SHOPPING ONLINE? Please, come here first!
About this blog…
“This blog is like a fusion of the Baroque ‘salon’ with its well-tuned harpsichord around which polite society gathered for entertainment and edification and, on the other hand, a Wild West “saloon” with its out-of-tune piano and swinging doors, where everyone has a gun and something to say. Nevertheless, we try to point our discussions back to what it is to be Catholic in this increasingly difficult age, to love God, and how to get to heaven.” – Fr. Z
Coat of Arms by D Burkart
PLEASE donate using VENMO!
CLICK and say your daily offerings!
Do you want to show some appreciation?
Do you have a faithful Catholic website that needs competent and reliable tech support?
Fr. Z’s VOICEMAIL
Nota bene: I do not answer these numbers or this Skype address. You won't get me "live". I check for messages regularly.
WDTPRS
020 8133 4535
651-447-6265YOUR RECENT COMMENTS
InFormationDiakonia on PRAYER REQUEST: “Done Father.”
Fr-William on ASK FATHER: At Mass ‘ad orientem’ why doesn’t the priest turn around for the Preface dialogue?: “I was an Anglican priest for 20 years and now an Orthodox Priest (Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia -…”
Nathanael on Latin Liturgy Association: complimentary one-year membership for priests and seminarians: “Fr. Z, Looks like you have an http instead of mailto href. For anyone looking for it, the email is…”
CanukFrank on LENTCAzT 2021: 16 – Thursday 2nd Week of Lent: “The snare”: “Thanks, Fr. Z! Timely reflections today!”
CanukFrank on PRAYER REQUEST: “Gladly done! Also, FYI, I recite Bsp. Morlino’s Daily Prayer for Priests for you each day up here in the…”
Grumpy Beggar on POLL: Who is Pope? – UPDATES: “@Bev said:”I’m disappointed Leo XIII isn’t an option.” LOL”
Mariana2 on LENTCAzT 2021: 16 – Thursday 2nd Week of Lent: “The snare”: “Thanks, Father, most useful.”
Mariana2 on LENTCAzT 2021: 15 – Wednesday 2nd Week of Lent: “Each of is in a certain place and God either wills it or permits it.”: “Thanks, Father!”
jykam2000 on PRAYER REQUEST: “I pray for you daily, Father, using the prayer for priests by St Therese of the child Jesus, which I…”
Books which you must have.
I use this when I travel both in these USA and abroad. Very useful. Fast enough for Zoom. I connect my DMR (ham radio) through it. If you use my link, they give me more data. A GREAT back up.
Get ready…
Don’t rely on popes, bishops and priests.
“Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, and the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops act like bishops.”
- Fulton Sheen
Therefore, ACTIVATE YOUR CONFIRMATION and get to work!
Send Snail Mail to Fr. Z
Fr John Zuhlsdorf
Tridentine Mass Society of Madison
733 Struck St.
PO BOX 44603
Madison, WI 53744-4603
For email HERE
- “The modern habit of doing ceremonial things unceremoniously is no proof of humility; rather it proves the offender's inability to forget himself in the rite, and his readiness to spoil for every one else the proper pleasure of ritual.”
- C.S. Lewis
This blog has to earn its keep!
PLEASE subscribe via PayPal if it is useful.
That way I have steady income I can plan on, and you wind up regularly on my list of benefactors for whom I pray and for whom I periodically say Holy Mass.
In view of the rapidly changing challenges I now face, I would like to add more $10/month subscribers. Will you please help?
For a one time donation...
As for Latin…
"But if, in any layman who is indeed imbued with literature, ignorance of the Latin language, which we can truly call the 'catholic' language, indicates a certain sluggishness in his love toward the Church, how much more fitting it is that each and every cleric should be adequately practiced and skilled in that language!" - Pius XI
"Let us realize that this remark of Cicero (Brutus 37, 140) can be in a certain way referred to [young lay people]: 'It is not so much a matter of distinction to know Latin as it is disgraceful not to know it.'" - St. John Paul II
-
Recent Posts
- @BishopBarron on Barron. @EricSammons on Barron. Wherein @FatherZ rants.
- Latin Liturgy Association: complimentary one-year membership for priests and seminarians
- Daily Rome Shot 92
- LENTCAzT 2021: 16 – Thursday 2nd Week of Lent: “The snare”
- PRAYER REQUEST
- ASK FATHER: Mass intention register … in Latin
- Rome Shot 91
- LENTCAzT 2021: 15 – Wednesday 2nd Week of Lent: “Each of is in a certain place and God either wills it or permits it.”
- Rome Shot 90
- LENTCAzT 2021: 14 – Tuesday 2nd Week of Lent: “Humility is the gateway to salvation”
- POLL: Who is Pope? – UPDATES
- ACTION ITEM! Support for an important relic apostolate.
- PJM: “Vatican Betrays Virgin Mary for Prophet Muhammad”
- Rome Shot 89
- An emeritus here, an emeritus there. Pretty soon you’re talking about a lot of popes.
- LENTCAzT 2021: 13 – Monday 2nd Week of Lent: “Cultivate the small virtues”
- CQ CQ CQ: Ham Radio – #ZedNet reminder – Sunday 28 Feb ’21
- VIDEO PILGRIMAGE to the Holy Land: Day 8
- Fr. Hunwicke asks a hard question. Fr. Z thinks he deserves an answer.
- Your Sunday Sermon Notes – 2nd Sunday of Lent 2021
- LENTCAzT 2021: 12 – 2nd Sunday of Lent: “Be bold enough to believe that God is on your side”
- VIDEO PILGRIMAGE to the Holy Land: Day 7
- ASK FATHER: At Mass ‘ad orientem’ why doesn’t the priest turn around for the Preface dialogue?
- LENTCAzT 2021: 11 – Ember Saturday 1st Week of Lent: Why fast and abstain?
- Rome Shot 88
- VIDEO PILGRIMAGE to the Holy Land: Day 6
- STATIONS OF THE CROSS – Audio from Fr. Z
- ASK FATHER: “If a priest blesses something without following the ritual, is it really blessed? (BAD NEWS!)
- ASK FATHER: Can we Catholics observe Jewish feasts like Purim?
- LENTCAzT 2021: 10 – Ember Friday 1st Week of Lent: Patience in suffering
Let us pray…
Grant unto thy Church, we beseech Thee, O merciful God, that She, being gathered together by the Holy Ghost, may be in no wise troubled by attack from her foes. O God, who by sin art offended and by penance pacified, mercifully regard the prayers of Thy people making supplication unto Thee,and turn away the scourges of Thine anger which we deserve for our sins. Almighty and Everlasting God, in whose Hand are the power and the government of every realm: look down upon and help the Christian people that the heathen nations who trust in the fierceness of their own might may be crushed by the power of thine Arm. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, Thy Son, who liveth and reigneth with Thee in the unity of the Holy Ghost, God, world without end. R. Amen.
Yes, Fr. Z is taking ads…
Be a “Zed-Head”!
CHALLENGE COINS!
My "challenge coin" for my 25th anniversary of ordination in 2016.
Want one? I do exchanges with military and LEOs, etc.
PLEASE RESPOND. Pretty pleeeease?
Loading ...
This is really useful when travelling… and also when you aren’t and you need backup internet NOW! I use this for my DMR “Zednet” hotspot when I’m mobile. It’s a ham radio thing.
If you travel internationally, this is a super useful gizmo for your mobile internet data. I use one. If you get one through my link, I get data rewards.
Please use my links when shopping! I depend on your help.
WDTPRS POLL
Loading ...
Fr. Z’s stuff is everywhere
Help support Fr. Z’s Gospel of Life work at no cost to you. Do you need a Real Estate Agent? Calling these people is the FIRST thing you should do!
GREAT causes to support
Category Archives: PRO MULTIS
Pope Francis: “Some will awake for eternal life, others for everlasting shame”
The liturgy wars are probably going to flare up again. Not long ago the Pope changed the way that liturgical translations are approved and then, in an informal manner, suggested a few interpretive principles, none of which he has codified. … Read More
16 Comments
Tinkeritis: Screwing around with, screwing up, liturgical translations
You may have heard that there is an initiative underway to “review” or “study” vernacular translations of the texts of Mass and the norms according to which they are to be prepared as given in Liturgiam authenticam. This would be … Read More
Overdue: catechesis concerning “pro multis”
I found this important entry over at the blog of His Hermeueticalness, the great Fr. Finigan: Over three years ago, I reported on a letter of the congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, dated 17 October 2006, concerning the … Read More
Wherein Bp. Trautman runs down new translation and Fr. Z responds
In the Catholic Review of the Archdiocese of Baltimore comes this CNS story. On 22 October His Excellency Most Rev. Donald W. Trautman, Bishop of Erie, gave a talk at Catholic University of American in which he ran down the … Read More
QUAERITUR: “pro multis” and validity
From a reader: I’ve not written to you before, but I’m really looking for some help here. I am from England. I go to the Traditional Mass, which I love, at the London Oratory every Saturday and Sunday, and the … Read More
PODCAzT 66: don Camillo (part I): VM – advice on getting TLMs & “pro multis”
Our guest today is the fictional don Camillo Tarocci, (+ A.D. … ?) parish priest of "The Little World" created by Giovanni Guareschi. I begin a new project, namely, to read stories from The Little World of Don Camillo. These … Read More
Two German presbyterates refuse “pro multis”
WDTPRS has soldiered for years on the side of truth and beauty in liturgical translation. We played a not insignificant role in process whereby the accurate translation of "pro multis" in the consecration of the Precious Blood went up the … Read More
An important point about “pro multis”
When I wrote my WDTPRS articles on the Roman Canon, I had to dig deeply into the pro multis question. I did four articles on the formula of consecration of the Precious Blood. Here is an excerpt from one of … Read More
Articles on “pro multis”
In 2004 I wrote several articles in The Wanderer about the "pro multis" controversy. I have posted them for your convenience. The Roman Canon / 1st Eucharistic Prayer – 8: “Simili modo” The Roman Canon / 1st Eucharistic Prayer – … Read More
The Roman Canon / 1st Eucharistic Prayer – 8: “Simili modo”
EXCERPT:
What has the liturgy of the Mass actually had in the past? We get “pro vobis et pro multis … for you and for many” in the formula of consecration from a blending of the accounts in Mark 14:24 (translated from Greek: “this is my blood of the covenant (diatheke) shed for many (tò peri pollôn)”) and Matthew 26:28 also says “for many” together with Luke 22:20 (translated from Greek: “Likewise also the cup, after the supper, saying ‘This cup is the new covenant (diatheke) in my Blood which will be poured out for you.’” The choice to do this had theological significance. Our patristic sources, such as the writings of the 4th c Doctor of the Church St. Ambrose of Milan when describing the words of consecration in the Eucharistic liturgy, have pro multis and not pro omnibus, etc. The liturgical formulas were from Scripture.
The 4th c. Doctor of the Church St. Jerome, who translated from Greek and Hebrew texts into Latin giving us a Bible translation called the Vulgata, chose to use pro multis when translating the Greek tò peri pollôn (genitive plural of polus) in describing Jesus’ words at the Last Supper. In Greek polus means “many” or “much” or even “most” as in the majority: it does not mean “all”. In the ancient Church, no one said “for all” instead of “for many”. In the Greek Gospel accounts of the Last Supper, Jesus uses a form polus “many”. The liturgical rites of the East retained a form of polus. The rites of the Latin West have ever used pro multis. Read More
The Roman Canon / 1st Eucharistic Prayer – 10: “Simili modo” part 2
EXCERPT:
Looking at the same verses mentioned in the Catechism of the Council of Trent Jeremias, clearly having an axe to grind against someone, says of the “exclusive” use of polloÃÂ:
“This is the question whether the broad interpretation of polloàcorresponds to the original sense of Mk. 10:45; 14:24 or whether we have here a secondary and more comprehensive understanding designed to avoid the offence of a restriction of the scope of the atoning work of Jesus to ‘many’” (pp. 543-44).
The foundation for our present translation was Jeremias’ rereading of Scripture so as to avoid the offense in Catholic doctrine. Also, since Catholics know what the Church teaches, it will be okay adopt “for all”. We will have to continue with Jeremias’ argument next week. And yes, readers, the WDTPRS version of the consecration of the chalice will be coming soon. Read More
The Roman Canon / 1st Eucharistic Prayer – 10: “Simili modo” part 3
EXCERPT:
Was this obscuring compromise worth it for ecumenical reasons? I have no idea and I will leave that to my betters. However, to my mind this is an age when we need greater clarity not more nuances, a stronger sense of our Catholic faith and not something fuzzy. I do not think that ecumenical dialogue, as desirable as it can be when it is authentic, benefits from Catholics blurring their own teaching about how the fruits of the Lord Jesus’ Sacrifice will only be accepted by many even though He gave Himself up for all. By saying “for many” the Church does not teach that God cannot and does not save non-Catholics through the merits of the Lord’s Sacrifice! But, even if the number of the many who accept the fruits is beyond the reckoning of man, it is not going to be the “totality”, all of mankind, everyone who ever lived. If counting the elect is impossible for us, that mysterious number will not be beyond God who knew it before Creation. The Church taught clearly what this meant in a time of great upheaval and theological revolution. This teaching has been formally upheld in recent years. It is not in our best interests as a “Church in the modern world” to leave “for all” as the translation for pro multis. We must return to “for many” and then teach, teach, teach…and embrace in charitable dialog all who will wonder what we mean or will seek to say we are wrong. Read More
The Roman Canon / 1st Eucharistic Prayer – 12: “Simili modo” part 4
EXCERPT:
His Eminence Joseph Card. Ratzinger confronts this in God Is Near Us: The Eucharist, The Heart of Life (Ignatius Press, 2003). His Eminence makes three points (pp. 37-8, n. 10): 1) Jesus died to save all and to deny that is not in any way a Christian attitude, 2) God lovingly leaves people free to reject salvation and some do, and 3):
“The fact that in Hebrew the expression “many” would mean the same thing as “all” is not relevant to the question under consideration inasmuch as it is a question of translating, not a Hebrew text here, but a Latin text (from the Roman Liturgy), which is directly related to a Greek text (the New Testament). The institution narratives in the New Testament are by no means simply a translation (still less, a mistaken translation) of Isaiah; rather, they constitute an independent source”.
What Card. Ratzinger did here is cut loose the raft of emotion and conjecture lashed to the pier built by Lutheran scholar Joachim Jeremias, upon which ICEL justified rendering “for many” as “for all”. Remember that Jeremias and then Fr. Max Zerwick, SJ (in Notitiae in 1970) used Aramaic and Isaiah 53 arguments for their change to “for all.” Whether Jeremias was right or wrong (and I think his argument was at best tenuous) is entirely beside the point now. First, we are not Protestants who approach doctrine from a standpoint of sola Scriptura … Scripture alone. Second, we are not historical-critics when we approach the consecration of the Mass, we are believing Catholics. Third, the Missale Romanum and the Tradition and teachings of the Church have their own value, a value not to be abandoned in the face of conjecture and the vagaries of historical-critical Scripture scholarship or the concerns of non-Catholics. Fourth, the Missale Romanum is in Latin. This is a key point which every reader of WDTPRS must understand. Read More
About “pro multis”
Since another blog has decided (perhaps imprudently) to publish something on it, and since it is already commented on by participants in this blog (for good or ill), here goes. Three different well-placed sources I trust in Congregations here in … Read More