NCR’s Sr. Fielder implies that men faithful to Church teachings are sick in the head

That keen observer of human behavior Samuel Johnson had sobering observations about self-delusion.  For example, he wrote

“However we may labour for our own deception, truth, though unwelcome, will sometimes intrude upon the mind.”  [Idler #80 October 27, 1759].

And so I turn my attention to the perennial deceptions of Sr. Maureen Fiedler who writes for… yes!… the National Catholic Fishwap.

Sr. Fiedler has been nurturing the delusion that the male fraidycats in “The Vatican” are a-scared of the notion of women’s ordination.

I used the word “notion” here, precisely because it sounds like sewing bobble.

My emphases and comments.

The Vatican’s Fear of Women
by Maureen Fiedler on Aug. 11, 2011

I am been amazed, and a bit amused, by the lightening speed [?!?  HA!] with which the Vatican [I always enjoy that.  "The Vatican"!] has been reacting to any slight sound or movement in favor of women’s ordination, especially among the hierarchy or clergy. [Sister... clergy are the hierarchy too... right? I suggest you brush up on your Lumen gentium.]

Recently, the Patriarch of Lisbon [I'll bet Sister loves that title!] was called in for “conversations” of his publicly stated belief that there is no “fundamental obstacle” to women’s ordination. Bishop William Morris of Australia was removed for suggesting that the ordination of women might be one solution to the growing worldwide shortage of priests. [That wasn't the only reason, Sister.  But it would have sufficed.] And of course, Maryknoll priest Roy Bourgeois, under fire for years, ["under fire"?  Yes, if five years of shooting himself in his own foot counts for being "under fire".] and has now received his second canonical warning calling on him to recant his belief that women can be called to priesthood… or be thrown out of his order. [Poor Roy.  Perhaps Sr. Fiedler could find him a spot in the Sisters of Loretto! Or... do they discriminate? ]

In addition to that, in July 2010, a Vatican document [It wasn't just from "The Vatican".  It was from the CDF.] listed “women’s ordination” as a “crime” at the same level of gravity as pedophilia! [Hmmm... no.  Not really.  The document did not say that they were at the same level of gravity.  That's Sister's conclusion, but it isn't quite right.  The document classified both crimes of child abuse by a cleric and crimes of attempting to ordain a woman as needing to be treated at the same level of procedure, at the CDF.  Just because they are in the same category of graviora delicta, they are not necessarily the same gravity of sin. The two sinful actions, which are also crimes, are rather like apples and oranges, both fruit bnut really different from each other.  Nevertheless, I'll say that while the first horrid crime scars young people and communities for life, the latter horrid crime scars the People of God and harms the community as well, not to mention the souls of those who delude themselves into thinking that they are really getting somewhere each time the get on a boat or go into a Protestant church and pretend.]

I never cease to be amazed that this topic engenders serious Vatican action and movement, when the scandal of abusive priests, and the bishops who covered up the scandal, received little notice or reprimand from that same Vatican until the secular press and the civil courts called them account.  [blah blah yawn ... Sister needs a new argument.  But I will agree that sometimes I, too, marvel that these women and their camp-followers receive any serious notice.  Then again, we have to pay attention, no?  Their souls are in danger.  That is serious.]

But aside from this obvious and scandalous difference, [Here is where the second level of her delusion comes in...] there is a deeper question: why is the Vatican so fearful of women as priests or deacons? [Oooo!  The Pope's a-scared!] Many analysts have said that the men in Rome simply want to perpetuate the “old boys’ club” of the church where they all feel comfortable. Others have cited sexism, pure and simple. Still others have said they continue to believe their own flawed theology. [Sr. Fiedler corrects the Church?  Let's all say it together: Magisterium of Nuns.  Then quietly chuckle.]

[This is the best part!] But I wonder if something deeper is wrong… something psychological, some form of corruption… But at this point, the actions of the Vatican on this issue are so bizarre, it’s worth asking new questions.

“New questions”!

This is the same old psychobabble that these old liberals have been on for decades now!

Chimps couldn’t fling this stuff better than a… very mature liberal.

Let’s now think through some of Sr. Fiedler’s musings.

Consider.  Two bishops and a Maryknoll priest have a bizarre notion about women’s ordination.  So?  Think of a Catholic teaching, even a dogma, and you will be able to find a couple bishops and a priest out there who have bizarre ideas about it.

If a couple bishops and a priest in the wide world have strange ideas about, say, transubstantiation, should we then have to rethink transubstantiation?   How about the Church’s teachings about slavery?

Where is the bar?  How high do we set it?  Two bishops and a priest?  Or do we need a few more?  How many more?

As for “lightning speed” … it is to laugh. “The Vatican” moves at “lightning speed”!  That may be the first time anyone seriously believed that, I am admire Sister’s confidence.  However, think it through.  Tthere are profs at Catholic universities spouting looney ideas about all manner of Catholic teaching and yet they still receive paychecks every week.  There are at least three groups in favor of women’s ordination and none of them have been excommunicated or interdicted.

You wanna see lightning speed?  Let me run things for a while.

For the absurdity.

And who was it who injected fear into the discussion?  The basis of “The Vatican’s” objections in the documents is 200o years teaching not fear.

And now we come to the part of her piece which makes any rational reader feel a little unclean.

“I wonder”, she muses, “if something deeper is wrong”….

Ooooooo!  You are supposed to make a connection with her reference to… wait for it… pedophilia.  Fiedler is using code language, but she has put her foot wrong.  Take her argument a little farther and then turn it inside out.

She is saying that if priests don’t want women to be priests, then maybe those male priests are actually psychosexually immature.  They are sick in the head.  But where she really leads you to infer is that men who don’t want women to be priests are really homosexuals, not pedophiles.  Right?  The fact is that the problem of abuse of children – sorry, it has to be said – is mostly a homosexual problem: most of the victims were male and a huge percentage were not little children.  The majority of the cases were not textbook pedophilia.  They were something else.  When Fiedler tries to make you connect resistance to women’s ordination with psychosexual problems, she is really straying into the territory of homosexuality.  People who don’t agree with her are sick in the head.  They have a problem.  They are deviants.

This, friends, is how liberals work.  They smear people with ad hominem attacks.  And they hurt people.  People with homosexual inclinations, just like everyone else, deserve our respect and compassion for the burden they carry.  They don’t need a Sister of Loretto to be judgmental about them.

But that is Sister’s position, right?  If someone, some male priest, wants to be faithful to the Church’s teaching on male-only priesthood, then he must be sick in the head.  Liturgical liberals do the same thing, don’t they?  If a priest prefers the Extraordinary Form, he is… maybe… perhaps… get it?  Huh?  Get it?  Clever, no?

Turn these tired old dissenter arguments inside out like a too-long-worn gym sock and all you find is a wad of nasty foot lint you’d rather not have had to think about.

And I thought the Sisters of Loretto were supposed to be more compassionate, committed to justice and peace.  Instead, Sister labels people as backward and fearful and sick in the head.  Nice.

And here is a different, worse, example in the same catholic outlet!

So, at the end of this nasty gym sock of an argument, let’s return to Dr. Johnson… Samuel Johnson, that is:

“However we may labour for our own deception, truth, though unwelcome, will sometimes intrude upon the mind.”  [Idler #80 October 27, 1759]

I’ll leave the combox open, but please avoid ad mulierem attacks on poor Sister Fiedler.  Go after her false ideas and dissent all you want, but don’t descend to the name calling and judgmentalism she applied to any priest who is faithful to the Church’s teachings.

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56 Responses to NCR’s Sr. Fielder implies that men faithful to Church teachings are sick in the head

  1. Joseph-Mary says:

    She can be “ordained” in any number of protestant churches with the same amount of validity as any so-called ‘catholic’ ordination might bring her. Then she would not have to put up with “the Vatican” or ‘patriarchs’ or all those rules. Or even with Our Blessed Lord Himself.

    She is free to do this. But, no, such a ones prefer to throw stones from within and continue their scandalous behavior essentially with impunity.

  2. irishgirl says:

    What Joseph-Mary said!
    Wow, Father Z, you sure put a lot of red ‘ink’ in your comments!

  3. Harja says:

    As Joseph-Mary says above, the Lutheran and Anglican communions gladly ordain women and the Ev. Luth. Church in Canada even has a woman as its presiding bishop. When I had a “functional” rather than a Sacramental view of ordination and ministry, I was a Lutheran myself but study and acceptance of Catholic teaching on Sacraments caused me to swim the Tiber. (Ordination was not my only sacramental issue).

    May those catholic Christians who decent from the Magisterium join others.

  4. Widukind says:

    Fr. Z.
    You are on a roll! You shoot the darts out with precision and clarity, quickly deflating their balloon. You also did great with your “Waiting for Zagano” article. Thank you, and the blessings of God be upon you.

  5. irishgirl says:

    Harja-surely you meant, ‘dissent’? As in ‘dissent from the Magisterium’?

  6. pfreddys says:

    I’m at the point, Father where I must insist that you stop wrapping the fish in that newspaper! What did the poor fish do to deserve it, and I would think the fish would rot quicker in such a wrapper.
    I think it better to refer to this newspaper as The National Catholic Birdcage Liner.

  7. La Sandia says:

    No, these women by and large won’t seek ordination in a Protestant church because their rebellion and dissent from the Catholic Church is what gives their lives meaning. It’s much more gratifying to their pride to feel like they are making a “courageous” stand against the Big Bad Vatican than to go off to a Protestant denomination where they are pretty run-of-the-mill.

    And the gall that they have to invoke so-called “pedophile priests”! Wasn’t it the liberal promotion of a homosexual/libertine subculture in seminaries and chanceries the major factor in the abuse of (mostly) ADOLESCENT BOYS?!?! If anything, we should be calling them out for this, although that would be sinking down to their level.

  8. Supertradmum says:

    All women who are against the patriarchy, as set up by Our Lord Jesus Christ, Himself choosing to a Man and choosing men to be his apostles, are basically anti-male. I really do not care “why” anymore, that is, if their dads were too strict, or they encountered a harsh priest, etc. The harping on women priests is simply, very simply, disobedience. There is a reason why Christ came as a Man and why He chose men, but that is another discussion. Of course, we remember that those religions surrounding ancient Judaism were highly represented by women priestesses, and all the idolatry, including ritual sex, which surrounded those cults.

  9. Captain Peabody says:

    “Others have cited sexism, pure and simple. Still others have said they continue to believe their own flawed theology.”

    Whoaaaaa! Is Sr. Fiedler actually suggesting that these people act like women’s ordination is impossible because…(gasp) they actually BELIEVE that women’s ordination is impossible?! And that they actually (shudder) have…THEOLOGY to back them up?! How scandalous! How disgusting! Clearly, these people are mentally and psychologically defective!

    All I can say is, thank goodness Sr. FIEDLER doesn’t believe in HER flawed theology! *whew*

    Dodged a bullet there.

  10. Cathy says:

    Supertradmum,

    I agree, the women and men, who cry that the all male priesthood and diaconate is the result of sexism as opposed to the ordained will of Jesus Christ through the Church, are basically anti-male and guilty of the sexism they propose. Isn’t it strange, by the way, how society treats female perpetrators and their male victims? I can’t imagine that an adult, married male schoolteacher who would happen to impregnate and bear children with a minor female and subsequently, after jail time, chose to marry the girl would have a nationally televised wedding to celebrate. Yet, when the perpetrator is female, this is acceptable?

    Might I also add, I am tired of the description of priests who fall into sexual sin with adult women as “vultures” and the women as “innocent victims”. It seems equality is embraced in certain ascertained areas, while in others it seems responsibility selectively falls upon the shoulders of those distinguished by their sex, mainly male.

  11. it never ceases to amaze me that the proponents for change inall churches and denoinations operate from the same play book, and I don’t mean the Bible. Again why don’t they all join the Episcopal church or ELCA and they can have their wishes come true. We have some of these same nuts in the Orthodox Church. Fortunately we have some bishops who dealing directly with thse issues and clarifying the Church’s proper teaching.

  12. anilwang says:

    Actually, I agree with this:
    “But I wonder if something deeper is wrong… something psychological, some form of corruption… But at this point, the actions of the Vatican on this issue are so bizarre, it’s worth asking new questions.”

    Someone has to be delusional since both claim to speak the truth. Either the Vatican (and Orthodox and Orientals and Copts) is speaking the truth and the Magisterium(s) of Nuns is delusional, or one of the Magisterium(s) of Nuns (remember, there are many Pro-WO groups, they can’t seem to agree on what needs to be done) is right and all the other Magisterium(s) of Nuns and the Vatican (and Orthodox and Orientals and Copts) are delusional.

    Take your pick. But if you ask me, if the Vatican and Orthodox and Orientals and Copts are delusional on this, that can be delusional on everything in the Faith and nothing is trustworthy. You can’t even claim that one the the schismatics had it right and Catholics were wrong. We might as well call it a day and become Orthodox Jews (which apparently done allow Women rabbis) since the Vatican and Orthodox and Orientals and Copts might be delusional that Jesus is God as well and Paul and the Council of Jerusalem might be delusional that one could be Christian without first becoming a Jew.

  13. Peggy R says:

    I find it very scandalous (in both the Catholic and common meanings) for a person who is in a position of authority in the Church to say publicly that the Church’s theology is flawed. [Even if a woman religious is not in some administrative position of authority, by virtue of her vocation, a woman religious is an "authority" or example on striving to live the holy life and giving one's life to Jesus. The faithful look to women religious as examples of following the Gospel. We also presume they know the faith given their dedication to the Church.]

    And if the evil male hierarchy is “a-scared” of female ordination I think they’d be justified in fearing putting the souls of all the Church in danger and setting Jesus’ Church and all His people off course against His teaching.

    Finally, yes, I’ve also read hints that those priests who enjoy the traditional liturgy and those fancy frilly vestments may really be closeted. And I thought these folks favored gaity! Is it a point of shame or not?

  14. tzard says:

    The issue of bringing up “fear” is an interesting one to me. As one who was bullied a lot as a child, it brings back memories of the taunts of the children: “What are you, chicken?”. No, truly it does.

    Same thing for the neologism “homophobia” – to which the unaware might respond “I’m not afraid” – but that’s not the point – it’s about manipulation, just like a schoolyard bully daring you to do something you know is wrong or dangerous.

    She may not be aware of the connection here – it may just be her standard playbook, the same worn track of a worn out record (remember those?) – a rut she can’t think herself out of. Can’t or won’t.

  15. robtbrown says:

    I agree with Fr Z: The common tactics of people like Sr Fiedler is to describe those faithful to doctrine with psychological (or pseudo-psychological) terms referring to maladjustment. It is no coincidence that this was a common tactic used in the Soviet Union. The good sister is trying to understand the reservation of the Sacrament of Holy Orders to men by using Marxist Analysis, i.e., the oppression of the underclass (here: women). [Good catch!]

  16. Scott W. says:

    it never ceases to amaze me that the proponents for change inall churches and denoinations operate from the same play book, and I don’t mean the Bible. Again why don’t they all join the Episcopal church or ELCA and they can have their wishes come true.

    Others above gave some reason why dissidents won’ t just open up a phone book and pick a church from the many denominations that ordain women. The fact that they want to stay is one of things things I call Negative Witnesses to Truth–that is, they know full well going somewhere else and being ordained would be a hollow victory–that means there IS something special about the Church, but ultimately everyone should tatoo this backwards on their foreheads so they can read it in the mirror every morning: Progressivism is about destruction and chaos. So Henry VIII conveniently discovered a right to rebel from the Church way back when; in a bit of poetic justice, 2oo+ years later, the brood of low-church malcontents in America conveniently discovered a right to rebel from kings. And here we are today with those same malcontents rebelling against the only things left: basic law & order, virtue, goodness itself, and even what maleness and femaleness is.

  17. yatzer says:

    Father, I stand in awe of your ability to think these things through, and am very happy you answered the call to become a priest. I wish I could think that clearly when stuff like this is tossed at me. I just know it’s wrong, but can’t think fast enough to respond well.

    [Sometimes you just have to ask a couple questions. Does what she says apply to any other teaching? Do her claims of numbers or her premises really make sense? Turn the sock inside out.]

  18. MyBrokenFiat says:

    How is she still a nun? [That's between her and the Sisters of Loretto and perhaps event the Congregation for Religious and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.] Why does Fr. Roy get yet another warning? [Ditto.] And why are those who continue to push this issue forth given any sort of audience??? [Because NCR is still in business.]

    *grumble, grumble, grumble*

    I’m all for saving souls, but it’s almost as if we’re being too nice for our own good. Allowing this sort of evil to metastasize only serves to further harm faithful Catholics. Many people see these people as having credibility because of their titles. It’s heartbreaking and drives me up a flippin’ wall.

    :(

  19. Luke Whittaker says:

    Hah! I love it. Hilarity at its best. Thanks for the commentary, Father Z.

    On the other hand, while the extremely confused will always be with us (it is a kind of poverty, after all. . .) it is heartbreaking to witness the confusion and to remain helpless. In simple terms, shouldn’t we be perpetually concerned with who Jesus is as the God-MAN and what our subsequent roles are as men and women according to gospel principles? Arrogance wafts with the presumption of every dissenter who fails to submit their mind in obedience to the Magisterium. But they are not a part of our Lord’s flock, who says, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” (Jn 10:25-27 ; Lk 10:16). I can only hope that they have a change of heart.

  20. NewCatholic says:

    “[Poor Roy. Perhaps Sr. Fiedler could find him a spot in the Sisters of Loretto! Or... do they discriminate? ]”

    Thanks for the funniest line of the day, Father. And take the battle to them!

  21. Catholictothecore says:

    Ordination of women to the priesthood will never happen, evurrr. Jesus chose twelve men as his apostles. That’s the way it was and that’s the way it will be. Just give it up. Fr. Z, I love reading your comments and emphases, you have that special gift of dissecting an article or as you said, “turn the sock inside out.”

  22. Chris Garton-Zavesky says:

    I see in her comments the claim that old, hide-bound doctrines need to change merely because they are old and hide-bound. Isn’t that a basic definition of Modernism? Perhaps more globally, isn’t the problem with wanting to chuck everything that the person asking for it should (logically) be the first one out with last week’s potato peelings? The French Revolution comes to mind; so does the so-called Civil Rights Movement; Luther found that he asserted the principle of personal interpretation only to discover that when other people applied his ideas they disagreed with him on a whole host of theological issues. Suddenly, everyone had a right to his view only. Isn’t that, at least partly, characteristic of totalitarianism, not freedom in a proper, Catholic sense?
    Chris

  23. slater says:

    Interestingly, Sister Fiedler holds the same position (that those who adhere to the Church’s teachings) as vocation directors in some once-venerable religious orders. If you are orthodox, you need to get counseling.

  24. slater says:

    Sorry, I meant to say that Sr. Fiedler holds that men who adhere to the Church’s teachings are in serious need of counseling or treatment. Certain vocation directors of certain men’s religous orders, share her view and either reject or help ease out men who are orthodox.

  25. Phillip says:

    I almost feel sorry for Sr. Fiedler. How does she justify dedicating her life to Christ and His Church, all the while believing that the Church doesn’t speak authoritatively in Christ’s name? To deny the Church’s right to teach authoritatively is to be, for all intentions and purposes, a Protestant. It would make me bitter beyond belief if I were in such a position, waking up every day to serve (at least in theory) a Church I don’t actually believe in.

    It’s sad. Just sad. And more than anything else, she needs our prayers.

  26. I am a little uncomfortable with the “Magisterium of Nuns” label. It seems to fit this person, but there is a certain over-reaching, read in a certain way that could apply to all nuns. Many would be aghast at Sr. Maureen Fiedler’s disobedient notions.

    Might I suggest “Magisterium of Heterodox Nuns” as a more precise alternative?

  27. Random Friar says:

    For the past decade or two, those wanting to enter religious life have been subjected to now ever more rigorous psychological screening.

    Yes, the new crop of priests and religious devoted to Holy Mother Church are perfectly sane — and they have the papers to prove it!

  28. RichR says:

    [I suggest you brush up on your Lumen gentium.]

    Point, Zuhlsdorf.

  29. benedetta says:

    If she is asking for my vote to support her crusade to change the teaching of the Church (which obviously isn’t necessarily supposed to be the main thing at any rate), then, yes, I’m going to need more than just her subjective opinion that ‘male persons are evil’. I am not convinced that males are on the whole more or less evil as a matter of fact. Her argument would seem to point toward total anti-clericalism. In that I do not recognize Second Vatican.

    Further, the ‘worldwide vocation crisis’ is not just a crisis of shortage of priests but all Catholics are aware of the terrible effects of the deprivation so many places have suffered as a result of the shortage of vocations of women religious and consecrated. There will always be children in need of education, the sick and dying in need of mercy, the poorest and the shut in who must be visited, teaching at university level and academic scholarship, the arts, really a great need at every level of impact for female vocations. Her advocacy and focus on what has become known as sacramental ministry makes it seem as though these callings to religious life are useless. The Church does not see that calling as useless.

  30. What about us women who firmly believe in the absolutely unchangeable fact that the Church may not ordain women? Do we also suffer from some form of corruption on a deep psychological level?

  31. St. Rafael says:

    The National Catholic Reporter is a heretical rag. How is it that John Allen is able to fly around with the Pope in his papal plane? Why does the Vatican still allow them access? One way to kill this virus of a paper is to block all acess to the Vatican, Pope, and opportunity to report from Rome. A paper that dissents from the Church and spreads heresy, has no right to report or get acess to Church property and authority. They are not a credible media.

  32. pm125 says:

    The title of the article, ‘The Vatican’s Fear of Women’, blinks with yellow lights.
    As a woman, as member of the faithful, as a person who values objectivity, and as a driver who slows down in caution when the light turns yellow, I could only wonder where the First Commandment or fear of God is in those … words of the article. Was there resentment of God’s Word being revered as the foundation of the existence of the Vatican? I don’t know what to say except that this person’s head fears what sort of homily could come from the writer’s head.

  33. pinoytraddie says:

    Hmmm….Sr Fielder’s Article is Just Another Chapter in The “Magisterium of Nuns”!

    As for Fr Roy,I Would Rather have Military Dictators from Latin America anytime,over Women Priests!

  34. Maria says:

    The Vaticans fear of Women????

    “I am been amazed, and a bit amused, by the lightening speed [?!? HA!] with which the Vatican [I always enjoy that. "The Vatican"!] has been reacting to any slight sound or movement in favor of women’s ordination, especially among the hierarchy or clergy. ”

    The Womens Fear of The Vatican.

    Oh my oh my, these people who insist on ruling over Gods’ choice are so tedious and boring to say the least.
    Like a load of spoilt little children who stamp their feet and throw tantrums to get their own way over The Father, they constantly drone on with their noise and drivel.
    When will these immature pillocks learn.
    ‘The Vatican’ – as they say- are not the only ones who don’t go along with their ridiculous issues.
    WE, The Body of Christ wish to adhere to His Will, not ours and here is one example from The Lords Prayer:

    Our Father in Heaven
    Hallowed be THY name
    THY Kingdom come,
    THY WILL BE DONE ..on Earth as it is in Heaven.

    Why on earth dont they set up a womens Guild of their own and rant on there and rule over each other with their dictatorial ways, until they burn themselves out, and leave us alone?

    Perhaps they are fearful themselves because deep down, they know they will be alone in their miserable self righteous gatherings without The Holy Spirits help and guidance in their midst.

  35. teomatteo says:

    Sr Fielder leaves me wondering. What to think of women who are against women’s ordination? Are they damaged goods in the head too? She might intimate that they are just helpless in their being used for centuries. I quess only. But on another note Father Z. Your reference to a gym sock made me think of Dr. Seuss’ Grinch song by Boris Karloff>
    “Your heart is full of unwashed socks, your soul is full of …..”

  36. Glen M says:

    It’s outrageous that the NcR is still in business. Someone in “the Vatican” or the heirarchy needs to issue a statement or place it on the banned books list. Could Bishop Finn excommunicate the editor? There doesn’t seem to be much Catholic about this publication. It is basically a liberal/Protestant propaganda outlet that threatens many souls and has probably helped lose many others.

  37. John Nolan says:

    I’ve only seen the NCR online and it makes the Tablet (aka the suppository) look orthodox. It is a thoroughly poisonous, Romophobic rag. Should it libel you, Fr Z, I hope you sue it for substantial damages which could then be donated to a worthy cause such as the FSSP or ICKSP. Or better still, bankrupt it completely.

  38. S. Murphy says:

    CatholicofThule, teomatteo – I think the term for such women, about 20 years ago in academia was ‘pawn of the patriarchy.’ Apparently now it’s ‘cog in the kyriarchy’… kyriarchy being a newly-minted term intended to describe a system in which some who kick up and kick down are, in their turn, kicked from above. At least it acknowledges moral responsibility instead of mere victimhood.
    But yes, obviously we need our consciousness raised (to go with a lightly older term).

  39. Stephen D says:

    Those in favour of female ‘ordination’ clearly believe very firmly that, if they push hard and long enough, the door will open. They have to be convinced that this is NEVER, EVER going to happen and so make the decision whether to noisily depart or quietly obey. They are wasting so much time, verbiage and effort that could be applied in other ways (pro-life work is the one that comes to mind) it is a terrible waste of indignation.

  40. Luke Whittaker says:

    @ Stephen D: Sadly I think that their indefatigable confusion is sincere and immutable. May God lead them. . .

    What ever happened to the notion of having a love for wisdom and the setting aside of lesser truths for the greater ones that come to light? Anything else just seems to be an imposition of the self onto others. Unless, of course, I subscribe to Relativism, in which case I accuse you of trying to impose your view onto me whilst I am locked into my own surreal fantasy about the reality around me. Exactly how God reaches us within the depths of our own dysfunction to reveal himself is a mystery, to be sure.

  41. John Nolan says:

    Well, when Fr Ruff over at PrayTell blog has warned opponents of wymminpriests not to read too much into Ordinatio Sacerdotalis as it will be ‘revisited’ one day, and when the Archbishop of Westminster (no less) when confronted with the issue shrugged his shoulders and said ‘who knows?’, it can hardly be a surprise that a none-too-bright liberal nun might wade in with her half-baked opinions courtesy of a journal (I can’t believe it is that influential) which any disinterested reader might conclude exists only to oppose the teachings of the Catholic Church.

  42. benedetta says:

    John Nolan, Good point to bring up libel. Defamation is happening and those who indulge, and indulge, and indulge, on an incessant binge, and refuse to restrain selves in their excess and what they have no right to in the first place ought to take note.

  43. Jayna says:

    I’ve been getting the same kind of treatment from my Loyola classmates. There’s an FB group for graduate Theology students and someone posted a link to an NYT article about women’s ordination and of course everyone started lavishing praise upon those “brave enough” to stand up to the oppressive regime that is the Vatican. I mentioned that pesky letter from JPII and got the ubiquitous and always incorrectly used Newman line (the “drink to my conscience” one). I responded with Newman’s quote – in the same letter – regarding it being a sin to defy the pope if one has committed himself to obeying him. To which someone else responded “even the erring conscience binds.”

    One of the many reasons I am seriously considering transferring to St. Mary of the Lake.

  44. Martial Artist says:

    Father Z,

    I am a bit puzzled by one of the good Sister’s constructions. She referred to the Vatican’s

    lightening speed

    and you even commented on her remark. As a physicist, the construction strikes me as odd. Lightening, according to the dictionary seems to mean one of five things: (a) making brighter or illuminating; (b) becoming less intense (with respect to a color); (c) becoming less in weight; (d) becoming less oppressive, troublesome or severe; or (e) becoming cheerful.

    I would next observe that speed, being defined as the numerical magnitude of the vector quantity velocity, does not have a material manifestation. Thus I fail to see how any of the five uses of the word lightening could possibly be applied to the concept of the speed of an entity’s reaction to much of anything.

    Could it possibly be the case that the good Sister is not a native speaker of English? Alas, I can think of no other potential explanation.

    ;-)

    Pax et bonum,
    Keith Töpfer

  45. Martial Artist says:

    As to the comments on the NCReporter, to say that it is a rag (excepting the reporting of Mr. John Allen) is egregiously to defame all recycled and repurposed scraps of cloth.

    Pax et bonum,
    Keith Töpfer

  46. benedetta says:

    Jayna, That’s interesting. I see no downside whatsoever for those described as “brave enough”. With the exception of a few blogs generally their cause is celebrated in certain Catholic media and in Catholic higher ed/academia. To me, their credentials as authentic feminists are immediately called into question when they get singled out for special praise as ultra holy members of the very same Church that the nytimes loves to hate. If they are Catholics and members of the one holy Church first and women priest desiring, well, second (?) then I should think they would decline such attention in solidarity with the average Catholic woman whom the times regularly mocks, stereotypes, disparages and demonizes. If it were me I would not want to lend publicity for my ’cause’ to an organization that wishes the demise of faith, just for the sport of it. At this rate, when they become women-priests because the media has mercilessly demanded and exacted it, however only after the media finally finishes off the Church for good, when they come out with the stoles over their vestments to finally celebrate Mass, well, there won’t be anyone around remaining in the pews, shamed and shooed away for good by the likes of the times…or, well a few special parishes will still have ceremonies, having received the blessing of the times and on certain privileged campuses…At any rate if there is no consensus to protect the sanctity of human life in this country there is not going to be really any other consensus to be discovered on this issue. If we put this one up for a vote then we ought to put some other things up as well and see how it goes.

  47. benedetta says:

    Letting our Catholic consciences be formed according to the desires of the nytimes would be like me taking decorating advice for my home from someone who breaks into my house. It’s not the first time that the times thinks its role with respect to one religion is to set dogma and articulate the magisterium. As imperfect and human as the Pope and Bishops may in fact be, all things considered I’ll go with the two thousand years, thanks, as for my vote. Fascinating how predictably the times harps on Catholics only but wouldn’t dare to assert they know better than the average believer for other faiths or Christian denomination. But true also that the average believer in other faith or denomination doesn’t set their watch by the emanations from the times as to what to think. All I can say as a woman is, if they don’t acknowledge that the culture of death is vicious in its intent and effects towards women from the get-go, they care not a whit about these women who believe they should agitate for priesthood for themselves in this moment beyond the mileage they can get for building up caricature and derogatory stereotype towards average Catholics, around the world. They commend these women so long as it suits their overall agenda which is to engender animus towards persons of faith and not one second longer.

  48. Banjo pickin girl says:

    I’m sure it’s a typo and meant “lightning.”

  49. TNCath says:

    As erroneous and convoluted Sister Maureen’s diatribe is, I think we need to keep her comments in perspective. Permit me to quote from that great philosopher, Tripper Harrison (played by Bill Murray), in the classic movie Meatballs: “IT JUST DOESN’T MATTER! IT JUST DOESN’T MATTER! IT JUST DOESN’T MATTER!”

    She can give her viewpoint all she wants, but, as we have said on this blog many times, the Truth is never wrong.

  50. Daniel Latinus says:

    This is one time Rome really got it right.

    If a bishop, otherwise in undisputed canonical good standing, were to attempt to ordain a woman to the priesthood, and were to allow this person to freely function as a priest, the confusion among Catholic layfolk would be monumental, and the Church would have to take herculean steps to restore order. I have a feeling the hierarchy instinctively realizes this, perhaps without fully understanding it, and reacts accordingly.

    A lot of typical Catholic layfolk do not understand why women can’t be ordained. When I explain the issue is not whether women should be ordained, but whether women can be ordained, the reactions I get are glazed eyes and incomprehension, or “but the Episcopalians ordain women, and they’re close to us”.

    I shudder to think what would have happened if a Weakland, or a Hunthausen had attempted to ordain women, especially when they were active bishops.

  51. TNCath says:

    Daniel Latinus said, “I shudder to think what would have happened if a Weakland, or a Hunthausen had attempted to ordain women, especially when they were active bishops.”

    Do keep in mind that Weakland and Hunthausen, although retired, are alive and well and still bishops. Nothing would surprise me at this point. Nonetheless, the “ordinations” would be invalid and Archbishops Weakland’s and Hunthausen’s faculties removed.

  52. What I just don’t understand is what these women don’t understand. What about the fact that it is impossible for women to be ordained do they not get?!?!
    WOMEN CANNOT BE ORDAINED!!
    It is not a matter of opinion, fear, prejudice, Vatican Policy, Traddy “Ultra-Right” philosophy, or anything else they might come up with. It is simply not possible. We have the wrong DNA. Men cannot be mothers, we cannot be Priests. It is as simple and black and white as that.

    There is so much beauty in embracing our femininity and living a truly authentic Catholic life as a woman that it is just mind boggling to me why any woman would even want to be a Priest. As someone who works with chronically mentally ill adults, I cannot help but read signs of mental illness in their writings. They are all out of touch with reality and that equals mental illness. They are fighting for something that never will happen. If they spent half of the time and energy praying for Priests that they spend on fighting a losing battle, this world would be a much better place.

    It may be wrong or uncharitable, but these women make me laugh at them. It’s such a pathetic life they live, fighting for something that will never happen. Poor, poor, deluded women.
    They also make me pray for them. Where there’s life there’s hope right?
    Catherine

  53. off2 says:

    Phillip says: 12 August 2011 at 5:11 pm [...] more than anything else, she needs our prayers.

    Yes, she needs our prayers. But, more than anything else, she needs to repent.

    Would you want to appear at your “exit interview” with our Lord in her state? Lord, have mercy.

  54. jules1 says:

    Sr Fielder obviously has not read much of what really transpired between the Vatican and retried Bishop Morris. Lightening speed??? lol Bishop Morris kept stalling the inevitable for over 5 years . What patience the pope has!!
    The good sister should prepare her self spiritually and mentally for more dismissals and replacements in leftist circles.

  55. Maria says:

    This all makes me feel sad.
    Holy Church is under fire with all the fiery darts that can be mustered and I believe, just as the world is falling into worse trouble, so will The Church, simply because she is integrated with false Catholics as well as genuine ones. In between, the weak are being buffetted around like a ship in a storm and I thank The Lord for His story of The Storm which He calms and gets Peter the man, the mortal, to walk over to Him safely.
    However, we need to battle on with prayer (with St, Michaels’ intercession) and pray for Our Holy Church and all Priests constantly.
    I believe in my heart it can never happen, (because Our Lord said that the gates of hell will NOT prevail against her) but if women are ever ceremoniously ‘ordained’ I would be sorely tempted to rejoin The Baptist Church of my past because one of the reasons I became Catholic was because of the Transubstantiated Eucharist which has been changed into The Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ by Priests in The Apostolic succession of St. Peter; in obedience to The Institution of The Eucharist given by Our Lord Jesus Himself, and by no other.
    Even The Blessed Virgin Mary who is the Highest of all women who ever lived, and always will be, dared not override Her Lord and insult Him in this way.
    Even at Cana, she beautifully and humbly displayed that she did not claim equality with Him.
    Her submission was as magnified as her soul on the very first moment she said “Yes” at her Fiat.
    She humbly took the role of Servant and Mother in obedience and devotion.
    She loved and respected Him and indeed herself and her neighbours far too much to disobey Him or put the world at risk in this disgusting and insulting way.
    +Oh Holy Fiat! Beautiful, beautiful and faithful Mary, pray for us all.
    Your example to all women indeed shines like the bright Morning Star.
    Queen of Heaven, thank you for being you from the start, and thank you Lord Jesus, for choosing one woman to be the perfect example to all women throughout the world.+

  56. Seamas O Dalaigh says:

    Father,

    “Lightning speed”? Would that it were so. It took 13 years for “the Vatican” (in this case the CDWDS, the the Congregation for Bishops, CDF and finally our Holy Father himself) to do something about that silly fellow in Toowoomba. And it wasn’t just for heresy (though as you point out that would suffice) so much as liturgical abuses. It is reported that he was “concelebrating” with nuns and other lay people. (Remember, hatred of the Blerssed Sacrament is the very heart of all heresy.)

    During all the long years of this horror can you imagine how many vocations to the priesthood there were in Toowoomba? Just one (and he was a late vocation). It will be a long time before the damage is healed.