Outstanding analysis from Prof. Royal and Fr. Murray on the eve of the conclusion of this Synod (“walking together”).
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on Francis’ NEW “Desiderium desideravi” an Apostolic Letter “on the liturgical formation of the people of God” – an attempt to explain Traditionis custodes, to calm the storm: “@Imrahil, Bishop Fellay wrote about it, see here: http://archives.sspx.org/superior_generals_news/the_problem_of_the_liturgical_reform/the_problem_of_the_liturgical_reform.pdf Paragraph 57 is particularly instructive, but the phrase ‘Paschal Mystery’ appears…”
on Francis’ NEW “Desiderium desideravi” an Apostolic Letter “on the liturgical formation of the people of God” – an attempt to explain Traditionis custodes, to calm the storm: “It may be instructive to look at Pope Francis Catecheses on the Mass in conjunction with this Apostolic Letter. Those…”
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on Francis’ NEW “Desiderium desideravi” an Apostolic Letter “on the liturgical formation of the people of God” – an attempt to explain Traditionis custodes, to calm the storm: ““BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE… I urge those of you who are on the “trad” side of things (whether “mad, sad or…”
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on Francis’ NEW “Desiderium desideravi” an Apostolic Letter “on the liturgical formation of the people of God” – an attempt to explain Traditionis custodes, to calm the storm: “Simplifying translation: “Vatican II is still way cool and I still don’t understand liturgy, but I have really good intentions…”
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Mr. Royal makes a good point: even discussing mortal sin (i.e., falsely suggesting or implying that “LGBT” is a type of truth) as if it is debatable damages peoples’ faith.
I didn’t hear him mention this, but discussing mortal sin as if it is a matter of opinion will lead people to hell – especially those bishops and priests who refuse to strongly denounce such discussions.
These matters are already settled and have been settled for 2000+ years. They are not debatable. Nor should they be discussed openly because those discussions are exploited by evil people who lead others to hell.
But too many people have already made the aforementioned comment. What is surprising is the few number of priests and prelates who have made that comment.
On a related note, the other day this commentator heard a priest mention that “being a jerk pushes people away from the Faith”. One can sympathize with that priest to a certain extent. But that statement could easily be used as an excuse to water down, ignore, and then ultimately deny Jesus.
It appears as though the aforementioned priest and others like him somewhat mis-understand their role as priest – they are not politicians who are called to use rhetorical tricks to convince people to enter or stay in God’s Church. Instead, they are more like mail-men whose duty is to accurately, regularly, and timely deliver God’s Message (His Word) and Gifts (the Sacraments). They act in persona christi. They do not act in persona Bergoglio, Cupich, Wuerl, etc.
They cannot open God’s mail and even slightly alter His Message because they think they are being “jerks”.
Being a mail man is not even a close analogy, though, to what it means to act and live “in persona Christi”. To be “in persona Christi” one must use His words, actions (particularly rebuking and admonishing), etc.
Many have already said this, too – Jesus words sound like words of a “jerk”, but He was not at all a jerk. He was genuine and timely in His delivery.
Priests may discover that one trait people most look for in a priest is “authenticity” or “genuineness”.
Most people don’t like phonies who sugar coat, water down, etc. False Catholics like watered down words, but they only want that to validate their own evils.
All a priest has to do is say, “these are God’s words. I cannot change them, nor do I want to change them, nor do I want to water them down. If you miss Mass on Sunday without good reason it is a mortal sin [1st Commandment]. Homosexuality is mortally sinful. Abortion is mortally sinful. Contraception is mortally sinful. Pornography is mortally sinful. Voting Democrat is mortally sinful. If you commit even one of those sins and then die without repenting and changing your life, you will end up in everlasting pain and starvation and thirst.” The priest can then give any analogy of serious suffering which can be used to assist in understanding being condemned to hell forever. Most people have experienced the serious suffering of nausea and vomiting associated with viral infections. Imagine a suffering far worse than nausea and vomiting which lasts for eternity. That is what hell is. Repent, change your life, and stop sinning.
To end this somewhat-of-a-rant by answering refutations: people will wrongly suggest that this type of preaching is manipulation or attempting to motivate by fear. It is not motivating by fear – it is simply acknowledging the Truth. The Truth – that many go to hell (Luke 13:22ff, Mathew 7) – will scare a lot of people, but that does not mean it is attempting to motivate through fear.
Some great points raised by the interlocutors there. Progressive cardinals and bishops would have us all believe that – to put things crudely – the only thing young people are interested in is sex. I agree 100% with the assertion that there is not enough talk about Christian vocation and the meaning of Christian life – of what it means to live a truly fruitful life as a young person, and, ultimately, I think that is what young people are thirsty for – meaning in life.
Second, kudos to Bishop Fouanya, I bet THAT went down well with Team Francis…
Third – much as I appreciate the insightful analysis above, I am inclined to be skeptic as to its usefulness; this “synod” is rigged and conducted without any regard for traditional and collegial synodal norms. I shudder at what the actual final draft of the resulting final document will say.
Yes, the Church does need to change! The Church needs to teach the teachings of Christ .. not this wishy washy try not to offend anyone. This summer, I returned to my hometown for my grandfather’s funeral. I didn’t recognize the interior of the church. The high altar was gone. It took me a while to find the tabernacle. The kneelers were gone. The statues were gone. The choir was up front instead of in the choir loft. My children kept asking if we were actually in a Catholic Church. The truths need to be preached! The truth about marriage, abortion, contraception need to be preached. I am so fortunate that my husband insisted on learning natural family planning during marriage prep. My pre-marriage thinking was career, maybe two children, and contraception. Praise Jesus for the priests who are true to church teaching and were patient with me in helping me understanding church teaching. I had many struggles along the way, but now I feel so free!!! – Stay-at-home, homeschooling mother of 7 who uses my education in running an efficient household and homestead. :)
One thing that the priests in the SinOdd don’t realize is that we as a Catholic people NEED STRUCTURE! We need perimeters, otherwise we stray into dangerous, immoral areas. We crave things that are Traditional and beautiful; they bring us before God with a sense of wonder and grattitude. We need those boundaries so that we don’t stray into the devil’s territory. My generation was denied the true Catechism,the beauty and wonder of the Latin Mass, and the rhythm of the Church’s Liturgical year and look at how we have ended up. The Church is a lighthouse in this dark world and people like Cupich, James Martin and their ilk are covering that light so that we dash our ships(souls) on the rocks.
@NBW: The scary thing is that the current Curia supports and promotes the likes of James Martin. I fear for the next generation of our youth.
[That tells you a great deal about the people who surround Francis.]
Again “walking together” over the cliff.
When will the PBS children’s programing asserting to be “theology” be wrapped upped and dumped?
This morning I came across this from Blessed John Newman: “Those who make comfort the great subject of their preaching seem to mistake the end of their ministry. Holiness is the great end. There must be a struggle and a trial here. Comfort is a cordial, but no one drinks cordials from morning to night.”
He’d be surprised to see they’ve moved far beyond cordials.
It is being reported that all of the LGBT “stuff” has been vetoed by the Pope. We’ll see if that turns out to be accurate, but the sources in question are usually reliable ones.
JabbaPapa: “It is being reported that all of the LGBT ‘stuff’ has been voted by the Pope”.
Good God, to slightly paraphrases Malta above: the scary thing is that the current Curia even allowed that dreck to be in there in the first place. The really scary thing, of course, is that this mindset didn’t just spring up overnight. It’s been in place for – what? – at least two generations now, if not more. No, probably a lot more, it just sinks back into its lair when it feels threatened and then re-emerges when things seem opportune, as they very obviously are now.
Henry Sire’s book “Phoenix from the ashes: the making, u making and restoration of Catholic Tradition” sets out how it happened – and much more. It was written in 2015, so the “restoration” bit might be a bit premature, one sadly is led to feel.
My boxing coach in college was a Priest in his late 60’s (RIP). He was a real man, and could take and deliver a blow as hard as any of us. He taught us to be men. He never displayed a hint of attraction, in the wrong way, towards us (he was the beginning of my formation to becoming Catholic). Then you have this James Martin guy, who is doing just the opposite: he welcomes young men to be sissies.
JabbaPapa: Take note of Donna Montagna’s reportage at LifeSite. When I read Sandro Magister’s piece the other day on this topic it made sense but we aren’t dealing with an enterprise which references reality. They always use a back door when the front provides too much exposure. See:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/smuggling-lgbt-into-the-youth-synod-doc
@JabbaPapa: you’re so 2010. The acronym is now: LGGBDTTIQQAAPP: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lggbdtttiqqaapp-lgbt-inclusiveness-training-flyer/
Just kidding! Well, maybe not. No, but I’m glad if Pope Francis vetoed the LGBT stuff.
@Benedict Joseph: my two oldest kids identify as bi-sexual. It has been really rough on me (and I love them, but tell them they will go to hell if they die living that lifestyle, so now they don’t talk to me). It has become ‘cool’ to be gay among our youth. If I marry my fiance I’m only going to homeschool. The Church is in dereliction of duty towards our youth, who’s souls they should be trying to save, instead of playing fast-and-loose with them. Even if the preaching is hard to hear.
It is so helpful to hear some direct talk on this, thanks to Raymond, Mr. Royal, and the much appreciated Fr. Murray. They are informing millions of mainstream Catholics, who would not ordinarily hear this information. When I see discussions of EWTN programs, there are inevitably many who feel this should not be discussed on EWTN, as if anything negative about this papacy should not be brought up at all. So they are under some pressure, many thanks to them for persevering in spite of silly Catholics.
Cdl. Marx would want to stop talking about LGBT. It is accomplished. Once Leftists have advanced their cause to this point, they prefer to divert attention and let the issue just settle in, as it will. Why push it now, the debate is over, they got the LGBT in there, and it will refuse to go away. This was their goal, and for now, it is enough. This push on “synodality” is their way to make sure all manner of craziness will be magisterium from here on in. Decentralizing authority is one more death knell for the papacy and the faith, a church run by many committees and public opinion. See that big, open window? Objective Truth just flew out of it.
I’m sorry, but we’re fighting over a hollowed out shell. By all means let’s keep going, we have no choice, but, for them it’s mission accomplished.
It’s getting near the point where one has to ask themselves, what’s worse, a schismatic church or silent passive acquiescence to programmed error.
@DonL: one needn’t be schismatic to resist everything a certain pontiff stands for; just think of Dante putting Boniface VIII in the lowest circle of his Inferno even before Boniface died.
http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2013/12/08/saints-say-that-road-to-hell-is-paved-with-skulls-of-bishops-and-priests/
Urgh: “vetoed”, not “voted”. Hmmm…
Heartbreaking….these Cardinals “are blind, and leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit…..”
@ Malta, who said: “The Church is in dereliction of duty towards our youth, who’s souls they should be trying to save, instead of playing fast-and-loose with them. Even if the preaching is hard to hear.”
My wife says this *all the time* and she, being of Irish descent on both sides of her family, is… well, none too happy about this dereliction. (yes, she has that Irish temper – um, *righteous* Irish temper!)
We live in a very rural area about an hour or so from Indiana U. (the place I call Kinseyland – and the town where babies are murdered every Thursday at PP downtown)
This, coupled with the fact we are also about an hour or so from a Benedictine seminary (not very well known for it’s orthodoxy towards the faith these last 40+ years), has unfortunately led to virtually *nothing* being said about SSA(M), gender identity or the whole alphabet-soup-folk nonsense. Nothing. (yes, Mass attendance is dropping like a rock)
Dear Lord in heaven help us.
About all I can do, at least for now, is to keep going to the TLM, FSSP parish, and keep praying for the Holy Father and his errant Bishop/Cardinals. I still must trust in Christ.
Good comment, Benedict Joseph: “They always use a back door when the front provides too much exposure.” Another way to look at it — the train is coming to a curve, so Francis is slowing down just a little. But soon the next straightaway will come, and then, it’s engines full blast.
The final document is here :
http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2018/10/27/0789/01722.html
In Italian only so far.
So much talk of homosexuality and so little talk about starting families and having babies. Do these clerics know where babies come from? It isn’t from the elderly! Young people start families and have babies. Young people! It is as if these clerics have thrown up their hands and have given up on the idea of the Christian family and have accepted the sexual proclivities of the modern world. Why else would they have such a perverse focus?
so little talk about starting families and having babies
Well, on marriage, there’s :
Accompagnamento al matrimonio
162. Va ribadita l’importanza di accompagnare le coppie lungo il cammino di preparazione al matrimonio, tenendo conto che ci sono diversi modi legittimi di organizzare tali itinerari. Come afferma Amoris laetitia al n. 207, «non si tratta di dare loro tutto il Catechismo, né di saturarli con troppi argomenti. […] Si tratta di una sorta di “iniziazione” al sacramento del matrimonio che fornisca loro gli elementi necessari per poterlo ricevere con le migliori disposizioni e iniziare con una certa solidità la vita familiare». È importante proseguire l’accompagnamento delle giovani famiglie, soprattutto nei primi anni di matrimonio, aiutandole anche a farsi parte attiva della comunità cristiana.
… and this (more dubious) on motherhood and fatherhood :
La famiglia punto di riferimento privilegiato
32. La famiglia continua a rappresentare il principale punto di riferimento per i giovani. I figli apprezzano l’amore e la cura da parte dei genitori, hanno a cuore i legami familiari e sperano di riuscire a formare a loro volta una famiglia. Indubbiamente l’aumento di separazioni, divorzi, seconde unioni e famiglie monoparentali può causare nei giovani grandi sofferenze e crisi d’identità. Talora devono farsi carico di responsabilità che non sono proporzionate alla loro età e li costringono a divenire adulti prima del tempo. I nonni offrono spesso un contributo decisivo nell’affetto e nell’educazione religiosa: con la loro saggezza sono un anello decisivo nel rapporto tra le generazioni.L’importanza della maternità e della paternità
L’importanza della maternità e della paternità
33. Madri e padri hanno ruoli distinti ma ugualmente importanti come punti di riferimento nel formare i figli e trasmettere loro la fede. La figura materna continua ad avere un ruolo che i giovani ritengono essenziale per la loro crescita, anche se esso non è sufficientemente riconosciuto sotto il profilo culturale, politico e lavorativo. Molti padri svolgono con dedizione il proprio ruolo, ma non possiamo nasconderci che, in alcuni contesti, la figura paterna risulta assente o evanescente, e in altri oppressiva o autoritaria. Queste ambiguità si riflettono anche sull’esercizio della paternità spirituale.
—
But ask yourself : is this “little” not perhaps a bullet dodged, given that some wanted this document to be basically Amoris Laetitia II : Rise of the LGBT Youth ?