. I have never before heard this at a wedding. Does anyone know what marriage ritual this is?
The other issue with couples kissing is that it tends to result in hooting, hollering, and cat-calling from various members of the congregation. Might as well just spare the couple the embarrassment of uncle Bob and cousins Cletus and Billy acting like rednecks.
When my wife and I wed in 2009, I hadn’t discovered the Extraordinary Form or really any of the pre-vat ii traditions of which I am now so fond. Had I been aware, we wouldn’t have had the ‘unity candle’, and perhaps could have foregone the “you may now kiss the bride.”
However, I had the awareness to find a proper organist and pick some decent hymns (didn’t know what a proper was, sadly.) And I insisted on the Agnus Dei in Latin, which I thought at the time was really special.
If there is a sign of peace, I don’t see why they couldn’t kiss then. Around here lots of married
couples exchange a kiss at that moment.
Terentia, in the Church of England wedding service, the minister says:
Terentia, that is the good old 1928 Book of Common Prayer ‘Form of Solemnization of Matrimony’, to-wit:
The ‘new’ (1979) prayer book, which bears a frightening resemblance to the “Lame Duck Version”, of course dumbs this down substantially, omitting the dreadful day of judgment (as if by that omission pretending that it somehow won’t happen?) and a good deal more.
AnAmericanMother, an only slightly modified version of the 1928 Prayer Book ceremony is permitted as an “alternative service” in the Church of England.
HERE
jhayes,
Looks like the remnant in Jolly Olde England – just like their fast-diminishing Episcopalian brethren – have softened up the marriage service as compared to the old 1662 book – apparently all this political correctness is pervasive throughout the Anglican Communion.
Thankfully my husband and I were married under the old ’28 Book – which is virtually identical to the 1662 Book in the Charge. What is really take-no-prisoners in the ’62 Book is the preamble, after the “unadvisedly or lightly” language, “duly considering the causes for which Matrimony was ordained.
Fir?t, it was ordained for the procreation of children, to be brought up in the fear and nurture of the Lord, and to the praise of his holy Name.
Secondly, it was ordained for a remedy again?t sin, and to avoid fornication; that such persons as have not the gift of continency might marry, and keep themselves undefiled members of Chri?t’s body.
Thirdly, it was ordained for the mutual society, help, and comfort, that the one ought to have of the other, both in prosperity and adversity.” All of that language is gone of course.
Nothing mealy-mouthed about Archbishop Cranmer. Can’t say the same about his successors.
The medial “s” in the typeface doesn’t print. Sorry about that.
It is becoming customary in my FSSP parish that the couples to be wed bring a crucifix to the wedding ceremony and make their vows while placing their hands on the crucifix. They are encouraged to take all their joys and sorrows of married life “to the foot of the Cross”. At the end of the nuptial Mass they kiss the cross, rather than each other. They then carry the blessed crucifix out of the church and it is put in a place of importance/veneration in their new home.
I like that custom, mulieribus!
There’s inappropriate, and then there’s inappropriate.
It is indeed not appropriate to plan on a moment where that would happen, as it isn’t part of the rite – “you may kiss the bride” is not included.
But it isn’t inappropriate on a level that one should actively strive to prevent it. Especially as, in most NO Masses, at the sign of peace pretty much the entire congregation is already shaking hands, but often also kissing or hugging – especially at weddings, most likely. It seems more than a bit ridiculous to have the parents of the bride or groom kiss eachother in the pews at that time (and with some basis too, “greet eachother with the holy kiss” isn’t that far out of context…) but insist the bride and groom cannot.
If you don’t want people kiss, you reasonably also have to omit the sign of peace. Is that worth it?
So in all, I wholly agree with Fr Martin Fox and some other comments above. Don’t make special accomodations for it, but if there’s a sign of peace, it’s pretty much inevitable. At that point, it’s not misplaced unless one judges the entire sign of peace misplaced. One can argue that’s exactly the case, but wedding Masses aren’t the place to start that battle.
I was married 3 years ago, and to be honest, I don’t remember if there was a kiss or not.
What I do remember is that it was one of only few times that I heard the Roman Canon during Novus Ordo Mass.
AnAmericanMother, Cranmer was more earthy, but the ideas are still there:
I don’t mind a little peck but that whole hog, “Hey let’s consummate this sucker right now!” kissing while the church errupts into hoots and cheers has got to go.
Does the Anglican Use Matrimonial Liturgy retain this form in the Latin Church?
My wife and I were married according the Malankara Recension of the Syriac Rite in the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church — no rite of kissing included, and considered culturally taboo, if done.. tolerated at the post-wedding reception, although can be frowned upon!
If you don’t want people kiss, you reasonably also have to omit the sign of peace.
==============
If only!
I personally don’t care for watching couples kiss during the sign of peace while I wait to shake their hand. This also reminds me of an FSSP priest who once told couples not to hold hands while walking up to and receiving Holy Communion.
mulieribus,
What a lovely custom! I wish we had known about that before my daughter was married last December.
I think they kissed during the Peace, but they didn’t make a big deal out of it.
My husband and I did not kiss during our wedding mass. We saved it for the photo op after we had left the church.
The number one comment we received after our ceremony was, “You forgot to kiss!” As if that’s the part everyone cares about…
We just had to smile and say, “No, we didn’t.”
Kensington,
I agree, the sign of peace – or better said, the shaking of hands or worse – is as welcome to me as a minor toothache. Point is of course that people expect it, and especially wedding masses will be frequented by Catholics who, how shall we put it, cause very little wear and tear on the pews. That might extent to the couple as well, too. Under such circumstances, I’d expect the sign of peace to live on during such Masses for many years after it would have been axed from normal liturgies. It’s not a battle many priests will want to wage, and with good reason. So any progress on the sign of peace front would have to come first.
And I see few signs it’s happening at all, to be honest.