CCC 2499

11 Comments

1. Semper Gumby says:

   14 May 2021 at 8:23 PM

   Yes, that includes the malicious pagans at the Vatican and so-called “Common Good” wicked Integralists.
2. JustaSinner says:

   14 May 2021 at 8:45 PM

   Simper Gumby: NAILED IT!!!
3. Thomas S says:

   14 May 2021 at 10:04 PM

   Semper Gumby and/or JustaSinner,

   I’m not read up on the question, though I’ve heard the names of major players like Adrian Vermuele and Sohrab Ahmari. What is the issue with Common Good Integralism, and does it differ from the run of the mill Integralism that defined so much of the ordering of Christendom for centuries?
4. OzReader says:

   14 May 2021 at 10:41 PM

   Well that puts most of the Middle-Eastern theocracies in hot water, doesn’t it? Would the same be true of the Puritanical theocracies of old, too?
5. Semper Gumby says:

   14 May 2021 at 10:58 PM

   JustaSinner: Thank you.

   Thomas S: A helpful introduction can be found here in the comments below the post:

   https://wdtprs.com/2021/04/once-upon-a-time-there-was-a-super-catholic-land-called-quebec/

   The following paragraph is an expansion of the comment dated 7 May 21 at 10:09, it is an additional observation by James Diddams regarding a Steubenville conference in March:

   “Reno [editor of First Things], describing himself as not yet sold on maximalist integralism, said that he could foresee changing when someone is “inaugurated president of the United States with no religious implications [like a consecrating prayer]. I can easily imagine that happening in the next 20 years and when that does happen it will put a person like me who is not ready to sign on to the maximalist integralist program in a difficult position…Can I really be loyal to a regime that has functionally repudiated any need for divine consecration?”

   Integralists are blind to the two-edged sword and several other problems.
6. Semper Gumby says:

   15 May 2021 at 11:50 AM

   OzReader: Yes, from Calvin’s “Christian” police state to Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza today- who are experiencing again this past week, courtesy of the stalwart Israeli military, the errors of their barbaric ways.
7. JPCahill says:

   15 May 2021 at 1:33 PM

   I’m fascinated that everyone sees a description of some other place, some other time. The quotation impressed me as a literal description of us here in the poor old benighted states, hic et nunc.
8. Semper Gumby says:

   16 May 2021 at 5:20 PM

   JPCahill: “everyone sees a description of some other place, some other time.”

   First, note “that includes.” Second, the comments of JustaSinner and Thomas S, and the questions raised by OzReader regarding theocracies do not mean that is the limit of what they “see.” Third, note the distinction between the installed Death Party Regime in Washington DC and the American citizens resisting tyranny, and the distinction between the pagan Vatican and faithful Catholics. Cheers.
9. Semper Gumby says:

   16 May 2021 at 5:45 PM

   Thomas S: Briefly, the second part of your question: Integralists today tend to be easily enraged, disdainful of American citizens, badly educated about the Constitution and history, and lust after a political-religion regime of their own making and control. In other words, they’re Modernists.
10. GregB says:

    18 May 2021 at 10:06 AM

    The main problem with Integralism is that it ignores that we all suffer from Original Sin. The serpent was promising Adam and Eve complete personal autonomy. We can see how the disunion that this produced resulted in a finger pointing exercise between Adam and Eve when questioned by God. We see it also when Cain killed Abel. Adam, Eve, and Cain never showed any contrition for what they did. Cain lied to God’s face when asked about Abel. It would appear that autonomy means never having to say you’re sorry, or accepting personal accountability. We can see from Christ’s woes that Israel did not like to be given prophetic correction. St. Stephen was stoned to death while delivering prophetic correction.
    *
    The problem with crony capitalism, socialism, and communism is one of concentration of power. They produce concentrations of power that are inherently corrupting to those wielding this power. Governmental programs usually end up concentrating power in the hands of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats. Woke capitalists behave no differently.
    *
    The Founding Fathers created a constitutional order that decentralizes power and creates a system of checks and balances that establishes accountability for the wielding of this power. The rule of law and due process are a part of this system of accountability. This is very distasteful to those with a taste for absolute power, and probably explains why the Founding Fathers are held in such disdain by a world increasingly drunk with power.
    *
    Christ was offered world rule in His Temptations in the Wilderness, which He declined. He also rejected worldly kingship after the multiplication of the loaves and fishes. Historically when the Church became worldly she also became corrupt.
11. Semper Gumby says:

    19 May 2021 at 11:54 AM

    GregB: Good points.

    Here is a reply by Yoram Hazony (Israeli author and bible scholar) to an essay by Edmund Waldstein (Integralist, monk at Heiligenkreuz Abbey) at The Josias (Integralist).

    Hazony opens with:

    “Catholic friends have been urging me to read Waldstein on the common good. So I finally did.

    “I won’t comment on the theology. But as political theory this essay is naive and misguided. As a basis for political conservatism, it’s a non-starter.”

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1383480315037945867.html

    From a Fox News interview two days ago, Sohrab Ahmari (Integralist, op-ed editor NY Post):

    “…at the end of the day, they [the French and American Revolutions] all end up legalizing the murder of the unborn child. It all ends up legalizing euthanasia, it ends up with the idea that gender is a malleable thing that you can subject to your human will, and all the excesses that we talk about.”

    By Ahmari’s logic Catholicism also leads to “murder of the unborn child”: pro-abortion Death Party politicians receiving Communion from some Catholic clergy; pro-abortion politicians lauded in Leftist Catholic media outlets; Jorge Bergoglio SJ awarding a medal and title (“Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great”) to Dutch abortionist and politician Liliane Ploumen; at least one recent Vatican document now referring to pro-abortion as “pro-choice”; and numerous appearances of abortion enthusiasts over the last several years at Vatican conferences and other events.

    Ahmari might as well also state that Catholicism leads to paganism and Gaia worship given Laudato Si, Querida Amazonia and Pachamama rituals at the Vatican.

    When Integralists point out specific problems such as, say, Critical Race Theory, they are on the right track. When Integralists preach Integralism and circulate quotes by Nazi legal theorist Carl Schmitt (another quote has been making the rounds in certain Integralist quarters this past week) they are on the wrong track.

    Integralism is a typical effort by misguided amateur hotheads to relieve their frustrations and exert their will by establishing a dictatorial regime. Integralism provides aid and comfort to the anti-Christian, anti-Semitic and anti-American Left. Deo volente, those currently ensnared by the Integralist fantasy will eventually apply their talents to a productive purpose.

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