Card. Kasper, ladies and gentlemen. The Gift that Keeps on Giving.
From LifeSite:
Cardinal Kasper: Homosexual unions are ‘analogous’ to Christian marriage [Sure! Both of them involve carbon-based life forms!]
March 14, 2018 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Cardinal Walter Kasper, whose theology appears to be the chief inspiration for Pope Francis’ doctrine on giving Holy Communion to people living in states of adultery in second marriages, now appears to be claiming that homosexual unions contain “elements” of Christian marriage and are even “analogous” to it in a way that is similar to the relationship between the Catholic Church and non-Catholic Christian communities. [Get it? Those other Communities aren’t living the “ideal” but what they have is great.]
Moreover, the cardinal is attributing his claims to Pope Francis’ apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia, despite the fact that the document explicitly contradicts him.
“The pope does not leave room for doubt over the fact that civil marriages, de facto unions, new marriages following a divorce (Amoris Laetitia 291) and unions between homosexual persons (Amoris Laetitia 250s.) do not correspond to the Christian conception of marriage,” writes Kasper in a recently-released book on Amoris Laetitia.
“He says, however, that some of these partners can realize in a partial and analogous way some elements in Christian marriage (Amoris Laetitia 292),” continues Kasper. [?!? Such as…. fighting over balancing the check book? Seriously. What on earth is he thinking? What is under consideration is either a proper sort of charity involved in proper friendship, or it is a deep twisting of friendship through other entirely uncharitable activities.]
Kasper compares such relationships with the relationship between the Catholic Church and non-Catholic Christian groups, whom Vatican II says contain “elements of sanctification and truth” of the Church. [Sigh. Interesting comparison. Let’s turn the sock inside out. So, being Catholic is like being sacramentally married, and being a Lutheran is like … what? Being a couple of homosexuals?]
“Just as outside the Catholic Church there are elements of the true Church, in the above-mentioned unions there can be elements present of Christian marriage, although they do not completely fulfill, or do not yet completely fulfill, the ideal,” adds Kasper. [And there it is, ladies and gentlemen, “the ideal”! No one should be held to an “ideal”.]
The statements appear in Kasper’s new booklet, “The Message of Amoris Laetitia: A Fraternal Discussion,” which was recently published simultaneously in German and Italian.
In the same work, Kasper also insinuates that Amoris Laetitia opens the way to permit the use of contraception, a practice that is universally condemned in the Scriptures, Church Fathers, and the Papal Magisterium, most recently by Popes Paul VI and John Paul II. [The gift that keeps on giving, ladies and gents.]
Kasper notes that in Amoris Laetitia, the Pope only “encourages the use of the method of observing the cycles of natural fertility,” and “does not say anything about other methods of family planning and avoids all casuistic definitions.” In the context with the book’s passages on communion for those who commit adultery in second “marriages,” which use similar language, Kasper appears to be claiming that the pope is allowing for exceptions to the Church’s condemnation of artificial birth control.
Kasper contradicts John Paul II – and even Amoris Laetitia
Kasper’s words regarding homosexual unions appear to directly contradict not only the doctrines of John Paul II but even Amoris Laetitia, the document he purports to explain.
Under the papacy of John Paul II and the administration of Cardinal Josef Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI), the Holy See’s Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith expressly repudiated the idea that homosexual unions can be “analogous” to marriage. The document was issued in 2003 and received the approval of John Paul II. [HUH? 2003? That was 15 years ago! So much has changed since then.]
“There are [NB:] absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family,” the Congregation declared. “Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law. Homosexual acts close the sexual act to the gift of life.’ They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”
The paragraphs in Amoris Laetitia cited by Kasper to justify treating homosexual unions as “analogous” to marriage contain no clear reference to homosexual unions but simply refer to the “constructive elements in those situations which do not yet or no longer correspond to her teaching on marriage.” [Okay.]
However, Amoris Laetitia states in paragraph 251, “In discussing the dignity and mission of the family, the Synod Fathers observed that, ‘as for proposals to place unions between homosexual persons on the same level as marriage, there are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family.’” Francis and the Synod Fathers are quoting the same 2003 document of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith mentioned above.
[…]
Sigh.
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At which point do two things become essentially incompatible? You can look at a Satan worshipper and say, “Well, at least they believe in a higher being.” At some point you have to tell a person that they are headed down the wrong path and are placing their soul in peril.
Knowing that God has and will always have the final word is about the only thing keeping me going these days. To see everything that I hold near and dear and sacred being twisted into something it was never intended to be is disheartening.
Lord have mercy on us and on the whole world. PLEASE help the clergy that have these “feelings & thoughts” to NOT speak them as clergy but ONLY as individuals after stating that they are speaking on these as individuals.
Kasper’s theological credentials have well passed the expiration date. What he said is just plain stupid. Coming from a cardinal? Scandalous on top of stupid.
Apparently Card. Jasper doesn’t understand the word “analogous”.
And can I just say I’m tired of the homosexual apologists and activists appropriating the sacrament of marriage for their own nefarious purposes? Get your own “sacraments”. Male + female = marriage. If you can’t hack that then move on. Stop hiding your disordered inclinations behind my marriage. Get spiritual or psychological help if necessary but stop acting like you’re just like me. You’re not.
Cardinal Kasper, by his own logic, should bless my relationship with my cell phone. I mean:
1. I have to sign a contract before I can take it to my home to be with me
2. It takes a while to get used to living with it
3. I talk to it almost every day
4. I look forward to seeing it in the morning
5. It is often the last thing I look at before I go to sleep
6. I am responsible for its upkeep
7. I can ask it questions and it almost always responds
8. It can take time to warm up on a cold day
9. It’s pretty
10. There are substantial monetary penalties if I break the contract before it goes dead.
I mean, cell phone, dog, cat, friend – my relationship with each is in a partial and analogous way to marriage, by his logic.
He is trying to say that an inner tube without a cut in it and one that has a cut are analogous, but topologically, no homeomorphism exists, even though some points can be lined up between the two. Not to be too indelicate but heterosexual marriages and homosexual, “marriages,” do not share the same topology, thus, by definition, they are not, properly speaking, analogous, merely equivocal.
Analogy depends on context overlap and the two types of relationships are incongruous in the context of marriage. The necessary elements do not and cannot overlap. This is not something Cardinal Kasper gets to pronounce on. He may be a famous theologian, but I am an expert on analogy and incongruity and he has just made a statement about an analogy, not merely theology, and I am telling him, as an expert, that he is wrong.
Does he need a diagram? A formula (because, I have one)?
I’m sorry that I come off sounding confrontational. I have worked on this for twenty years. I know what constitutes the difference between necessary and possible attributes in context spaces. I can, easily, disprove Cardinal Kasper’s assertion, because, as I say, either he agrees, by his own logic, that my cell phone and I have a blissful marriage or he should quit making these analyses. By his logic, I can even prove that my relationship with my phone is like that of the Catholic Church and other denominations. He talks around the essentials, hoping that we will substitute merely possible attributes, which do allow him to make these sorts of statements, for necessary ones, which do not. This is a shell game, substituting accidents for substances.
Sorry. This sort of disingenuous argument gets me angry. If Cardinal Kasper really believes what he says, then I shutter to think of what he thinks the essentials of marriage really are.
I don’t mean to make a blanket condemnation of his work (of which I know next to nothing). I am merely commenting on this case and the facts as presented in the article cited.
The Chicken
Where I come from one would say that the cardinal is full of more stuff than a Thanksgiving turkey.
Insert your definition for “stuff” here: [ ]
Terrifying…. I mean, I think of Sodom & Gemmorah and how they were destroyed. The world is careening towards punishment at full speed. Apparently Cardinal Kasper must have crossed that part of his bible out as it didn’t agree with his thoughts on mercy.
“Cardinal” Kasper, please keep talking. Please keep contradicting the magisterium of Holy Mother Church. That way in the future , when we have a new orthodox catholic pope, you will be on the recorded with your nonsense and be easily called out and excommunicated. Not that it would make a difference to you because by your words you have excommunicated your self but you won’t be able to wear the fancy clothing and red hat.
Dear Father
I am homosexual. I am, I can’t help it. It is a cross I carry. But all of us carry one cross or another, whether homosexuality, or pride or arrogance or whatever. I know that. But we all have to try and follow the teachings of the Church and trust. When younger, a very good confessor put it into context and reminded me that other serious issues are carried by all of us, so I’m not special or deserving of some special dispensation or allowing of any hip or contemporary absolution to be cool or relevant. I’m not different. It got me to understand that many of us carry many and different burdens which, by prayer, we can conquer, or at least live with faithfully, following the Church’s teaching. It’s not easy, but each day I remake resolutions and, by the grace of Almighty God, keep going. If the Church now tells me that I could have lived my life in a way that she’d never said was ok before, I’d feel betrayed and that I’d wasted 50 years on this planet and I’d give it up. I’m not special but I know the sense and wisdom of traditional teaching and baulk at what seems to be change for change’s sake in order to move with times that aren’t those of God but just to get with it. Prayer is good; the Rosary is good; Holy Mass is ace. I know I might fall tomorrow but I hope I won’t. Pray for me. I’ve never articulated this before.
[God bless you.]
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When does the Pope, the preserver of the Catholic faith, get around to declaring Cardinal Kasper a heretic?
When does the CDF get around to declaring his works heretical?
When do the rest of the faithful cardinals and bishops get around to declaring, before the whole world, that the Pope and CDF have failed their duty, fallen down on their obligation, refused to act as they are required?
It is really hard, sometimes, to make comments on controversial topics without becoming uncharitable and shrill (and even prideful). I think I may have overstepped in my comment, above. I apologize to Cardinal Kasper to the extent that I have been uncharitable.
My persona as The Mask Chicken is supposed to be a perpetual reminder that I have these tendencies. Things have been getting away from me for a while. Comments in comboxes should always be respectful, even if the person to whom you are responding has touched a nerve.
I apologize.
The Chicken
God bless you indeed, Vincent1967. Characters like Kasper and James Martin make me feel very weird and isolated. As another SSA Catholic struggling to be faithful, it’s very good to be reminded I’m not alone.
If you are in hell as an unrepentant sodomite, or, possibly an adulterer, could it be possible that Cardinal Kasper and Pope Francis will make the forgiveness of those Mortal sins retroactive. Changing, what has been church teaching for over two thousand years is ridiculous, these men are exhibiting their stupidity for all to see.