Catholic univ. students defy Church, Archbp. Nienstedt over homosexuality

Skirmishers are circling in the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis.  At issue is the legalization of unnatural, same-sex “marriage”.

Archbp. Nienstedt undertook with the help of lay people to send to Catholics in Minnesota 400K DVDs.  The Archbishop is exercising his office as a successor of the Apostles, a pastor in the Catholic Church, to pass on and interpret the rule of Faith.

Another protest was launched against Archbp. Nienstedt by college students at St. John’s University in Collegeville, Minnesota.  No bastion of Catholic orthodoxy, there.

The STrib of Minneapolis and St,. Paul reports.

About 25 college students and community members at St. John’s Abbey in Collegeville, Minn., were denied communion by Twin Cities Roman Catholic Archbishop John C. Nienstedt because they were displaying rainbow buttons and sashes in protest of the church’s stand on gay relationships[The students turned the moment of Holy Communion into a protest against not merely the particular minister of Communion – Archbp. Nienstedt – but against the Church’s teaching.  The story says “stand”, using political terms.  The Church has a teaching.   If you do not accept the Church’s teaching about the immorality of homosexual acts… if you do not accept the Church’s teaching that marriage is only between one man and one woman… then you have no business receiving Holy Communion.   When you approach the the minister of Communion (not just anyone, but the Metropolitan Archbishop) openly displaying a symbol that manifestly shows that you are protesting the Church’s teaching, you are openly showing that you should not be receiving Communion.  Therefore, the minister of Communion, the Archbishop was obliged not to give them Communion.  If Communion should not be received, and that is clear, then Communion should not be given.  Students knew that.  They did this to provoke the controversy.]

The conflict between the archbishop and the group, mostly students from the Catholic St. John’s University and the College of St. Benedict, [Women’s college associated with St. John’s] occurred during evening mass Sept. 26.

It came amid news that the state’s bishops were mailing 400,000 DVDs to Minnesota Catholics, spelling out church teachings on gay marriage.

The St. John’s action was coordinated by students, including members of People Representing the Sexual Minority (PRiSM), which represents gay and lesbian students and their friends and allies. That Sunday, according to those at the mass, about two dozen worshipers positioned themselves to receive communion from Nienstedt, who was saying his first student mass at the abbey. Some reached for [the arrogant little prigs] the communion wafer but were denied it. Rather, the archbishop raised his hand in blessing.

[…]

St. Benedict theology junior Elizabeth Gleich, PRiSM vice president, said, “We were making a statement during the eucharist, [Communion is not the time to make statements or demonstrations other than humility and “Amen.”] and many have disagreed with that. But when we have no other way of dialoguing with our church, no other way of telling him how we feel, how else to do it than in liturgy?” [I don’t believe they tried to “dialogue”, for one thing.  And then, to what purpose?  If they are “dialoguing” for the sake of understanding and accepting a hard teaching – to which they owe assent, by the way, as Catholics – fine!  I cannot imagine that Archbp. Nienstedt or his reps would not have “dialogued”!  That question should be put to the spokesman, “If they had come in this spirit, would the Archbishop have “dialogued”?  But, no.  Let’s not pretend that they were really interested.  They want to protest.]
She said their complaint is with church hierarchy, not with the colleges. [This shows you how dishonest they were.  They knew they were instrumentalizing the Lord in the Eucharist, and the whole community of Faith, for their own agenda.]

Another student, senior Andrew Grausam, said he sat behind the group. “It was sad to see the mass politicized like that,” Grausam said. “And even though I wholeheartedly disagree with the archbishop on this issue, I was hurt to see my worship become a place of demonstration.”

The Human Rights Campaign (HRC), which describes itself as the nation’s largest civil rights organization on behalf of gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people, expressed outrage at Nienstedt’s actions. [Imagine my shock.]

“Jesus didn’t play politics with communion,”  [Does that sound in any way intelligent to you?] Harry Knox, the HRC’s religion and faith program director, said Tuesday in a statement. “He offered his body and blood for everyone.”  [And sooooo….?]

In the Twin Cities area, at least two efforts have gathered hundreds of DVDs from Catholics opposed to its message. Minneapolis artist Lucinda Naylor estimated Tuesday that she’d gathered about 600. A group called Return the DVD has received about 1,000 in its Burnsville post office box, and also has garnered about $5,000 in donations to help the poor, said organizer Bob Radecki.

The Catholic Spirit has an excellent piece about this incident.  Take a look.

Then …. contrast that to the editorial in US Catholic, … that should be catholic.

Wednesday, October 6, 2010
By Bryan Cones

Best to wear black in the communion line, or at least keep your color pallette neutral. [Starts with a whine…] Archbishop John Nienstedt of the Twin Cities denied about 25 students of St. John’s University in Collegeville and the nearby St. Benedict’s College communion at a Mass at St. John’s Abbey for wearing rainbow buttons. The students were protesting Nienstedt’s DVD campaign promoting the church’s teaching on marriage (specifically same-sex marriage), according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. [No.  they were protesting the Church’s teaching and they were protesting a man who made that teaching clear in the face of their immoral agenda.  And they chose to do this at the time of Holy Communion.  That’s what happened.]

Archdiocesan spokesman Dennis McGrath on the action: “For years you cannot receive communion if you wear the rainbow sash, because it’s a political statement, a sign of protest. Going to the communion rail is the most sacred part of our faith, the eucharist. We don’t allow anybody to make political statements or any kind of protest.”

First off, who goes to a communion rail anymore. There isn’t one at St. John’s. But I digress. [Does he think that’s clever?] People, especially clergy, politicize the liturgy all the time in sermons and petitiions. And as a “protest,” this one was pretty mild: No yelling, sign-waving, chanting. Just participation in the liturgy while whering a rainbow button. [No.  This wasn’t just “participation”.  They weren’t just “there” and praying.  They went to Communion wearing symbols demonstrating that they do not accept the Church’s teaching.  And one of them tried to take Communion.]

I think one of the :”protesters” had a good point: “We were making a statement during the eucharist, and many have disagreed with that. [Indeed.  She’s getting her money’s worth out of that education!] But when we have no other way of dialoguing with our church, no other way of telling him how we feel, how else to do it than in liturgy?” asked St. Benedict student Elizabeth Gleich–though I’m sure the archbishop would not entertain any disagreement on the matter. [So… he’s sure, and I am sure about the opposite.  Which one of us is right, I wonder?]

[Now watch the writer go to the zoo…] I propose a thought experiment: Suppose the archbishop gave these baptized people what belongs to them by reason of their baptism [No.  Holy Communion doesn’t “belong” to you by reason of baptism alone.  There is – and it is hard to imagine why we should have to clarify this to someone writing for a Catholic publication –  also the matter of accepting what the Church teaches, being in communion with the Church and with her duly appointed pastors.] (communion), even if they were wearing a button. [Which is an admission that that button was more than just a button.  You know… I have a button on my coat right now: “Oremus pro Pontifice!”, in support of prayer for Pope Benedict.  I suspect that the Archbishop would have given me Communion anyway.  The button meant something.] Suppose further that they received it happily and went back to their seats. Suppose the bishop even invited them to chat after Mass. Would anyone believe that the archbishop had changed his mind? I doubt it. [Have you slid into the steel jaws of his logic yet?] In fact I doubt there would even be a news story about it to link to, at least not one that makes the archbishop look , as he most certainly does in this portrayal. He may have  even appeared generous, open, loving, even though he worred that these members of his flock had it wrong. Whatever happened to a pastoral response?  [I see. The Archbishop looked petty.  It wasn’t that the student’s behaved like petulant brats who think they know better than the Church when it comes to faith and morals and then reveal their immaturity by making an issue of it at Communion.  The image that comes to mind is that of a father standing over his child saying “No.” while the brats thrashes on the ground after having the gun taken away.   The Archbishop’s denial of Holy Communion helped these children not compound their sin and the scandal they were causing by adding to it a sacrilegious Communion, which Paul describes as having pretty serious consequences.  As for that “pastoral” response, I submit that the writer has not the slightest idea what “pastoral” really means.  Clue: most of the time it means saying “NO.”]

[And not the writer will give us a lesson…] But unless the law has changed–and it hasn’t–there is no justification for withholding communion from a member of the body of Christ unless that person is a notorious public sinner whose communion would somehow cause grave scandal in the church. [When I was still a Lutheran, I was validly baptized.  I was a member of Christ’s Body because of that baptism.  I was not, however, Catholic.  I did not accept the Catholic Church’s teachings.  I did not obey her laws.  I did not view the Church’s shepherds as my shepherds.  When I became a Catholic, I publicly said I would do those things and I was admitted to Communion.  Furthermore, what those students did caused grave scandal.  It would have been a public sacrilege to receive.  It was a scandal to try.  And you can tell that they were trying to provoke this whole situation.  Shame on them.] I hardly think a little rainbow button rises to such a threshhold, and it seems unlikely that anyone would be scandalized that college students –  who still care enough to show up at church – disagree with their elders on a sexual matter. Like that’s never happened before.

The writer’s bottom line?  We can do and believe anything it pleases us to believe without reference to the Church’s teachings or pastors who interpret that teaching.  We can do anything we want, and who the hell cares?

Archbishop Nienstedt does.

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54 Responses to Catholic univ. students defy Church, Archbp. Nienstedt over homosexuality

  1. Scott W. says:

    But unless the law has changed–and it hasn’t–there is no justification for withholding communion from a member of the body of Christ unless that person is a notorious public sinner whose communion would somehow cause grave scandal in the church.

    So can we take it he supports denying Pelosi? Somehow I doubt it. I’d like Ed Peter’s take on whether a notorious public sinner is the only condition that communion can be denied.

  2. becket1 says:

    Looks like the Benedictines at St John’s Abbey are doing a very poor job in teaching and maintaining the faith!. Maybe the Abbey should be completely removed from the college. And just let the Monks be Monks. As they repent for their failure.

  3. Dr. Eric says:

    First off, I have triangle choke for Bryan Comes. How dare that little %€£¥# come off so disrespectful to the Metropolitan or worse Our Lord in the Eucharist. I couldn’t even finish the article, my blood pressure started to skyrocket.

    Also, we should lock down on who can receive the Eucharist like The Orthodox do. Unless the priest knows you have been to Confession and are an Orthodox Christian in good standing, you are not offered The Eucharist.

  4. JARay says:

    Wearing a rainbow sash is a public dissent from Church teaching and therefore it makes one a public sinner and giving the Body and Blood of Jesus to someone who is making a public demonstration of their sin, is actually partaking in THEIR sin of sacrilege.

  5. keithp says:

    Wonderful!

    I sincerely hope and pray this is the “shot heard ’round the world”. And, that other Bishops and Church leaders so inspired will follow this excellent example.

  6. Larry R. says:

    Bryan Cones is one of the most distressing catholyc writers around. There is no progressive cause he will not trumpet at the expense of the Church.

    Where are such people formed? Why maintain such a strong attachment to an institution one plainly loathes so much? If you can’t accept, oh, about half the moral doctrine of the Faith, why bother being in that Church? His lack of Faith is astounding – he does not, can not believe in the Catholic conception of sin. He denies that it’s a sin to hold views antithetical to the Faith, and he rejects that it’s a possibly quite worse sin to receive Communion while in the state of serious sin.

    There is nothing that has caused more rot in the Church than Cones’ vision of “pastoral” leadership. What that means to him, is allowing him and those like him to reject whatever Church doctrine they want, in preference of their wordly wisdom.

    Have these people never read the Saints? Do they not know how many Saints begged God to punish them and spare those who reject the Church and the Truth Christ has revealed through Her? Many of these Saints had visions of souls in hell, souls who had left the Church or rejected the Truth. It seems impossible they have read St. Margaret Mary dei Pazzi or Teresa of Jesus or Padre Pio. If they did, the writings certainly did not have the impact it did on me.

    I pray for the conversion of their hearts.

  7. JosephMary says:

    I also do not like the small ‘e’ used for Eucharist which is, the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, and is not a ‘wafer’.

    So they just keep demanding that everyone accept their immoral lifestyle. Reminds me of the womynpriests demanding everyone give credence to thier views too. It does not work that way.

  8. TLMom says:

    God bless the Archbishop. This goes beyond poor cathechesis. Our young people are being indoctrinated in the same sex agenda. The propaganda comes at them from all directions in school, the media, friends and even family. In a culture riddled with relativism and false charity, the teachings of the Church are held up as outdated at best and cruel and hateful at worst! I pray that we have not permanently lost this generation to the madness.

  9. medievalist says:

    “He offered his body and blood for everyone.”

    Thankfully, the corrected version of the pro multis will, I hope, clear up this understanding, along with the mistaken notion that “there is no justification for withholding communion from a member of the body of Christ unless that person is a notorious public sinner whose communion would somehow cause grave scandal in the church”

  10. keithp says:

    I wonder if anyone has seen this?

    http://wcco.com/local/communion.glbt.button.2.1948065.html

    “The Rev. Rene McGraw, a professor of philosophy at St. John’s, said he held a short mass for the small group later the same night in which he served all of them communion. He took issue with the archdiocese’s interpretation of canon law when it comes to who can receive communion.

    “My understanding of church law is that one is not to deny communion to anyone unless he or she is a public sinner, and that has traditionally been interpreted very narrowly,” McGraw said. “My instinct was these are people who were in need, I’m supportive of them, therefore I’m happy to say mass for them.”

  11. frjim4321 says:

    Does anyone have video of this? Was this a case of justly refusing communion or an archbishop using the refusal of communion to make a political point? [The Archbishop using it to make a political point? Did I read that correctly?]

    I read somewhere that this DVD campaign was paid for by the Knights of Columbus and must have cost at least a million dollars. [My understanding is that a lay person in the Twin Cities paid for it.] Are the Knights of Columbus becoming little more than a PAC? It seems under Carl Anderson they are losing their way. (Carl Anderson is known to have been an operative for the republic party, and ever since his leadership of the K-of-C their political neutrality has been questionable at best)

    Fr. Jim

  12. prairie says:

    I’ll be praying for the good bishop tonight. And the students and misguided reporters. Lord have mercy!

  13. UncleBlobb says:

    “She said their complaint is with church hierarchy, not with the colleges.”

    Their complaint is really with the Lord God and His revealed teachings.

  14. Dave N. says:

    I’ve often wondered why the bishop/archbishop couldn’t be the diocesean/archdiocesean spokesman. I think the message(s) would be stronger.

  15. jilly4ski says:

    @Fr. Jim, no video, but this is not a new issue in MN. A few years ago the then Archbishop Harry Flynn told a group of people wearing rainbow sashes that they would not be able to receive communion, but the group presented themselves at the Cathedral on Pentecost, wearing their sashes, and were denied. Archbishop Flynn was no bastion of conservative politics or traditional liturgy, but he was not going to let people use the Mass as a platform for their political agendas. It seems Archbishop Nienstedt is doing the same. It is not the Bishop who was making this a political statement, but the students, by wearing the buttons and sashes, which is why they were denied the Eucharist.

    I will pray for the Archbishop, the diocese was blessed to get him.

  16. frjim4321 says:

    jilly, thanks, I had heard this but did not remember the city.

    Frankly, I think it was a goof to play into the hands of the protesters by denying communion. [A politician’s assessment, perhaps, but not a priestly one.]

    As the scriptures remind us, “Time will prove where wisdom lies.”

  17. capchoirgirl says:

    I especially love that Elizabeth, the VP of the group, is a theology major. Wow. Perhaps she should, I dunno, really study theology ?
    As for trying to take the Eucharist–actually take it–wow. I cannot ever, ever, ever imagine doing such a thing. I sort of wish there’d been a Big Voice of God from the Sky rebuking that student. That would’ve woken him up.
    And finally re: Comes. Um, Jesus didn’t come to Earth so we could all hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”. He came to save us . And Sacred Truth is non-negotiable, buddy.

  18. Elly says:

    I like the “who still care enough to show up at church” part, as if we are supposed to be so impressed by that.

  19. frjim4321 says:

    Elly, you think we should not be interested in what it is in college-aged faithful that motivates them to remain active in the church as opposed to so many of their peers who have shut the door behind them? It would seem that if we are to succeed in evangelizing young adults we must understand what motivates them.

  20. Denis Crnkovic says:

    @frjim4321
    “Frankly, I think it was a goof to play into the hands of the protesters by denying communion.”

    JARay has said it right. Had the bishop given them communion, he would have risked committing a sin himself. Even were this a grand ‘goof’ in the political arena, it is way better than publicly committing a sin and scandalizing the flock. Bishop Nienstadt has consistently stood by the Church’s morality. The college kids were the ones playing games here. If their motivation for going to Mass was to play politics then they need to be taught and learn the tenets of their Faith much better.

  21. TJerome says:

    frjim4321, once again, you are demonstrating that you suffer from disordered thinking. Any sentient human being would conclude that the gays/gays sympathizers were politicizing the Mass, not the Archbishop.

  22. TJ: Please moderate that tone.

  23. Marg says:

    Why should students attending Catholic Colleges need evangelizing? They should be the ones defending the Faith. This is the result of so called Catholic institutions not being reigned in a long time ago. We are seeing the rotten “fruit”. I feel sorry for these young people being used to promote the devil’s agenda. P.S. I wish our bishop would send out DVDs explaining Catholic teachings.

  24. frjim4321 says:

    Guess we can agree to disagree, TJ.

  25. frjim4321: I don’t agree to disagree. I just disagree.

    That move on the part of the students… the students… at the time of Communion compelled the Archbishop not to distribute Communion to those who were protesting, and also trying to take Communion.

  26. teaguytom says:

    It’s sad that so many Catholics have no clue when it comes to who can receive or be denied communion. Even the guy sitting in the back behind the group thought it was wrong that they were denied communion. It’s always been church teaching that homosexual acts are grave sins against God and his natural law. The fact that they are publicly protesting in front of the congregation and Bishop while wearing rainbow buttons is a public sin. He has every right as a Bishop to deny them the Eucharist. The Bishop doesn’t just blindly dispense the Eucharist like it is a Nilla wafer for the kiddies showing up. You have to be a Catholic who is not in a state of mortal sin and apparently these college kids, and some journalists, need to read the Catechism and learn the REAL faith.

  27. pfreddys says:

    Gay marriage is an oximoron….and so are the people who support it!!!

  28. Lurker 59 says:

    Fr. Jim 4321,

    While we should be interested in the motivation of college-aged faithful to remain active in the Church, I do not find it of anyone’s interest to encourage the involvement of the unfaithful in activity that shapes the Catholic identity of the parish. Individuals who have a gross lack of knowledge of the will of Christ and human anthropology, should not, under any circumstances be given a platform to further perpetuate ignorance and to promote unwise and dangerous activity and thereby influence those who might be impressionable. They should be corrected, educated, brought to the sacraments of healing (especially penance), and invited to true communion with Christ. Catholic identity is important and we cannot simply overlook who Christ is and who Christ has called us to be in order to placate and accommodate ignorant opinions and unwise actions.

    While some of the culpability for the ignorance and attitude of entitlement of the members of Prism lies directly at the catechists, priests, bishops, and sundry other individuals who have failed them so horribly during their formation in the Catholic Faith, by no means does that lesson the responsibility of the Church and her faithful sons and daughters to continuously preach the truth of salvation and to prevent those who are ignorant of the truth and unwise in their actions from harming their own souls.

    That I think is the most important aspect in all of this — that the Bishop and his priests have the scared duty to not only heal individuals who suffer knowingly and unknowingly from sin and the fallen condition which we find ourselves in, but further to help prevent people from doing damage to their own souls and their salvation. The Church isn’t playing games and it is not a social club and it sure isn’t interested in helping individuals feel better about their sins.

    In all of this, it is so so so so easy to forget that we are talking about whether or not individuals are fleeing towards heaven or skipping towards hell, but that is what we are talking about here.

    1 Cor 11:27-30
    itaque quicumque manducaverit panem vel biberit calicem Domini indigne reus erit corporis et sanguinis Domini, probet autem se ipsum homo et sic de pane illo edat et de calice bibat, qui enim manducat et bibit indigne iudicium sibi manducat et bibit non diiudicans corpus, ideo inter vos multi infirmes et inbecilles et dormiunt multi.

    Evangalizing kids and young adults is not some special and mysterious thing. The Church simply needs to be authentic and to preach the Gospel as Christ wished for it to be preached and not according to our human understanding. This is what makes the Church attractive and what fills the pewes. We of the Church Militant must remember that it is primarilly God Himself who calls, invites, and gathers the people together. We are not Church because we have chosen to gather with like minded people, we are Church because God Himself has gathered us. The Church is His show, not ours, and we must ever endevor to become more Christ’s bride instead of trying to master Him and remake Him and His Bride according to our very human concerns.

  29. DHippolito says:

    We can do and believe anything it pleases us to believe without reference to the Church’s teachings or pastors who interpret that teaching. We can do anything we want, and who the hell cares?

    Sounds like the exact same attitude that allowed the clerical sex-abuse crisis to metastasize for centuries.

    I’m sorry but until Pope Benedict removes “men” like Roger Mahony and Bernard Law from the College of Cardinals, I have to laugh hysterically at any Church condemnations of same-sex marriage. I certainly don’t support that idea, myself; I do believe that homosexuality is not from God. But the hypocricy is just too precious. Besides, the Church has become so feminized that it’s getting hard to tell the men from the women, even when they wear vestments.

  30. My dear DHippolito, I have absolutely no problem telling the sexes apart. If you are experiencing such difficulties at church, you may sit down between me and my mother, and become fully informed. But I’m sure this is a rhetorical hyperbole, and that you are not in fact experiencing such neural distress.

  31. robtbrown says:

    frjim4321 says:

    Elly, you think we should not be interested in what it is in college-aged faithful that motivates them to remain active in the church as opposed to so many of their peers who have shut the door behind them?

    Being active within the Church is not the same as participating in certain Church activities. In so far as these people vehemently deny Church teaching (as well as the Divine authority of the Church to teach), they are not active within the Church. They are active outside the Church but are participating in Church activities.


    It would seem that if we are to succeed in evangelizing young adults we must understand what motivates them.

    From this article (and my own experience) it would appear that there has been little success at “evangelizing young adults”.

    I will repeat what I have said here before: Most priests don’t want to face the reality that what they are doing is not working. Instead, they rely on statistics: How many attend mass? How big is the collection? How is the building program going? How many permanent deacons are there?

  32. irishgirl says:

    Bravo to the Bishop for denying the Holy Eucharist to these ‘brats’! (You called ‘em right, Father Z!)

    This is one of the reasons I didn’t marry and have kids. I wouldn’t spend hard-earned money to send them to a so-called ‘catholic college’ and become indoctrinated by teachers who didn’t care to teach what the Church has always taught. And I’m also suspicious of females who study theology, BTW….

    If I were at that Mass (and were a strong man instead of a weak woman), I would have grabbed each of those ‘rainbow sashers’ by the earlobes, hauled them out of the church, and given them a sound thrashing! And I wouldn’t give ‘a rat’s behind’ what the ‘Human Rights Commission’ thought or said!

    Sorry for venting , Father Z-I just get so mad when I read stories like this!

  33. Pater OSB says:

    For more on St. John’s look here: http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/

  34. DisturbedMary says:

    Perhaps this angelic prayer should have been enclosed along with the DVDs…
    With the Blessed Sacrament suspended in the air, the angel at Fatima before the 3 children, prostrated himself and recited this prayer:
    O Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I adore Thee profoundly. I offer Thee the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and indifference by which He is offended. By the inifinite merits of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg the conversion of poor sinners.

  35. Rich says:

    Hijacking the liturgy as a ruse for “dialogue”, just as one would hijack a plane…for “dialogue” with a nation’s leaders about its policies. Right.

  36. Scott W. says:

    I see the obligatory negate-everything-by-mentioning-priest-abuse card has been thrown.

  37. DHippolito says:

    Suburbanbanshee, you’re right about the rhetorical hyperbole. I suggest you read anything written by Michael Rose, Leon Podles or Stephen Brady. The problem goes far beyond rhetorical hyperbole.

    Scott W., I suggest you look up Matthew 7:5 and Luke 6:42. That will tell you what I think about the Church’s teaching on homosexual relationships, given the current climate.

    And, no, I don’t support what these students did. It’s insulting (if not blasphemous) to use Communion as a platform to make a political point. Nevertheless, as I said, unless Pope Benedict dismisses Mahony and Law from the College of Cardinals, the Church really has no leg to stand on concerning homosexuality.

  38. marthawrites says:

    Irishgirl says “I ‘m also suspicious of girls who study theology, BTW” We have a lovely daughter who is about to defend her Ph.D. thesis in Spirituality. She has an undergraduate degree in theology, a masters in theology and another masters in sacred music and organ performance. She is one of the holiest persons I know, not a feminist, not a radical, but a true lover of the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. Her example–a beautiful, intelligent, multi-talented, fun-loving, happily married new mother is a profound witness to her friends and to her students of how a lay woman can place Almighty God first in one’s life without wishing to be a priest, a diocesan power broker, or anything in between.

  39. Alice says:

    SJU/CSB needs all the help it can get in matters Catholic. I thought of transferring there when I was in college because there organ program is quite good. I was shocked that the upperclassmen that showed me around the campus had no idea what a Tabernacle or the Blessed Sacrament might be. I was also shocked that the sisters’ chapel had been so horribly wreckovated, although the Noack organ was quite nice.

  40. Scott W. says:

    I suggest you look up Matthew 7:5 and Luke 6:42. That will tell you what I think about the Church’s teaching on homosexual relationships, given the current climate.

    I didn’t ask and am not disputing that. What I am suggesting is that you treat your fellow interlocuters a little better by not throwing this bucket of ice on every discussion.

  41. RJLennon says:

    As a student at St John’s, it’s really awkward for me seeing everybody notice this. I agree with the Archbishop’s position and actions, but my best friend’s girlfriend is Ms. Gleich, VP of the group that organized the pins. I’m hoping to get a chance to just talk to her one-on-one about what the group did, and why I don’t think it helped anybody.
    I know Fr. Rene, I had a philosophy class with him last fall. Even if I don’t know his exact reasons for saying Mass for the PRiSM folks, I don’t think it’s just to spite the Archbishop – that seems too petty for a man as thoughtful and intelligent as he.

    Reading some of these comments, I guess I don’t feel much charity towards CSB/SJU and the Abbey. Up here there ARE faithful and obedient members of the Church, even if they don’t get the news. Of course maybe I’m wrong in that first statement, and these institutions need their faults pointed out this harshly. And I’m not even being sarcastic, maybe they do!

  42. Daniel Latinus says:

    I am ashamed to say US Catholic is published in Chicago by the Cleretian Fathers. Given what happened to the former editor of America for publishing opinions contrary to the Faith, why hasn’t action been taken by the Vatican against the Cleretians?

  43. A very strong commentary on this by Dr. Mirus at Catholic Culture: Wolves among the Sheep: The Collegeville Affair

  44. mndad says:

    “This is one of the reasons I didn’t marry and have kids. I wouldn’t spend hard-earned money to send them to a so-called ‘catholic college’ and become indoctrinated by teachers who didn’t care to teach what the Church has always taught. ” Irishgirl , I am sorry to hear this – and I really do not believe that this was indeed one of your reasons – it perhaps came to your mind in the context of this post – I can assure you that most of us parents have no such worries.

  45. Frankly, I think it was a goof to play into the hands of the protesters by denying communion.

    Fr. Jim, so far from being a goof, the Archbishop’s response was a tonic. It is uplifting to see the Archbishop doing the right thing. On the other hand, nothing is more demoralizing to the faithful than to see people like the Rainbow Sashers publicly defy the Church’s teaching with impunity — and far too much of that has been going on for many years now.

  46. jilly4ski says:

    @RJLennon, I am a alumna of CSB/SJU and greatly appreciate the education and opportunities for daily Mass and community prayer that I received there. But these institutions as “religious” institutions need to be told and pointed out where they are wrong and hurtful to the faith. After my first year I did not go to any Mass at Sacred Heart Chapel unless I had to after a certain incident with the nuns. (They told me I was being “anti community” by singing too loud and kneeling during the Eucharistic prayer). When I was a student, there was open hostility to the Pope, when he was elected, and the Chaplin resigned over the Vatican’s announcement that it those with “deeply seeded homosexual tendencies” could not become priests. These are serious institutional problems, while these students actions were not initially organized or supported by the institutions, Fr. Rene’s actions did suggest approval. While it might be difficult to hear criticism of a place that we love, it doesn’t make the criticism any less warranted.

    @DHippolito you do realize that the Pope can’t remove Cardinals from the college of Cardinals right? And how does an Archbishop, who is not connected with either of these Cardinals or the scandals, not have a leg to stand on when he teaches and preaches the Catholic faith?

  47. AnAmericanMother says:

    It’s amazing — the folks who don’t see a problem with this are as predictable as the day.

    The same old story: for heterodox or disobedient Catholics, everything is political. They see everything through a political glass, darkly.

    They have politicized homilies, liturgy, RCIA, Sunday School, and now they see nothing wrong with politicizing the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. What part of sacrilege do you not get?

    I’ll say it again: THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH WELCOMES YOU! Find a ‘high church’ but politically liberal congregation like Smoky Mary’s and you will be happy as clams.

  48. irishgirl says:

    marthawrites-when I made my remark about ‘being suspicious of females who study theology’, I did not mean people like your daughter. I’m just a dumb middle-aged single woman who never went to college. I just get tired of radical feminists who think they know more about the Church and distort her teachings just because they sport a theology degree.

    mndad-that’s ‘one’ of the reasons why I didn’t marry and breed children. I was never very keen on the ‘sexual part’ of marriage-and I’m no ‘raging feminist’ although I grew up during the 1960s and 1970s when the women’s movement came on the scene. I just never felt equal to the burdens and responsibilities of marriage. I would have been very frustrated trying to instill Catholic morals and teachings into the heads of any children I would have had, only to have them mocked and derided by their peers, the media, and the public [and oftentimes even ‘catholic’] schools. You can’t watch over your kids 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I couldn’t take that kind of anguish.

  49. Alice says:

    RJLennon,
    I’m sure there are lots of good people at SJU/CSB. Whenever I think about the school I try to remember to pray that God will call orthodox young men and women into the communities and reform them. The Benedictines have been reformed many times in their long history and it’s about time for a reform there.

    My parents were very opposed to the idea that I might transfer there because it was so liberal, but the pastor of the church where they attended the Indult Mass told them that I’d find like-minded (traditional) people and be OK. I ended up staying where I was (and meeting my husband), but if I ever get the chance, I’d love to do graduate work at Collegeville.

  50. Supertradmum says:

    Irishgirl,

    I studied theology and am very glad I did. In order to be involved in home education at the high school level, or to help in RCIA, or even grade school Sacramental prep, theology classes are necessary.

    As to Benedictine colleges, St. John’s and others have been liberal for years, and this includes at least three of the Benedictine seminaries. Too bad this wonderful bishop does not have more power over these institutions, but as I have discovered, Bishops and Abbots are practically equal in local power.

  51. irishgirl says:

    Supertradmum-I’m glad that you studied theology for all the ‘right reasons’. As I stated above, my beef is with the radical feminists like this student at Collegeville. I apologize if my remark seemed to be aimed at ALL female theology students-it wasn’t.

    As I also said, I’m just a dumb single middle-aged woman who never attended college. What do I know? A big fat ZILCH! Never liked school-hated it with a passion.

  52. DHippolito says:

    What I am suggesting is that you treat your fellow interlocuters a little better by not throwing this bucket of ice on every discussion.

    First, how does mentioning the obvious mistreat my fellow interlocuters? Second, what do you think Christ Himself would say about “the Situation” (hint: read Matthew 23)? Third, it was the abusers and their episcopal enablers who destroyed the Church’s moral credibility on sexual issues with their behavior and complacency in the face of legitimate calls for justice, not me.

    @DHippolito you do realize that the Pope can’t remove Cardinals from the college of Cardinals right? And how does an Archbishop, who is not connected with either of these Cardinals or the scandals, not have a leg to stand on when he teaches and preaches the Catholic faith?

    First, perhaps it’s time for another amendment to Canon Law forcing such men out if they allow atrocities against the innocent to be committed (Unfortunately, the Vaticanisti won’t do anything that might dilute their power). Second, I’m not talking about this cardinal, specifically; he not only has the right but the obligation to do what he did. I’m talking about the Church as a whole.

    Besides, it’s easy to sanction college students. Wake me up when the good cardinal does the same to major politicians in his own state.

  53. robtbrown says:

    jilly4ski says:

    @DHippolito you do realize that the Pope can’t remove Cardinals from the college of Cardinals right? And how does an Archbishop, who is not connected with either of these Cardinals or the scandals, not have a leg to stand on when he teaches and preaches the Catholic faith?

    I won’t hang for this, but I think Pius XII removed one man from the C0llege of Cardinals.

  54. Springkeeper says:

    These people will never stop until the Pope caves in on every one of their demands. I pray that His Holiness and the Archbishop continue to stand for truth. Mass is not about just us or any of our politics, it is about the Lord. How dare anyone interfere and try to steal God’s “moment” for themselves especially for a cause that is so clearly unbiblical and then claim they are the so-called injured parties. Did they stop for even a moment and consider the crucified Christ?