Over at CMR we may have seen the coining of a new term. New? Old? I don’t know, but it is good.
Liturgesy: Heresy expressed in the form of Liturgy
We are treated to this, from the closing of the Three Days of Darkness in LA… er um…. the Education Conference.
[wp_youtube]nZ5it20gKqw[/wp_youtube]
Coat of Arms by D Burkart
on Daily Rome Shot 1207 – Buon Natale!: “I wonder if you meant that Black can mate in two moves. I can’t see white doing so. …, Kh3…”
on ASK FATHER: Book about Mary in the Old Testament: “I was once gifted a book called “Crushing satan’s head” by Father Mawdsley. It is solely about Our Lady in…”
on 26 Dec: St. Stephen the Protomartyr, his Archconfraternity, and the Octave: ““St. Stephen reminds us of the consequences of discipleship. He is usually depicted surrounded by people who are beating him…”
on Daily Rome Shot 1207 – Buon Natale!: “I understand the Vatican itself being aggressively down on TLM: its current temporal lord and master hates it (and dislikes…”
on 25 Dec 2020: Fr. Reginald Foster, OCD – RIP: “He sounds like he was a wonderful man. The world and the Church could use a few more Reginald Fosters.…”
on CHRISTMASCAzT 2024 – 25 – Christmas Day – “Ah, how much it has cost thee to love us!”: “An outstanding ChristmasCaZt, Fr. Thank you for your Priesthood, your devotion, your commitment and instruction. In Domino”
on CHRISTMASCAzT 2024 – 25 – Christmas Day – “Ah, how much it has cost thee to love us!”: “Once again, many thanks, Fr. Z, to you and our other guides Parsh, Schuster, and Troadec, who have led us…”
on Daily Rome Shot 1206 – Fishwrap’s spittle-flecked nutty: “That we didn’t get the whole Third Secret, and that we continue to be lied to about Fatima, is shown…”
on The Burning Babe – A Christmas Day Poem by a English Martyr Saint: “I was just listening to Floriani’s version of the Christmas carol written by J. R. R. Tolkien. That music fits…”
on Daily Rome Shot 1207 – Buon Natale!: “Christmas Day Mass at our NO Parish was about 30%-40% Latin thankfully, and as the Vatican II Council Fathers intended.” on The Burning Babe – A Christmas Day Poem by a English Martyr Saint: “I’m asking Fr. Southewll to speak to his fellow Englishmen Cardinal Roche. Perhaps a warming of his heart can come…” on Daily Rome Shot 1207 – Buon Natale!: “The hostility is rife. I have words for them but I shall keep it to myself. I’d love to meet…”
on PRAYERCAzT: Singing the 2024 Christmas Proclamation or Kalendas in Latin (audio), – and a hard ASK FATHER question: “Sadly no Kalendas preceding the otherwise beautiful and edifying Midnight Mass (TLM, Solemn High Mass) I attended. I’m grateful that…”
on Daily Rome Shot 1207 – Buon Natale!: “White to move and mate in 2. How fast did you find it? [NB: I’ll hold comments with solutions ’till…”
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We need to put 100% of our efforts into reforming Catholic “Education”! Where do you think most of the liberal nuns who betrayed the Church with the Health Care Bill spend their days?!? In the class room! The worst liturgy is in Catholic Schools. Bishops need to address this issue above all else. If Catholic Education in the US doesn’t change and if the Liturgical reform doesn’t occur in the Schools it will never take hold inthis country. Remember Nancy Pelosi went to a Catholic School. Check out my video on it at youtube.com/kolbe1019
Oh my. What the…? Why were there…? Who were all those bishops? How about that dancing deacon, huh? Was this also reason #65648 why there should be no dancing or clapping in the liturgy in America? I thank God for my small FSSP parish.
Like Summorum Pontificum means anything to these clergy and groups. Why can’t there be an Extra-Ordinary Form Liturgical Conference every year with over 40 thousand people attending?.
I have now been sanctified through suffering now during this lenten season. If someone handed me a clay pot of incense or a book of the Gospels painted like the Italian/Mexican/Irish flag to dance with, I’d tell them to go jump in a lake.
Watching this made me want to vomit. It looked like some kind of pagan voodoo ritual. As if they were a pagan “cargo cult” trying to imitate something vaguely catholic (I meant to not capitalize it)in their “worship space”. If this is what most people get at Mass in the rest of the country and world this is why we desperately need to return to the Tridentine Mass. As a Catholic trapped in the Baptist South, this is what the Baptists (usually falsely) accuse Catholics of doing at Mass. I hope and pray that they do not see this video, because they would think Catholics are really an un-Christian pagans and have the video in their mind, to prove it.
Let’s now re-read this article Fr Z posted and meditate on what we see here.
https://wdtprs.com/2010/03/fr-blake-responds-to-mr-warner/
Damian Thompson would have field day with this spectacle.
This is a very strange mix of “Gather Us In,” “Shine, Jesus, Shine,” and “Hits Off the Bong.”
This, except for the M&M’s is my body.
Right.
Don’t we all feel “Religiously Educated”, by watching this. Educated in how not to worship God.
I wonder how this will all sound with the “New Translation of the NO Rite” coming.
Quote: “This is a very strange mix of “Gather Us In,” “Shine, Jesus, Shine,” and “Hits Off the Bong.”
Probably a preview of the new copyrighted ICEL Hymns.
Wow, I can’t believe I watched the whole thing. Thank God for ICKSP who celebrate the Latin Mass in our parish. I’m a new convert (Easter 09). I used to joke with my husband that I was going to become a Catholic whenever our Presbyterian church would get too “loose.” But then we attended my stepson’s graduation Mass at Loyola Marymount in LA, that was 6 years ago. I was mortified by the circus. The horrible music, a kind of “It’s a small world after all” pop. The “altar girl” came out carrying the Gospel wearing platform shoes and a halter top! I would have thought I was at a boxing ring if the music hadn’t reminded me that I was in a very bad fantasy land. I never joked about becoming a Catholic after that. Thank God He was after me, and led me to the Traditional Latin Mass that gives him the honor and glory He deserves.
I can just imagine Cheeks and Chong at this conference. Breath it in man!. That’s some good bong in those bowls.
Dude! Serious bong loads going on. The people are panicking, because they misread the psalmist, who said, “all their herbage I will dry up,” and they heard, “all their doobage I will dry up…”
Imagining Bob Dylan singing Haugen and Haas helps me stomach these ditties Sunday after Sunday.
Amen, becket1! If only there was a 40,000 strong convention of the EF!
I’m with you colospgs, thank God for our FSSP parish. I did my lent by just watching that video to the end.
I know in one parish where the children go to first Friday Mass,they are all marched in at the last minute, have the bongo drums going, guitars and maracas with all the most silly hymns you can imagine. As soon as Mass is over they are marched out, they are not taught how to prepare for Mass nor how to make a good thanks giving. It really is very sad and this is a conservative diocese.
I got sick to my stomach watching those incense ‘dancers’.
It reminded me of a scene from ‘The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe’ where Aslan offers himself up to the witch to be sacrificed on their altar. All those creatures dancing about in mockery.
What got me sick is that, if the Mass and Consecration are valid (I couldn’t watch more than a couple minutes), Our Lord Jesus is placing his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity into those proceedings. It’s almost a a literal re-enactment of Calvary opposed to the Last Supper.
Have you noticed these Eastern bishops? I just fail to imagine what went through their heads during this thing. I would not like to be in their place – I don’t have stomach for such ‘rituals’. It’s revolting.
Quote: “Have you noticed these Eastern bishops? I just fail to imagine what went through their heads during this thing. I would not like to be in their place – I don’t have stomach for such ‘rituals’. It’s revolting.”
Maybe they will now establish closer relations with the Eastern Orthodox.
It wouldn’s surprise me a bit if some of these Eastern Rite Bishops swam the Bosphorous after this escapade.
Dear Luce, it’s good to hear from a newer convert to the Catholic Church who assists at Mass in the Extraordinary Form. You’re actually the first such convert I’ve ever encountered! I hope your instruction was better than in lots of places! Welcome aboard!
Just because Latin American Catholics are becoming more attracted to Pentecostalism, is no justification to altar the Roman Rite, to make it look and feel more like a Pentecostal service, just to keep them Catholic. Not justified one bit!.
Here is a good point brought up by someone at CAF about this spectacle.
Quote: “Saddening. This Mass was a purposeful and direct smack in the face to the Vatican and Catholic Liturgy. The Archdiocese chose to celebrate the closing liturgy of its big RE conference illicitly.
For starters, the sacred vessels were glass and wicker.
Yet, Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum explicitly states that,
“”Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily.”
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co…ml#Chapter%20V “
The Archbishop of LA should be help personally responsible for this “Liturgical Scandal”!.
Wow, this is really bad… I watched parts 1 and 12… the twirling deacon was bad enough, the gaudy gospel was bad enough, but the way that the Body of Christ is so casually passed out? I don’t know what to say… Who were these bishops??? Why is this allowed??? I mean, you look at this, and if this is the kind of oversight put into the Eucharist, is it any wonder the Church is suffering so greatly right now?
Wow, i’m speechless(and not in the good way). Please tell me that at least there were no lay ministers of communion with all those priests and bishops.
Maybe some good will come of this, especially if the Byzantine Catholic Bishops concelebrating have a glimpse into the pitfalls of attempts to ‘update’ the liturgy and to ‘make it more relevant’, as sadly one hears from time to time in reference to the Byzantine liturgy.
I’m going to say a few Aves that the next Archbishop of L.A. is going to be respectful of the roman rite(and much much else).
The SSPX bishops were once excommunicated and Mahony STILL is not? Incredible!
I’ve been to this charade of a conference where heresy and rebellion is preached openly, year after year, all under the approving gaze of Mahony. Why does Rome allow this to go on? Why is Mahony still allowed to lead souls away from the Church?
I gave the video 2 minutes and stopped it. I’m not wasting my computer time watching idiocy.
Like I said before, the Archbishop of LA needs to be held personally responsible for this spectacle. They already have a 2011 REC planned. It needs to be STOPPED!, before more damage is done to our Catholic identity. There is no need whatsoever for a conference like this at all in the first place. Rome needs to intervene and put a stop to it for good!. We are not Pentecostals!, and this isn’t Dancing with the Stars.
I’m sure that the Archdiocese justifies this by saying that we need to make the Mass relevant to today’s youth and the culturally diverse population of LA. What they got is a horrifying mix of 70’s-tastic music and dance moves that Barney the Dinosaur would be embarassed to perform.
It looks like the conference hired the dancers that were not technical enough to join real dance troupes, but weren’t cool enough to become Jazzercise instructors.
Ah yes, the ceramic, the dancers, the music taken from “That 70’s Show” and the flowing chasubles without a single piece of sacred art. Welcome to California.
I am chuckling because of those who want to vomit. I was invited to pray the Rosary for someone who passed away, at a Los Angeles parish where this very same auxiliary bishop came to be with the family.
When he saw me standing in the sacristy, cassock, lace surplice, and stole, he summoned every strength to be courteous with me. Later, a priest joked that “I think the Bishop took a look at you and summoned all of his strength not to vomit his dinner on you.”
Talk about morose delectation. Sometimes, it’s the promoters of liturgesy who get to suffer shock and awe when they see what the younger clergy are bringing back. More and more, I have to confess the delight it gives me to inflict grief, pain, and woundedness upon the typical modern cleric whose favorite entrance hymn is “The Age of Aquarius.”
I agree with Becket1 – an EF Liturgical Conference ought to counteract this! Perhaps Juventutem USA can initiate such an event. Who knows, maybe our trad-friendly bishop can even do a Pontifical High Mass for that!
I agree with all about what an aesthetic/liturgical/theological abomination all this is.
But my very first thought was; what if one of the prancers down the aisle tripped and sent a bowl of hot coals flying into the audience?
Does the Fire Marshall know about this?
Wow. Four (FOUR!) thurifers!
I wonder if the stadium had a “scent free” zone, for those with allergies?
(And gluten-free hosts for the celiac-afflicted? And mustum in dixie cups for those communicants in recovery?)
Seriously, guys, check out the entire liturgy, which is posted on YouTube. I was surprised to find it does not disgust me. It actually made me homesick, as it was a nearly perfect rendering of the type of Liturgy with which I grew up.
Patience. His Eminence is due to retire soon. Patience.
still, we know that there are readers of this who if faced with a choice would submit to LA-style antics than have anything to do with the SSPX (e.g. if the only mass in town was one of either)
to such folks: you keep on believing the NOM is a gift from God, and the rest of us will just keep away
or as someone Irish once put it, let’s agree to disagree: you can worship God in your way; and we’ll worship Him in His way
sorry to be so bitter-sounding, but how can people deny there’s a state of emergency in the Church when these antics are conducted by clergy – bishops! – in good standing? (I realise the HF has lots of other things to worry about; but the fact that he’s not able to put a stop to LA only proves that the emergency exists)
God bless
Paul
His Eminence should not be allowed to retire. His Eminence should be called home to Rome and given former-Archbishop Milingo’s job of pushing papers around the basement of the Vatican while His Lordship, The right Reverend Bruskewitz gets a promotion and a broom. He’ll also need a large supply of big white candles. And a lot of matches if he’s to light them all and stamp them out.
Victimae Paschali Laudes!
This just absolutely seals it for me. The traditionalists are right. I will never set foot in a joke NO mass again.
“…you keep on believing the NOM is a gift from God, and the rest of us will just keep away…”
“I will never set foot in a joke NO mass again.”
Mass is never a “joke”. This is an example of extreme liturgical abuses. Pray.
“This is an example of extreme liturgical abuses. Pray” … the NOM is a liturgical abuse in and of itself, as revealed by comparing it to what it was supposed to replace, ie the TLM.
Forgive me. I did not mean to say that Mass is a joke, just that this and all but 1 NOM I have attended make a joke of the true sacrifice of the Mass. A complete mockery. Praying hard.
Oh Mein Gott!!!
What the he** are these people thinking!!?? I mean, what are the organizers of such a thing like that thinking??! Who is responsible?
It’s so sad!! What is it with those people to be so attracted to dissent so much? Ego? Stupidity? Possesion?
It’s just so sad…. so disturbing! Sometimes I wish a had a time machine and could transplant myself into the future, where this type of abuse will NOT happen anymore! *gotta be optimistic*
We need to pray. For the Holy Father, for his agenda, for the Bishops loyal to him, for the solid formation of our young, motivated Priests in sound seminaries. For vocations to the Priesthood! For parents to teach their children the true, pure faith!
What a mess!! What an absolute mess it is. Looking at the current situation from a German point of view, it’s just infuriating – on many levels!
Deacons and their wives???????????????
My ohh My. This makes the TAC look like a haven for tradition. How far we have fallen. SP is such a great blessing (and a refuge) for so many of us.
Any resemblance to the Roman Rite is purely coincidental. No animals were harmed in the making of this film.
“We need to make the Mass relevant to today’s youth and the culturally diverse population of LA,” Claire wrote in critique of this monstrosity called a “liturgy.”
“All that we are worshipping is the golden calf that is ourselves,” Pope Benedict noted on Good Friday 2006.
John Henry Newman correctly noted that Protestantism, especially its worship, is overly concerned with “feeling.” And, that’s what this spectale was all about…feeling close to the god that is ourselves.
This is making the rounds because it is a freak show. It is not a proper presentation of the mass. Why must those who prefer the Extraordinary Form always look down their collective noses at the Ordinary Form? Do you really think that this is what the Ordinary Form is supposed to be? Seriously?
Undoubtedly, many have had to endure abuses, but today, millions of faithful, pious Catholics will participate in beautiful, reverent masses in the Ordinary Form. I know that I will.
What disturbs me most of all is that I find much of the commentary to be very uncharitable, and frankly, unchristian. We are fellow Catholics. We are brothers and sisters in Christ.
The Catholic Church is a big tent — maybe not big enough for the LA RE Conference — but big enough for the faithful to embrace both the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary form of the mass.
I must be being born along with the spirit of Vatican II. I am actually getting used to reading things like ‘the form of the mass”!!!!
Actually a ‘mass’ does not have any FORM.
A mass is formless.
A mass is simply a mass.
It has neither shape nor form.
One can have a mass of porridge.
One can have a mass of flowers.
One can have a mass of pottage.
One can have a mass of s***.
On the other hand.
The Holy Mass is none of the above.
The Holy Mass is the representation of the sacrifice of Jesus in remission for our sins.
The Holy Mass simply is completely different from a mass.
That is why we use a CAPITAL LETTER to denote the difference, even though the pronunciation is the same as a mass with a lower case “m”.
All the poster needs to do is to remember the difference and to use the SHIFT button!!!
GET IT!!!!!!!
Craig- Your comment about Calvary sent a shiver down my back. That is a very scary thought.
paulbailes- I am one of those readers. I don’t believe that the NO is a gift from God and I hope that it will be gradually phased out but I would rather go to a Mass that is supposed to be taking place, as bad as it may be, than a Mass that is not supposed to be taking place, as beautiful as it may be. (I admit I haven’t seen the video because my internet is too slow.)
Wow. The “dancing deacon” just about did me in. Did anyone else spot Bishop Trautperson in the procession? I wonder what the Eastern Rite bishops in attendance were thinking?
How has this been allowed to go on all these years? Whoever is appointed Archbishop of Los Angeles after Cardinal Mahony better be prepared to wage a holy war in order to bring things back to some semblence of Catholicism. The only one I know of that might have half a chance of winning is Archbishop Chaput, and, honestly, I don’t think that’s likely to happen.
I agree with the previous post. Cardinal Mahony needs to be recalled to Rome for rehabilitation. This is just too much.
Bob Glassmeyer: it’s good to hear from a newer convert to the Catholic Church who assists at Mass in the Extraordinary Form. it’s good to hear from a newer convert to the Catholic Church who assists at Mass in the Extraordinary Form.
Strange. Young converts are very conspicuous in my Latin Mass community, and in most I’m familiar with. Two of our three MC’s, our choir director, numerous members of our choir/schola. All of our officers (well, they’re all converts, though in my case you gotta omit the word “young”).
“Do you really think that this is what the Ordinary Form is supposed to be?”
No, that’s not what it is supposed to be, but while it is usually not as extreme as that, that, in large part, is what the Ordinary Form is. I mean the actual, common implementation.
Due to the lack of a conveniently-scheduled EF Mass, I assist at an Ordinary Form Mass. It is not at all like this spectacle in the video. But it is one of maybe two or three Masses in an entire metropolitan area and surroundings that is relatively “by the book.” Every other parish I’ve visited in the area is doing a “lite” version of the REC stuff.
I would frankly like Summorum Pontificum to be implemented.
Wow. This is sick. Here’s my play-by-play as I watch:
Did you see that processional box-on-a-stick (Oops, I mean cross)?!?!
Anyways, where are all of the Boys serving in cassocks??
And what a terrible opening song!
Since when do deacons wives process in and sit near the altar?!
How hard is it to fold yer hands anyways?
DANCING DEACON?!?! (Sick)
This is nasty. I can’t watch the rest.
ben
No one should be surprised by this spectacle, the beginning of which looked more like a wiccan ceremony than Mass. And the idea that Mahony be “held responsible” does not account for the fact that he for years has been an active participant in these events and has seen, and therefore sanctioned, the clear abuses we see here. Someone should be kind enough to forward this video the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Congregation of Bishops, and the Papal Nuncio. It should factor into the choice of a coadjutor for LA.
I watched this and had to laugh.
Lets just hope and pray that the person who replaces baloney, Oh I mean Mahoney wont be one of those bishops there
JimGB: “Someone should be kind enough to forward this video the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Congregation of Bishops, and the Papal Nuncio. It should factor into the choice of a coadjutor for LA.”
The people you mention already know the situation in Los Angeles. Cardinal Levada is rumored to be the one who is going to present the case for a coadjutor to the Congregation for Bishops. Do keep in mind that this is the same man who, when Archbishop of San Francisco, negotiated a compromise whereby same sex couples could receive insurance benefits as employees of the archdiocese. Cardinal Rigali, widely acknowledged to be the point man for appointments to the Church in the United States, serves on the Congregation for Bishops and is in Rome every two weeks for meetings. He is a native of Los Angeles and is only a year ahead of Cardinal Mahony. Yes, they are old friends. Do you really think he’s going to do in his old buddy? No way. As for Archbishop Sambi, who in the heck knows what he really thinks about anything? Rarely does he express an idea or opinion that originates from himself. Whenever he speaks in public, 90% of what he says is taken directly from something Pope Benedict has written, which is certainly not necessarily a bad thing. The other 10% are pious platitudes and humorous, yet getting rather old, apologies for his “Oxford accent” and “King’s English.” Bottom line: he is a diplomat who seems to be more concerned with keeping a positive relationship going between the U.S. Government and the Holy See than dancing deacons in Mahonyville.
So, honestly, and as sad as this may seem, unless there is a direct intervention by the Holy Father to appoint a man of high caliber such as Archbishop Chaput as Coadjutor Archbishop of Los Angeles, whoever the Congregation of Bishops comes up with, despite perhaps the objections of other Americans on the Congregation such as Archbishop Burke and Cardinal Stafford, we are likely to see the same old same old in La-La Land.
The truly shocking thing is that I am no longer shocked by this. Horrified, yes, but no longer surprised.
The only thing that did surprise me was the presence of Eastern Rite bishops at such a celebration.
Isn’t LA supposed to get a coadjutor soon or is that wishful thinking?
What a hoot! Look, disturbingly Dionysian as it was, it was at least sincerely meant. For liturgical dancers, the incense swirlers were pretty good. Even the man didn’t look like a complete dork.
The purple mitre with the big white cross disturbs me most. It looks like something out of a particularly lurid Buck Rogers cartoon. And its wearer CLAPPING ALONG as he processes around the ginormous wooden office desk…! The dancing wifeless deacon was, however, an even bigger scream. As was the phrase “following the cross into the Arena.” No lions but certainly a crowd.
I guess I can laugh because I am secure in the knowledge that I will be on my way to a beautiful Missa Cantata in half an hour. Upon sober reflection, I realize that the happy-clappy music is at variance with all the purple. Is it Lent or not? Meanwhile, the procession of the deacons with their wives looks like an advertisement for a non-celibate priesthood. Very inappropriate.
Well, time to catch the bus!
Seraphic Spouse, it reminded me of a scene from the cult classic Beneath the Planet of the Apes. See below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq1U8E0F-F4&feature=related
Actually, the scene from the movie might have been more liturgically traditional than the “Mass” in L.A.
Seraphic Spouse: “Upon sober reflection, I realize that the happy-clappy music is at variance with all the purple. Is it Lent or not?”
Of all the debate going on here and at Catholic Answers, this must have to be the first time anyone picked up on this. For so significant abuse, you would think someone would have mentioned it already. Good catch, Seraphic Spouse.
“Wow, i’m speechless(and not in the good way). Please tell me that at least there were no lay ministers of communion with all those priests and bishops.”
Stephen Hand,
There were lay ministers giving out communion. You can see it later in the video. What really irritates me to see is that there appears to be sufficient priests and deacons to give Holy Communion and therefore no need for lay ministers at all. A clear violation of the rubrics.
For the Religious Education Congress (REC) to officially post these videos on its own Youtube channel is like shooting oneself in the foot.
Youtube has become an effective tool in exposing liturgical abuses. Remember the infamous “Halloween Mass” in the Diocese of Orange, CA a few years ago, the “youth Mass” with Cardinal Schönborn or when Archbishop Niederauer of San Francisco gave Communion to the “Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence”?
I just hope a similar reaction will cause the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to bring an end to these litugical abuses at the REC.
I never thought I would be coming up with arguments in support of married clergy, but notice that the twirling deacon seems to be the only one without a wife to warn him that he was making a fool of himself.
I noticed how the bishops “reverenced the altar” by kissing it. I doubt there was an altar stone with relics in that coffin, so why bother kissing it?
Wow! Talk about a church that has sold its liturgical birth right for a pot of porridge.
The presence of the two Byzantine Catholic bishops was due in part to the fact that they had concelebrated a Divine Liturgy on the first day of the REC (the first time in several years) as well as having an information booth during the weekend of REC.
We need to get the word out & make sure the National Shrine is FULL on 24 April, when the Holy Mass in the Extraordinary Form gets broadcast (and re-broadcast) world-wide.
Let us bring friends & family to this historic event – first & foremost to acquaint them with this tremendous gift from God, but also to prevent modernists from spinning any empty pews the wrong way…
I have just been reading Cardinal Mahony’s wikipedia entry. Apparently he said:
“What some refer to as a ‘vocations crisis’ is, rather, one of the many fruits of the Second Vatican Council”
The truth can be found in the most unlikely places.
We need to get the word out & make sure the National Shrine is FULL on 24 April, when the Holy Mass in the Extraordinary Form gets broadcast (and re-broadcast) world-wide.</b
EWTN: 1 pm (Eastern) Saturday, April 24
National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception (Washington)
EXTRAORDINARY FORM OF THE MASS IN HONOR OF THE 5TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE INAUGURATION OF POPE BENEDICT XVI (LIVE)
Dario Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos, President Emeritus of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”, Celebrant and Homilist.
http://www.thepaulusinstitute.org/
“The Mass will be offered in the Extraordinary Firm (Traditional Latin Mass), as encouraged by Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict. It will be the first such Mass said at the High Altar of the Shrine in nearly half a century. The priests of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter will assist at the Mass.”
This is blatantly and egregiously against what the Ordinary Form is supposed to be and look like. That people celebrating the Ordinary Form can go so hideously astray isn’t an argument against the Ordinary Form. Believing that changing the norms and rubrics will suppress abuses is like saying “Murder is bad. We should pass a law against it.” These people (murderers, the people and clergy above) are already breaking the laws. New laws won’t fix that. Likewise, this crap is no more an argument against the Ordinary Form than murderers are against current anti-murder laws. You wouldn’t look at a criminial and say “He just broke the law! Look how evil the American legal system is. If we had a better system, no one would break the law.”
The saddest thing is that many of these people are simply ignorant, they have been led astray by the clergy and the liturgical directors and they think these things are a good thing.
I heard a bunch of first year seminarians talking about unusual masses they had attended and clearly from the conversation they did not understand that these were ABUSES (they were discussing a clown mass as if it were a good thing!!). By third year I never hear such ignorance so the seminary is doing a good job. There is hope.
But rebellion against unity with the Pope is not the solution to rebellion against the Pope!!
It takes everything inside me not to be bitter at Rome for allowing this to continue. I know the can not solve every problem and have a mountain of garbage inside the Church, but this has to be stopped. It is not a small private Church gathering with a 100 or so people who will have no effect on their neighboring parishers. This is a mega event with tens of thousand of people who are innocently being led to believe this is acceptable and allowable. They walk away not knowing the dangers they carry with them and spread it to others, infecting large segments of people with scandalous stories, and advocating abuses in liturgy. And all under the guise of Mahoney and the Catholic Church. At least on the surface the Church appears to sanction this through their silence. Something should be said about this event directly not in passing or in general. Replacing this one guy, Mahoney could set a huge example (isn’t Bugnini’s post in Iran vacant?), which the Pope likes to do, using examples, that this will not be tolerated and appoint a rigid conservative to the post. Then they can start to pull themselves out of the cesspool of horrible liturgical abuse in which they are sinking. It will take decades, but it must begin. How am I as a Catholic, use to the Tridentine Mass, but sometimes attending a reverant NO Mass supposed to feel “at home” and “comfortable” walking in and worshipping like this? This charade just deepens the chasm that exists between the two forms of Mass. This resembles an evangelical service of some type. Lain, Chant, Rubrics have all sunk into the San Andreas fault and this is what is left. I do not even know if this can be called or should be called Catholic anymore. Do they have the right?
RichardT, I heard that said long ago, as though lay people could ever take the place of priests. This ridiculous excuse for an education conference was written about in the Wanderer years ago and disgusted me then as much as now. We do have to wonder how long this will be allowed to go on, and when Mahoney will be replaced.
All of this is disturbing to observe as one more of a succession of betrayals by catholic clergy (even Eastern Rite ones apparently) as they gave their endorsement to this abuse (by their participation) . We have had to endure this stuff for the past 40 years in Boston; it is frustrating, sad and, I believe, the root of the apostasy here. There is hope nevertheless in that Cardinal O’Malley has allowed the TLM to be offered daily in the lower church of the Cathedral.
And yet it was the SSPX that was ex-communicated. Clearly the smoke of Satan has remained in our Church.
to me the most disturbing thing was the commentary. pay attention to how the commentator defends and upholds this ridiculousness by pointing out the “traditional” elements, such as the kissing of the altar, use of incense, and other things that make the Mass ostensibly Catholic.
ps. i’ve had that horrible song stuck in my head since last night. now that’s penance!
folks what you just viewed was the FIRST repeat FIRST of 12 count’em 12 videos of this event
try watching the last one where the Archbishop gives a shout-out to all the attending bishops including two from Canadian eparchies (sp?)
after watching this first video yesterday I was grateful to be able to attend this morning High Mass with the Blessing of the Palms and a processional around the Church with our Gregorian Choir leading the way
The media has allowed Roger Mahony to survive because he is a liberal. His record vis-a-vis the clerical sexual scandals is as bad, or worse, than Cardinal Law, a conservative, whom the media worked night and day to chase from office. If the media had done its job in LA, spectacles such as this would have ceased long ago. And why do faithful Catholics purchase the media’s products? It’s like begging to be made a slave.
This must be the same producer as the Oscars… Of course, it would be improved if they had Billy Crystal hosting (sarcasm)
Ah yes, religion as politics; religion as entertainment; religion as personality cult; religion as cultural warfare. Everything but religion as worship.
If the Catholic church proper refuses to exert her beauty and truth in the world, that vacuum will be filled by something and here you have an instance of it. Get a good look at the consequences of the arid “high-minded” stance we took at Vatican II while it’s still around.
The good news is that the reign of modernism is ending. Thinking people on both sides don’t prefer this kind of LA baloney. You won’t find any really influential thinkers here, any more than you’ll find them on the conservative side. Oh yes, you may find Catholic thinkers nodding in approval or dismay over LA, but both ways it’s part of a larger pattern of tearing down the stupid presumptions of modernism for something else, that’s all.
People decry the collapse of the Western world, but you must look at both sides of that. The final outcome of that paradigm, when taken in the predominant, meaning secular, way was modernism. You give up one, you give up the other. Something replaces it, again with a pagan perspective and a religious perspective and that will include a Catholic perspective (regardless of its size). Life goes on.
I’m truly, Fr. Z, I tried to watch it, but I just couldn’t do it. God have mercy on us all!
I can’t help but think the congregation, seeing the two Eastern Catholic Bishops (in comparison with everything else), thinking, “What funny costumes they’re wearing.”
I wasn’t able to find many of the reverent hymns sung in this liturgy in my Liber Usualis. Perhaps mine has pages missing. :-)
Seriously, supporters and apologists of the NO are the foundation and support for such spectacular travesties as this. Of this, I have no doubt, for I have been around since long before the first NO and seen its sorry history and corruption and subversion in full. The NO in any form, in even its best form, is the natural fertilizer that gives and will continue to give these weeds abundant life.
It looked like a pagan ritual. And all those priests and bishops went along with it too!
Just what is the Mass anyway? Is it just a ‘gathering of the assembly to give thanks’ as my former pastor said? Or is it the HOLY SACRIFICE of Jesus Christ mystically re-presented? That is a key question.
“It looked like a pagan ritual. And all those priests and bishops went along with it too!”
Yes, amazing, no? Put yourself out of the modernist mindset and think like an ancient. What do you see?
“Just what is the Mass anyway? Is it just a ‘gathering of the assembly to give thanks’ as my former pastor said? Or is it the HOLY SACRIFICE of Jesus Christ mystically re-presented? That is a key question.”
You ask the question like you know the answer already. I agree with you, BTW.
Several things.
First, we again have a situation of Rome allowing all sorts of potential heterdox things to go on for years and years. What can you say? Most of the world’s bishops were appointed by JP2 and are mediocre at best. Even Benedict has a so/so record on appointments. Nothing changes except that this has been allowed to go on so long that it is probably irreversible. The US church is in de facto schism.
The pentecostal elements are a desperate attempt by the US church to hold onto fleeing members – especially the young.
This is a separate issue in a way. Jenkins has written a great book on the future of Christianity and his conclusions are the church will be increasingly African and Asian, much less liturgical and hierarchical and much more pentecostal and local. If you look at Nepal which recently ended the Budhist monarchy there are now almost 1 million Chritians. A huge conversion success – by the pentecostals. Out of 1 million Christians, there are only 7,000 Catholics in Nepal.
The FSSP parishes are not a total answer. They remain small and few are attracted – even after the FSSP having had some of these parishes for 20 years now.
By contract the AU parishes, few though there are, are sometimes huge. Our Lady of The Atonement for one. It’s had to expand the church several times and has built a large school which is bursting at the seams. So a reverent vernacular liturgy seems the only real hope for drawing large numbers to the church. Some traditionalist folks I’ve seen post are not too happy with AC. They see it as a threat in the sense it is likely to be much more of a draw that the EF. But that’s another issue too.
IMO the EO church will increasingly become a draw for those in the West who are looking for a practical unity of liturgy and practice. Some of the converts like Rod Dreher are attracted attracted too because the clergy have not gone through the huge sexual scandal. So it’s a trust issue too I think.
Where was the golden calf?
Randi you make some good and valid points. The EO Churches are growing in numbers from what I have seen.
This video was horrible. I particularly enjoyed the procession of the deacons and their wives. However this is not the future. I am in the Seminary and we just held a retreat for men discerning to the enter the seminary. I had a chance to speak to them and many of them were familiar with and attended regularly the Extraordinary form. All of the seminarians with whom I study have no sympathy with that kind of “worship”. Within twenty years, these types of liturgies will be buried in the dust of history.
I get it now! Fr. Z., this is an extra penance right? right? please say ‘right’. It’s reeally hard to be good & pray when seeing things like this. Lord, save your people.
p.s. I love the hamster! So cute!
This made me cry. It’s not that it’s N.O. – St. Mary’s in Norwalk, which does beautiful E.F. Masses, also does amazingly worshipful and reverent N.O. Masses. I don’t even mind some of the WYD-type Masses…at those events, I don’t condemn the “youth” songs, for there is so much respectful joy.
But this. And to think that DRE’s go to these conferences.
I feel like a sword has pierced my heart.
I have a daughter and son-in-law, both fallen away Catholics, living in southern CA. Am I to continue to pray they will return to this kind of Church?
I think I just cried.
I don’t really have to watch this to get sick….oh Lord, why are we so proud?
Please Lord, come…come…can’t take this anymore.
Ne-wanna-wanga.
Ne-wanna-wagoya.
And now, live from Los Angeles, the not ready for compline players.
Hmmm. The gospels look like a coffee table picture book. Probably a good idea in this era of limited literacy.
Wait a minute. Who let those guys with the funny hats in here?
*puuuuuuke*
The wonderful FRUITS of Vatican II, are still alive and doing well, after 45 years, but what do we expect from a “Fabricated” liturgy that replaced tradition and embraced progressive modernism? I believe Archbishop M. Lefebvre has been proving how right his assestment was about Vatican II.
That should be X-rated. My son tried to enter the office and I raised my voice to keep him from seeing it. It felt dirty to watch. I am going to Confession tomorrow.
I’m so happy to worship in the Byzantine Rite because we have never had to deal with issues such as these.
I mailed the YouTube link to the Holy Father and asked him to please do something in all haste before more souls are lost…
All I can summon up to say (it’s been a LOOONG day)…thank God for Pope Benedict; thank God for SUM. PONT.; thank God for the Extraordinary Form; thank God that Jesus died, lives again, is present in His wounded Church, is present to us today in the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
This just goes beyond words for me; nobody could make this up…it’s just trash. These folks are in need of some extraordinary healing; exorcism, maybe?:<)!
Like a tranwreck I just couldn’t look away … I kept skipping ahead thinking it must get better, only it kept getting worse.
I think I’ll make a felt banner now to express my feelings …
That was painful. That’s ten minutes of my life I will never get back. Thanks a lot, Fr. Z. ; )
What a barf fest. “Ministers of…Eucharist…” @ 3:48; is that what we call Priests now? No wonder there is a vocations crisis. I thought this was a National Geographic special for the first couple of minutes; the guy @ 2:00, however, did have wonderful form twirling the pot though. After that it was a Fundamentalist service until I could stand no more @4:00. Good thing, though, that there were no Catholic elements, as that would be unecumaniacal.
Reiterating someone above, thanks for giving me an experience worse than listening to nails on a chalk-board for 4 mins, Fr. Z! :)
The LA archdio ripped the altar candle design off the Vancouver Olympics torch.
If I were an eparch I would just NOT go. Why would a eparch, the guardian of the beautiful, orthodox, and ancient holy liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, even think of going to a phony Mahony spectacle? C’mon, like its going to be different this time? The Divine Liturgy is heaven. Whatever this was, well, at least they didn’t have the CTA puppets.
claire traas: *It looks like the conference hired the dancers that were not technical enough to join real dance troupes, but weren’t cool enough to become Jazzercise instructors*
Lol! Yes, but giving credit where it’s due, they did seem to hold the coal-bowls up pretty well, which entails a certain fatigue, so I’m sure they’re daily yoga practitioners.
It reminds me of a Jesuit liturgy I once attended, everything changed but the bread and wine!
Randi you make some good and valid points. The EO Churches are growing in numbers from what I have seen.
Comment by becket1
Yup. In the US catholic church you basically pick the parish to your liking. Orthodox vs less so, EF vs pentecostal oriented, affirming vs not affirming.
It’s basically the Episcopal church – just not as far gone.
If you want unity of practice no matter what Mass you attend go to an EO parish. Frankly that is where the unity of the historic faith has survived more intact. Despite the fact that the Pope is supposed to guarantee unity. It really doesn’t work that way.
Rome needs Constantinople more than the EO need Rome. The price for unity if it comes will be high.
To its credit the EO church has not called a universal council since the split. They knew it would be invalid as not all the bishops in apostolic succesion would be in attendance.
So my feeling is that any reunion will be contingent on “invalidating” all councils since the split.
This would include V2 which will make many happy here. But it would also include V1 which defined papal infallibility as the modern church uses it.
IMO part of the problem is the too centralized Papacy. In the early church decisions were made locally and only rarely appealed to Rome. This has morphed into what we have today in the highly centralized church and this form of governance has clearly not been a guarantee of unity of belief and practice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE
lex orandi, lex credendi
Randii: *In the early church decisions were made locally and only rarely appealed to Rome. This has morphed into what we have today in the highly centralized church and this form of governance has clearly not been a guarantee of unity of belief and practice.*
Can’t agree with you there. But St. Paul did oppose St. Peter (the first Pope) “to his face.” St. Athanasius and, now, (possibly future St.) Lefebvre did it to Popes who were clearly in the wrong (the latter two were even “excommunicated” for their “disobedience.”)
But to claim that there was no central authority (Pope) back then, or that things would be better now (especially now), with decentralized authority, is just not true in my reading of history.
Our Byzantine Priest has attended the LA Congress for the past several years. One of the goals is to be a “light in the darkness” that is the LA Congress. The Eparchy had a booth displaying items specific to our rite, as well as selling of Eastern Catholic books and sacramentals. This year, we celebrated the Divine Liturgy on a Friday at the Congress and had approximately 1200 people in attendance. I watched the video and saw Bishop Dino processing in behind the dancing Deacon with the Gospel. What must have been going through Bishops mind.
As a creature of God and a great sinner, I cannot stand in judgment of the liturgical practices in Los Angeles. I converted to the Catholic faith at age 19, before Vatican II. The liturgical changes were a great shock to me so I dropped out for 20 years. I am not proud of this; it was a great failing on my part.
I have struggled for decades with feelings of resentment against current liturgical practices. They grind on my soul and make me angry. This was not good for my spiritual health, so I began attending an Eastern Catholic church several years ago as there is no TLM parish in my area. I have found a true home there. There is a great emphasis on frequent confession and the Divine Liturgy nourishes my soul. More importantly, I know I am participating in the Church’s act of worship of our Redeemer and Savior.
I know that Jesus is present on the altar at every Mass or Divine Liturgy, no matter the form of worship. God works in mysterious ways, and I am hopeful that all within the Church will recognize the great importance of corporate worship. I humbly ask for your prayers, Father Z.
What the narrator (!) said was bad enough, but what he never said was worse: sacrifice. It’s the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, not whatever this travesty was. Worse, everyone in the arena will go back to their local parishes thinking that kind of “Mass” was just swell, and can we have one too? Sound nuts? The infamous Halloween / Barney Mass mentioned by Father G occurred about a 20 minute drive from this gathering.
It’s difficult to address the crisis in the Church when 90% of Catholics don’t know, and really don’t care, that there’s a crisis.
I have to agree with Randi.
We need the help of the East now more than ever. Not only the Eastern Orthodox, but the Oriental Orthodox as well. Pope Benedict XVI needs their help and prayers.
I was glad to go to a parish that didn’t do any of this madness. Please pray for us here in LA, it’s not all THAT bad, but it’s horrible
My husband and I just watched this together. He is not Catholic. He thought this was horrible and can understand why there should be liturgical reform. He finds these kinds of “liturgies” insulting and it is one reason why he is not Catholic yet.
I do hope the Holy Father sees this spectacle. He has enormous problems now in Europe, but this will also enlighten him as to who his true enemies are, within the Church. Remember what Fr Amorth (the Vatican Exorcist) said.
We need to bring back strong devotion to St. Michael the Archangel in order to exorcise practices like phoney Mahoney “masses”. Also this has got to be some sort of record for comments on one post. This comment is what #114?
cicada380 said: “My husband and I just watched this together. He is not Catholic. He thought this was horrible and can understand why there should be liturgical reform. He finds these kinds of “liturgies” insulting and it is one reason why he is not Catholic yet.”
Make the Mass “trendy” to attract new converts? Epic Fail!
A Church Divided. Analysis from the American Superior of the SSPX.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hGxyz6r5PY
Cicada, introduce your husband to a TLM. Make sure you both know what is going on and why; use a missal. As you worship, so you believe.
http://www.churchartphotography.com/index2.php
A good video for hope.
http://www.ssmithphotography.net/MissaCantata%20DVD%20-%20Version%202.wmv
Light of the East!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwFYUJb03d0
Almost all of our priests and deacons are married in the Byzantine Rite. However, the diakonisa’s and presbytera’s would never be in a procession, let alone ever enter the sanctuary (sorry ladies, this means no female altar servers). The only exception to this would be a procession outside the Church like at Pascha when all of the laity and clergy go.
And the same goes for the Oriental Orthodox/Catholic Churches as well. And Anglo-Catholics as well.
I must agree that Rome is in deep need of union with the Christian East. However, most easterners will never stand for such heretical forms of worship. I once saw a priest do something questionable and the Russian Protodeacon politely but firmly said in his thick accent, “Father, I will pick you up and throw you out of the altar.” The priest has never had that problem since. Rome needs to let those souls go who do not wantto worship the Most Holy Trinity with reverence and glory. They have much to gain. Let the modernist heretics go to the Episcopalians.
“I think I’ll make a felt banner now to express my feelings …”
~LaudemGloriae
I was about to give up finishing reading all these comments….I’m glad I didn’t because that really made me laugh….
Geoffrey –
“Patience. His Eminence is due to retire soon. Patience.”
Yes, while this is true, thanks to God, remember that Cardinal Mahoney has been in LA for a long time and has had almost 3 decades to staff the administration with his people. Whoever succeeds him in LA – and I pray and hope, but also am optimistic, that it will be an orthodox bishop – will have a ferocious fight on his hands with disobedient and rebellious staff (and the rebels will no doubt have assistance from the government). It will take a long time to drain the tar pits of LA. A long time, much suffering, many prayers and a lot of penance.
In the Diocese of Richmond, we have a similar situation. We have a good bishop, Archbishop DiLorenzo, but he succeed Archbishop Walter Sullivan, who was a rather Mahoney-esque figure (both Jadot selectees). Sullivan was in Richmond for almost 30 years. The diocesan administration still very much dances to his tune, and much work remains to be done to undo the damage.
Along with liturgesy, might there also be liturgicide?
I have been seriously thinking about this for couple of months now. And finally for me this was the last straw. How can I be part of a church that has such a false unity within itself. I am now going to attend my local Antiochian Orthodox Church full time. I can no longer be in communion with the likes of the Mahoney’s and the others who follow him and his agenda. Nothing will ever be done. Our words are just that words. No action will ever be taken. The light of the East has become brighter for me in this last day. I better follow the sign before my soul dries up.
Dear Elly
Thanks for your polite reply to mine. But re your “I don’t believe that the NO is a gift from God” … I’d ask you to consider from whom the NO must therefore derive. The LA spectacle is where the NO is headed, and where the enemy wants to take us all. Stay away!
God bless
Paul
I don’t know how accurate The American Papist is but someone there posted that Mahoney has been promised by Rome that his successor won’t be “regressive” and that it would be an Hispanic moderate.
becket – the Antiochian Orthodox Church is growing a lot in my area. BTW several years ago 2 pentecostal pastors converted to that church and took most of their congregation with them. . The Antiochian church is not just drawing many Catholic converts but evangelical/pentecostal converts also.
If Dante were writing the Divine Comedy today he would have to create a whole new circle in Hell.
“Along with liturgesy, might there also be liturgicide?”
Oh I hope so, Susan the Short. We could make banners afterward with all the scraps.
Sorry, this is the funniest thread ever.
I can just hear Subdeacon Joseph’s priest in a deep resonating Russian rumble say, ““Father, I will pick you up and throw you out of the altar.” HAHAHA. BRAVO.
The Orthodox Church has sincere people entering her ranks from many different protestant denominations, and many Latin Rite Catholics also. It is happening all over America as we speak. Whole Episcopalian parishes are entering because they fear in Rome what they see above. The world is dogmatically and liturgically starved and the East has the saving nourishment needed. While I love the T.L.M., I will never leave, God willing, the fortified tradition of Eastern Christianity. I know Rome must be exercise concern for her wayward sheep, but when they become unrepentant heretics they must be excommunicated, and if need be, anathematized.What is happening to most Roman Catholics is truly heartbreaking. Most Holy Theotokos save us!
Cavaliere,
He did. That’s where the video was shot. It’s called LA.
Sub-deacon Joseph’s comments affirm what I am seeing locally and reading about nationally.
Some members of the Anglican Church in America are not happy with their leaders request for a Ordinariate in the US. Insofar as they don’t want their individual parish to convert to Rome. Many would rather go the Orthodox route and especially given the married priesthood issues.
It will be interesting how individual US ACA parishes work this out. If almost half or more than half don’t want to join the Ordinariate what happens? Who owns the parish building? The priest and those wanting to go to Rome or the other half of the congregation not wanting to go?
Randii,
There’s no way Benedict would make that kind of a promise. I seriously doubt Mahony, as looney as he is, would even ask.
Gee, I must have an old verstion of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. The edition I have does not have anything about nifty dancing deacons or priestesses with uncovered hands glomming the bishop’s mitre and crozier.
I really must keep up.
Let us not forget what L.A. stands for: Los Angeles. The city of angels. Did that look like angelic worship?
PatrickV: They have their own version of the GIRM…cancha tell?:<)!
It’s called “do not read the black; do not do the red”…satanic, yeah?
becket 1: *And finally for me this was the last straw. How can I be part of a church that has such a false unity within itself.*
If you throw in the chips, the Church will have lost another good soul to who knows where.
Better to stand and fight at the bark of Peter!
I made a solemn pledge years ago that I would not abandon the Church, but I am very “tempted” by FSSPX, as there is a wonderful group near my family of seven, and I do go there on occassion. But, according to the Vatican, SSPX is an “internal” problem, and you get valid Sacraments there, except marriage and confession, according to some (who could, ultimately be wrong; but, they could be right.)
But, we need fighters in the Church, Traditional Souls to carry on the torch; don’t give in to the modernists taking over YOUR church; fight back! The Church is yours, not theirs! They are the imposters! Like St. Athanasius said during the Arian crisis (which, like the post Vatican II crisis, lasted decades): “They may have our churches, but we have the Faith.” Keep the True faith, the true Sacraments, and the True understanding of the Mass as the Unbloody Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ! At holy Mass, is it as we were at the Passion itself: the re-creation of the unbloody Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ (sometimes repitition engenders understanding)–never let the modernist imposters imposing and inundating themselves into our spaces of worship teach you otherwise…
Thank you Maltese, we should all especially take note of the example of St. Athanasius in these times.
For the uninitiated, if you believe the East to be free of such scandal, you are greatly mistaken. You cannot run from the Enemy, you must stand, endure and fight.
The youth of Los Angeles need our prayers. These teachers cannot pass along that which they do not have.
I once read an article by an Orthodox priest who observed that “starving people cannot discern flavors.” I hope that at least some in the congregation have simply never known or been taught better.
As to those responsible, Christ Himself has observed what happens to those who lead His little ones astray.
Maltese-those who come into the Orthodox Church are coming into the Church. All of our mysteries/sacraments are valid and not illicit.
Steve K-we Easterners have problems but our liturgies are majestic. And we do not have the problems with modernism that the N.O. Latin-Rite does. I’m afraid you are “gravely” mistaken in this matter. Please, try and find a canonical Orthodox Church doing clown, Halloween, puppet, dancing, disco music liturgies, etc. The canons even forbid instruments in the Byzantine Rite.
I dunno. I think think that must of the bishops in the procession do not look like they are too happy being there. It seems to me that they are going through the motions.
I also think that this Mass is a bit happy clappy for the Lenten season. It is Lent right?
Also, there are no altar boys they are all girls. And at about the 4:40 mark is that a girl wearing a black cassock and surplice?
If you really feel like more penance try watching the video of the Eucharist, You can watch as they *pour* the precious blood from a glass pitcher into a glass chalice.
Yeah this reminds me of masses at my High School when I was growing up, although not with the parade of clergy and cast of thousands. Maybe a couple hundred though. The clay pot sensor I have seen in more than one church.
I understand that there is a big deal being made of permanent Deacon’s wives being included in some of their preparation and ordination. I can understand them being included in some of that but I never thought they were supposed to be like co-deacons or deaconesses. That seems rather politically motivated to me to suggest that the women are ordained like their husbands.
Preview of 2011 Conference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx3EMvZrFR4
This portrays another religion.
I hope it gets sent to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments (or whatever this is called today…can’t remember)…this is the “hermeneutic of continuity”?
It’s an orgy of something or other.
Msgr. Ronald Knox’s “Enthusiasm” comes to mind here…I’ve got my “wind” back…nasty, as ever:<)!
At the dancing deacon at 6:10, my daughter and I both screamed.
becket1: ROFL!!
Oh, if it could be as well choreographed as that!
And not at Holy Mass…Jesus, take the wheel!
nazareth priest
It has Mahoney as the Chancellor and a glowing incense bowl at the end.
becket1: I don’t have a clue about Star Wars, sorry…it’s off my “radar”…but oh my gosh, I laughed myself into a spasm here…thanks for the comic relief…and yet, it’s not funny, it’s tragic; WTH is what I keep thinking (confession is soon this week, I believe!).
Don’t know that I cared for the deacons processing in with their wives. I’ve never seen that before . . . it does not seem appropriate to me.
Was the entrance song pre-recorded, or was there some group singing it? It did not seem to encourage participation by the assembly.
The words to the entrance song seemed insipid to me. I agree with the poster that was equally bad as “Shine, Jesus, Shine.” On the basis of accoustics along, music of that nature does not work for congregational singing, particulaly in a large space.
What would it have taken to rent a nice three-manual Allen and enter to a nice Hillert piece? (Richard died a few weeks ago.) Maybe some brass and a decent choir as well.
The incense did not bother me, since it was a large space and it would take several pots to fill it with a pleasant aroma.
The presider seemed uncomfortable clapping, and probably should not have attempted it.
(I am not a big fan of clapping and hand gestures for songs in church.)
Father Jim
along = alone
In contrast to the sacrilege (in the truest sense: a violation of what is sacred) in the video, supra, read infra these astonishing (and little understood even by most priests, these days) of Maria Montessori, written for children (yes, the same woman who started the Montessori method for children’s education):
Ah! In those hours when the Blood of Jesus was poured out on Golgotha, the whole world was an altar: and yet one single drop of that Blood would have been enough to wash away all the crimes of the world.
The Mass of the present day represents the sacrifice of the altar and the offering up of a victim in conciliation, by the shedding ot its blood. This offering is made to God, who has cause to be angered by the sins of men; and the offering is made to adore Him and to think Him, to appease Him and to obtain mercy, grace and blessing.
But in the new rite the victim is always Jesus Christ, who offers Himself in sacrifice for us, that He may redeem us to fully as to make us partakers in His Divinity. In the new rite the Host is the consecrated Bread-the Living Bod of Christ.
The Mass perpetually re-presents the sacrifice in that moment when Or Lord comes upon the altar under the appearance of the bread and wine: and the Elevation of the Host and Chalice represents His Elevation on the Cross.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE
Everything is sacred in the rite of Holy Mass. Every movement of the priest, every object he touches, every tone of his voice, is determined for him: and the faithful can follow the Mass in its mystical meaning and in its every detail.
[T]here is only one sort of man with hands sacred and pure enough to offer the bread and wine. There is only one sort of man who can raise his eyes to Heaven, with power to speak the words which Christ commanded to be spoken if He was to descend among us, according to His promise; one sort of man only, and that is a priest.
THE MASS Explained to Children Maria Monessori
becket1-that Star Wars clip was hilarious! [and I loved the ‘original’ Star Wars movie back in the 1970s! Don’t know how many times I saw it in the theaters]
The set looked as if it was borrowed from the entry of the troops into Rome in the film ‘BEN-HUR’, where Judah meets Emperor Tiberius.
Very creative-and it would probably describe the ‘Three Days of Darkness’ in Lost Angeles.
Let’s raise some hope, though. The commentary felt the need to defend this silliness, for one. On what grounds? On the grounds that some tradition was stuck in.
People who are confident and secure about what they’re doing don’t feel the need to defend and justify their acts. They might not admit to themselves that this is wrong; but they know now that a good chunk of the Catholic world disapproves, and they are feeling defensive about it. This shows that they aren’t impervious to criticism, and may even be capable of learning better.
I lost it when I saw the deacon ‘processing’ in with the Book of Gospels.
I’d have to disagree with the initial comment about finding liberal nuns in the classroom. Principal’s office perhaps, pastoral administrator quite likely, but I expect very few of them would be actually found in a classroom. Liberal nuns gave up teaching children years ago.
I was at this Mass. I was in Section 308 of the arena.
I myself am not a fan of liturgical dance. And, yes, there are aspects of the Mass that I would not prefer to see at my home parish every Sunday.
But, despite those aspects, I found it to be a good Mass. I heard the Word of God. The homily gave me new perspectives. And, I received the Body of Christ.
So, as someone who was part of this Mass, I must say that I find some of the comments above to be uncharitable. Christ calls us to love one another. There is nothing wrong with critique — but is it done with love? Are you assuming the best of those with whom you are disagreeing?
I’d also like to suggest that, at some point in the coming years, you personally take part in the L.A. Religious Education Congress. You probably would not agree with its every detail. But, I know that afterwards you wouldn’t refer to it as “Days of Darkness.”
I have been to the Congress four times. For me, they have been days of light.
I love the opening words: “And right now we see the incense carried into the worship space.”
No, Paul, but:
Did you have fun? Personally I like to go to knitting stores to get my kicks. But then everyone to his own.
I wouldn’t be caught dead or alive at the LA Liturgy Congress. Sacrilege can be dangerous to one’s long-term retirement plans.
“Cicada, introduce your husband to a TLM. Make sure you both know what is going on and why; use a missal. As you worship, so you believe.”
Glen, Thank you for your kind comment. Since I have never been introduced to a TLM, it may be quite an adventure for both of us!
Up until a few years ago, it has almost felt “illegal” to attend a TLM. Since I became a Catholic in the late 80’s, you can imagine the viewpoint I received on the subject was slightly biased.
Bob Glassmeyer: “it’s good to hear from a newer convert to the Catholic Church who assists at Mass in the Extraordinary Form. it’s good to hear from a newer convert to the Catholic Church who assists at Mass in the Extraordinary Form.”
Thanks for the welcome Bob. The Holy Spirit brought me to the Catholic Church through a Catholic Radio billboard of all things! Listening to Catholic Radio, reading books, praying, learning the rosary all made me decide it might really be true. So I went to a Mass, it was pretty sad, and I thought Catholicism must only be alive on paper. The Mass was just like my experience as a protestant, except people put water on their foreheads when they walked in, but the manner they did it in made me think it didn’t mean much to them. I walked out sad.
My husband suggested we try a Latin Mass, it might be more traditionally Catholic. Praise God! The Mass was in Latin, I didn’t understand a word, but I understood everything that was happening. I had never met a holy priest, it was (and is) humbling. The walls of the church were lined with people waiting for confession. Everyone annointed themselves very purposefully upon entering the sanctuary, and it was truly a sanctuary. All were there to pray and worship God. I couldn’t wait to go buy a veil!
He is strengthening His Church in His mercy. I praise Him for bringing me into the boat with Peter with the hard times that seem to lie ahead.
Have pity on these folks they have been led astray, but then steady boys, steady, remember Fr. Z. says brick by brick.
tim
I dunno … mebbe they thought, since there were so many people there, they had to imitate the “megachurch” experience?
Yikes.
I kept waiting for someone with a spine to do a Jonathan Edwards “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” smackdown. Instead, I got Bishop Zavala clapping his hands as he was getting into the groove. I suppose I should have expected John Cleese to lead off doing his “Minister of Silly Walks” routine.