By the fruits of the fruits

I saw this graphic at CMR:

I read in the New York Post this morning a story about a young woman who lost her job because the Occupy idiots have driven down business in the shop she worked in.  Business declined.  The owner had to lay people off.

Perhaps she will get her job back when winter sets in and the protesters go home.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. AnnAsher says:

    I don’t agree with the OWS crowd in fullness. I didn’t go join up. I don’t approve of uncivil behavior. I do wonder if some of the cost was unnecessary policing – though clearly some was needed, unfortunately. I am also skeptical that crimes were committed by actual OWS people vs. degenerates that are simply drawn to crowds. In which case, if the Tea Party had the wherewithal to have extended presence I wonder if the figures would match up? I also don’t agree 100% with the tea partiers. Here is what I think: I think it is good people are waking up and noticing that the status quo is unnacceptable. I see how OWS actually embodies the Catholic teaching of Subsidiarity. I see that the Tea Party represents our need to be able to vote FOR someone, not AGAINST the less desirable.
    So crimes aside- I think it is good America is finally awake! If you accept Catholic Prophecy then you know it is going to get worse before it gets better and I suggest we Flee to the Fields. Two book titles for you there.

  2. AvantiBev says:

    I am a 56 woman of 16 years of private education, 12 Catholic. We just had a reunion at NU’s homecoming weekend and I was saying to my sorority sisters, many of whom are footing a steep bill for their own children’s college education, how grateful we should be that we had the opportunity to have some of the tough, old school profs just before they retired or passed away. I really despise what my fellow Baby Boomers have done now that they run the education systems in our country. Every time one of these poor, ill-informed, maleducated OWS college kids open his mouth struggling to form a cogent sentence, I thank God for my parents’ sacrifices and for the nuns who taught us according to the Trivium – grammar, logic and rhetoric. [My sister, just 4 years my junior and going to the same Catholic schools, did not have exposure to the Trivium as the nuns had become enthralled by new post-60’s methodology.] I learned how to learn and that stood me in great stead at Northwestern and all the years since.

    Listening to their interviews and rants, I think some of these poor kids thought education was VO TECH – vocational training with a job guarantee. The old school Catholics and the old school profs at secular institutions did not look upon education’s purpose as such.

  3. wmeyer says:

    The OWS folks are, in the most charitable terms I can suggest, idiots. They champion the government which offers “solutions” through bankrupting the country and protest against the people and institutions most able to actually help them improve their lives.

    On the other hand, the Tea Party comprises people who are trying peacefully to take us back from the brink of the disaster the politicians (both flavors) have created.

    So it’s only natural that the media come down on the side of the OWS.

  4. irishgirl says:

    What you said, AvantiBev! I’m a year older than you, and agree with you totally!
    I really despise the OWS protests and how they’re keeping honest people from trying to make a living (re: the waitress who lost her job in NYC). This should have been nipped in the bud from the very start!
    Time to get out the tear gas and crack a few skulls! And maybe throw in a water cannon for good measure–most of these protesters could use a good hard bath anyway!

  5. Bryan Boyle says:

    @Irishgirl: Like your style, m’am. I’d even spring for the cases of Lava soap and Fuller bristle brushes to apply said bath to them.

  6. Supertradmum says:

    Are they all really unemployed? If so, wouldn’t it be better is they spent their energies either looking for work or re-training for something else? I had to do that, instead of teaching Literature, Theology and Philosophy, taught Logic, Debate, ESL and other good stuff, shifting from what I was trained to do to other areas in order to work. Same is true for one out of three of my brothers. Trained as an engineer, went back and did Otolaryngology at doctoral level, and now, because of Obama science cutbacks, a third time, doing astronomy in a private business. Better learning how to do something than sit in a tent or park and create chaos.

  7. AvantiBev says:

    Irish Girl and Irish Boy(le): You misunderstand me. I think the ones to blame – get your water cannons to campus — are the PROFS and “edukaturs” of the past 40 years. These young skulls full of mush, and bodies full of unscrubbed bacteria, are too ignorant to know what riches of true learning they have been denied. To paraphrase Rumsfield: they don’t know what they DON’T KNOW. I blame my generation not theirs.
    Listen to how often these mushy / squishy kids when questioned about an opinion, begin ‘Well, I FEEL….” They do not use the words “think” or “believe” let alone “know”.

  8. wmeyer says:


    You’re on the right track, but it goes back much further. Look to John Dewey for the beginnings of the transition to an indoctrinaire factory.

  9. Corinne says:

    I think it is rich (no pun intended) that Fr. Z, a priest who lives off the backs of others, who posts pictures of his lavish meals and bird feeders, remarks about people protestimg the crimes committed by Wall Street which have effected the lives, JOBS, and MEALS of thousands and thousands. That’s rich. Enjoy your “fortune cookies” Fr. Z.

  10. ecs says:

    The idea that the OWS crowd has any thoughts of subsidiarity is absurd. The OWS crowd is nothing more than a small collection of ill informed malcontents demanding a government controlled communist economic system. To the extent that any of them are good hearted people honestly seeking the truth, they are just simple minded saps being taken advantage of.

    The only political movement in the United States that has any notion of subsidiarity as part of its creed is the tea party.

  11. ecs says:

    Corinne –

    You are a prime example of the limits of the human intellect and the inherent dangers of universal suffrage in a democratic society.

  12. Supertradmum says:

    Oh dear. I need to defend the good padre. Many of us take great pleasure in all of these blogs. As to “lavish meals”, since when are Ukrainian or Polish dinners “lavish”. Hardly top sirloin or something from The French Laundry. And, as to the good priest, Father Z, living off the backs of others, I think if you had a blog, and were a priest as busy as he, you would not be able “to hack it”, as we say in the Midwest. The teacher, prophet and priest deserves our pay, whatever it is….And, I am not rich, saying this, but very poor and not occupying anything but trying to trust in Providence. I, for one, wish him all the comforts God wants to give him, as I would wish anyone good food, good drink and good company, as well as birds. Go buy some Mystic Monk Coffee and chill out.

  13. Mr K says:

    Good grief! Is this a neo-conservative echo chamber? How do you folks get on about the OWS protesters putting people out of a job when Wallstreet and the Big Banks ripped off our country to the tune of 5 TRILLION dollars? This boggles my mind…

  14. mwa says:

    “Half of the respondents are already employed full-time, and an additional 20% work part-time. Just 13.1% are unemployed–not a whole lot more than the national average.” from a study based on a survey of 1,619 visitors to the site on October 5

  15. Supertradmum says:


    You are spot on about Dewey, who I studied years ago when working as a curriculum consultant and helping schools go back to Classical Ed. Dewey, part of the Utilitarian movement, and a progressive socialist. More than any one person, Dewey created the modern American educational system as it stands today, as opposed to the Classical Tradition of Trivium and Quadrivium. Like Bismark before him, Dewey was into making modern citizens rather than independent thinkers, in the line of Bismark’s creation of the “gymnasium” over the classical “academy”. I have given many lectures on these points.

  16. Supertradmum says:


    Apologies about errors in my comment on Dewey-and do not believe anything on the Internet on Dewey-there is a lot of pro-Dewey adulation out there.

  17. tealady24 says:

    Some people.

    OWS and others.

  18. wmeyer says:


    No worries. The roots of our current problems go back further than most people realize. Dewey was the first architect of the propaganda mill in the classroom. After him, it simply got worse.

    The Democrats mastered long ago, like >100 years ago, the concept of small incremental victories. They have been chipping away at our foundations slowly and steadily for all that time. Only now have they achieved critical mass, with a Supreme Court which views the Constitution with disdain, and sees its role as that of fixing society’s ills.

    Our founding fathers, watching from on high, must be disgusted with us, as they foresaw these problems.

  19. Phillip says:


    …Phyllis, is that you?

    I don’t understand how accepting gifts, freely given, constitutes “living off the backs of others” – especially when those gifts are given in appreciation for his writing and Evangelisation efforts, which certainly much be hard work.

    On an on-topic note, I also don’t understand how the Tea Party movement can cost nothing. Surely they require a police presence at some of their larger rallies and such? Perhaps I’m just misunderstanding what the graphic means.

  20. wmeyer says:


    I am sure that there is some cost for police coverage of Tea Party rallies, just as for any appearance by a candidate. However, I think the point being made was that the police at Tea Party rallies are much less busy than with the OWS crowd. I have no idea how difficult it might be to acquire the actual figures; for the OWS, on the other hand, the costs have been big news.

  21. Gulielmus says:

    For what it’s worth– the text on the graphic is not wholly accurate. There were a number of arrests for trespassing and disorderly conduct at the big Tea Party rally here in DC a while ago. And what does “Cost- $0” mean? The taxpayers certainly pay plenty for all demonstrations here in DC whether we agree with their goals or not.

  22. Clinton says:

    Gulielmus and wmeyer, there is also the consideration that many organizers of Tea Party
    rallies followed city regs and paid for permits and security, and rented portable toilets,etc.
    The organizers of the larger Tea Party events paid handsomely for their rallies. I believe
    the Tea Party in Atlanta is requesting a refund of the fees it had paid the city for the rally
    they held months ago. It seems the city had decided to waive any charges/permit requirements
    for the OWS group now occupying the same park the Tea Party had used. That hardly seems
    fair to the law abiding citizens of the Tea Party.

  23. wmeyer says:


    Quite right.

  24. AnAmericanMother says:

    When you are able to provide the first-class translation service that the good Father makes available to us gratis, with solid references and commentary on collects, the Latin authors and the Church Fathers, as well as instructive and amusing asides on ornithology and haute and not-so-haute cuisine, do please start a blog of your own.
    We’ll give you some hits, some donations (the laborer is worthy of his hire) and we may even buy some Mystic Monk Coffee . . . . that might improve your attitude substantially.

  25. PostCatholic says:

    Those are the sort of statistics that come from the same bin as “Nine out of ten people enjoy a gang rape.”

  26. Supertradmum says:


    I hope you saw my comment above the apology on Dewey, the American Bismark in education, as it didn’t come through for awhile. May I add that the USA education system has worked its horrible agenda on the last two generations, who do not know how to think through a problem, as seen here sometimes on this blog. These young ones merely react to emotional stimulus and are incapable of objectivity, only wanting to “be nice”. By the way, I read Lord of the World last Tuesday in a few hours. Closer than we think, as the lack of thinking is obviously a point in Rev. Benson’s classic.

  27. wmeyer says:


    Don’t hold back; tell us what you really think!


    You’re right, your post on Dewey was not visible when I wrote. I must differ with you to this extent: the American education system would have worked its horrible agenda on me–beginning with See Spot run–had it not been for my parents, who were determined to instill in their children the ability to reason and research for themselves, as well as a healthy skepticism for what is taught in the classroom. So it has been more than two generations, as I am almost 63, and frankly, it was in progress before I was born. A suitable marker might be the date on which the McGuffey Readers were cast aside in favor of psycho-fluff engineered to teach as little as possible.

    Lord of the World was excellent, prescient, and chilling. I read it and have recommended it to others. I am now reading Mark Steyn’s After America, all the more chilling for being topical. Highly recommended, but bleak.

  28. wmeyer says:

    A little dose of reality:
    – Corporations are treated under law as persons, which although a useful fiction, may be a contributing factor in our problems.
    – Officers of public corporations have a legal responsibility to make and keep their corporations profitable. Failure to do so leaves them liable both to suits from minority shareholders (women, children’s trusts, pension funds) as well as from unwelcome attention form the SEC and DoJ.
    – In consequence, when the government continues to change the rules for the market, the officers of these corporations are legally bound to find a way to continue the profitability of their companies. As well, as fictitious persons, the corporate entities are entitled to engage lobbyists.

    These are not by way of excusing the inexcusable, nor justifying the acts of corrupt individuals, whether in private or public sector. However, if you do not fully appreciate these realities, then you may uncritically accept the Venn diagram offered by mitch_wa as a true and full summary.

    The OWS folks are protesting what, in their ignorance, they are incapable of understanding. I have to believe that behind closed doors, the ruling class are doubled over in laughter at these folks.

    The Tea Party folks are protesting the endless growth of our government, which I would liken now to a stage 4 cancer. The government does not grow itself–it grows because individuals we elected to office gather together and devise the “need” for new bureaus. The unanswered question is how to reverse the trend of the last 100+ years. Given that a large percentage of people under 50 have had no training whatever in principles of reasoning, this will be a very difficult task.

  29. irishgirl says:

    AvantiBev-no, I didn’t misunderstand you at all. I’m a Baby Boomer like you. I grew up like you in the 1960s and 1970s with all the campus demonstrations and the radical ‘profs’. I also blame the ‘edukators’ [good description!] in our schools. I’m totally with you on that score!
    Bryan Boyle-thank you! If I had the money, I’d gladly provide the said soap and the said brushes!

  30. salve95 says:

    OWS is just a bunch of braindead hippies who don’t even know what they’re protesting.

    Case in point:

  31. salve95 says:

    For the record – I am against both large government and large corporations, but if you’re going to protest either at least have a clue what you’re doing.

  32. wmeyer says:

    salve95, you do ask a lot ;)

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