I understand that a pro-life Catholic was "gunned down".
Do you suppose that will get as much coverage as the shooting of the abortionist Tiller?
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I guess that depends on why. If this person was gunned down because he was an anti-choice Catholic it would certainly be news worthy nationally. If not, than probably not.
I guess that depends on why. If this person was gunned down because he was an anti-choice Catholic it would certainly be news worthy nationally. If not, than probably not.
Comment by kester
What do you mean by anti-choice? Do you mean anti-abortion?
The story was already on the news. Will it be as big as the Tiller shooting, probably not. You know how stuff that the media wants to suppress is shown on Friday.
“I guess that depends on why. If this person was gunned down because he was an anti-choice Catholic it would certainly be news worthy nationally. If not, than probably not.”
First, I must strenuously object to the characterisation of the pro-life position as “anti-choice”. And I am particularly surprised to see this written here. Abortion ends choice. It is _not_ a legitimate one.
This Comment serves to show the double standard Fr. Z is talking about. Even now, it has not been shown that Tiller was killed _because_ he was an abortionist. Apparently his killer had a number of reasons for disliking him and stalked him until he killed him. All the news coverage at the time of Tiller’s death presumed the reason was abortion, but never established that.
Fr.’s point is made further by the fact that I still have not heard who this is who has been gunned down. The newsmedia’s policy of silence on the atrocities committed against Pro-Lifers has been clear for some time now. I expect I will have to sift pretty carefully through the news to find any reference to it. In the meantime, I will pray for this poor soul.
Whatever term we use (and yes, anti-abortion is more proper, to be sure), unless we find out that he was killed *because* he was an anti-abortion activist—that he was killed by a pro-abortion activist—this story is not really parallel to the Tiller killing.
Even if the story is found to be parallel to the Tiller murder, it will not be treated in the same way.
Fr. Kelly,
Tiller was a national figure, killed during a church service, by an anti-abortion activist. It seems clear that the abortion issue figured into the motive, but let’s grant that the matter is unclear.
Pouillon, the anti-abortion activist, was a local figure, was killed in a somewhat less dramatic fashion (i.e., not during church), and by apparently an acquaintance who later killed a business owner (CWN has the story). At present nothing even hints at the murdered being a pro-abortion activist.
I agree with you that there is plenty of double standard when it comes to things like this. But this is not the best example of media double standard because the two episodes are not parallel enough.
Now, if it is discovered that Pouillon’s murdered is a pro-abort, then we’ll see how the media responds.
Kester What sort of choice are you talking about? Do you mean he was gunned down b/c he was in favor of giving parents the choice of which government school to attend? Or whether he chose to eat meat or not? What sort of choice do we have to find out about?
Seems like you mean ‘was he anti-abortion’; that answer is yes. I doubt that there is anyone in the USA who can be deemed ‘anti-choice’. What exactly did you mean? Can you be clear which choice you are talking about and then what it means?
No way would this get any attention. The pro-lifer is not nationally well known as Dr. Tiller was, but even if he was this incident would not get the same attention.
Pro-life activists are considered an extremist group right? We don’t deserve any attention from the POTUS. It would be inconsistent with his agenda.
Fr Kelly,
Kester is more interested in imitating Pontius Pilate than Christ.
Fr. Kelly, You objection is nothing but a bunch of hot air (there are also many other words for your lack of intelligenance but, I will not go there).
According to the reports yesterday, the man who was murdered in front of the school was a Christian pro-life advocate. I believe he was not Catholic, not that it matters especially with respect to his pro-life support or with respect to his death. God is merciful.
The reports also indicated that his killer said he shot the victim in front of the school multiple times because the killer objected to the graphic posters/images/placards the dead man was known for holding as he exercised his First Amendment rights.
The first reports also said that the killer shot and killed another person, a businessman, and had plans to murder a third man. The reasons for the other killing and the planned murder were not given; they may or may not have been related to the killing of the pro-life advocate.
I’m sure the administration will say that they did not respond yesterday because of 9/11 observances, etc. And that will surely be the only thing they say. I hope a reporter or two will press the President for a response. And I am sure that he and the Justice Department will talk around their reasons for not dispatching security personnel to protect pro-Life protestors.
We shouldn’t expect too much, at least not in this world.
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven.”(Matthew 5:11,12)”
“Remember the words I spoke to you: If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me.”(John 15:20, 21)
Pray for the dead men. Pray for the killer. Pray for the conversion of the President, the Vice President, their Cabinet officers, and their appointees.
Fr. Kelly, You objection is nothing but a bunch of hot air (there are also many other words for your lack of intelligenance but, I will not go there).
Your belligerent attacking of a man of God notwithstanding, how do you spell “intelligence?”
I believe it’s I-R-O-N-Y.
vox borealis –
If you read the Associated Press article, it says the following:
“It started around 7:20 a.m. across the street at the high school, where James Pouillon stood with a sign that pictured a chubby-cheeked baby with the word “LIFE” on one side and an image of an aborted fetus with the word “ABORTION” on the other. Pouillon was a well-known activist in the town of 15,000, who often had one-man demonstrations outside area schools and city hall.
Harlan James Drake, 33, drove by the school Friday and gunned Pouillon down in front of horrified students and parents, Colbry said.
It was Pouillon’s presence outside the high school that seemed to drive Drake to kill, said assistant prosecutor Sara Edwards.
That “seemed to bother him …. the fact that he was outside the high school with his signs in front of children going to school,” Edwards said.
Prosecutors said they didn’t know if Drake knew Pouillon personally or if only by reputation as a local protester.
Students said they regularly saw Pouillon outside their high school and that he often greeted them, but didn’t shout slogans or try to start up a conversation with them.
“I can see someone spitting on him or punching him, but shooting him is pretty stupid,” said 16-year-old Curtis Wisterman.”
So, we can see from the article that Mr. Drake was annoyed that Mr. Pouillon was showing the truth to the high school students. These high school students can be taken for abortions without parental notification or consent – even though they need written consent from a parent to take Motrin or Claritin.
Note that Mr. Drake was angered at the man displaying the CONSEQUENCES of evil deeds perpetrated by OTHERS. For this, ordinary citizens like 16 year old Curtis Wisterman think – even if it is a bit extreme to SHOOT Mr. Pouillon – he could see spitting on him or punching him. Yes – punch the man for exposing the dismemberment of children to those who can – without parental knowledge or consent – go have this performed on their own children by men like Dr. Tiller on any day of the week. Why is the anger directed to those displaying the consequences of other’s actions? Especially when they are being displayed to an audience which is a prime “market” for this “service”?
The fact that someone would exercise his “right to choose” on an adult – and kill – because he objected to the man showing the truth about abortion makes him a “pro-choice” activist in the purest sense. There are a lot of angry people in the world who carry post-abortive guilt. Pro-life people bear the brunt of their anger on a daily basis all across the country. Pray for sidewalk counselors, prayer supporters and those who “show the truth”. May God protect them and bless them for their courageous witness.
“Fr. Kelly, You objection is nothing but a bunch of hot air (there are also many other words for your lack of intelligenance but, I will not go there). Kester”
You keep popping up on various Fr. Z threads with little substance to offer. What is up with you? Intelligence not Intelligenance!
As I said, Kester is more inclined to Pontius Pilate than Christ.
should be “than to Christ”.
Anti-choice is a really bad choice of words for posting here, as the whole ‘pro-choice’ moniker is sugarcoating the issue…
I read about this on cnn.com (it was on the front page on Thursday). I do not read newspapers or watch television, so I would not know how it was covered by mainstream media.
Who cares about news coverage…When will James Lawrence Pouillon be raised to the altars?
Another interesting question: when the most radical pro-abortion supporters let slip snide comments about how the guy deserved it and it’s no great loss, will they be covered as extensively and used to paint the entire pro-abortion side with that broad brush, as when the same thing happened regarding Tiller?
From the Areas Pastor:
This Friday, September 11, 2009, was a very tragic day for Owosso and for Shiawassee County, Michigan. On behalf of St. Paul Church, Owosso, I wish to convey my deepest sympathy and prayers to the family and friends of James Pouillon and Mike Fuoss, the victims of today’s violent murders. I also want to express my solidarity with the students of Owosso High School, innocent bystanders to this tragic crime. James Pouillon was deliberately targeted for his fervent pro-life beliefs. While many in the Christian community in Owosso strongly disagreed with his approach, they admired his passion, zeal and determination to protect and preserve human life, at every stage, from conception to natural death. Jim was adamantly opposed to violence and to killing. Although Jim wished that many in the Catholic community, and indeed, in all of the Christian Churches, shared his unwavering views on abortion and dignity of human life, he remained a good Christian and a faithful Catholic.
Fr. John Fain
Pastor, St. Paul Church
Owosso, Michigan
First please except my apology for the typo. With such important issues at hand, I am (or maybe I shouldn’t be) surprised at the response from this group. I also find it interesting when there are those on this list who attack me for attacking a “man of God” yet many of you have no issue attacking other people of God when you disagree with them.
The bottom line is weather pro or anti choice, this man’s violent death is a tragedy. Just like Dr. Tiller’s violent death.
The bottom line is weather pro or anti choice, this man’s violent death is a tragedy. Just like Dr. Tiller’s violent death.
Comment by kester
Why not have the onions to call it what it is?
Kester,
You criticized someone’s intelligence, then wonder why certain people criticize you for errors not only in spelling but also in punctuation.
Why do you fail to follow your own rules?
This is just a blog – it’s informal and not an essay contest. You should really get over yourself.
BTW, I did call it what it is — both deaths are a tragedy. You don’t agree?
Kester – questioning Fr. Kelly’s “intelligenance”, asking others to, “First please except [sic] my apology…” (should read “accept”) plus your poor punctuation does not give others the impression that you yourself are the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Further, voting ‘yes’ for women’s ordination on the poll in the Cincinnati newspaper would make most question your fidelity to Church teaching:
Thanks for the heads up! I just voted yes.
Comment by kester — 2 September 2009
there are also many other words for your lack of intelligenance
….
Good Old Kester; usually when you are making fun of someone’s intelligence you make sure you can spell the word!
weather pro or anti choice
….
Kester Your posts are a laugh riot! You make fun of other people’s intelligance :) but simply can not spell, and you can not explain which choice you are talking about! We are all pro choice, in that we believe in having choices. Apparently, you are pro abortion, which is something else.
I guess that depends on why. If this person was gunned down because he was an anti-choice Catholic it would certainly be news worthy nationally. If not, than probably not.
Comment by kester
What do you mean by anti-choice? Do you mean anti-abortion?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN ANTI-ABORTION? DO YOU MEAN PRO-LIFE?
Do not use the language of the culture of death.
It seems Father’s question has been answered at this point – there has been nowhere near the amount of coverage of this as there was of the slaying of George Tiller.
PS – Father Z. ban the troll, pliz.
#
PS – Father Z. ban the troll, pliz.
Comment by Bogna — 13 September 2009 @ 4:17 pm
Why? It is good for some other opinions. What does it hurt. The person is outnumbered already. I just don’t agree. I did not like the disrespectful tone toward the priest, but this helps others see where this is all coming from/headed. Very informative. BTW, I am a recovering troll. Trolls actually perform a useful service from time to time.
IGNORE the troll. DNFTT!
he remained a good Christian and a faithful Catholic.
BEATO SUBITO!
This is just a blog – it’s informal and not an essay contest. You should really get over yourself.
Comment by kester
I was over myself long ago. On the other hand, I have to say that I have never gotten over phonies like you, who are afraid to take an honest look at yourself.
Your problem is that you criticize others for not being intelligent, yet your comments are typical of someone who can neither think nor write.
BTW, I did call it what it is—both deaths are a tragedy. You don’t agree?
Comment by kester
You’re even dumber than I thought. The topic was your choice of the cowardly phrase “anti-choice”.
I was in error about Mr. Pouillon. My belief that he was not Catholic was based on the earliest news reports.
As our priest said in his homily yesterday, it is still possible to be martyred for being Christian and Catholic. I’m very sad that it is possible to be so martyred in the United States of America.
Sad, Bill? Don’t you mean, joyful?
We should emulate our forefathers at the English College in Rome, who would chant a Te Deum every time one of their alumni was found worthy to be disemboweled for the faith.
James Lawrence Pouillon, pray for us!
Mary Stachowicz, pray for us!
C. –
No, I meant “sad.” It is sad that our country has come to this, and that the elected leaders of the nation, by their silence, give tacit approval. As far as I have seen, not one single Senator, Representative, Cabinet officer, or member of the Executive Branch has said one single thing about this killing.
You are welcome to feel joyful about this if you wish.