From a reader…
QUAERITUR:
What is a reasonable ordinary donation to a priest in connection with a request to say a mass. Or a reasonable range?
I understand that it is not strictly necessary to send a certain amount, and that way the truly poor can still get masses said for their needs / intentions. But I am not truly poor, and I am willing and able to assist with meeting priests’ needs. Presumably, other than the (sometimes very modest) living typically provided to a priest from the parish and diocese, he must pay for his needs at least in part out of what is given to him, and this includes what is given to him in thanksgiving that he is available as a priest to say masses for us and our needs. So, it seems like there would be a reasonable sort of amount or range of donations that is fitting or generally appropriate from those of us who are not poverty-stricken. Is that right?
Would we generally assume a higher amount is also fitting for those priests who have been cancelled and are receiving nothing at all from the diocese that (canonically) probably owes them to pay their living expenses?
This is a hard one to tackle for a couple of reasons. First, it may seems a little self-serving, since I am a priest and I receive Mass stipends now and then. Also, customs and particular laws are established in different places. Moreover, religious priests and diocesan priests can have a different manner of receiving intentions: some go to the community, some to the parish, some even to the diocese (which I think could be a violation of canon law… certain it is of justice and charity).
Priests have the right to make their living “from the altar”. Priests are for offering sacrifice. They are not for being nice or chairing committees or running youth groups. The identity of the priest and his living is “from the altar”. Hence, it is right and just that the priest receive material means to live through his action of offering the Sacrifice at the altar for people’s intentions. Ubi missa, ibi mensa. Where the Mass is, there also the table/meal/living is. This proverb explains that the priest’s income is rightfully from the celebration of Mass and, by extension, all his priestly actions. It is right to provide stipends for priests who do things for you (baptize your babies, marry you, etc.).
In some places the amount of a stipend is fixed by the diocese. I believe that counts mostly for public Masses celebrated on the parish schedule as well as “stole fees” (for marriages, etc). However, priests have days off. Retired priests have more days off. Canceled priests have all days off, as it were. Priests can celebrate with their own intentions when they are not obliged to take the scheduled intention at the parish. They can make their own arrangements for stipends for those Masses.
Mind you: setting a fixed amount in a diocese for Mass intentions is not a bad thing in itself. A fixed amount removes confusion and questions. It also helps people who are on a fixed income to plan (if they can find any parish with available slots in the calendar!). It creates some uniformity between parishes, which can be in very different neighborhoods.
However, in some places stipends have lagged behind the times. These days, in the USA, a $5 stipend would be absurdly low. However, $5 stipends for a priest in Africa would be welcome.
Some priests don’t have many stipends. For example, third world priests studying in Rome… even US priests… don’t have many stipends and that can be a problem.
Retired priests, too. I’ve given my stipends to men who are having troubles.
And let’s not even talk about the plight of priests who have been canceled.
And some stipend is better than no stipend when you are in need. I have had those years. Stipends meant a meal or a book I needed for research or a phone call home (back in the day), or getting my cassock dry cleaned, a hair cut. I still, with donations, always think in concrete terms: groceries… gas… insurance… roof replacement fund … internet bill! Funny how early years shape your later years.
I’ve tried to be a kind of “yenta” to connect people with priests so they can work things out on their own. I have nothing to do with the exchange of money or the conditions. That’s between them entirely. But I know that, from notes I’ve received, people are grateful to find a priest and the priests themselves really needed the help. It hardly gets better than that.
The bottom line is, when you make an arrangement with a priest for Mass intentions, you can offer what you want. You can offer what that priest’s diocese or order has fixed. You can offer a $10K for one Mass intention, or $10 for ten intentions. The $10K is obviously a lavish gift, also. The $10 could be the “widow’s mite” and, therefore, a precious honor for the priest to be offered.
If you and the priest agree, that’s a contract that binds the priest. If he accepts the stipend, you can be sure he will say the Mass for that intention either within the year or on the day you two agree on (barring the unforeseen, of course).
If a priest is impeded from saying the intentions himself, he has to find another priest to take them.
Also, it is possible to give a priest Mass intentions which you keep “secret”, that is, you give them, “pro intentione dantis… for the intention of the one giving (it)”. This sometimes works if, for example, I run into a student priest who is on the ropes and needs intentions. I can give him a sum of money for, say, 10 stipends and say, for “intentio dantis“. I can either give him names or purposes later or… not! I know and God knows.
By the way, Christmas is the only day of the year on which a priest can accept three stipends for the three traditional Christmas Masses.
Consider the priests’ positions. Are they young and without a wealthy family? Are they retired and their pension isn’t covering life’s needs? Are they in a parish or on their own. Some of these cases call for generosity above and beyond what officialdom has laid down in particular law.
THIS IS IMPORTANT:
Never just send a priest money for Mass intentions without first contacting him to a) ask if he can accept them and b) not place him in a position of having to refund you or c) find another priest to take them
Finally, this morning I said Mass for my regular monthly donors, who are benefactors. I don’t get a “stipend” for that intention. I get donations and I form the intention on my own. It is nice to be able to organize my own intentions. It gives me a chance to offer Masses in emergencies and for benefactors for whom I am grateful.
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As a further nuance to answer the writer’s question, we were taught (in England) that the stipend should be sufficient to allow the priest to eat simply for a day. His daily needs. [Yes. This is a baseline. That’s how I was formed to think of it.]
Some years ago, 20 or so, the Bishops suggested £5. This has never been formally revised. It is simply not enough now, unless you cannot afford more. In France, which I also know, it is 15 euros in most dioceses. That is fair, assuming the priest in housed by his parish.
[Not to be assumed. In Italy, for example, parish priests will charge the assistant rent!]
Years ago, I offered a stipend to our local N.O. Priest to say a 30 consecutive Mass intention for my sisters son who committed suicide. The Priest would not accept the offering but said the Masses. He actually came to me after and told me he had said the Masses intentions for my sisters son in her sons name. I told him again I would be pleased or honored to pay but he would not hear of it. Is this common or was i just a victim of his kindness?
Jim
[That was definitely an act of kindness.]
One Archdiocese permits
$10 for announced Mass
$25 for funerals or weddings
Priests were told by diocesan officials that if they took more they were embezzling from the parish.
Of course private arrangements are not covered by this.
The rule of thumb that I use is to consider the priest as a professional who has been highly trained in their craft. How much does one pay a professional for an hour of their services? How much does your auto mechanic, your dentist, a tutor for you kid, etc. charge?
On the low-end, what is the going rate for a babysitter or a youth to mow your lawn? What is the minimum wage in your locality? What do you put in a birthday card?
Granted, one gives what they actually can as the point is love for God and love for His priests, but I do think that we run into problems, and I know I do, when we give charitably for a service less than what we pay for an equivalent (as if there could be an equivalent between the Mass and anything else) service rendered, especially when we have the means to do so.
People should not text or email priests requesting a Mass. Those of us in parishes have daily Mass intentions and even intentions on our time off that must be fulfilled.
Two amusing stories regarding this issue:
In the good old days (pre-Vatican II) there was a Polish Cistercian priest who had fled from a Polish Communist prison after WWII and had settled near his family in the Chicago Archdiocese. There was no Cistercian community around and the Archdiocese didn’t want to give him an assignment, so he lived off of Mass stipends from parishes needing help or priests going on vacation. In one parish the priest noticed that the parish priest told him to only celebrate the Masses without an asterisk on it. He later found out that the asterisk meant that a higher amount had been offered for those Masses, so he was only assigned to the “standard fee” Masses.
A second story shows how important Mass stipends are: a Polish Franciscan priest was to be sent to Uganda, but he had to learn English, so his order sent him to Manchester, England to English language school which was 12 miles away from the monastery he was living in and he was given no money for bus fare. So he walked those 12 miles back and forth every day and had bloody blisters after a few days. He desperately looked for coins on the street as he walked to his classes and would pick up left over golf balls from a nearby golf course to sell to a local store to gather money for bus fare. Finally, one week before his classes ended some local nuns asked him to celebrate Mass for them and confess them, giving him a 10 pound note as he was leaving. He was overjoyed, because at least during the last week he could take a bus to his classes.
Though there is no monetary value, of course, but each Mass is worth a billion dollars at least if you compare it with what immense treasure through graces that sacrifice brings to us, so there is no limit in how generous we should be to priests offering a Mass for our intentions.
I was told stipends count as income for a priest, so I usually pay the lower end for a stipend and include a donation so the priest doesn’t have to count it all as income. Also, I asked our pastor if having a Mass said for someone counts as an almsdeed and he said “No” as you are paying the priest for it.
[Ummm… I disagree. Especially when, today, it is not the easiest thing to arrange for Masses. And, depending on who the priest is, it can indeed be alms.]
Can the aforementioned cancelled priests say daily Mass without the facility of a church altar? If so, could not a forum/community be formed to use them appropriately?
The rule of thumb that I use is to consider the priest as a professional who has been highly trained in their craft. How much does one pay a professional for an hour of their services? How much does your auto mechanic, your dentist, a tutor for you kid, etc. charge?
Our priests already get paid a salary from the diocese that is almost double more than my monthly take home pay. On top of that, his housing costs are covered, they have a vehicle and food allowance, and can claim a lot of their expenses at tax time. I live slightly above the poverty level, but do not make a living wage. I don’t scruple over the $10 stipend fee in place by the Diocese.
Helpful information.
I’m waiting to hear if my intentions have been placed on the calendar so this will help me decide on an amount.
[You could have that backwards. Work everything out up front.]
You should also consider your own means in determining a Mass stipend for the priest.
I imagine good priests, being good priests, say Mass for free for special intentions when the requestor doesn’t have the ability to pay a stipend. If you are well-to-do, consider paying a larger stipend ($100+) as a way to help the priest offset lost stipends from offering Mass for charitable intentions.
@APX
Having a Mass said may often not be part of a priest’s daily diocesean duties (what they are paid for) so the charitable giving shouldn’t be looked at in terms of “well, they are already being paid”. It is an indepedent question from what they are getting or not getting from the diocese. Do what you can, of course — he says the Mass out of love for God and love for you — you give the stipend out of love for God and love for him.
Just, when considering “how much?” consider that at minimum you’d want to answer how much you would give to any other professional person for a service rendered. It is a very common attitude (not saying that it is your attitude) for people to consider given priests less simply because they are “men of the cloth”. This is what I am speaking to and the need to treat priest’s, and their time, as valuable. It is valuable because they are professionals. Like professionals, you can negotiate a lower “fee” if you don’t have the money, or you can give them more as a “tip”. But if one has the means, the fact that priests are professions really should factor into what one considers an adiquate for services rendered.
BTW diocesean set stipends can tell you a lot of how a diocese values her priests.
BTW if you live in a diocese that stomps on her priests do consider how much the stipend can ease the burden.
Dear iPadre,
If I may, that is a very silly generalised comment. You are lucky to be in a parish with Mass intentions. Jolly good. You are blessed, as I am sure you know.
I give many intentions to friends who teach in seminaries or schools. Yes, they received a modest salary, and are generally fed. Some priests outside parish ministry are less fortunate. They rarely receive Mass intentions. This is the difference between some holiday money, or new books, or clothes, and not.
You have just told the Faithful on this blog not to bother them. Truly not helpful.
For what it is worth I have a vivid memory of my mother giving stipends to the parish priest for Mass in the late 1960, about 1968. For Mass on a particular day, the norm was $5, for Mass on any day available, $3. The best calculation tool on the web gives this conversion for after inflation of 2021 US dollars from 1968 US dollars:
If you want to compare the value of a $5.00 in 1968 there are four choices. In 2021 the relative:
real price of that commodity is $38.90
real value in consumption of that commodity is $43.60
labor value of that commodity is $44.70 (using the unskilled wage) or $47.40 (using production worker compensation)
income value of that commodity is $73.90
economic share of that commodity is $122.00
Here it is for $3:
If you want to compare the value of a $3.00 in 1968 there are four choices. In 2021 the relative:
real price of that commodity is $23.40
real value in consumption of that commodity is $26.20
labor value of that commodity is $26.80 (using the unskilled wage) or $28.50 (using production worker compensation)
income value of that commodity is $44.30
economic share of that commodity is $73.30
It is worthwhile to remember what inflation has done to the dollar. And I don’t think any diocesan norms have taken that into consideration. By the way, my father blue-collar, a telephone installer.
Local TLM parish – €20 stipend several months wait.
Aid to the church in need take on line Mass offerings on their websites in the various countries.
UK £5 min.
Ireland €10 min.
I heard during the assault on Syria over several years, the local priests who were receiving these meagre ACIN stipends attached to requested Mass intentions, were often spending them on medicine and medical supplies for the locals.
“By the way, Christmas is the only day of the year on which a priest can accept three stipends for the three traditional Christmas Masses.”
What about All Souls Day?
[On All Souls a priest may say three Masses but he can only keep the stipend for one of them.]
Good reminder, I learned this important tidbit the hard way *snicker* *chuckle* :D
APX,
If what you say is accurate, and I suspect it isn’t, it’s certainly not the norm. I have been assigned in several dioceses and what you say is not the case in any of them.
Also, don’t forget that, at least theoretically, part of the stipend goes for the expenses incurred in the offering of Mass: bread, wine, candles, linens, vestments, electricity, etc. This is true especially for retired and cancelled priests who do not have the luxury of a church or chapel where these things are provided and must pay for them themselves. It can be a real financial burden.
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The rule of thumb I was taught was “what a priest needs to live on for a day”, subject to what the person requesting the Mass can afford. The last two times I’ve arranged a Mass for a personal intention I’ve given £50 ($55.50 at today’s exchange rate) and I think that meets the rule of thumb pretty well. My pastor receives no stipend or salary from the Church, and in fact he is still owed arrears of expenses from our small congregation, so he truly needs occasional Mass stipends to help make ends meet.
I have to disagree with the idea behind “giving what you would give a professional for an hour of work”. The actual thing the priest does is something he has not learnt in the manner of a professional, but because a bishop has laid hands on him; and it has been the good sense of the Church ever that it is so holy that only a price of $0 is appropriate. There are, after all, certain constructions in mathematics where the equality 0=? holds (though it doesn’t in our usual Zu{-?,?}).
But he who worketh hath a right to his wages, right? Well, of course. That is why, in my (very!) personal view, “The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less, than the half shekel, when they give the offering of the LORD, to make atonement for your souls” from the book of Exodus is the way to go. Let’s pay the amount the diocese orders, and if that’s too little, the thing in principle would be for the diocese to raise it.
There is of course a moment of “who can give more ought to give more”, but its place is in my view the Fifth Church Commandment or the thing loosely, though one tenth is not obligatory under sin, called tithe; not the amount of a Mass stipend.
I am not poor, so I cannot speak for a poor person. With that in mind, if a were, the holy Mass stipend would be perhaps the only thing I would not want a poverty discount for; in an ideal world I might ask someone richer to pay it for me; though I have a feeling that I would be too ashamed for that and just visit Mass without paying for any stipend, offer that up laically, and see what God does about that. (After all, paying for a Mass stipend is “seeing what God does about that” too.)
I do, however, generally take paying for a stipend, which is €5, as an occasion to give an additional donation of the same amount to the same priest. This is perhaps not ideal, but €5 is just so very low. Someone in this comment section has called that a tip, and that perhaps is a very appropriate expression, though I wouldn’t have come up with it myself (a sign that I still despite all my efforts have not lost all taints of Puritanism). It is very to the point, of course, also in this that when a bartender says “one shot for free for you”, I will give him more of a tip but will absolutely not add the whole price of the shot to my otherwise tip; courteously receiving a gift means saying thanks and not paying for all of it on the spot (which would mean rejecting the gift as gift).
“What soldier serves at his own expense?”
Our clergy should be adequately provided for, even apart from special individualized services—but especially for them.
@Imrahil
Ah but see, a priest has indeed learned what he has in the manner of a professional. How many years of schooling does a priest have? They hold academic degrees and seminary degrees on top of that. They are professionally educated and on top of that, they have gone through an apprentice-like program like tradesmen as they learn, hands-on, their priestcraft. They are professionals in every sense of the term, we just tend to not see them as such due to the anticlerical background noise of modernity and the modern Church. Yes, they are men of God and worthy of that respect but they are equally worthy of the respect that one should give any professional person who has honed their skill through years of study and training.
When scripture talks about the right of a man to remuneration for their labor, there is a certain unjustness that is in modern economic theory where we seek to remunerate at the lowest level that the worker will accept. Because priests have a tendency to accept ZERO for their labors we tend to think that ZERO is appropriate and moral. It is not. Priests should love poverty but that reality doesn’t translate into a right for those who employ their services to make them poor. This is not just.
This is why I am pushing back on this — revitalizing a truly Catholic sense of the Church really means returning to a situation where our priests are held in high esteem and respect and to high standards — because they are professionals. That they are men of God only adds to that, not subtracts from the value of their labor.
—
@Augustine Thompson O.P. Exactly. People’s sense of the modern value of $5 is off as compared to what it once was.
—-
Side note: When we start valuing the labor of priests more, we will start valuing our labor more and the value of Christ’s Labor more, take our prayers more seriously and be more diligent in living the life of grace and avoiding sin. If we attach low value to the work of a priest in offering prayers and sacrifice for our sins, then implicitly we are saying that it is a low-value thing to redeem us, and thus we can waffle in and out of sin for just a low price. Consider what value one places on the sins that one commits. “You have been bought for a price…” $5 Mass stipend for a soul in purgatory? No, we value the labor of priests too low which results in us valuing our sins too low.
Again, this is not about the poor offering their mites, it is about those with means offering mites. In all things, give because you love God and because you love your priest.
Dear Lurker59,
if you think my argument was that priests are not schooled, you are mistaken. My argument was that what we “pay for”, note the inverted commas, when we buy a Mass stipend is not the result of their schooling. It is not. They perform a miracle (if the word is not defined in such a way as to exclude “sacrament”), and have the power to do so from God through their ordination. That, really, is it.
The Church does restrict the number of men she chooses to ordain according to certain criteria, amonst which is schooling. I never would have dreamt of denying that, or of denying that this is at least very often really top-notch. My point was that this schooling is not and cannot possibly be the point of ordination, hence it is implicitly… not to say “wrong”: problematic… to treat it as if it were. Not only supererogatory, but positively … not to say “wrong”… problematic. We “pay”, them for something they can perform by miracle, not for something they have learnt. We have to respect that, in my view. We have to respect that even if this happens to mean we retain the money and could be accused, wrongly, of selfservingness on this.
And that is not an opinion based on anticlericalism. If anything, it is one based on clericalism.
But yes, they, at least secular priests who have not vowed poverty, should not be poor. Ours aren’t. I think, however, that what to that end should be used is the monthly salary, not the Mass stipend. (The monthly salary, of course, is something at least also paid for their work of pastorizing the flock, of preaching, teaching, and so forth, something that while less holy really does in part come from what they are professionally trained for.)
Being a priest isn’t a profession. It’s a vocation.
[IN FACT… these two states are not mutually exclusive. A priest is both. There are, of course, some people who believe that priests should drink from puddles on the sidewalk while rubbing gravel through their hair and then be ready cheerfully to jump up and work for the next 23 hours, an hour rest being needed for malnutrition.]
Josephus Muris Saliensis,
You may think it is silly. But, through the years I have received email requests for Mass to be said from people world wide without an offering, so I couldn’t even pass it on to someone in need of stipends.
I would always:
1. First ask the priest if he can accept the intention.
2. Check the diocese policy on Mass stipend and what happens to any extra money given beyond the stipend. Some (many?) dioceses take any surplus money for themselves–it shouldn’t be legal, but it was that way in Washington.
3. I would cut 2 checks: one for the stipend amount, with “Mass stipend” in the memo. A second with what extra I wanted to give the priest with “personal gift” in the memo.
4. I would then tell the priest that if anyone from the chancery tries to take any of that money–stab them in the throat for me. One of my favorites, who is a bishop now, got a kick out of that. I hope that he now allows his priests to keep all of what they are given in charity from the faithful.
I am delighted with the wealth of good ideas here. So much good advice.
I think that Imrahil and Lurker59 have the two opposite sides of the coin, and their ideas need to be fused together. On the one hand, the priest’s training (and its actual cost) are indeed comparable to the training of a professional. It makes sense, when setting a WORLDLY-wise value on the priest’s time and service, it is worth not less than that of a professional with a similar background: the “market” value hangs on how rare it is due to how difficult it is to deliver, and that depends at least in part on how difficult it is to succeed in the priestly training. Which is not easy.
On the other hand, it is NOT a “profession”, it is a vocation, and its TRUE worth is not measured in such worldly terms. God gives his gifts where he wills, and does so for the good of the Church, not for the recipient’s own private good. A priest’s gift of being called and ordained is indeed a gift from God, not to be counted solely in terms of what it costs in worldly terms, but to be treasured in terms of grace and eternal life. Any Catholic who thinks he can “measure” the value of a priest saying a mass by dollars (or Euros) is barking up the wrong tree.
Still and all, regardless of its true heavenly value, a priest must eat to live, and if the mass stipend is a central part of his income, then it MUST be accounted as part of his worldly upkeep in order to make those masses available. Hence in general a priest’s sources of income must provide for his living, and I gues stipends are a non-trivial aspect of that. (For a canceled priest, they must be the major portion.) And since a priest cannot say more than one mass a day (ordinarily), the stipend plus his other sources of income must provide what he needs each day: that “must” is not so much a matter of a “just wage”, it’s a matter of keeping him alive and healthy to keep on saying those masses. And not just food, but his other necessary expenses (at a minimum, that is). For a priest whom you know is covered for most of his expenses by parish provision, maybe that allows a fairly small stipend, but from what I gather above some parishes and diocese don’t provide much – so you better be sure about it before assuming he gets most of his needs covered. And beyond the necessities: it is fitting for a priest to have such goods as worthy and wholesome books, and to be able to go on vacation (or on pilgrimage) at times, so the covering the mere necessities is not ALL that we should account suitable in thinking of a right stipend.
Going by what everyone above said: For those who can afford it, it appears that from $30 to $50 often will be a reasonable amount, but more if you know the priest hasn’t other income to handle housing, car, insurance, etc. For those who cannot afford that, what you can afford would seem to be “the reasonable amount.”
an hour rest being needed for malnutrition.
Ha! that’s priceless.
Don’t forget: he has to get up half an hour before he goes to bed.
Regarding the comment of @iPadre, it is not a silly comment. I think it is important that the faithful know which are the channels to send intentions to a priest. Don’t just leave an anonymous envelope with money and an intention in the sacristy, don’t sent an email to any address of the parish and then drop the money under the statue of st Joseph, don’t expect that the Mass for your intention will be celebrated on a specific day just because, etc., etc. A confirmation that the Mass can be celebrated is needed. Otherwise, the priest might have to spend time finding another priest to celebrate those Masses.
What is a cancelled priest? How does that happen? How many are there in the United States?
How does one identify a cancelled priest?
Thank you for your help on this.
Duns38,
What is a cancelled priest?
A cancelled priest is one who has been unjustly and possibly criminally deprived of status, faculties, and/or living (financial support) by his bishop or religious superior. Thus they cannot function publicly as priests or, in some cases, function at all.
How does that happen?
It happens when men of courage and integrity “speak truth to power” that those in power find “inconvenient” because it convicts them of their sinful ways. It happens because those in power, i.e. pope, bishops, and religious superiors are corrupt and abusive and have no checks on them.
And it happens because most priests are cowed or threatened by their superior.
How many are there in the United States?
We are many. Many more than anyone is aware of. Most suffer in silence because by the time they are in this position the strength of will to do anything is “beaten” out of them and they are thoroughly demoralized and emotionally exhausted.
How does one identify a cancelled priest?
One doesn’t unless he chooses to reveal himself to you.
More info:
https://www.canceledpriests.org/