CDF priest comes out of the closet and makes demands. He’s fired.

On the eve of the Synod, a homosexual priest working for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and teaching at a university in Rome publicly announced himself to be a homosexual and that he has a “companion”.  He took advantage of the imminent Synod and recent news stories about the “gay friendly” Pope Francis to come out and also to issue an absurd 10 point “manifesto” demanding that the Church change her teachings about homosexuality.

Keep in mind that even were the Church to do that – in his dreams – it wouldn’t be enough. Nothing is enough for militant “gays”.

The Holy See’s reaction?  He’s fired from his positions.

ChurchMilitant has a pretty summary of the train wreck that occurred.

ROME, October 3, 2015 ( – A Polish priest working at the Congregration for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) has admitted his homosexuality [poor man] and issued a manifesto demanding changes to Church teaching. [deluded man]

The priest, Msgr. Krzysztof Charamsa, is a professor at the Pontifical Gregorian University [a Jesuit institution] and has been on the Vatican’s International Theological Commission since 2009. [big deal]

In a video released yesterday by the Polish LGBT activist group Artyku? osiemnasty, Msgr. Charamsa declares his homosexuality  [poor man] and admits to having a boyfriend. [deluded man]

Also released along with the video was a 10-point manifesto of demands. [deluded man]

1. Disposal of homophobia and anti-gay discrimination

2. Condemnation of punishment for homosexuality


3. Cessation of the Church’s interference in guaranteeing human rights by democratic states


4. Canceling incompetent and prejudicial documents

We demand the Pope revise the Catechism and repeal all the cruel documents that are incompetent to deal with the issue of homosexual persons, who are the object both of the Church’s compassion and stigmatization — in particular, the documents of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the heir to the Holy Inquisition. Unacceptable documents include:

a) the declaration Persona Humana from 1975, [let’s all make sure to re-read it!] discussing among other things the “pathological constitution” of homosexual persons, which by their nature supposedly “have difficulty adjusting socially” and carry an “disorder” that “without the necessary and significant adjustment” is considered a “depravity”;

b) Letter on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons of 1986, [an excellent, thoughtful and charitable document] which calls for “compassion” for homosexuals, who “suffer” from same-sex attraction, and which accepts the existence of “fair discrimination” against homosexuals and rejects only “unjust discrimination” against them;

c) the outrageous Considerations Concerning the Response to Legislative Proposals on the Non-Discrimination of Homosexual Persons in 1992; [Find it HERE]

d) Considerations Regarding Proposals to Legalize Unions Between Homosexual Persons from 2003, [Find it HERE] according to which homosexuality is “devoid of any genuine affective maturity,” and homosexual relationships are devoid of any “human and ordered form of sexual relations”;

e) the Catechism of the Church Catholic, sections 2357–2359, teaches that not only same-sex acts but also homosexual orientation are “objectively disordered.” It also emphasizes that by nature, homosexuals have no emotional complementarity with other human persons they love. And it adds that for most of us orientation is a difficult experience requiring compassion toward our neighbor, but not without avoiding just discrimination. How does the Church know what is our suffering and difficulty? Well, it is not sexual orientation, but homophobia from the Church. Learning via the Catechism is offensive, apart from the fact that the very definition of homosexuality is deficient, if not quite false. The analysis of the situation of homosexual persons is also deficient.

5. Immediate cancellation of discriminatory instructions about denying the priesthood to homosexual persons

We demand that the Pope immediately abolish regrettable instructions about refusing the ordination of homosexuals, endorsed by Pope Benedict XVI in 2005. [I say STRENGTHEN IT NOW! Find it HERE]

6. Initiate a serious interdisciplinary scientific reflection over the morality of human sexuality


7. Revision of the interpretation of biblical texts on homosexuality

We demand that the Church treat seriously the question of its own interpretation of the Bible, freeing itself of fundamentalism, noting verses that talk about homosexual people, never condemning them, and contextualizing biblical texts that address homogenital acts.

8. Adoption of ecumenical dialogue with our Lutheran and Anglican brothers about homosexuality


9. The need to ask for forgiveness toward homosexuals


10. Respect for and belief in homosexuals and change in the distorted position of the Church on what a homosexual Christian life should look like


Text of “Gazeta Wyborcza” received from Fr. Christopher Charamsy via Vox Cantoris. Translation slightly edited for clarity.

Interview Transcript:


Msgr. Charamsa is expected to give a press conference on Saturday at noon in Rome. [Link to Corriere della sera – the conference was held in a restaurant]

The Holy See has reacted by firing this priest from his position at the CDF and his teaching jobs.

From the Bollettino today:

Traduzione in lingua inglese

With regard to the declarations and interview given by Msgr. Krzystof Charamsa it should be observed that, notwithstanding the respect due to the events and personal situations, and reflections on the issue, the decision to make such a pointed statement on the eve of the opening of the Synod appears very serious and irresponsible, since it aims to subject the Synod assembly to undue media pressure. Msgr. Charamsa will certainly be unable to continue to carry out his previous work in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pontifical universities, while the other aspects of his situation shall remain the competence of his diocesan Ordinary.

[01621-EN.01] [Original text: Italian – working translation]

There is no way that recent news items did not play a role in precipitating this coming out party.

This priest is now done … as a priest.  His ordinary gets to deal with him now.

The sodomites are emboldened.   I suspect that this will sooner or later break out in violent demonstrations and protests.

Now more than ever, bishops need to make sure that their seminarians are heterosexual and clear about the Church’s teachings, especially about the pastoral care of homosexual persons.

Moreover, I suggest to priests and bishops that they increase their situational awareness, even with specialized training, and secure their residences and increase security at their parishes and institutions.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in Sin That Cries To Heaven, The Coming Storm, The Drill, The future and our choices and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.


  1. Elizabeth D says:

    I pray continuously and with personal sacrifice (penance) for the purity of heart of same-sex attracted priests, that they may see God. This news definitely reminds me of why I do that.
    It also makes me think of the communist infiltration of the Church.

  2. juergensen says:

    He could have omitted the part about the CCC; few bishops use it anyway.

  3. juergensen says:

    I believed it before but I know it now: the “Synod on the Family” is really a synod to advance the homosexual agenda.

  4. Someone please be the Garrigue says:

    If you’re quick you can still grab an earlier translation or interpretation of “pointed statement”.

    There seems to be a bit from somewhere to clean up “or else”.

  5. robtbrown says:

    Pus is oozing from the infection.

  6. iPadre says:

    All the deluded liberals and loons are coming out into the public eye for all to see. Cardinals, bishops, priests & laity who think the unchangeable can be changed and immorality can become virtue are becoming known to all. Maybe this is the plan of Pope Francis. What was once said in the dark is now being proclaimed in the light of day.

  7. Gratias says:

    Gays have a different understanding of celibacy. This is how the child molestation crisis came to pass.

  8. majuscule says:

    The sodomites are emboldened. I suspect that this will sooner or later break out in violent demonstrations and protests.

    I fear that you are correct.

    I have seen a lot of comment about this priest on social media and news sites. I haven’t heard anyone else mention the possibility of violence.

    I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I remember our battle for Proposition 8 (marriage between one man and one woman). The comments from some of these people were frightening.

  9. Pingback: The Vatican fires gay priest  | Deaconjohn1987's Blog

  10. Michael H says:

    The declaration in Persona Humana from 1975 that homosexuals “have difficulty adjusting socially” seems to be proved true by Msgr. Krzystof Charams’ actions, lifestyle and writings, no?

  11. Gregorius says:

    yawn. I’ll pray for the priest and the other man to receive God’s grace, but I’ll forget this story as soon as the ‘amen’ leaves my lips. I will not give him the soapbox he’s looking for.

  12. Dundonianski says:

    Several sites including many news outlets are carrying this story-but the generally common denominator suggests that he was removed not simply because of his seemingly unrepentant inclinations, but that his revelations and pronouncements were ill-timed given the proximity of the upcoming synod. This is no outraged “” sacking, doubtless mercy will prevail, given that the The Vatican press statement indicates “respect” for the cleric.

  13. MrsMacD says:

    I’ve been thinking/saying that all along iPadre. Even if Pope Francis didn’t plan it! God did.

  14. TomG says:

    iPadre: Father, I wish I could believe that this is the plan of the Holy Father. If so, IMO it is far too tortuous a plan for the faithful – Christ’s little ones. And my wife and her Divine Mercy prayer group women friends are apoplectic about this.

  15. juergensen says:

    “All the deluded liberals and loons are coming out into the public eye for all to see.”

    Nature abhors a vacuum.

  16. benedetta says:

    What iPadre said.

    I’m going to be totally, brutally honest here. I’ve been a Catholic my whole life, and I have belonged to a great many different parish contexts and connected in friendship and voluntarism with a now countless number of Catholic circles, congregations, movements, apostolic endeavors, schools, orders, etc., including dissenting liberal, mainstream cafeteria liberal, orthodox, charismatic, trad. And in all my wanderings and partaking of our Catholic communion, I have never, ever, in my life, witnessed or heard other Catholics being “homophobic” much less desiring or showing discrimination or hatred towards gay persons, our brothers and sisters. Quite the opposite as a matter of fact. I will say further that I think the Catholic Church right now is one of the most gay friendly places and supportive of gay brothers and sisters, even to the exclusion of, quite frequently, other really needed and supportive outreaches including towards the family in need, pro life/babies in need, the poor, the marginalized, the vulnerable, schools and ccd particularly — showing that our leadership in the Church to the contrary is interested in supporting gay persons. I think the vast majority of Catholics’ experience is in line with the Holy Father’s visit with his student friend recently, living in a long term relationship. I think most Catholics go out of their way to live the catechism on this and be kind, generous, and respectful of gay persons

    That being said, unfortunately since about ’07 or so the ordinary, mainstream believers, sometimes minors, have not had that same courtesy extended to them. As a matter of fact ordinary Christians, particularly those who actively pray to support women in crisis/coercion and their babies preborn, are getting harshed on, menaced such to make a great many doubt in the great liberal audacity — it’s got a bitter and menacing kick that is actively doing harm right now to people who are innocent of all of that and just trying to go about their lives in peace. The reality of what is happening is the opposite from this guy’s propaganda, seminary instructor that he is, I’m sure he means well, and it sounds right to him, but it’s not the real world right now at all. I’m just asking that ordinary believers just trying to live their lives, often minors, be permitted to live in peace without being harassed and menaced, without being harmed, the way for many decades a great many in the church have served and supported and worked alongside our gay brothers and sisters for peace.

  17. ncstevem says:

    What is often missing in the discussions about sodomite priests is the fact that the Church’s position is that they should not be admitted to the seminary, and certainly not ordained.

    Those who applied/apply to seminary do so under false pretenses. I would question the validity of their priesthood. I certainly wouldn’t entrust the spiritual care of my family to a priest who was afflicted in this way.

  18. jilly4life says:

    “5. Immediate cancellation of discriminatory instructions about denying the priesthood to homosexual persons

    We demand that the Pope immediately abolish regrettable instructions about refusing the ordination of homosexuals, endorsed by Pope Benedict XVI in 2005”

    He doesn’t do his argument any favors, by having a “companion.”

  19. KingofCharity says:

    The way around this is for the Church to strengthen its language that all humans are in some sense intrinsically and objectively disordered by sin. The RCC needs a strong and clear teaching about the reality of “physical evil.” The effects of sin are real. The effects of the Fall have scared all of creation– even human sexuality. It is heresy to say things like “God doesn’t make mistakes, so gays are made by God,” or ” they are born that way and it is natural so we must treat it with scientific neutrality.” Nature is not the same as “Natural Law.” Natural Law is the Divine Order of nature on how it objectively is and should be APART FROM THE EFFECTS OF THE FALL AND ORIGINAL SIN. Nature is the current world with all its good signs and imperfections due to the Fall. We must clarify the difference between Nature and Natural Law. The RCC must strengthen its teachings about the imperfect condition of created matter and human nature.
    The Church also needs to clarify that just because something is “natural” doesn’t make it right or moral. We are not held accountable to nature– we are held accountable to Divine Law. In addition, we can’t transfer sexuality from the moral realm over to the realm of science and claim that the Church’s authority is now null on sexuality because it is now a “scientific” question. This is absolutely not an option. Just because it exists in nature doesn’t mean it is beautiful, true, and good. Human sexuality is prone to perversions, distortions, erotic impulses, deviant desires, etc.
    So the solution is for the RCC to remind the world that ALL people are to some degree broken, disordered, etc. by sin. We will not get offended. God didn’t “create us this way.” We have inclinations toward sin because of the effects of the Fall and Original Sin. Creation itself is “on a journey” towards perfection as the Catechism says often. It’s perfection will only culminate in the Second Coming of Christ. So just because people are born homosexual or whatever, doesn’t mean God “made them that way.” The Fall has wounded all of creation. In addition there is diabolical influence over the created world, too. “God doesn’t make mistakes,” say the liberals. But if that is true then all sinners “were made exactly the way God wanted them.” This is false. He made us in his image through our rational free wills. But we are sinners. Sin is both a choice but it is also a part of our broken and wounded human nature. The universe itself is wounded.
    Even healthy heterosexuals have to manage and discipline their sexuality-
    All Catholics have to “fight” and discipline their “natural” sexual inclinations and desires. We are all called to live out our sexuality in accordance with Divine Law and revelation and resist our “objective disorders” such as:
    1. the temptation to masturbate . . . .
    2. the curiosity and desire to indulge in porn . . . .
    3. Polygamy
    4. Polyamory
    5. the desire or impulse to indulge sexual fetishes
    6. the desire or impulse to pursue deviant sexual fantasies
    7. lustful dreams, daydreams, and thoughts

    So are all the above people, who are experiencing these “natural sexual” feelings, born that way and therefore not morally accountable? Absolutely not.
    Remember, the temptation and impulse toward sexual deviation, perversion, and impurity is NOT the sin. These distorted urges are in ALL PEOPLE. And these sexual urges are objective science. Science recording the broken natural world.
    But sexual “action” is when it becomes a sin. As soon as we use our rational free will to “act out” these “objectively disordered” sexual urges, desires, and impulses, then they move from science to morality. Sexual temptation and deviance desires are science. Sexual acts are morality.
    Once we “choose” to masturbate- we sin.
    Once we “choose” to engage in sodomy- we sin.
    Once we “choose” to have an affair with another person- we sin.
    Once we “choose” to watch porn– we sin.
    Once we “choose” to engage in frottage or tribbing– we sin.
    Once we “choose” to indulge and engage in a sexual fantasy- we sin.

    The RCC must be very clear and firm on this issue.

  20. Chris Garton-Zavesky says:

    I think it may have been part of the plan of Pope Francis, but I’m not sure we agree as to how it might have been part of his plan.

    To use a medical image, there has been an infection within the ranks of the clergy for decades — one might almost say an autoimmune deficiency — and successive popes have tried to bring the disease to the surface so that it can be treated and cured. Only when the full scope of the disease is known can an effective treatment be applied.

    On the one hand, my family and I have been praying to St. Michael on behalf of the Synod. On the other, we’re hopeful that His Holiness knows what he’s up against, and knows the ceremony for the unmaking of a Cardinal. Think how many prelates will be gathered together.

  21. Gaetano says:

    Heterodox seminary candidates can be rooted out with five questions:

    1. What happens at the Consecration?

    2. Does anyone go the Hell?

    3. Can women receive Holy Orders?

    4. Are all sexual acts using artificial contraception sinful?

    5. Are all sexual acts outside of the marriage of one man and one woman sinful?

    It’s not that hard.

    [People can lie. It happens all the time.]

  22. Nan says:

    He must’ve been very sure of himself to issue such demands. Poor deluded priest. I will continue my prayers for priests, that they have the strength to remain holy.

  23. TNCath says:

    Get ready; it’s going to be a bumpy ride. I just listened to a re-run of Cardinal Burke’s address at the Franciscan University at Steubenville about the upcoming Synod on EWTN. The Evil One is definitely at work at this Synod. All we can do at this point is pray unceasingly and trust in the Holy Spirit.

  24. St. Rafael says:

    Elizabeth D,

    The huge problem is that these same-sex attracted priests do not have a vocation to the priesthood. [You don’t know that and you can’t say that.] They should never have been ordained and become priests in the first place. [Probably true, but it happens.] It’s going to be difficult for these men. [It isn’t easy even if you don’t have that affliction.] The honest thing is for these men to do is to leave the priesthood, but unfortunately that is going to cost the Church anywhere from one third to half her priests! [NO! I almost simply deleted your comment because of that. That’s just not true and I want people to know that I’ve told you that.] What a mess. The heterosexual men who should have been the priests instead of these men are a lost generation.

  25. MouseTemplar says:

    Information, please. If he is fired from his positions, is he still able to work as a priest? What does Fr. Z mean when he says this man is “done as a priest”? Does he no longer have permission to offer the sacraments? Or will they simply send him elsewhere to work in a parish?

    All of this going on in the Church makes me frantically desperate as a parent to protect my son from being taught error or even seeing a holy priest of God from living like this Monsignor. [His fate is now in the hands of his diocesan bishop. I can’t imagine that he will be allowed to function back home, after these antics.]

  26. SanSan says:

    Thank you Father Z for sharing Church Militant with your readership. We’ve got some great MEN, Voris, Pentin, etc. bringing us the truth as it happens in Rome.

  27. MikeM says:

    If he wanted to quit his job, why didn’t he just say so?

  28. Catholics like this, those that haughtily make demands, especially under false assumptions of Church Teaching, ill conceived notions of morality, and radically misguided biblical interpretations, are the wolves in sheep’s clothing that have been systematically dismantling Our Lord’s Church from within. Intended malice or not, they must be corrected and the Faithful redirected back to the Truth before diocese after diocese completely unravel one after the other.

  29. Polycarpio says:

    I do agree with ONE of Charamsa’s suggestions: there should be a survey of SSA priests, at least at the Vatican. We need to know what we’re up against.

  30. Sid Cundiff in NC says:

    “the conference was held in a restaurant” Does anyone know the name of the restaurant? I don’t think I would wish to eat there the next time that I am in Rome.

  31. jacobi says:

    The carefully timed statement by Charamsa confirms what has been an open secret for years now. The active homosexual lobby in the Vatican and widely elsewhere in the Church, is alive and well.

    One must assume that Charamsa and the many others like him, believe they are not in mortal sin in their actions. Therefore, they are FORMALLY heretical and incur automatic excommunication.

    No Catholic may therefore attend their services or their Sacramental procedures.

    The second session of the Synod was always going to be a messy, confused, Relativised, drawn out affair. With this, I suppose inevitable intervention in retrospect, that is now be confirmed and any consideration of the Family as such will probably be totally overshadowed.

    What a mess!

  32. acardnal says:

    Some wonder why men don’t attend Mass. Too many effeminate priests is one reason! And bishops are at fault.

  33. Fr. Hamilton says:

    We should have authentic sympathy and compassion for the man. He needs much prayer. Points in the video he becomes very animated and you get the sense he represents a rage that causes concern. There are any number of things about this situation that disappoint and concern me. I will focus on only one, one which I think supports Fr. Z’s advice to be on guard and to get prepared for the rabid protests that may come surrounding the Synod and into the future: The one thing I note is that this video is not some impromptu sit down with a TV journalist. This is a planned, scripted, and slick video, which tells me there is indeed a massive campaign ramping up, a campaign that has now found its Vatican insider poster boy.

    May God visit us with His mercy!

  34. robtbrown says:

    I agree that it was timed for the Synod, but I think it will have the opposite effect that the sodomites and dissenters hoped to see.

  35. Pingback: Ahead of the Synod: Breaking the Vows | Isorropia

  36. Clinton R. says:

    The pope, as the Successor of St. Peter, as the Vicar of Christ, will need to firmly uphold the Church’s teachings on marriage and homosexuality. The views of Krzysztof Charamsa are unfortunately the same held by far too many Catholics, both clergy and laity.

    The wolves are foaming at the mouth. The lion is roaring. The gates of hell are banging louder than ever. Let us pray that God may give Pope Francis the strength and grace to do His will at the synod. +JMJ+

  37. albizzi says:

    The “coming out” of this poor gay priest is not as scandalous as keeping Card. Danneels, the pro-abort, paedohile friendly Mafia plotter against Pope Benedict, participating in the pending Synod.

  38. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Fr. Z observes with respect to “Msgr. Krzysztof Charamsa, is a professor at the Pontifical Gregorian University [a Jesuit institution] and has been on the Vatican’s International Theological Commission since 2009”, “big deal”. How big a deal is it or isn’t it, and why? Of the ITC, the Vatican website says, “The Commission is composed of theologians from diverse schools and nations, noted for their knowledge and faithfulness to the Magisterium of the Church. The members, which number no more than 30, are nominated by the Holy Father ad quinquennium after having been proposed by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation and after consultation with the Bishops’ Conferences.” Was there anything Cardinal Levada might have known in 2009 (or 2011 – the date listed on the Vatican site) that should have prevented him appointing Msgr. Charamsa or raised grave questions about him during his tenure as ITC President?

    In what capacity is he “working at the Congregration for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF)”, and since when? (I can find no relevant details on the Vatican site.)

    How typical, or atypical, of those working there and/or on the ITC are his revisionist ideas concerning four major CDF documents and part of the CCC?

    [The ITC doesn’t/can’t issue official doctrinal statements. They have nothing to do with the Church’s Magisterium. So he worked for them. Big Deal. If, while he did worked for the CDF, he stuck to his job description and didn’t impose false or heretical or questionable ideas on his work, big deal. And there are roles in the CDF that don’t have much to do with the heavy duty review of theologians, etc.]

  39. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    What does “notwithstanding the respect due to the events and personal situations, and reflections on the issue [nonostante il rispetto che meritano le vicende e le situazioni personali e le riflessioni su di esse]”mean, or is it likely to mean?

  40. Grumpy Beggar says:

    I’d have to agree with the choice of the word “deluded” in the OP’s assessment , and this , without any malice intended . From a purely analytical perspective , “deluded” fits.

    ” 7. Revision of the interpretation of biblical texts on homosexuality.”

    Maybe Msgr Charamsa could get a little help on that one from several of the, umm, exegetes over at Fishwrap. But why stop on that one subject. . . Heck , why not re-interpret the entire Bible at the same time so that adulterers, child molesters, thieves, pimps, pushers and murderers/abortionists,extortionists, pornographers, Supreme Court Justices, Pelosis and the rest of us sinners aren’t discriminated against by homosexual activists ? Why should it only be their sins that are declared non-sins ? What about the rest of us ? So I say, do the whole bible again so that it can rationalize away all our sins – not just the sins of active homosexuality. Maybe they could call this new bible the King Shame’s Version .

    Let’s make sure we don’t miss this next one as well – solid proof that one cannot but be deluded:

    ” 5. Immediate cancellation of discriminatory instructions about denying the priesthood to homosexual persons.”

    What is really being attacked here is priestly celibacy. Let’s not forget that these are the words of a “poor man” who already admits to active homosexuality – he has a “boyfriend”. He has become his own worst argument: According to his lifestyle and his own words, he thinks every homosexual should have a “boyfriend” and should be admitted to the priesthood too . . . deluded.

    According to, in psychiatry, delusional is defined thus:

    “maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness.”

    In 1973 the Homosexual Activists Intimidated American Psychiatric Association into Removing Homosexuality from List of Disorders.

    Hmmm . . .

    If Msgr Charamsa really believes what he’s saying, his head and emotions had to have become one big mess. If he really believes what he’s saying, then he is no longer able to tell the truth from the lies. Ouch !
    I guess it would be a good idea for me to pray for him.

  41. donato2 says:

    I bet the pro-Kasperites are the angriest of anyone about this. This fellow was so deluded as to not understand that the game is to keep the agenda secret as it is pursued incrementally.

    How could a priest with such beliefs, even if hidden, have worked in the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith for so long? How many more like him are still there?

  42. KingofCharity says:

    The RCC doesn’t need to back peddle on their “objective disorder” language in reference to homosexuality. It is the truth. There is no other way to state Gospel truth. Say it for what it is. Rather, the RCC Magisterium needs to intensify and expand its catechetical and doctrinal language to include ALL human beings, except the Blessed Mother, as objectively and intrinsically disordered. This will prevent the Catechism for singly out homosexuals as “objectively disordered.” I it is precisely this “disordering” that we proudly confess and accept since we do not want to make a liar out of God and a mockery of the need for His Incarnation, Holy Life, Teaching, Passion, Death, and Resurrection.
    Is their erotic attraction toward people of the same sex in accordance with Natural Law? No. But neither are all the other sexual perversions, deviations, impulses, desires, fetishes, and lustful fancies of all humans– even healthy heterosexuals struggle with disciplining their sexual drive and instincts. We are all intrinsically disordered in our entire humanity. The Church must confirm this. Admitting this reality isn’t destructive to our self-esteem. It confirms the necessity of Christ’s Incarnation. Christ veiled himself in Flesh in order to drive out our demons and heal us from the brokenness of the Fall. To say that we are all perfect “the way we are,” makes a liar out of God. Calvary is the remedy to our disordered natures. Christ’s blood is the antidote to all of our intrinsic imperfections. We are all wounded and none of us are perfect the way we are.
    The Church must clearly state that all humans, except the Blessed Mother, have or have had concupiscence, brokenness, addictions, and all other effects of the Fall in the following areas:
    1. Mentally- mental illness, cognitive disorders, retardation, brain disease,
    2. Physically- sickness, sentient sufferings, viruses, bacteria, cancers, congenital defects, and . . . ultimately death.
    3. Spiritually- we no longer have an unequivocal awareness and incontrovertible knowledge of God. We know God through the sacramental veil and through liturgy, prayer, and charity. We are still required to cultivate the virtue of faith (in heaven there is no need for faith) as the Militant, Pilgrim Church. So, spiritually, we can wander away from God. Neglect to pray, abuse the sacraments, doubt our faith, etc. We are all spiritually disordered.
    4. Socially- all of our social bonds and relationships have been stained by sin. That is why Christ brought forgiveness to the world. He knew we needed healing in our families and friendships.
    5. Emotionally– people are all emotionally disordered at times- we struggles with he stages of grief, we become anxious and depressed. We lose our tempers. We become enslaved to our emotions, appetites, and desires. We sometimes think with our emotions rather than our intellects.
    6. Intellectually– all people are intellectually wounded. Although creation is intelligible, we still struggle to access objective truth at times. The scientific method can even be tainted by political agendas and personal bias. We have grown arrogant through our knowledge.
    7. Sexually– We are all sexually disordered to some degree. It doesn’t mean that “God made a mistake.” It means that creation is still in an imperfect state. It is still in a state of journeying toward its full glorification in Christ. The effects of Satan’s Fall and Man’s Fall still plague creation and matter is enslaved to decay and disorder. The Catechism reminds us that there is still Physical Evil in the world- cancer, tornados, entropy, hurricanes, sickness, famine, droughts, plagues, earthquakes, car “accidents.” etc. The effects of “human free will” are still about us as well. In addition, since the fall of Satan and the demons, there is demonic temptation and influence within the world. Christ came to drive them out and give us sacramental armor to fight and defeat them. We are in spiritual warfare. This all means that we are sexually disordered to some degree.
    It is “natural” to feel temptations, desires, erotic urges, deviant curiosities that all pull us toward
    masturbation, pornography, polyamory, orgies, fetishes, perversions, homosexaulity.
    Not to mention the grave sexual disorders of ephebophilia, pedophilia, incest, beastiality

    So, the RCC must regain her sense of Divine Mission. She has already been given the answers to all of these “modern problems.” The answers are soundly provided in her Tradition, Scriptures, Catechisms, Papal Bulls, Encyclicals, and lives of the Saints. She is the Church Militant- the anticipation of the Kingdom of God- the voice that speaks Divine Truth.
    Simply tell people that these disorders are not in line with Natural Law or Divine Law. They are the consequences of the Fall of Satan and the Fall of Man- physical and moral evil.

  43. gsk says:

    @ipadre: interesting theory, but accurate or not (we’ll soon see) we must prepare for outrage if/when the synod defends traditional Church teaching. We were given a preview in the widespread “spittle-flecked nutty” (TM) that ensued upon the discovery that Pope Francis had actually met with Kim Davis. It eventually subsided when the Vatican explained the circumstances (and Fr James Martin was on the cutting edge of that deft spin) but all the same, it was a Jekyll-Hyde transformation that showed how precarious the newfound “faith” really is in the Justice+Peace+Laudato Si wing of the Church. No matter the outcome, and no matter the degree of precision in the summarising document, there will be tremendous tension in the foreseeable future.

  44. juergensen says:

    This could actually be good news for the Church and bad news for the sodomite forces behind the “Synod on the Family”. Now that sodomite infiltration of the Church at the highest levels – CDF, Pontifical Gregorian University – is out and undeniable, the faithful bishops of the Church should be spurred to defense of the Church against the sodomites seeking to take it down at the “Synod”. Now we know who Benedict was talking about when he prayed for protection from the “wolves” inside the Church.

  45. JKnott says:

    Well we all know it but here is something from a mystic.
    Blessed Alexandrina da Costa (1904-1955) –a Portuguese mystic and stigmatic> The Lord told her:
    “Tell my ministers to be vigilant, for the devil is preparing a massive assault on the Church .”

    Bishop Olmsted’s new Apostolic Exhortation “Into the Breach” is magnificent. A breath of fresh air to counter the heavy, smothering atmosphere of homosexual agendas.

  46. avecrux says:

    If you look at Msgr Charamsa’s body language in the video posted (from about a minute on) it is pretty clear that he is a very angry man.

  47. cdet1997 says:

    Can someone please explain how a guy can go through seminary, serve as a transitional deacon, become ordained, serve as a priest in Rome and in the CDF of all places, and still not understand that the Church teaching on homosexual behavior is eternal truth revealed by the Almighty? We’re not taking about a run-of-the-mill poorly catechized Catholic who goes to Mass occasionally and hasn’t seen the inside of a confessional in decades. We’re talking about a highly educated and ordained priest who’s served in the one dicastery that’s most responsible for doctrine! How does he not understand a fundamental concept that speaks to the ontological nature of the Roman Catholic Church?

  48. gatormom says:

    This display was totally contrived well in advance. I do NOT believe the Vatican was as blindsided by this “irresponsible” manifesto as they are presenting themselves. He played his part. It seems to go along with a pretty well choreographed and scripted performance by a large and well rehearsed troop of actors. Just some rogue gay priest? No way! He just got carried away by delusions? My goodness, if you believe that, I just don’t know how. This is craziness, just crazy. Wonderful to pray and that is certainly all I can do. Some men with Holy Orders out there need to defend us; we are your sheep. We need to be protected! I don’t expect it from Pope Francis so if there are men of God left in our Church it looks like you might want to start inching out of your chair now. God helps those that helps themselves and I can’t imagine He loves watching His children cowering in fear of sodomites and crying out begging for divine intervention. I know as a Mother, I would not be pleased to watch my boys do that. How about walk out on this synod?! If you aren’t a homosexual heretic just get up and go. FAMILY!?!? This synod and this Papacy is all about the destruction of the family and the damnation of as many souls as possible. Devout Catholics are discouraged and begin to doubt all they ever believed and those outside the Church are ratified and encouraged to remain there. We will meet there, way outside the Church. Subsidiarity requires obedience to God first, no?

  49. Bea says:

    I watched the video. Made my skin crawl. If only he were so passionate for fighting sin, keeping the Lord’s Commandments and defending the teachings of Christ, instead of his passion for defending homosexuality, then, he would have been a great priest.

    ipadre said:
    ” Maybe this is the plan of Pope Francis. What was once said in the dark is now being proclaimed in the light of day.”
    I have been thinking along those lines, My husband thought I was being naive and just wishful thinking, but…..who knows. Cockroaches usually scatter when the light is turned on but with this light of day they appear to feel safe, and as RobtBrown said:”Pus is oozing from the infection” and that’s the only way to cure it.

    Nan said:
    “He must’ve been very sure of himself to issue such demands.”
    Yes, that, and he must’ve felt sure that he would have the backing of the Synod Bishops that are in charge, too.

    I, so weep for my Beloved Church and shake my head in wondering why. But in the end that is the sign that it IS the One True Church, because satan attacks it so vehemently.

  50. Norah says:

    To Dissenting Priests
    “It is your duty to fix the lines (of doctrine) clearly in your minds: and if you wish to go beyond them you must change your profession. This is your duty not specially as Christians or as priests but as honest men. There is a danger here of the clergy developing a special professional conscience which obscures the very plain moral issue. Men who have passed beyond these boundary lines in either direction are apt to protest that they have come by their unorthodox opinions honestly. In defense of those opinions they are prepared to suffer obloquy and to forfeit professional advancement. They thus come to feel like martyrs. But this simply misses the point which so gravely scandalizes the layman. We never doubted that the unorthodox opinions were honestly held: what we complain of is your continuing in your ministry after you have come to hold them. We always knew that a man who makes his living as a paid agent of the Conservative Party may honestly change his views and honestly become a Communist. What we deny is that he can honestly continue to be a Conservative agent and to receive money from one party while he supports the policy of the other.”

    –from Christian Apologetics by C.S. Lewis, Easter 1945.
    (Reprinted in God in the Dock pp. 89-90)

  51. ejcmartin says:

    I am beginning to wonder that if, just maybe, Pope Francis has being using a form of the Delphi Technique all along. Get them talking and thinking they are being heard and change is coming. In this case make them feel just confident enough to start nailing demands on the door. Just give them enough rope….

  52. SanSan says:

    I believe “iPadre” is on to something……

  53. Kathleen10 says:

    We are witnesses to a very real spiritual and temporal battle being waged over the church and the world. This is it, the one so many have sensed for so long. It is much more intense now, as we see the power seats are filled with lost men, who are getting worked up to fever pitch, so close do they feel they are to their demented “victory”.
    They may feel they have their man, they may even have their man, but regardless, time is of the essence. To these men of no supernatural faith, who don’t worry about the intervention of God, their time is now and they must get what they have wanted for so many years. As we see happened to Cardinal Burke, it is a time to be ruthless and just get it done. He was no doubt a stone in many people’s shoe, and he had to go, publicly, and with maximum humiliation. Another example of the progressives overplaying their hand and making themselves obvious, but they may not care at this point. Why use subtlety now?
    The Kim Davis Scandal has clearly demonstrated that to go off message is not allowed within the cabal. That to them was an unfortunate breach, which they corrected by, simply redefining what happened for the media and public with YOUR truth. Simply take over the facts and make them what you desire, then rinse and repeat. It doesn’t matter if it’s true, what matters is you say it. Kim Davis and her people know what happened and that the Vatican is lying, millions know it now, but that doesn’t matter to them. What is a lie?
    The United States happens to be experiencing the same type of machinations in our current government, so we are well aware of how this works. We’ve watched homofascism and other evil lies take over our culture and we know how angry and driven these people are now. They will grind you under their wheels if you get in their way. It is only people with Truth, integrity, and spines who stand in their way.

  54. donato2 says:

    Msgr. Charamsa is the Polish version of the U.S.’s Father Cutie (remember him?). Both have the same narcissism expressed as indignation about the Church’s refusal to bless their preferred unholy proclivities.

  55. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    The timing:

    Dr. Williams writes, “Privately, Vatican sources told Breitbart that the story may be a bit more complicated than Charamsa is presenting it, noting that he preempted disciplinary action by coming out himself, endeavoring to capture ‘victim status’ before being outed.” The phrasing seems to allow both ‘preempted hypothetical possible disciplinary action’ and ‘preempted actual disciplinary action already “in he works” ‘:

  56. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    The professed scope of Monsignor’s ambitions:

    One of Dr. Williams’s linked sources quotes him, “I want to be an advocate for all sexual minorities and their families who have suffered in silence”, though also indirectly quoting him that “he presented a 10-point ‘liberation manifesto’ against ‘institutionalised homophobia in the Church’, which he said particularly oppressed the gay men who, according to him, make up the majority of priests.”

    And further, “He also revealed plans for a book about his 12 years at the heart of a Vatican bureaucracy”. Twelve years in the CDF – if that is what it means – would put his arrival in the same year as the issuing of Considerations Regarding Proposals to Legalize Unions Between Homosexual Persons – 2003 – also with Cardinal Ratzinger’s time as Prefect (until 2 April 2005). Dr. Williams writes of “Charamsa, who only became an active homosexual while in the priesthood”, and that “Though Charamsa says he thinks he was always gay, he denied it for years, submitting ‘zealously to the teaching of the Church and to the life it forced upon me.’ It was only later that he took the step of acting on his inclinations” – with no indications as to the dates of any of this.

    Significantly or not, Monsignor’s “all sexual minorities and their families” has a disquieting similarity to Fr. Lombardi’s (or his statement writer’s) choice of words – ” “the only real audience […] was with one of his former students and his family” – to describe Mr. Grassi, his catamite, and some “friends” (Mr. Grassi’s term).

  57. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Fr. Z,

    Thank you for your response about the ITC – and CDF! As to “They have nothing to do with the Church’s Magisterium”, one might quibble by noting they say it “is composed of theologians […] noted for their knowledge and faithfulness to the Magisterium.” But as you remark elsewhere above, “People can lie. It happens all the time.” So, on one important level we must look to their publications, public statements, etc. Perhaps in the last five years, Monsignor had there still been “submitting ‘zealously to the teaching of the Church and to the life it forced upon me’ ” – or always and to everyone appearing to do so. And similarly within the CDF. Since, however, we do not know what he did or how he did it – perhaps with more or less guarded openness among however many more or less like-minded colleagues – I am still left wondering how big a deal is it or isn’t it, in fact.

  58. JamesM says:

    I agree strongly with Fr.Z that the guidelines against the ordination of men with deep seated homosexual inclinations need to be strengthened.

  59. Peter Stuart says:

    Meanwhile, the Courage Apostolate continues to struggle to be heard. Considering the hostility and indifference the apostolate continues to face among many members of the USCCB, it looks as if a lot of us SSA Catholics who strive to remain chaste better not hold our breath waiting for a seat, or a voice, at the table.

  60. Veritatis Splendor says:

    The communists employed all of the old members of the Polish Underground after they liberated Poland so they could kill all those who resisted. Perhaps the same thing is happening. This could be the beginnings of a purge.

  61. Veritatis Splendor says:

    Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

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  63. Gregg the Obscure says:

    Dear Lord Jesus Christ, the eyes of all men now look on those who are entrusted in a special way with the care of your Bride as they deliberate in Synod. Knowing that the gates of hell shall never prevail against Your Holy Church, yet aware of many denials and betrayals by current bishops and their predecessors, we come to you begging that this event give no scandal to the faithful, no compromise to Your revealed truth, no comfort to the enemies of Holy Church and no plausible pretext for those who seek to continue in unrepented mortal sin. Fill your children with a passionate zeal to cleanse the world of the grievous offenses against human dignity found in polygamy, divorce, concubinage, bastardy, fornication, pornography, promiscuity, sexual obsession, child abuse, the love of violence, relativism and all other forms of idolatry, eugenics and euthanasia in all their many forms, the misguided tolerance of sexual depravity as a behavior and the most reprehensible of all atrocities, the imposition of sexual depravity as a component of human identity and as a sacrilegious substitute for human families to the extent that those who have fallen into these sins come to repentance; those who advocate the open practice of such evils be debilitated by shame and guilt; those whose minds are unstained by knowledge of such sins remain innocent; those who learn of such atrocities be overwhelmed with contempt, disgust, horror and revulsion at them; and that no human society ever again deem sexual depravity a topic suitable for public mention. Amen.

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  65. frjim4321 says:

    My take on this is that the closet is a very unhealthy place, so anytime a person is able to step forward in this way it’s a good thing. Recent pressures placed on gay seminarians, priests and bishops have simply made it harder and harder for them to embrace their sexuality as mature adults. They are pushed further into the shadows. Alcoholism and other problems are exacerbated. The scapegoating of gay men for the sexual abuse crisis and the aforementioned 2005 instruction are prominent examples. If we want to have healthy clergy we have to come in to the 21st Century with respect to our understanding and acceptance of sexuality.

  66. Cradle Catholic says:

    ejcmartin, your comment at 7:18a.m. Oct 4. …if that is the ploy of Pope Francis, (which I sincerely doubt), he has put down (e.g his insults against Traditional Catholics) and scandalized many of the orthodox faithful, causing them much pain.

    No, I think I’m much more inclined to believe Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider: the Church is in crisis. This pope’s actions, not only in calling the Synod of the Family, but also in releasing a new annulment process that Fr. Gerald Murray, a cannon lawyer, recommends being scrapped, shows disdain for the carefully cultivated praxis, that embodies the doctrines of the Church. (See attached link-if Fr Z allows – of Fr. Murray’s post on “The Catholic Thing” below). Alas, …we are in for some very rough times.

  67. Elizabeth D says:

    St Rafael, I concur with Fr Z’s responses to you. Same-sex attracted priests exist so I pray and do penance asking God’s grace for them to have purity of heart and lives of Christian perfection.

  68. SaintJude6 says:

    And I believe GatorMom is onto something. I would soundly beat my grown son with my wooden spoon if he were ever to put out such rubbish. You want to see some “condemnation” son? I’ll give you condemnation.

  69. midwestmom says:

    I’m guessing my email to the CDF about a Midwest bishop kowtowing to the gay lobby was deleted upon receipt. Call me, Pope Francis; my vetting abilities are pretty amazing!

  70. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    When I wrote above of Fr. Lombardi’s (or his statement writer’s) choice of words – ” “the only real audience […] was with one of his former students and his family” – I had not yet seen his later statement “Regarding the Meeting of Pope Francis with Mr. Yayo Grassi in Washington, DC” in which he no longer uses the expression “one of his former students and his family”, introducing instead a reference to “his mother and several friends”. This is the first reference I have seen anywhere to Mr. Grassi’s mother, but if she is whom the earlier reference to “la famiglia” referred, it seems a rather awkward totus pro parte (even should she be strictly ‘all the family he now has’). If Fr. Lombardi wished to distinguish Mr. Grassi’s catamite for the past 19 years from being part of “his family”, he might have done so more clearly than by subsuming him under “several friends”.

  71. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Edward Pentin writes, “Msgr. Charamsa, 43, was known in the Vatican as a diligent, scholarly individual who taught theology at the Pontifical Gregorian University. He reportedly never said anything to undermine Church teaching, but acquaintances noticed that his demeanor and appearance radically changed after he started a relationship with another man.” He does not record when the latter too place, nor elaborate what else any of these acquaintances did, or refrained from doing, in the circumstances.

  72. gatormom says:

    Frjim4321, People are awfully confused about homosexuals in general right now. I am not at all confused about homosexuals. Homosexuals are 100% responsible for the sexual abuse crisis. You sir are a liar. Homosexuals aren’t too fond of a God who would condemn them to Hell for their mortal sins so they enter the Church to destroy Her. And they sure have a great time in their sick depraved boys club along the way. You all are fooling a great number of people right now but you will not prevail. And man let me tell you, those who have hurt God’s beautiful baby boys in the way your buddies have will receive a justice someday that is horrifying to contemplate. I pray for your immortal souls but I want you ALL OUT of our priesthood.

  73. Gregg the Obscure says:

    To the extent “the closet is a very unhealthy place”, it’s because it’s a place for those who are sick to begin with. One purpose of it is – like other forms of quarantine – to attempt to limit the spread of the sickness. Another is to remind the sinner of the shamefulness of that sin. Optimally those who suffer from this particular sin will seek help, just as all of us should seek help in dealing with our own sins of whatever nature.

  74. ocleirbj says:

    Dear gatormom, I understand that you feel strongly about this issue, but I regret your intemperate language towards Frjim4321. How does this encourage people of a different opinion to listen willingly to you? — it doesn’t. As to the point that he made, it is true that the closet is an unhealthy place. People who are physically attracted to the same sex and do not feel that they can honestly enter a heterosexual marriage have a difficult cross to bear, and they do need to work out how they can best deal with it. Those who are believing Christians will recognize that their lifelong spiritual challenge is to live in chaste celibacy in their physical being, while keeping their hearts open to loving, fruitful friendships and their spirits renewed and refreshed by the presence of God. All Christians seek [or ought to seek] to ground their lives in the love of Jesus, and to pray that His love becomes so present to us that it motivates everything we do. Then, “if you love me, you will keep my commandments.” Only in this way can anyone live out their vocation in this world in a way that both satisfies our soul and pleases God. Msgr Charamsa may have entered the priesthood thinking that he would be able to live out a loving, celibate commitment to Christ and the Church, but evidently he has chosen another path. Who knows what temptations may have beset him, in a culture which considers resistance to be oppression, and celebrates surrender as a victory? Poor man. Pray for priests!

  75. The Masked Chicken says:

    “If we want to have healthy clergy we have to come in to the 21st Century with respect to our understanding and acceptance of sexuality.”


    Let me repeat that:


    The Chicken

  76. Ferde Rombola says:

    Fr. Hamilton and others who see this priest’s performance as a scripted and deliberate assault on the Church have it right. I believe it is a comtining part of the global strategy to normalize homosexuality by announcing the outrageous until it becomes the merely offensive, then push the merely offensive until it becomes an accepted item of debate. Once we arrive at that state, it’s only a matter of time before the secular culture takes over and wins the day. Keep an eye out for the next outrage.

    My Archdiocese is part of that strategy. We have a priest who regularly pushes the homosexual agenda. He has, from the pulpit during a Mass attended by many children, compared a pair of practicing homosexuals to the Holy Family. His parishioners complained to our bishop and demanded his removal. The bishop, a member of the Pope’s inner circle of advisers, Sean Patrick O’Malley, the Cardinal Archbishop of Boston, ignored the complaints. The priest is, at this time leading a conglomerate of three parishes and now pushes his heresies from his new pulpit, the diocesan newspaper.

    Cardinal O’Malley had been coddling homosexuals for years. He is an absentee bishop who has placed a pair of homosexuals in charge of the Archdiocese. He is the fox in the hen house that is the Archdiocese of Boston.

  77. JesusFreak84 says:

    And the sad thing is how many of us are barely shocked by this anymore… =-

  78. robtbrown says:

    frjim4321 says:

    My take on this is that the closet is a very unhealthy place, so anytime a person is able to step forward in this way it’s a good thing. Recent pressures placed on gay seminarians, priests and bishops have simply made it harder and harder for them to embrace their sexuality as mature adults.

    I don’t think celibates should try to “embrace their sexuality” because by definition there is no outlet for such emotions. IMHO, celibates trying to come to terms with their sexuality are turning back on themselves–much like vernacular, versus populum celebration of mass. It is a project doomed to fail.

    Because of the nature of celibacy, celibates in the Montini Church can possibly have some confused notions about what they are. On the other hand, I rather doubt that the 40+ monks (15 years ago they came from France with c. 12) at Clear Creek or those priests in the FSSP are concerned with embracing their sexuality. That is because the transcendental character has not been taken from their lives.

  79. frjim4321 says:

    To the extent “the closet is a very unhealthy place”, it’s because it’s a place for those who are sick to begin with. One purpose of it is – like other forms of quarantine – to attempt to limit the spread of the sickness. Another is to remind the sinner of the shamefulness of that sin. Optimally those who suffer from this particular sin will seek help, just as all of us should seek help in dealing with our own sins of whatever nature. GtO

    I don’t think the pathology model works very well for sexual orientation for a number of reasons. First, sexuality is embedded in the personality from a very early age, certainly before the “age of reason.” Therefore equating sexual orientation with sin is not logical since sin requires election. [Why should we accept your premise? People make choices. They are not critters subject only to appetites and impulses.]

    Second, the relationship between sexuality and personality is very strong and involves much more than various decisions with respect to conduct.

  80. SKAY says:

    ocleirbj said:

    “Msgr Charamsa may have entered the priesthood thinking that he would be able to live out a loving, celibate commitment to Christ and the Church, but evidently he has chosen another path. Who knows what temptations may have beset him, in a culture which considers resistance to be oppression, and celebrates surrender as a victory? Poor man. Pray for priests!”

    If he felt so oppressed then he could have left the priesthood instead of demanding that the Church turn itself into something other than the bride of Christ in order for him to feel more
    comfortable in his sin.
    Frankly I am waiting for the other shoe to fall like it did on the visit with Kim Davis.
    I had hoped that the Church realized some mistakes that had been made before and during the priest scandals but now I am beginning to wonder. I always felt that Pope Benedict understood the
    harm that had been done and trusted that things were going to improve. Does everyone have amnesia?? I now have no idea where things will be going and agree with the comments of gatormom and Kathleen10.
    I am truly grateful for the many wonderful priests we do have who are good shepherds and they are always in my prayers.

  81. KateD says:

    In the 10 point manifesto from Krzysztof Charamsa, is he using the “royal we”; Does he have a multiple personality disorder; Or is it Legion speaking through him?

    If it is none of the above then who are the rest of the “we”? They need to go, too.

    Is this priest’s ordination invalid (like an invalid marriage), since Charamsa had to have employed duplicity in order to obtain the sacrament of Holy Orders?

  82. Peter Stuart says:

    People make choices. They are not critters subject only to appetites and impulses.

    Thanks, Fr. Z, for the affirmation that SSA Catholics like me can choose to affirm chastity in our lives. To dress up politically correct agendas in pseudo-clinical language that denies free will is to kick us when we’re down, and I really wish so-called “experts” and liberal priests would knock it off.

  83. Grumpy Beggar says:

    Whether sexuality may be “embedded in a person from a very young age” , the unfortunate and terrible truth is that a very young age also happens to be that time when the homosexual indoctrination of children begins . . . “as young as 5 years old”even. This child menticide has been going on for some time now. By and large, parents are almost helpless to stop it once it has become legislation : Their parental rights as first educators of their own children get trampled under the tyranny and din of the gay militants.

    Several examples:
    As far back as 1999, it was reported that the National Education Association was cooperating with the Clinton Administration to install homosexual teaching

    As early as 2001 it was reported that the homosexual agenda was escalating in public schools

    In 2009 , FOX News reported that parents were bullied into accepting a new curriculum that . . . includes compulsory lessons about the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community that will be taught to children as young as 5 years old (This doesn’t just happen in California – it’s going on in other states too and they’ve been doing it up here in Canada for years).

    By 2013 it was a given that kids are systematically bombarded by this agenda in schools

    Neither has there been any valid scientific proof ever put forward that homosexuality is hard wired – no matter how engrained it may have become in an individual.

    gatormom’s post reminds me of a mother bear when someone has gotten between her and her cubs . I think Catholic mother bears are great : They give me confidence that our Blessed Mother will come quickly to my aid when I invoke her help in getting my own feet out of the muck.

  84. The Cobbler says:

    “…scientific reflection over the morality of…”

  85. Gregg the Obscure says:

    “equating sexual orientation with sin is not logical since sin requires election” . Sorry I wasn’t sufficiently clear. I didn’t say that. I equated it with sickness. A person who is sick is not (under ordinary circumstances anyway) at fault for being sick. How a person acts on any given sickness can certainly be sinful.

    ” sexuality is embedded in the personality from a very early age” – so are many other potentially sinful traits. I have had a terrible temper since I was a small child. One could say I was “born that way” as my mother, her siblings, my grandfather and several cousins have the same stereotypical Germanic trait. I have had to learn over the years to control how I act on feelings of anger. Sometimes I don’t do so well, while sometimes by the grace of God things work out fine. Were I to pretend that my bad temper was a virtue, I’d be doing a grave disservice to everyone I know.

    Each of us faces many temptations and dangers. I suggest that no one make resisting temptation more difficult than it already is.

  86. Grumpy Beggar says:

    I didn’t see the words/term “sexual orientation” appear at all anywhere in the post by Gregg the Obscure which preceded this one just above.

    Homosexuals insist we use this expression (which the gay lobby fabricated) sexual orientation instead of sexual preference which was quite common in use before the homosexual militants started bullying everyone. They want everybody to replace the term sexual preference with sexual orientation. Why ? Well, as Dr. Ronnie Floyd points out, on pages 59 & 60 of his book The Gay Agenda ,it also serves to keep people confused:

    “Another disliked term, according to GLADD is sexual preference.The group prefers the subtle-but-vital change sexual orientation. A change of only one word but in reality a paradigm shift. No longer is the gay lifestyle a choice ; it is now beyond one’s control. Just as one does not choose one’s eye color , so too , one is gay by orientation. We must be aware of these efforts to re-frame the argument.”

  87. benedictgal says:

    The words of the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger have, sadly, come to pass:

    What can the third fall of Jesus under the Cross say to us? We have considered the fall of man in general, and the falling of many Christians away from Christ and into a godless secularism. Should we not also think of how much Christ suffers in his own Church? How often is the holy sacrament of his Presence abused, how often must he enter empty and evil hearts! How often do we celebrate only ourselves, without even realizing that he is there! How often is his Word twisted and misused! What little faith is present behind so many theories, so many empty words! How much filth there is in the Church, and even among those who, in the priesthood, ought to belong entirely to him! How much pride, how much self-complacency! What little respect we pay to the Sacrament of Reconciliation, where he waits for us, ready to raise us up whenever we fall! All this is present in his Passion. His betrayal by his disciples, their unworthy reception of his Body and Blood, is certainly the greatest suffering endured by the Redeemer; it pierces his heart. We can only call to him from the depths of our hearts: Kyrie eleison ­ Lord, save us (cf. Mt 8: 25).

    This was a scant 10 years ago. Note how he laments the filth that exists in the Church, even among the priesthood. Msgr. Charasma just proved his point.

  88. Peter Stuart says:

    And now English-language press spokesman Fr. Thomas Rosica has taken to Twitter-blocking all, including myself, who object to his heterodox interpretations of Synod events. What part of “pastoral practice” does that cover?

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