11 Oct: St. John XXIII

Today is the feast of the Pope who issued the Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia.

Today is the feast of the Pope who didn’t like it when people clapped in church.

Today is the feast of the Pope who issued the Roman Missal of St. John XXIII.

His propers are HERE.

It is also the anniversary of the famous “Under the Moon” speech after the opening of the Second Vatican Council.

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17 Responses to 11 Oct: St. John XXIII

  1. Imrahil says:

    It is also, of course, the feast of the motherhood of the Blessed Virgin Mary, both in the old calendar and for some regions in their new calendar (Spain, I hear), though, in either case, it gives way to the celebration of the Sunday.

  2. James C says:

    It’s also the feast of the pope who refused even to meet with a “suffragette” who wanted to discuss women’s “ordination” with him.

  3. Alanmac says:

    Pope John XXIII was certainly right about clapping in church. Clapping takes the focus away from the Lord to the individual or group who attend the church. I never clap but as I look around, it seems I am the sole non-participant.

  4. albinus1 says:

    Father, the link you provided to Veterum Sapientia actually links to the Italian text of a speech Pius XII made in 1944, and not to Veterum Sapientia.

  5. Father Bartoloma says:

    Roncali of History, John of Faith.

  6. Elizabeth D says:

    In honor of Saint John XXIII and Veterum Sapientia I sang to my catechism children in Latin today. Actually I did not know it was the feast of St John XXIII, I just felt like singing Adoro Te; we were praying in front of the Tabernacle. Most never heard anybody sing in Latin at church before.

  7. slainewe says:

    The “Under the Moon” speech is mostly beautiful but this paragraph sounds like the beginning of all the present turmoil in the Church:

    “The Church has always opposed … errors. Frequently she has condemned them with the greatest severity. Nowadays however, the Spouse of Christ prefers to make use of the medicine of mercy rather than that of severity. She considers that she meets the needs of the present day by demonstrating the validity of her teaching rather than by condemnations. Not, certainly, that there is a lack of fallacious teaching, opinions, and dangerous concepts to be guarded against an dissipated. But these are so obviously in contrast with the right norm of honesty, and have produced such lethal fruits that by now it would seem that men of themselves are inclined to condemn them, particularly those ways of life which despise God and His law or place excessive confidence in technical progress and a well-being based exclusively on the comforts of life. They are ever more deeply convinced of the paramount dignity of the human person and of his perfection as well as of the duties which that implies. Even more important, experience has taught men that violence inflicted on others, the might of arms, and political domination, are of no help at all in finding a happy solution to the grave problems which afflict them.”

    Condemning error, that is, admonishing sinners, IS an act of mercy. Using “severity” (discipline) when the sinner is not convinced by words is another act of mercy in that it prevents the sinner from destroying other souls. So what does Saint John mean by a “medicine of mercy?”

    By what follows, he seems to mean that the Church will no longer stop the propagation of error, but depend on individual men to see errors on their own because human experience is sufficient to teach them right from wrong. Isn’t this, itself, a theological error? Was not the reason that we had a generation of men who could recognize error in Saint John’s time because the Church was “severe” in condemning them?

    At any rate, as well-meaning may have been this experiment, all it has proved is that without Church tough love (REAL MERCY!), men ARE NOT “inclined to condemn [error], particularly those ways of life which despise God and His law.” They ARE inclined to “place excessive confidence in technical progress and a well-being based exclusively on the comforts of life.” They ARE NOT “deeply convinced of the paramount dignity of the human person and of his perfection as well as of the duties which that implies.” And experience HAS NOT “taught men that violence inflicted on others, the might of arms, and political domination, are of no help at all in finding a happy solution to the grave problems which afflict them.”

    We need a Mother! Saint John XXIII, pray for us!

  8. Bosco says:

    In his 2013 ‘Evangelii Gaudium’ Bergolio declared, quoting Pope St. John XXIII, that:

    “We feel that we must disagree with those prophets of doom who are always forecasting disaster, as though the end of the world were at hand.” – Pope St. John XXIII of course was referring to the messages transmitted by of Our Lady of Fatima to the 3 children and, ultimately, the partially disclosed Third Secret of Fatima.

  9. Stephanus83 says:

    “Clapping takes the focus away from the Lord to the individual or group who attend the church. I never clap but as I look around, it seems I am the sole non-participant.”

    @Alanmac What kind of church do you go to? I pretty much only attend the ordinary form and I’ve never been to a church that anyone clapped during the mass. Is this widespread? I ask because I genuinely want to know since I’ve never seen it.

  10. Lisa Graas says:

    English text of the “Under the Moon” speech can be found at http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/teach/v2open.htm

  11. Lin says:

    Intentional or not, John XXIII started the “modernization” of the Catholic Church with the convocation of Vatican II. I am still baffled by his being elevated to sainthood. When they tossed out the Baltimore Catechism for teaching our children the faith, effective catechism classes ceased to exist! Pray we don’t modernize marriage and the family in the same manner!

  12. Chuck says:

    To Stephanus83’s comment about clapping in church they had EMHCs installed at my parish this morning and Father asked us to show them our support…I had to stop my seven year old from clapping.

  13. Bea says:

    Hi Imrahil
    She is known in Spain as “La señora de la Leche y Buen Parto”
    St. Augustine Church in Rome (St. Monica is buried there) has a beautiful statue of Our Lady there near Piazza Navona known as “Madonna del Parto” She is intercessor for a Happy Delivery for pregnant mothers.
    One of my grandson’s birthday is today and I had been praying to her for my daughter’s happy delivery. (He was born at home). I had a holy card I purchased there many moons ago, but can’t find it now.

  14. Bea says:

    Alanmac and Stephanus83:
    Pope Benedict XVI also had something to say about clapping in church, too.
    “Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment” (spirit of the liturgy p. 198).

    I printed out some cards with this quote and gave them out at a “mariachi mass” (with our pastors permission). One lady in particular just shook her head at me. Her daughter was the main solo singer and she was at the head of starting the applause.

  15. Bea says:

    Thanks for the link, Lisa Graas. I just read it in its’ entirety. (His Opening Statement on Vatican II, October 11, 1962).

    It’s funny he speaks of unity:
    “Indeed, if one considers well this same unity which Christ implored for His Church, it seems to shine, as it were, with a triple ray of beneficent supernal light: namely, the unity of Catholics among themselves, which must always be kept exemplary and most firm”
    And now I have never seen the Church so disunited.
    I remember growing up, that sense of peace and unity. We were all ROMAN CATHOLICS, we all believed what the Church taught, now we are liberals, traditionalists, fundamentalists, modernists, progressives, you name it. I hope we are still Catholics.

    He also said:
    “Our duty is not only to guard this precious treasure, as if we were concerned only with antiquity, but to dedicate ourselves with an earnest will and without fear to that work which our era demands of us, pursuing thus the path which the Church has followed for twenty centuries.”
    This is indeed our precious treasure, our paternity, our inheritance, the Pearl of Great Price and yet I have heard prelates say when speaking of what we had before V2: “we can never go back”

    May God have Mercy on us and protect us from error, from wherever it comes.

  16. Bea says:

    Lisa Graas
    Thanks for the link of the opening statement, but it was not the “under the moon” speech. That was something different, still, I gleaned much from the link of the opening statement and I really appreciate that.

  17. bourgja says:

    @Lin: the canonization of John XXIII was highly irregular, using the process of “equivalent canonization” without an approved second miracle. This process is usually used for persons who have been venerated for hundreds of years, and are uncontroversial.