Confusion about the term “Latin Mass”

I have been going on for YEARS – nay, rather, DECADES –  now about how trads and others should NOT use the term “Latin Mass”, just by itself, to describe Mass in the Extraordinary Form, the Usus Antiquior, the Pian Rite, etc.

“Latin Mass” can refer to the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form.

I know that this is common.  I know that there is even a fine Latin Mass Society in England, which has been doing yeoman’s work for decades.

Look at this confusing article – with a couple contributors, and I suspect language problems – and you will see why in journalism and even from a prelate, we can get confusion.

I am prompted to ask, does anyone have any idea what anything means or people are saying anymore?

This is from CNA.

Vatican City, Feb 18, 2014 / 12:13 am (CNA/EWTN News).- During a recent interview, Archbishop Arthur Roche [Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship, former head of ICEL, former Bishop of Leeds] spoke on the significance of the Traditional Latin Mass, [did he?] explaining that the Mass nourishes us, and that the special rite brings us together in a unique way.

“It’s a common language, [Latin… right? I’ll bet the question had to do with “Latin Mass”… and he heard “Mass in Latin” when the question was about the TLM… keep reading…] as it were, that brings us together, that holds us together,” the archbishop noted during a Feb. 13 interview with CNA, adding that “the Latin Mass…is a beautiful expression of the worship of God.” [Indeed.]

Archbishop Arthur Roche is the Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship, and is helping to organize a special conference commemorating the 50th anniversary of Pope Paul VI’s apostolic constitution “Sacrosanctum Concilium.” [Just the other day, CNS put out a snarky tweet that the conference wasn’t going to be about the Extraordinary Form.]

[…]

Speaking of the Traditional Latin Mass, [oh?] the archbishop highlighted that it “will always be a part of the Roman rite” because it maintains “the language in which the Roman rite is written – whether it be the ordinary or indeed the extraordinary form.” [I am pretty sure he was talking about Mass in the Latin language, not the TLM.]

“It is the way in which the Church expresses itself,” he explained, observing how there has been an increase in use of Gregorian chant during Mass, “especially at international events.”

Drawing attention to the special international reach of the city of Rome, Archbishop Roche went on to say that “people from throughout the world, from every continent and from the different hemispheres, come together to share Mass and are joined together in that common expression of the singing of the Latin part of the Mass.” [He is talking about the Latin, not the Form.]

Turning his attention to Pope Francis take on the rite, the archbishop explained that “the Pope hasn’t expressed anything about the extraordinary form nor in fact about the ordinary form either.” [Jesuits are not, in general, much interested in liturgy.]

[…]

Read the rest there.

People, reconsider your use of “Latin Mass” to describe the older, traditional form.  The Novus Ordo is – according to the will of the Council Fathers – to be in Latin as well.  Mass celebrated in Latin in the Novus Ordo is “Latin Mass”.  Let’s be clear.  I think this dodgy term produced a confused article.

Also, the differences between the two Forms (or “Rites, as I think) are even more manifest when both Forms are in Latin, because – when side by side – you see how the changes to the texts reveal the change in the theology.

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, The Drill | Tagged , , , ,
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URGENT: Problems posting comments

I have received a few emails from readers who have been getting a message about a “white list” when trying to comment here.

I will try to get to the bottom of this.

UPDATE:

A reader send a screen shot of what they see.  I advise you NOT to use this.

UPDATE:

There may be registration problems also.

In short… something is wrong.  I am going to need some support.

UPDATE:

I am trying to write a talk for a conference… GRRRR.   This rubbish always happens when I am against a wall.  That’s Zuhlsdorf’s Law.

BUT… I see that the anti-spam plugin, without which I can’t run this place, thinks that a lot of you have bad IP addresses… that you are all spammers.

This is sort of like dealing with HAL 9000.  I am waiting for it to lock me out of the ship and then having to pull its brains out on by one (e.g., disabling features of the plugin until the problem goes away).

UPDATE:

I had to remove the plugin that stopped a lot of spammers from attacking the registration form.  I will now be under siege by slime.

Also, a priest reader sent this screenshot, which suggests a problem I have never seen.

I need the help of a real WordPress expert.

Posted in SESSIUNCULA | Tagged
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POLLS: What Eucharistic Prayer do you usually hear?

In view of this post over at Liturgical Notes, here are a  couple Fr Z POLLS.

At Ordinary Form Mass on Sundays and holy days...

View Results

At Ordinary Form Mass on Sundays and holy days

View Results

 

Posted in Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, POLLS | Tagged ,
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Pope Francis’ remarks about Extraordinary Form and people who want it

Pope Francis allegedly made some negative comments about the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite and those who desire it.

My comments, below.

From Creative Minority Report:

Pope Francis has made what can only be called disparaging comments about the Traditional Latin Mass and its adherents.

Rorate Caeli reports that the Pope made comments to a Czech Bishop during his ad limina visit those who value and esteem the extraordinary form of the liturgy are merely caught up in a momentary fashion and thus as Pope he does not need to pay attention to them. Yup.

[Abp. Jan Graubner speaks:] When we were discussing those who are fond of the ancient liturgy and wish to return to it, it was evident that the Pope speaks with great affection, attention, and sensitivity for all in order not to hurt anyone. However, he made a quite strong statement when he said that he understands when the old generation returns to what it experienced, but that he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it. “When I search more thoroughly – the Pope said – I find that it is rather a kind of fashion [in Czech: ‘móda’, Italian ‘moda’]. [Actually, a better rendering of “moda” here is “fad”.] And if it is a fashion [fad], therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion. But I consider greatly important to go deep into things, because if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us.” [Go deep.   What does that mean?]

Besides being completely wrong, that the Pope is so disrespectful of the reasonable desires of so many good and faithful Catholics it is staggering in its coarseness and dismissiveness.

Not to mention, such an attitude is diametrically opposed to the attitudes and pronouncement of his Holiness Pope Benedict XVI.

I know that I have probably misinterpreted our humble Pope’s meaning and that the problem is me. For sure, the Pope seems to think that I am the problem. Please forgive me, I only speak Promethean. [ROFL!]

I wasn’t going to write on this, but my email box is filling up.

First, this is the third hand report of something that the Pope might have said.

There is an ad limina audience.  The Czech prelate says he chatted with the Pope for a bit.  Fine.  The Czech talks to Vatican Radio and recounts this stuff.  Maybe he does so accurately, maybe he doesn’t.  Vatican Radio then ineptly renders it and puts it around.

Bottom line: don’t worry about third hand accounts of informal, off-the-cuff remarks about the TLM.   If the Pope wants to abrogate Summorum Pontificum, he’ll do it in the proper, juridical way.

And does it surprise anyone that a Jesuit doesn’t quite get the whole traditional liturgy thing?

The Pope’s comments change nothing.

Even if we accept that Francis said these things, even if we accept that maybe Francis doesn’t care about the TLM or doesn’t get people who want it, who cares?  The provisions of Summorum Pontificum stand.

Therefore,…

Do not waiver.

Do not slow down.

Do not be downhearted.

Do not relent.

Do not budge.

Do not stop working.

We need more and more celebrations of the older form of Holy Mass in more and more places by more and more priests.

Keep at it.  Get those resources to priests.  Pay any price, offer any help, go the extra mile.

We shall not give up any ground.

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, Be The Maquis, SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM, The future and our choices | Tagged ,
56 Comments

Your Sunday Sermon Notes

Was there a good point you heard during your Sunday Mass sermon?  Let us know!

Posted in SESSIUNCULA |
12 Comments

Girl Scouts threaten LifeNews which reported connection to Planned Parenthood

On the face of it, being threatened by Girl Scouts does sound like much.  But, think it through: they can be mean!

This makes you want to toss your cookies, from LifeNews:

Girl Scouts USA Threatens LifeNews After Reporting Its Link to Planned Parenthood

During the last two weeks, LifeNews has brought international attention to the link between the Girl Scouts and the Planned Parenthood abortion business and the national boycott of Girl Scouts cookies sponsored by pro-life groups.

The pro-life movement has been concerned for a number of years about the ties between the Girl Scouts and the Planned Parenthood abortion business. Although the Girl Scout organization maintains that it takes “no position” on the issue of abortion, parents, churches, and pro-life activists have long complained of the pro-abortion slant of the Girl Scouts’ resources, role models, and affiliations.

After a series of articles on the boycott and the Girl Scouts-Planned Parenthood link, that featured the Girl Scouts logo to identify the organization, Brian Crawford, an executive with Girl Scouts USA, wrote LifeNews a scathing letter attempting to intimidate us into stopping our reporting on their link and to no longer use their logo or image to identify them as we bring attention to their support for the nation’s biggest abortion business.

In his letter Crawford again denied any connection to Planned Parenthood and he complained about LifeNews.com “articles that outline alleged ties to Planned Parenthood,” saying “GSUSA has an obligation to protect the Girl Scout name.”

“Girl Scouts of the USA does not have a partnership or any relationship with Planned Parenthood and does not plan to initiate one,” he claimed.

The letter “demands” that LifeNews no longer identify the Girl Scouts as we report on its link to the abortion company that does approximately one-third of the abortions in the United States. The GSUSA letter lists a date by which LifeNews must guarantee the Girl Scouts it “will comply with our demand.”

However, the links between the Girl Scouts and Planned Parenthood are longstanding, with a Girl Scouts CEO and individual troops admitting as much.

Fresh on the heels of Girl Scouts USA (GSUSA) sharing a recommendation for pro-abortion Texas gubernatorial candidate Wendy Davis as a 2013 Woman of the Year via their official Twitter account, the organization suggested pro-abortion HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius as a woman “with courage, confidence, and character.”

Meanwhile, the new national spokeswoman for the Girl Scouts, Kelly Parisi, is the former spokeswoman for a pro-abortion organization — one founded by Gloria Steinem.

[…]

Read the rest over there.

 

Posted in Emanations from Penumbras, Liberals, The Coming Storm, The Drill, The future and our choices | Tagged , , , ,
4 Comments

Pope Francis, Argentinian

I would not be in the least surprised were Pope Francis to abdicate when he turns 80.  As a matter of fact, I suspect he will.

On that, I saw at Rorate something from La Nación.

The Pope renewed his civil, Argentinian identity documents… even though he is a head of state.  He obviously has a Vatican City State Passport.  Apparently the Pope wants to travel on his Argentinian passport and/or identity card.  Thus, he jumped through the loops to get them.  Well, actually, he told someone else to jump through the loops to get them.

Benedict XVI continued to be a German citizen after his election.  I suspect he still has dual citizenship, German/Vatican.  Cardinals who live in Rome are also given Vatican citizenship.

I suspect that when the Pope shows up, customs agents don’t check his passport.  So, what difference does it make?  What is this all about?  I have no idea.  I ask myself: were I elected Pope, would I renew my US Passport?  Yes, I think I would.  Would I resign the papacy? No, I don’t think I would.  But, in the realm of hypotheticals, this just about tops the list.  Heck, I won’t even make monsignor, the way things are going!

Cheer up, Holy Father! Don't look like a 'sour puss!"

 

Posted in Francis, Lighter fare | Tagged ,
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A note on the Olympic’s most important sport

I object to NBC.  And I object to certain aspects of their coverage of the Olympics.  I have also been on the road.  And so I haven’t been able to watch much of the only sport at the Olympics that really counts…

… CURLING.

Today, however, I found a stream that let’s me watch British coverage online.  And so I am beginning, after a long drought, to slake my Curling coverage thirst.

UPDATE:

COOL HATS

The Cube, I think its called.

Posted in Just Too Cool | Tagged ,
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Health benefits of marriage v. cohabitation

We all know… or should know… that we cannot lie to God.

Apparently we can’t lie to ourselves either.  God made us that way.

A priest friend in the great state of Texas sent this to me from Live Science:

Marriage is linked with numerous health benefits that simply cohabiting doesn’t seem to provide. Now, research suggests the reason why — the brain links “just” living together with a lack of commitment and can’t relax.

The new study used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to examine the brains of cohabitating and married heterosexual couples, as well as same-sex couples, half of whom considered themselves married despite lacking legal recognition. [I’ll hold my fire on that… keep reading.] The findings revealed that parts of the brain are less reactive to stress when somene is with a person they consider themselves married to.
“We really pay close attention to when it’s safe to let down our guard and to outsource our stress response to our social networks,” said study researcher Jim Coan, a psychologist at the University of Virginia. [I Don’t: 5 Myths About Marriage]
The findings were unexpected, Coan added: “I’m sort of freaking myself out with this research.

[…]

What a shock!

(That pun will be funnier once you read the whole thing.)

Posted in Just Too Cool, One Man & One Woman, Our Catholic Identity, The Drill | Tagged ,
6 Comments

My View For Awhile Again

Farewell Detroit.

Having given talks at the DIA for Call To Holiness, and having raised up the Sacrifice in a Missa Cantata for Septuagesima, this is my view for now after yet another flight delay on this multicity trip

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I had more time for a splendid brunch because of the delay, however. Silver clouds and linings, right?

This it is how it started…

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This is how it ended…

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You don’t get to see the part in between. That’s when the Inspector arrived.

Now it’s Kindle (a book sent by a reader, thanks), a flight, and then back to the Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue for a couple days before I do it all again.

Posted in On the road, What Fr. Z is up to | Tagged ,
3 Comments