Paris – 4 January TLM at St Eugène—Ste Cécile – Card. Vingt-Trois

From a reader:

Some readers may be interested in the news that Cardinal Vingt-Trois, the Archbishop of Paris, will celebrate Mass in the Extraordinary Rite at the Parish Church of St Eugène—Ste Cécile, Paris, on Sunday, 4th January 2009 (the feast of Ste Geneviève, patroness of the city). The occasion will be a farewell to Mgr Batut, the curé and friend of the TLM, who is to be ordained Auxiliary Bishop of Lyon.

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  1. TJM says:

    What positive news, as I seem to recall His Eminence was not, or is not, a staunch supporter of the TLM. Tom

  2. Gravitas says:

    As negative as I am, this is truly amazing.

  3. Andy K. says:

    This is the Cardinal’s SECOND TLM in a month or so, right?

  4. Miracles still happen, Cardinal 23 was one of those really against the TLM, it’s as I’ve been saying, when Tradition returns to France all will follow.

  5. My understing it that the Cardinal is very orthodox and otherwise traditional.His opposition to the TLM was primariy due to the situation in France with the FSSPX and its politacal overtones.The seizure of St.Nicolas did not help.That the heavens did not fall and the FSSPX did not return helped.When the FSSPX did not return after the MP,I think removed the traditional Mass as their battle cry and allowed the entire chucrch to claim it.And the church as even with the bishops,

  6. Truman says:

    I must admit I am wholly lost on Fr. McAfee’s point: the seizure by the SSPX of St. Nicolas in Paris took place in 1977, when the current cardinal had been a priest for some seven or eight years and more than a decade before he began to climb the career ladder as one of the many auxiliary bishops in his home diocese of Paris.

  7. JPG says:

    Great news. Question. Is ther a separate use or rite of Lyon still extant? I remember reading of this in connection with Dom Prosper Gueranger, who opposed its continued use I think.

  8. It is a good news. But even if Cardinal Vingt-Trois is truly part of the Card. Lustiger generation, that is to say very good doctrinal and truly catholic teaching…. has absolutely no sense of liturgy. He But our Americna friends have to understand that the polizarisation between the “tradies” and the “ordies” in France, provoked a liturgical catastrophe, specially in Notre-Dame cathedral. The “ordies” do not want to “look like” the “tradies”, regarding albs, vestments, heratic postures and so on. This is a pity ; thanks God, there are somes exceptions : Mgr Battut, as the pastor of ST Eugene Ste Cecile, a parish that uses both form of the Roman rite, tried to make this hiatus disminushing. A novus ordo mass ad orientem and in some cases in Latin has been celebrated a good number of times, which is a good thing.
    Let’s pray this will not be cancelled as Mgr Battut is consecrated bishop.

  9. Maureen says:

    I think the reference to the 1977 seizure is exactly to the point. If you “grow up” as a priest at a time when all kinds of chaos is going on, but where the really blatant stuff is being done by folks who claim to be traditional — well, obviously if you wanted to be an orthodox, obedient priest you would shy away from being counted as one of the goats. The more stuff was done by LeFevre and the SSPX, the farther you would have to go in the other direction. And of course, the strain of fighting against either a natural inclination towards the old ways or the fullness of the Church’s tradition — well, it would tend to make you very rigid and humorless on exactly those points which you would love to be gentle and generous about.

    But now the Holy Father has come to France, and insisted that it is time for generosity and gentleness. So the Cardinal does the Holy Father’s bidding. Good for him, and good for all of us.

  10. Malta says:


    One might also say SSPX are the sheep forced to cling to tradition at a time when faith, morals and were crumbling in the Church. “generosity and gentleness ” is the exact opposite to the way the sinister Cardinal Villot and others have treated SSPX.

  11. Martin says:


    Please, by all means, learn to write Monseigneur Lefebvre’s name correctly. In French, there are no such things as uppercase letters inside words.
    Thank you.


  12. Martin says:

    Franklyn McAfee

    Monseigneur Vingt-Trois, “very orthodox and otherwise very traditional”? Are you out of your mind?


  13. Marc says:

    One has To remember that St Nicolas du Chardonnet was so empty in 1977 that it was no longer a parish and was attached to St Severin. At the same time Cardinal Marty staunchly refused to allow the TLM to be celebrated in any church in Paris, and traditionalists had to rent rooms. When they walked into St. Nicholas, and celebrated Holy Mass they brought back the liturgy and joy to thousands. At the time, many writers, and other intellectual figures that had protested the demise of the traditional Mass attended. At Nicholas became a reference for the TLM and still is. We all owe a lot to that parish which is one of the liveliest and best attended in Paris. The return to tradition has also preserved it from the architectural vandalism that has unfortunately disfigured so many churches in Paris.


  14. Martin: Tone it down if you are going to post comments.

  15. Malta says:


    Ironically another factor which has kept churches in France from sharing the fate of our wreckovated places is that the French government prohibits major renovations (or the removal of relics etc) at many cathedrals. This reminds me of the georgous Loretto chapel in Santa Fe NM, which is wonderfully intact and was spared the fate of its sister basilica only because it is no longer operated by the diocese.

    Of course the French government also by turns turned Chartres into a temple of “reason” and seriously considered tearing it down to use as paving stones. So things have improved in that respect, but I understand many other churches in France may soon be lost due, mostly, to the fact that only 8% of the catholic population still attends mass.

  16. Altbanater says:

    I thought St. Genevieve’s feast day was January 3rd.

  17. pelerin says:

    Things do indeed seem to be moving in France. A priest from the diocese of Belley-Ars has commented on a site that he celebratese two Masses each Sunday – one a NO in French at 10 am and the second a sung Latin Mass at 11.30 am.

    On Sunday 30th December he counted 19 people at the 10 am Mass all of whom he described as being of the ‘third age.’

    At the Latin Mass he had over 90 people present – of all ages including families, children and adolescents.

    It is good news that Mgr Vingt-Trois has celebrated Masses in the EF but wouldn’t it be wonderful if he would celebrate the EF at the High Altar in Notre-Dame each Sunday? I do not know which Cardinal was responsible for the modern altar there but I for one would not be sorry to see it go. Along with the strange elongated figures on a pillar they are just not in keeping with the majesty of the building. I am surprised the secular authorities, who I understand own all French cathedrals, allowed their introduction.

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