Some love from the Religion of Peace… in France:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jg8EeL7zD8&feature=player_embedded
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“Religion of peace,” indeed… First stop, France, and certainly not the last. Please pray for those poor souls, both the ones doing the attacking and those being attacked.
Not a religion as much as a political ideology hiding under the mask of “religion”. Whatever it is, it is and has been a threat to all non Islamists for centuries. Europe is slowly learning to regret allowing mass immigration of Muslims. Sadly the USA, especially under the current regime, will not learn the same lesson quickly enough.
Very sad. I believe this might be the future here.
Very sad. I believe this might be the future here.
I want to make one observation. To put it bluntly, Fr. Z, you seem to like posting these articles and videos about how Muslims are such a threat to Christians, but I wonder, would you say the same thing, publically, about the Jews, for example? I wonder, would you post on your website an example of some Jewish movie director releasing an anti-Christian film which blasphemes the Catholic faith–and believe me, there’s no shortage of them–with a headline that says “Jews attack…” or some variation of that? Obviously you wouldn’t. So why would you do it to the Muslims?
Radical Islam is emboldened because so many of us Christians are weak in our faith. The primary threat is our rapidly accelerating cultural decay (see Fr.’s previous post).
-Iacobus M
http://vitafamiliariscatholica.blogspot.com/
@fib09002, do you see the difference between a physical attack on Christians resulting in bodily injury on death from members of a cult whose ideology incites them to violence against unbelievers and who believe they reach heaven by their acts of murder and a movie?
So many people buy into the “religion of peace,” not realizing that peace means when all become Muslim unless of a sect with which sect a disagrees. And the “tiny minority of extremists” which ignores the fact that Muslims don’t denounce this sort of behavior. Yeah, maybe they’re not actively killing anyone but you know what? That’s what their religion teaches.
Muslims are running amok worldwide, killing those of other faiths. It’s finally starting to get press that indicates what’s truly happening rather than the bogus “sectarian violence” which, up until recently has meant Muslims attacking non-Muslims or Muslims they disagree with…now Christians are fighting back in Nigeria and the CAR. Why? Because they’re sick of Muslims killing for no reason than that their religion dictates. They may also have been listening to Twisted Sister.
@Nan: I know that Sr. Joan Chittester’s speaking can incite anger, but actual violence?
Seriously, though, both the attack and the lack of coverage don’t surprise me one bit. The only upside I see to the push against fossil fuels is that – if successful – it’ll destroy the economic power currently wielded by certain Islamic states.
@Irradiated, little known fact, polyester pantsuits by their very nature incite violence. What?
I’ve also read articles suggesting that Saudi Arabia, which spends money like water, is going to run out of it as they’re going to run out of oul; US oil production is a huge threat to their economy. Yay ND and TX!
Nan:
I wasn’t defending violence against Christians. All I really mean, however, is that the idea that the greatest threat out there to the Catholic Faith are Muslims, is just plain wrong. Now, to be sure, although I don’t like the fact that Muslims tend to be so intolerant of non-Muslims that they think they have a right to kill them, there are something that can be said in their defense, at least if we were to compare them to the followers of other faiths. But in any case, if we’re to be honest, Christians and Jews have committed far more acts of unjustified violence against Muslims than the other way around over the past, let us say, 50 years or so. So if we’re going to get all excited about an attack on a church in which nobody even died, lets also talk about what’s happening to the Palestinians, or the 100s of 1000s–perhaps even 1,000,000s–of Muslims killed as a result of the American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
But again, the question I put in my last post is a valid one. If we’re going to talk about the Muslims, why not the Jews? (Or, for that matter, any other group of people in opposition to the Catholic faith.) Catholics used to talk about these things, in case you haven’t remembered.
@fib09002, again, there’s a huge difference between Muslims killing non-Muslims simply because they aren’t Muslim and Muslims dying in a war. With regard to the Palestinians, I don’t know what you mean; I do know that the Palestinians are not people who lived in Israel historically and that their objective is to obliterate the Jews. They fire rockets to Israel regularly and hide their fighters in schools, mosques and hospitals, then claim it’s unfair if Israel retaliates, hitting the locations in which the fighters are located. Not only that, Israel treats Palestinians in their hospitals with no problem. They’re occupiers who are trying to take over the Holy Land for their own unholy purpose.
Note that in both Afghanistan and Iraq there are several nations involved, not just the US.
Define “unjustified attack” and give examples of Christians and Jews as the aggressors. Saying it doesn’t make it so.
Muslims are killing hundreds or thousands of Catholics in Nigeria, Egypt and Syria. Now they bite the hand that fed them. No gratitude to Christian Civilization from these youths.
Hello Fr. Z. Thank you for unlocking me from cyber detention.
This Youtube clip dates from a year ago. Why does the clip show Notre Dame in Paris when the incident took place elsewhere? The text beneath the video says it took place at the Sanctuary of Notre Dame de Santa Cruz in Nimes. Click on the link, sit back and enjoy it.
http://www.sanctuairesantacruz-nimes.cef.fr/
Where were the photos of the stone throwers taken?
It is all a bit thin on fact and loaded with sensation, complete with the valedictory nazi salute.
Can any readers direct us to a decent report about this incident?
Why not Jews? Because they don’t seem to have a habit of attacking people coming out a church.
And when they do attack, they do it with their words, not fists.
With respect, Nan, you are totally wrong about Palestinians. Palestinian Christians are not called Living Stones for nothing. Their ancestors heard Jesus preach. This is just a simple fact of history.
Wiktor – We have had stones thrown at us by members of an ultra-orthodox sect in Jerusalem. You just have to go off the well-beaten track that most tourist companies prefer you to stay on and you get a better picture of the numerous religious factions, even among Jews.
Dear RANCHER,
you are, forgive me, wrong. There is absolutely no reason why Islam should not be what its adherents earnestly say it is, viz. a religion – not, if one is not confused by a prejudice that religions are just quite good thing with perhaps minor stains, but the most important thing be to be,religious at all, or so.
No, Islam is a religion. A false one, with dangerous precepts like that one about killing the Christians in sura 9. But there is no reason to assume they (believing Muslims) do not really (however mistakenly) believe God said that.
If it were really a political ideology (btw. ceteris paribus something less bad than a false religion), they could perhaps say so but never believe so.
Martlet,
You should be aware that the ultra-orthodox are a minority even among Orthodox Jews and that even their fellow travelers have condemned their actions.
And we’re speaking specifically of Palestinian Muslims here, who have no intention of living side by side with anyone else. Do you think the Palestinian Christians will be safe when Palestine becomes an independent country? Anyone who has read Islamic scripture knows that won’t be the case. The Muslims will turn on them like mad dogs the moment they’re no longer useful.
Zombies…
@fib09002
Perhaps you’ve been missing out on Fr. Zs other more controversial posts. Not only does he share many articles about the Muslim threat to Catholicism, he also shares political threats and, worst of all, threats to the faith from Catholic ordained and religious alike who try to spread theology that is not in line with church teaching. He is not one sided in his warnings against threats to the integrity of the Catholic faith.
Please don’t feed the energy monster people. “…you seem to like posting these articles…” is concern trolling at best and a subtle but sleazy insult at worst. The subject at hand is a very real and manifest assault on Catholics, and to turn it into All About The JOOOOOOS is a rabbit trail and jamming.
Scott W. :
You’re right. I could have phrased what I said better. I apologize (to Fr. Z) for that. But still, the question still stands. I think that what Fr. Z does is truly blessed work, but all I’m saying is that so long as we are going to be pointing out how much of a threat Muslims are to (as Gratias puts it) “Christian Civilization”–if such a thing even exists anymore–than we ought to at least be talking about all of her other enemies as well–and among them, I’m afraid to say, are many (not all, but many) Jews. So why don’t we talk about them?
@fib09002,
Nice try at a straw man. The Iraq and Afghanistan invasions had nothing to do with religion. However, you seem to forget mentioning, that there has been thousands of Christians killed in Africa as a result of Muslims invading and imposing Sharia Law. See Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, Egypt, etc.\
Also, since when is there militant Jews trying to impose their religion on Christians?
this is my last post, and I’ll be brief.
CrimsonCatholic:
It is true the those invasion weren’t do to religion, necessarily. All I was pointing out though was that, when looked at honestly, we see that Muslims over the past 60 or so years–lets start from, say, 1948–have been far more the victims than the perpetrators of violence around the world. So what if some churches were blown up in Nigeria? I agree, it is horrible that that is happening. But interestingly, I don’t see anyone losing any sleep over the million Iraqis were are dead and the many more who were displaced from their homes as a result of the United States’ actions in that country. And this is not to mention the Israeli/Palestinian issue.
….Which, by the way, brings me to my point regarding the Jews. Here is what Pope Pius X had to say to Theodor Herzl, the recognized founder of modern Zionism: “We cannot prevent Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we can never sanction it. Jews have not recognized Our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people. They had ample time to acknowledge Christ’s divinity without pressure, but they didn’t. Should the Jews manage to set foot on the once promised old-new land, the missionaries of the Church would stand prepared to baptize them. Jerusalem cannot be placed in Jewish hands.” It is all well for us to complain about Muslims, but why is it that Catholics don’t talk like Pope Pius X anymore ? That was all that I was getting at.
This is so sad especially since it is being ignored by the world. Our brethren need our prayers.
Christopher Manion of the Fitzgerald Griffin Foundation has a good review of Robert Reilly’s b0ok on “Catholic Muslim Dialogue” here: http://www.fgfbooks.com/Manion/2014/Manion140219.html
I followed this link to the YouTube video and note it was uploaded over a year ago, i.e. 12 February 2013.
I’m guessing that, since the video mentions some ecclesiastical celebration in connection with St. Don Bosco whose feast day is 31 January, this film was produced on or about 31 January 2013.
@fib09002 Catholics don’t talk that way anymore because of the Holocaust. Plain and simple. Hitler did as much spiritual damage to the world as he did physical damage it seems.
On the flip side it is nice to see that there are still some Catholics in France who attend Mass…
Priam1184 says:
@fib09002 Catholics don’t talk that way anymore because of the Holocaust. Plain and simple. Hitler did as much spiritual damage to the world as he did physical damage it seems.
As Georges Bernanos put it: Hitler gave anti-seminitism a bad name.
This is only one which Americans can watch via Canada. More attacks are common and the false, dis-informational American media do not cover these things.
The EU cannot control these youth and some neighborhoods both in France and England cannot be entered by Christians.
No one really cares about the real anarchy of the Muslims in Europe and most leaders are in gross denial.
More and more, it seems to me a good thing that a sizable number of people in the U.S. live in country areas, on the land, with room for dogs. Room for hunting. Dogs and shotguns: good to keep on hand.
During one U.S. episode of unrest, entire commercial areas of one city were being burned out. The Italian community in (I got this second-hand) all took out their lawn chairs and their weapons and they blocked off access to their streets. When rough-looking youngsters brandishing what appeared to be Molotov cocktails began to approach their area, the lawn chair sitters, while still seating, nonchalantly fired into the air. The youngsters scattered, and were no more to be seen. Next morning, the businesses and the homes in the Italian district were the only ones not razed to the ground.
@robtbrown Pius X’s statement was not anti-Semitism, it was just the truth. A truth that the Catholic Church clung to for over nineteen centuries: from Titus’ destruction of the Temple in 70 AD until the fuzzy post Holocaust statements in Nostra Aetate and Dignitatis Humanae that everyone seems to have interpreted to mean that our Lord didn’t really mean what he said before his Ascension about preaching the Gospel to ALL nations. For some odd reason we seem to think that everyone is now free to do as he pleases with regard to religion as long as they just leave us alone don’t bother our ever aging and shrinking private club.
I don’t know when the Canadian item was broadcast but this is old news. By putting it on YouTube it has of course brought about many hateful comments towards the Muslims. And putting a picture of the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Paris was very misleading.
I found a newspaper item on the internet dated 5th October 2011 giving details. The chapel of Notre Dame in Nimes was founded by French Christian ‘ pieds noirs’ from North Africa when they settled in France and the local mayor surprisingly allowed the construction of a mosque just a few metres away which has caused tension there. A few lines at the end of the news item mentions that local youngsters threw stones at the cars and coaches which had gathered for an event there. No mention was made of attacking any of the people present. Such violence is not unknown in city suburbs in France and certainly not restricted to moslem youth there.
Priam1184 says:
@robtbrown Pius X’s statement was not anti-Semitism, it was just the truth.
They are not mutually exclusive.
A truth that the Catholic Church clung to for over nineteen centuries: from Titus’ destruction of the Temple in 70 AD until the fuzzy post Holocaust statements in Nostra Aetate and Dignitatis Humanae that everyone seems to have interpreted to mean that our Lord didn’t really mean what he said before his Ascension about preaching the Gospel to ALL nations.
A few points:
1. The situation with the Jews is unique because of the relation between the Old Law and the New and because Salvation came through the Jews.
2. Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah promised to the Jews. Not only was He rejected by most of His own people, but certain leaders conspired to have the Romans put Him to death (It is expedient that one man should die for the people). IMHO, that is anti semitic .
3. What happened in Germany in the 30s and 40s was mostly driven by nationalism (cf the Gypsies).
Demographics are destiny. Scenes like this will be impossible to ignore in the next decade or so.
Pelegrin wrote, “I don’t know when the Canadian item was broadcast but this is old news. By putting it on YouTube it has of course brought about many hateful comments towards the Muslims.”
I’m puzzled by this observation. Are you puzzled about YouTube viewers’ reaction to seeing Muslims throw rocks at Christians leaving a place of worship?
You thought maybe the YouTube viewers should have reacted instead with: “throwing rocks at pedestrians leaving church would seem pretty bad, but, after all, the rock-throwers are Muslims. And we love all that Islam stands for, and the Muslim way of life, so, . . . while throwing rocks isn’t a nice thing to do, but we figure, these Muslim youngsters are basically nice boys, good boys, and they should get a talking to after their suppers, but only by their fathers, not by the police. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.”
Does that sound something more like what you would have actually expected?
Marion – no of course not. But when I read comments like ‘Nuke Mecca’ following the moslem youths violence in Nimes surely you would agree that this was a comment out of all proportion? By putting the video up on YouTube and exaggerating the details it encourages anti-moslem comments in a similar way to anti-semitic propoganda of the past.
I am living in France in Cassis, a small coastal city close to Marseille.
So far as I know, I didn’t hear about anything similar to these purported “attacks” by the last weeks. I would like to know with accuracy where and when these pictures were taken.
“So why would you do it to the Muslims?”
Why, indeed, Grima?
Pelerin – well said. Now I understand you better.
On the other hand, I don’t remember seeing or hearing major news outlet stories about stone-throwing Muslim youth in France. When the news blacks things out, I appreciate people putting things on YouTube.
Dear rotbrown,
Your disagreement, such as it is, with Priam, would appear to be over the proper definition of “antisemitism.” Based on virtually any definition put forth by modern academia, the media, or Jewish interest groups, I would have to agree with what I believe to be your point. Indeed, by this standard, the New Testament is rife with antisemitism.
As a tool for communication, however, the word “antisemitism,” in its modern sense, is not a very precise or useful one. It is more useful – and invariably used – as a club for ending communication.
Cordelio,
That was Bernanos’ point: Hitler changed the meaning of antisemitism.
@robtbrown Anti-semitism is the RACIAL hatred of the Jews. And Hitler didn’t change the meaning of anything: the racial hatred of the Jews (and of many others) came with the worship of the nation that came after the Reformation deposed the Church from her supreme position in European life. Hitler absorbed that fin de siecle anti-Semitic madness when he was a vagabond in Vienna and through a series of twists of fate that stagger the imagination was able to form a political party that would work to enact his will and through it to gain mastery of an advanced industrialized nation that was capable of bringing such horrifying plans to fruition.
The Old Covenant was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. If it wasn’t then why did those 3,000 Jews bother to get themselves baptized on Pentecost? The Dual Covenant theory that some post Holocaust theologians have tried to put forward (or at least hinted at) is completely bogus and is repudiated both by the words of our Lord on multiple occasions and even by the prophet Jeremiah (Jer. 31: 31-34). To act otherwise is to do ourselves no good, to do the Jews no good, to do the Muslims no good, and to do the world no good.
@Marion,
I had heard the same about the Koreans protecting their stores from looters and others protecting their neighborhoods from thugs.
Many leftists tell me that there are going to be riots. I don’t respond; they freak out when people talk about guns so make good targets for thugs.
I really don’t know how a post on Muslims throwing stones at Catholics coming out of mass in France turned into a discussions on the Jewish people. After watching this video and videos on Palestinians thowing rock into crowds of people I had a thought, as anyone ever thought about introducing the game of baseball to these people they have a natural throwing motion? Could be a way of constructively focusing all that natural ability and give them a means of venting all that anger. In a couple of centuries maybe these extremists could play games against people of other religious beliefs.
The incident seems to have happened in 2011 when Muslims attacked Christians attending a Catholic celebration in Nîmes, at the Sanctuary of Our Lady the Virgin of Santa Cruz in southern France. So the video is a bit misleading. However, all orginal videos seem to have mysteriously disappeared and the media pretty much turned a blind eye. If you look at the first link, the video no longer exists.
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2011/11/02/arab-spring-in-france-muslims-attack-christians-coming-out-of-a-church/
http://islamversuseurope.blogspot.com/2011/10/muslims-stone-catholic-festival-goers.html
Grace mentions the disappearance of videos and using her first link I see that the video accompanying the text is indeed no longer there. ‘This video does not exist’ appears on it and seeing that this site headlines ‘They really are trying to kill you’ I don’t think it was removed so as not to offend moslems. Is it not more likely that they realised facts had been exaggerated at this event and it would not be in their interest to keep it there?
Sadly stone and rock throwing by youths is not uncommon especially in ares of tension – look at Norther Ireland during the Troubles when both Protestant and Catholic youths pelted the police, army and each other with bricks and stones.
As for news of events happening in France not being mentioned elsewhere I find this commonplace. Even though France is our next door neighbour here we get little or nothing in the way of news from France. What might be the leading news in France will not get a mention in Britain (unless it refers to a Briton). I took part in the ‘Manif pour Tous’ demonstration last year in Paris along with a million others and found that none of my friends here even knew about it as they had seen no coverage here. If I want to know what is going on in France I watch the French tv news on the internet. (Following the serious recent floods in our two countries the French news mentioned England and showed scenes while any British news I have watched has made no mention of the French floods at all. ) For British journalists France does not exist!
Thank you Grace.
I have visited the links, and was glad to find the photograph of the newspaper article – a bit blurred, but legible. Stones were thrown at cars and coaches when the pilgrims were leaving after the celebration, and they had to divert their route to avoid them. In short, French Catholics attend a reunion, many of the participants had been displaced from Algeria after independence, they get stones chucked at them by North African louts, and the local police aren’t too bothered.
Michael Coren’s report is totally over-egged, provoking a measure of multilateral vitriol in the Youtube comments and a certain amount of argy bargy here.
Why not direct our energies into novenas to St. John Damascene? Feast day coming up on 27th March.
@RJHighland Probably because the video itself is (with all do respect to Father) kind of a joke. It was put up on YouTube over a year ago so whatever happened to inspire it is hardly news. It is full of still photos that could have been taken anywhere and run together. The video claims that these ‘attacks’ took place in southern France but they keep showing pictures of Notre Dame in Paris (not in southern France) AND MOST OF ALL it was produced by the Sun: a notorious tabloid. I am not certain what exactly motivated Father to put this up but it is what it is.
This video was taken in Oct of 2011. Why is it just being reported now?
“Christians and Jews have committed far more acts of unjustified violence against Muslims than the other way around over the past, let us say, 50 years or so. So if we’re going to get all excited about an attack on a church in which nobody even died, lets also talk about what’s happening to the Palestinians, or the 100s of 1000s–perhaps even 1,000,000s–of Muslims killed as a result of the American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.”
@fib09002. What possible numerical evidence have you for that outrageous statement?
1. There is no WAY that christians and jews have committed far more acts of unjustified violence against muslims than the other way around.
This is an astounding statement. I really want to know your evidence because all evidence is to the contrary as far as I know.
2. “if we’re going to get all excited about an attack on a church in which nobody even died”…let me say it’s no big deal to YOU because you…..weren’t…….there……If you experienced a raging horde of crazed muslims outside your church after Mass you’d say differently. Would you fear for your grandmother coming out? Your baby? The other innocent people who may not make it to their homes? Would it affect you next week as you decide whether or not to attend? Can you imagine it may make some poor elderly person too afraid to go? Insensitive comment.
3. You talk about the number of muslims killed in the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan. How many servicemembers gave their lives because they were trying to help the Iraquis rid themselves of a man so evil he gassed his own people, or conducted “rape rooms” as part of daily operations? American and allied troops understand freedom, and they wanted it for Iraquis and Afghans who were often suffering from the muslims in their own lands. So much so they left their families and gave their eyes, limbs, their lives. How dare we talk as if they had nothing better to do and raced over to the miserable middle east to kill muslims for no reason.
Your statements are the kind I read in newspaper comboxes or student newspapers and which make me lament the foolish populace we seem to have now that always empathizes with the perpetrators and not the victim! Misplaced compassion!
Many missionaries shed their blood trying to convert the muslims. It is not that it wasn’t tried. Putting the “blame” on christians for the bloodshed that has resulted from the thousands of years of muslim attacks is crazy. Or saying christians haven’t “done enough”. This is just not reasonable or logical thinking and belies the reality that muslims have multiple reasons for wanting us all dead and will stop at nothing to try to get us there. When people talk as if they are “just another group” and no different from any other they are putting their silly heads in the sand and this is not going to help keep us safe and alive at ALL.
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/02/20/report-texas-islamic-village-linked-extremist-group-pakistan
22 Islamic villages linked to terror groups–in the US. They are not about peace.
I remember the Palestinians celebrating in the streets after 9/11. Those planes were not being flown by Christians or Jews. I waited for the Muslims in the U S to express outrage and except for a very few–I am still waiting. That has been eye opening for me.
Your post was exactly right Kathleen10.
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