QUAERITUR: Is the SSPX just being stubborn?

From a reader:

Why is the SSPX still not in union with Rome? Especially with groups
like the FFSP what problem do they still have with us? They could
unite with Rome, and still basically continue as usual. Am I missing
something big? Are they just being stubborn?

Well.. yes.  They are being stubborn!

It is of the essence of being traditional and being a Christian to be stubborn, by the way.  We have some other, fancy words for “stubborn” when speaking about fidelity to doctrine and our identity, but “stubborn” will do for the sake of this entry.

StubbornnessChristians are stubborn in the face of all sorts of things the world has to offer.  And the SSPX would say they are being stubborn about those very same things, for they fear, or think, or have the suspicion that some of those worldly things have been embraced by the Church in a way that is contrary to her God-given mission.

There are various concrete issues over which members of the SSPX and formally manifest members of the Catholic Church will dispute.  And I use that distinction of “manifest” in there because I believe SSPXers are members of the Church who are to one degree or another either separate from formal unity with the Church’s duly appointed shepherds (including the Bishop of Rome) or who are progressively getting closer or farther from that unity.  But that is another discussion.

There are various concrete issues they will want to discuss.  Some of which could be resolved with the stroke or two of a papal pen (such as the lifting of the excommunications incurred by Archbp. Lefevbre and the SSPX bishops in 1988 or the expansion of the use of the Roman Rite as it was in 1962).  Other issues are thornier and will take hard work and humility to resolve.

For the sake of putting it in a nutshell, the people in the SSPX think or wonder (sometimes very strongly and out loud) or simply assert that something bad happened during the Second Vatican Council.  The documents produced by that Council – along with everything that followed from those documents – were tainted which modernism, or immanentism.   To make that even more concise, they think that the spirit of and even the letter of the documents of the Council may be more man-centered than God-centered or Christ-centered, anthropocentric rather than Christocentric.

They are stubborn about having it out with authorities in Rome over a whole raft of questions that eventually go back to whether or not the documents of the Second Vatican Council caved into modernity, lack a focus on God, and, thereby, stray from a proper understanding of Tradition.  The SSPX wants to work out theological problems before there can be other questions about formal unity within the structure of the Church.  They are being stubborn about that.

In trying to work things out with the SSPX, Rome has undertaken some theological discussions which will have to touch on the essential questions behind the other issues, such as that of “religious liberty” and to what extent the Council’s document on religious liberty may have changed the Church’s teaching.

In some ways the stubbornness of the SSPX is laudable.  It is laudable if they are really interested in getting at the truth and not just in getting their way, as if they alone are arbiters of what is Catholic.    But there are ways in which their stubbornness it is not laudable.  Otherwise their priests and bishops would not be suspended from acting as priests and bishops and there would not be discussions with the view of their reconciliation. The separation is stretching out and there is an increasing danger of a real schism.

When you can’t hear Peter say you are in unity with him, and when that is a question on the table, then you may be in serious trouble.  Be stubborn all you want, but at the end of the day Christ entrusted his Church to Peter and Peter’s successors.  We can’t both remain Catholic and remain separated from Peter for a long time.

That said, the SSPX has hammered away at some theological questions that really do deserve attention and answers!  In the interest of the truth, one way or another, we need to have clarity about some aspects of the Council’s documents which over the years have proven to be troubling and controversial.

My view is that when it comes to most of the theological questions that the SSPX wants to raise about the Council, since the Council never intended from the beginning to issue any new dogmatic statements, and since some of the things the Council dealt with (such as religious liberty) are really hard questions about which people of good will can disagree, there are very few reasons why some structure could not be provided for them within the Church.  After all, the followers of Fr. Feeney, who held to a very strict interpretation of the difficult to understand extra ecclesiam nulla salus, were reconciled without having to recant their positions.  If they, why not the SSPX?

The question that looms, however, is this:

Have they gone their own way for so long that they simply don’t want to obey? Are they actually willing to submit to the Vicar of Christ?  Or will they be stubborn?

On the side of the Church, of course, there must be a genuine openness to receive the questions the SSPX will want to raise and then work through them to find answers.

Popes, by the way, are the most stubborn Christians of all.  It is their special role in the Church to say “No.”, all the time.  Thanks be to God.  Don’t be surprised when you propose something against what he wants to happen if he says “No.”.

Moreover, consider when the SSPX is trying to defend over an opposed to what dissidents in the Church are trying to accomplish… rather… trying to tear apart.

Dissidents, and you can make your own list, will tear at the Church’s cult, code and creed very often with impunity in schools, parishes and in dioceses.  Meanwhile, people who want nothing more than to uphold the tradition we have received from our forebears regarding cult, code and creed are often identified by duly appointed pastors as being the dangerous ones, they who must be repressed, they who are making trouble.  Sometimes they bring this on themselves by being jerks, but that is an issue for a different entry.

Never mind that while in parishes far and wide there is crazy preaching from pulpits, poor catechism, and wacky liturgy, it is the SSPXers or other traditionalists within the Church who are regarded with suspicion even though they stick to the liturgical books and virtually never depart from what you could find in the Roman Catechism, the Baltimore Catechism or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

In the final analysis liberals and dissidents will always give ecclesiastical authorities far more headaches through their heterodoxy and disobedience. They, however, get and keep parishes and schools and top notch positions while the more traditionally-minded occasionally get a handful of dirt.

I have in mind, for example, a diocese in which the more traditional Catholics and their priests would quite literally go to the wall to back the bishop in good initiatives for which he is taking heat, but liberal priests actually attack him in public, even in newspapers.  One of these days, bishops are going to figure this out and start going to the wall for the faithful in their flocks.

That will be a grand day indeed, on which I shall sing Non nobis.

Thing are going to change.  It is a matter of demographics and the inexorable grace of God.

Benedict XVI is. furthermore, the Pope of Christian Unity.

Posted in ASK FATHER Question Box, New Evangelization, Our Catholic Identity, Pope of Christian Unity, The future and our choices | Tagged ,
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A really old thing!

For the first time in a while I found something useful on the site of the National Catholic Fishwrap!

Headline:  Oldest and most distant object in the universe discovered

No, this isn’t about Richard McBrien or even Joan Chittister.

Fishwrap is referring to a story in The Daily Mail about how astronomers using a big telescope have spotted a galaxy so far away that it has taken 13.1 billion years for its light to reach us.  That means that we are now seeing the galaxy as it was 13.1 billion years ago, or when it was only 600 million years old.

After reading about that galaxy far far away…. I also learned about a really cool green comet!

Hmmm… that’s portentous.

I don’t know what effect this will have on The Vortex.

I must have some …

[CUE MUSIC]

.Mystic Monk… Mystic Monk coffee and ponder this portentous news.

When you’ve had a hard day trying to figure out why people still pay attention to really old liberals, … and when you figure out you’ve just fallen into the trap of caring what they think and could kick yourself for driving traffic to their site … have a nice piping hot mug of Mystic Monk Coffee.

That’s right!  With Mystic Monk Coffee, you’ll soon get rid of that nasty metallic taste left after reading that paper and replace it with sumptuous java goodness provided by… you know it… real live monks!

Refresh your supply now!

Mystic Monk Coffee.

It’s swell!

Posted in Just Too Cool | Tagged
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Today is the vigil!

This is the vigil of the Feast of Sts. Nunilo and Alodia, martyrs!

Are you getting ready to have some paella?  Perhaps Cardinal Mendoza brandy?

Posted in Lighter fare, Saints: Stories & Symbols | Tagged
16 Comments

Getting from Washington DC to Rome

I noticed that the annual fall plenary session of the USCCB will be held 15-18 November.

But there will be consistory in Rome immediately thereafter. The Cardinals are supposed to be present, at least. It is a consistory after all.

Doesn’t leave them a lot of time to get from Washington D.C. to Rome and changed into the special clothes.

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes | Tagged
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NPR fired Juan Williams

National Public (Liberal) Radio has fired commentator and columnist Juan Williams for remarks he made about Muslims.

Part of the story from NPR:

NPR News has terminated the contract of longtime news analyst Juan Williams after remarks he made on the Fox News Channel about Muslims.

Williams appeared Monday on The O’Reilly Factor, and host Bill O’Reilly asked him to comment on the idea that the U.S. is facing a dilemma with Muslims. [It is, isn’t it?]

O’Reilly has been looking for support for his own remarks on a recent episode of ABC’s The View in which he directly blamed Muslims for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Co-hosts Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg walked off the set in the middle of his appearance. [Thereby raising the quality of the show exponentially.]

Williams responded: “Look, Bill, I’m not a bigot. You know the kind of books I’ve written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”

[…]

Is that out of line?   It certainly isn’t out of step with what a lot of normal people think.  Is that the problem?  NPR is out of step with what normal people think?

Mennonites, by the way, also dress in distinctive garb because of religious tenets.  So far Mennonites haven’t done much to make us wonder if they are going to try to blow up the airplane.  I could say the same about Hasidim and Buddhist monks, whom I have also seen on airplanes.  Since it is a little harder to identify members of the sect called the LCWR – unless you can spot their lapel pin and get a look at their shoes – we probably won’t worry about them being on our airplanes.

Posted in Throwing a Nutty | Tagged ,
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Archbp. Nienstedt on being Catholic

USAToday has an article on Archbp. John Nienstedt of St. Paul and Minneapolis:

Minn. archbishop: No ‘lukewarm’ Catholics welcome

Archbp. NienstedtST. PAUL (AP) — The Catholic archbishop for the Twin Cities defended his right Monday to speak to fellow Catholics on social issues, and said a shrinking Roman Catholic church is no reason to consider a more liberal stance. [Which should apply also to issues that don’t directly concern morals.]

Archbishop John Nienstedt sat down with The Associated Press after a weekend in which the St. Paul-Minneapolis Archdiocese announced it would close 21 churches to reflect churchgoers’ move from urban areas to suburbia, declines in regular church attendance and an expectation of fewer new priests to replace those who retire or die.

The archbishop, who recently angered some of the area’s 800,000 Catholics with the mailing of an anti-gay marriage DVD, [Does this reveal a bias in reporting?  It could have been written “encouraged some of the area’s Catholics”.] said he believes spiritual leaders have a duty to talk to their flock about issues they see as important — even if some of those views might be unpopular with prospective churchgoers.

We’re part and parcel of the culture, [though not in an unqualified way] so it’s important for us to be involved with those discussions and have our say,” [Do I hear an “Amen!”?  This is what WDTPRS has been talking about incessantly.  There are powerful forces trying to drive the Church with her voice out of the public square.  We must not surrender that ground.  We have a right to be heard.] Nienstedt said. He said Jesus Christ directed his followers to “either be hot or cold, but if you’re lukewarm, I don’t want that. So we want people who live their faith.”

Nienstedt called the reorganization, which also will involve dozens more churches sharing priests and some staff and resources, “a reconfiguring of resources to meet our needs and mission.” But he said Catholics need not fear a smaller church, and the threat of one is not a reason to abandon core tenets.

“I believe that it’s important that if you’re going to be Catholic, that you have to be 100% Catholic,” [Do I hear an “Amen!”?] Nienstedt said. “That you stand by the church, you believe what the church believes and you pass that on to your sons and daughters and your grandsons and granddaughters.”

The Rev. Mike Tegeder, lead pastor at St. Edward Catholic Church in Bloomington and a frequent critic of the archbishop, said he was puzzled [I am sure he would be puzzled.  When it comes to the Faith it is hard to understand things you don’t believe.  Nisi credideritis non intelligetis.] by the term “100 percent Catholic.” [Great witness, Tegeder.]

“The church has always gotten into trouble when it seeks to separate the pure from the impure,” said Tegeder, whose suburban congregation emerged unscathed [pity] from the reorganization plans. “Jesus cautions us to be careful in weeding and judging.”

Tegeder and some other priests have argued the Catholic Church could quickly resolve its problem with declining numbers of priests if it allowed married clergy. But “I personally don’t see that happening,” Nienstedt said.

One church on the list of those to be closed and merged with several nearby churches is St. Clement, in Minneapolis. its pastor, the Rev. Earl Simonson, said he’s not sure if the building will actually shut down or still be used for some services, though under the archdiocese’s approach it will at minimum lose its name. [Ummm…. perhaps the parish will be suppressed, but a church cannot lose the name it was consecrated with unless approval is obtained from the Congregation for Divine Worship.]

“We just wait for the great archbishop to tell us what we’re doing,” Simonson said. “We’re mere flunkies.” [That’s not bitter.]

Still, Simonson did not take issue with Nienstedt’s conviction that smaller isn’t necessarily less desirable for the Catholic Church.

“That’s what I was taught in seminary,” Simonson said. “If you don’t want to be Catholic, then get out. The archbishop is right about that. Human nature being what it is, you’ll always have some who think they can be half in and half out.”

It must be a horrible decision to close parishes.   It leads one to question whether or not it is time to think outside the box.

Posted in New Evangelization, Our Catholic Identity, The Drill, The future and our choices |
18 Comments

QUAERITUR: parent won’t attend wedding without SSPX priest

From a reader:

My Fiancée’s family is SSPX. Since coming to college she has realized the error in their beliefs, so she is no longer SSPX.

We are planning on getting married next november We would absolutely love to get married with a latin mass but her dad will not come to a mass said by anyone not SSPX. Needless to say we would not have an SSPX priest say our mass.

So, our choices are: get married with only a ceremony, her dad would attend this even when said by a roman catholic priest, or have a mass that some of her family would not attend.

First, I notice that you do not mention either your or her parish priest, the pastor of the parishes or parish you attend now.  If she is no longer attending a chapel of the SSPX, then she must be going to some parish or otherwise approved chapel.  It may be possible, because of the dynamics of her family that you could have the old Mass for the nuptial Mass.  But you have to get involved with the parish priest.  In fact, you have to get involved with the parish priest anyway.

Second, while it is nice to have everyone be happy with everything, that is not why people get married.  You get married because you think it is your vocation and God’s will.  It is not her father’s vocation.

Third, if there is a possibility of a wedding ceremony without a Mass, then perhaps that is the best way to go if you cannot find a priest willing to say the older Mass for you for your wedding.  It may be that the SSPX priest would be willing to attend.

I am sorry that you must go through this sort of thing.  However, you have chosen well to pursue marriage within the bounds, formally, of the Catholic Church.  For a wedding to be licit and valid, the the proper form for marriage must be observed.  Part of the proper form for marriage is having a witness recognized by the Church.  SSPX priests do not have the permission of the Church to witness marriages.  Your local parish priest does, however.

I hope this works out peacefully.

Posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, ASK FATHER Question Box, Our Catholic Identity |
32 Comments

POLL ALERT: WSJ on clerical celibacy and abuse of children

For your opportune knowledge, the Wall Street Journal is running an online poll today.

At the time of this writing these are the results:

UPDATE 1903 GMT:

Posted in Biased Media Coverage, Clerical Sexual Abuse, POLLS | Tagged ,
14 Comments

Don’t like the new translation? You have an option!

The discontents who are whining about the new translation as being deficient or flawed or ugly or mean or vulgar or awkward always have an option.

Ignore the new translation and just use Latin.

Latin can protect you from the affliction of vulgarity.

The Laudator has an interesting entry on this:

Nicolás Gómez Dávila (1913-1994), Escolios a un Texto Implícito: Selección (Bogotá: Villegas Editores, 2001), p. 334 (tr. by Stephen at Don Colacho’s Aphorisms):

The classical languages have educational value because they are safe from the vulgarity with which modern life corrupts the languages that are in use.

Las lenguas clásicas tienen valor educativo porque están a salvo de la vulgaridad con que la vida moderna corrompe las lenguas en uso.

Marc Antoine Muret (1526-1585), Orationes, vol. 2, no. 22, included in A. Springhetti, Selecta Latinitatis Scripta (saec. xv-xx) (Rome, 1951):

Therefore those languages that depend on the whim of the ignorant multitude die each day, and are born each day. But those languages that the usage of learned men has rescued from the slavery of the crowd not only are alive, but have in a certain way achieved immortality and immutability.

Illae igitur linguae quotidie moriuntur, quotidie nascuntur, quae pendent ex libidine imperitae multitudinis: quas autem ex populi servitute eruditorum usus vindicavit, illae non vivunt tantum, sed immortalitatem quodammodo et immutabilitatem adeptae sunt.

Posted in Liturgy Science Theatre 3000 |
2 Comments

Something in the Air, I fear

Hmmmm

New Macbook Air.

Posted in Just Too Cool |
11 Comments