Michael Voris on attacks on Francis and Benedict

Michael Voris has some good things to say about the negative reactions to Pope Francis.

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Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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61 Responses to Michael Voris on attacks on Francis and Benedict

  1. bmadamsberry says:

    I rarely agree with Voris, with how he says things and with what he says. But I totally agree here. Thank you for posting this, Father.

  2. Scott W. says:

    Yes. MV is a bomb thrower and often the shrapnel causes gratuitous collateral damage, but he is one of the good guys.

  3. catholicmidwest says:

    He’s trying to do the right thing. I agree that we shouldn’t be throwing grenades at the Pope. We’ve got enough problems without turning on our own. We need to identify what our real problems are and deal with them; and stop attacking things, and people, that aren’t our real problems.

  4. Johnno says:

    bmadamsberry

    I’m curious now. What is it you don’t agree with MV about? Practically everything he has spoken of has been solid and up front without any of that wretched feely politically correct cowardice that typifies a good number of Catholics.

  5. Catholictothecore says:

    “Work on your own holiness.” Couldn’t have said it better.

    I’m going to join Masked Chicken and Supertradmum hibernating from the blogsphere for the next little while. It’s Holy Week next week and it would do us all some good to tone down the rhetoric regarding Pope Francis and Benedict XVI.

  6. boxerpaws1952 says:

    Comment from Facebook “” I as a Methodist pastor envy cardinals of the Roman Church who has chosen Pope Francis. It was a right decision. God Bless Pope Francis !”

  7. catholicmidwest says:

    “15 But if you bite and devour one another take heed that you are not consumed by one another.”

    RSV-Catholic Edition
    St. Paul, Galatians 5:15

  8. BLB Oregon says:

    Well-said. Of all the many important things the Pope does and is, what is most essential about the Pope cannot fail, but careless words can be used to mislead people away from that. I agree, too, that the diabolical machinations Voris so bluntly refers to can use people in ways they had no intention of being used, if only they can be made careless about considering the effects of their actions fully. No one has to be the evil one in order to be found useful by the evil one.

  9. VexillaRegis says:

    Well said, Mr Voris!

  10. Peter in Canberra says:

    So, their is a very clear difference in ‘style’. Hermeneutic of rupture, playing into the hands of the media.

  11. Allan S. says:

    Make no mistake, however; if the Holy Father were to join others prelates who have gone “off the rails”, Voris – ever a servant of the truth – will say so in his normal fashion.

    He is merely, and rightly, giving the Holy Father some space and time. While he may not be joining the pile-on, he will lead an entirely new knew if required.

    Michael Voris is another holy “Co-operator in the Truth” who has no time for the “charity trumps truth” ilk.

    He will not be silent if truth beckons….

  12. teomatteo says:

    I rarely disagree with Voris and I don’t this time either. I think he is spot on. Has the media ‘spun’ the tag on our Pope Francis : ‘transitional pope’? They did very rapidly with Pope Benedict. Ok, so he is a couple of years younger than Joseph Ratzinger was at his election but Pope Francis is no… er… spring chicken (with all due respect to the Masked Chicken).
    My fathers told me many years ago when he heard his offspring go’en gaga over some celebrity: “I wouldn’t cross a street to meet anyone that I wouldn’t have them meet me half way…except the Pope!”
    What Michael is saying reminds me of a quote that I can find no confirmation. From St. Bernadette when her convent was becoming a possible threat from the advancing German army (?). ‘Are you worried about the advancing army?’ She was asked. He reply was “the only people that scare me are other Catholics”.
    I wish I could find confirmation for that one….

  13. Cosmos says:

    Right on.

    It made me think of the argument between the Peter and Paul over the “Judaizers.” There were doctrinal/pastoral squabbles from day 1!

  14. mamajen says:

    That was excellent. Thank you for sharing.

  15. Legisperitus says:

    Good points. He might have more precisely said the Pope cannot define error. (It seems likely that a Pope like Honorius I would have preached error at some times.)

  16. LarryW2LJ says:

    MSM = Tool of the Diabolical

    Amen!

  17. The Masked Chicken says:

    “I’m going to join Masked Chicken and Supertradmum hibernating from the blogsphere for the next little while.”

    Slowly he walked into the saloon, spurs klinking…

    Clump, clump, clump…

    Barkeep, I’ll have a pint of sarsaparilla…

    Now, hold on there, pardna’…Ah never said to leave the blogosphere. Ah said,

    “Since no one, here, can really do anything except make comments, sometimes, I think it might be nice to just hibernate until June and let things settle into whatever they will. Beginnings can often be chaotic until a steady-state is achieved.”

    Makin’ comments on stuff that ain’t even as long as a puppy is like riding a stationary bicycle – it makes you feel good, but ya don’t get nowhere. There are plenty of other Catholic topics that are needing comments on where’s ya’ll can do some good. You don’t like the Pope’s shoes? You gonna tell ‘em? I ain’t. I don’t need no Buenos Aires boppin’ from a Pope I hardly know. Ya’ll are judgin’ the tone and ya ain’t even gotten to the first chorus. The Pope just jumped on the bed. It’s still bouncing up and down. Wait until it settles down until ya decide you don’t like the mattress.

    Hibernate for a few months. The cake just got put n the oven an’ ya’ll worried that it might be spoiled? Look at the cake after it finishes bakin’. That’s all I’m saying. How about hibernatin’ until the first encyclical or June, whichever comes first. Ya’ll are trying to detect the way the wind is blowin’, but I gotta quote the Detective, that Holmes fella -”Data, data, data. I cannot make bricks without straw.” Ya’ll are tryin’ to do what the Israelites had to do as punishment – make bricks without straw. The Pope is not a punishment. The Pope is a mystery. Turn the page, eh? That’s all I’m askin’. One measly page turn before ya go all Gunfight at the OK Coral on ‘em.

    Thanks for the drink. Ya can keep the change.

    The Chicken

  18. The Masked Chicken says:

    When St. John Vianney was asked by some priests why their churches were losing members, he asked them, point blank, “Have you fasted for them? Have you prayed all night? Have you done penances?” Liza Doolittle was fond of saying,

    “Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
    I get words all day through;
    First from him, now from you! Is that all you blighters can do?
    Don’t talk of stars Burning above; If you’re in love,
    Show me! Tell me no dreams
    Filled with desire. If you’re on fire,
    Show me!”

    [source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/m/myfairladylyrics/showmelyrics.html

    If, for every criticism of the Pope you wished to make online, you were to pay for the privilege by first performing an act of real charity for someone in secret (for you cannot be certain that the comment you planned on making is such), then we would have a holier Church and a lot more gentle comments. I have not earned the privilege to speak about what I think the Pope should or should not do. I have not learned the art of saying the right thing at the right time. That is a gift that comes only after you have learned to die to self and the best start for that is humility, detachment, and charity. You would like to accuse the Pope of not being humble, but I rarely see humility in words from the commenters talking about him. You want to argue about his poverty, but you do it in magnificent words strewn about by the bushel-full. You want to argue about his dress, but you forget to first dress yourselves in a garment of mercy instead of a judges robe. Which is easier – to be Christ or Pilate? That’s a worthy meditation for Holy Week, don’t you think?

    The Chicken

    The Chicken

  19. Anabela says:

    Perhaps the same should go for our Cardinals and Bishops as well. They don’t need criticism either. We should pray for all of them. We need to pray more now for our Church which is heading into more stormy waters and spread the Divine Mercy devotion, which was given to the Lord for these times. The Divine Mercy Sunday will be held on 7th April 2013. A Plenary Indulgence is granted that day by the Church. We need it so much in these days.

    Our Lady said to St. Faustina, ‘You have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy. (Diary 635).’

    Remember this Devotion is fully approved by the Church. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI said to Priests in Fatima and invoked the Blessed Virgin Mary ‘Guided by you, we want to be Apostles of Divine Mercy, glad to celebrate every day the Holy Sacrifice of the Altar and to offer to those who request it the sacrament of Reconciliation.

  20. StWinefride says:

    The French “Forum Catholique” closes down every year during Holy Week. A wise decision and even more appropriate this year!

  21. Joseph-Mary says:

    Michael is one of our present champions of the faith! He gives himself totally to the efforts to evangelize. And he is persecuted for it which shows even more that he is on the right track. How many martyrs were killed for being sweet and nice and tolerant and compromising? They were and are not. They speak the truth with love, but the hard truths nonetheless. What he said about the media spinning the difference in style of our two holy Popes is right on for what the goal is to denigrate the substance and truth of their teachings. Pope Emeritus Benedict is a future saint and perhaps doctor of the Church. He has left big shoes to fill. Our new Holy Father needs all our prayers to navigate the murky waters of our culture of death. Let us pray and fast especially in this time leading up to Easter.

  22. netokor says:

    Voris is my hero. He is no coward and is 100% faithful. I am grateful for his work and dedication If the majority of Catholics were like him we wouldn’t be living under this poisonous obama regime and his corrupt media.

  23. Nancy D. says:

    The Holy Father stated in February, that to deny God, is to deny the inherent Dignity of the human person, and I would add, vice versa. At this hour, it is late. Until The Vatican instructs those who deny the Sanctity of human life from the moment of conception, and those who deny The Sanctity of Marriage and The Family, to not present themselves for Holy Communion, the healing cannot begin. When one denies the personal and relational essence of the human person created in The Image and Likeness of God, equal in Dignity, while being complementary as male and female, one in essence, denies God and becomes an apostate to our Catholic Faith
    “Whoever eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks judgement upon himself.”

  24. Nancy D. says:

    That being said, who is responsible for the error on page 20 of The Inauguration Bulletin that states The Spirit of Truth, Who proceeds from The Father? There is only One Spirit of Perfect Love Between The Father and The Son, which is why the denial of The Filioque, is the source of all heresy.

  25. dbwheeler says:

    I hope that everyone who agrees with Mr. Voris is also contributing to his efforts (as well as this site)
    for it seems like so many of these wonderful resources are really suffering financially. If you’re at all able to do so, please donate something to lifesite news,as well… one of the most authentic and truthful news sources available to faithful Catholics. It is so true that where your treasure is there your heart is also. I have said all I’m going to say on our new pope. It’s not in our hands and any qualms some of us may suffer should most properly be addressed to our Heavenly Father…the last thing I want to do is cause unhappiness to anyone! I just wish I weren’t intuitive and so often have had those deeply experienced perceptions come to fruition. I truly hope we experience the new spring that our beloved Pope Benedict emeritus predicted! And it wouldn’t hurt to pray St.Michael’s prayer that Satan be bound and God’s Will be done ___everyday!

  26. rhetor says:

    Thanks for sharing this. The only quibble I have with Voris here only serves to bolster his larger point: Benedict and Francis don’t even speak different languages. Although the MSM likes to contrast the Spanish-speaking Francis with the German Benedict, Benedict actually speaks Spanish, although it isn’t his strongest language.

  27. frjim4321 says:

    Thank you for the link but I promised myself quite a while ago that this man is not worthy of any more of my time. [And yet here you are commenting on him!] I’ve had the opportunity to review his worth thoroughly enough and (particularly in view the parish schedule these days) won’t spare him another second. My impression of him is that of a very distasteful person, and I doubt that the clip above would do much to change my impression.

    What is most dangerous about Voris, Bentkovic and their ilk is that they do not clearly distinguish between church teaching and their own opinion or commentary. The parish demographic here is fairly sophisticated and well-educated, thus I don’t think MV or WOG get much airplay around these parts. Thus the need for me to provide correctives is not very critical.

  28. inexcels says:

    Scott W.: “MV is a bomb thrower and often the shrapnel causes gratuitous collateral damage, but he is one of the good guys.”

    This description made me smile. Thanks for that.

  29. StWinefride says:

    frjim4321 says: “The parish demographic here is fairly sophisticated and well-educated, thus I don’t think MV or WOG get much airplay around these parts”.

    At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to infants”.

    Matthew 11:25

  30. inexcels says:

    frjim: “The parish demographic here is fairly sophisticated and well-educated, thus I don’t think MV or WOG get much airplay around these parts. Thus the need for me to provide correctives is not very critical.”

    I was going to pass this over, but I’ve changed my mind. The not-very-subtle implication that anyone who likes Voris is some kind of ignorant troglodyte is kind of insulting, don’t you think?

    I’ve really come to detest the word “sophisticated.” It’s become an inverted insult, just code speak for “our guys are smarter than yours.”

  31. JonPatrick says:

    rhetor – and I believe Pope Francis speaks German!

  32. Gus Barbarigo says:

    @Nancy D.

    This filioque point sounds very important; it would be great to get more context on the choice of words in the bulletin. Have such “mistakes” been made in other recent papal documents?

  33. Mary Jane says:

    frjim4321, it’s very obvious when watching MV what is his own opinion and what is Church teaching. If it’s not obvious to you, well…perhaps you need to watch more of his videos.

    Excellent video, Fr Z. Thanks for sharing.

  34. JacobWall says:

    Awesome! I was considering attending this gala dinner, which is 20 minutes away from my home. I was hesitating because $70 is a lot of money for me. However, seeing this video has shifted me in favour of going – I’d say I’m about 90% right now.

    Has anyone heard Michael Voris in person? Is his work on MilitantChurch worth my $70? I should go watch more of what he has. Any comments about this dinner and talk would be appreciated.

  35. Lepidus says:

    @ Gus Barbarigo – Now that you mention it, another one was pointed out I believe right here in Fr. Z’s blog – or at least the comments. I believe it was the Holy See Press Office talking about the Mass of the Lord’s Supper and the Pope doing it at a youth prison. The glaring error was that they said that the Mass (Holy Thursday) is “characterized by … the washing of the feet”. It was pointed out that you can’t really characterize the whole Mass by an rite that is optional.

  36. onosurf says:

    “Yes, this pope is what the church needed, a new pentecost is coming!” – NCR, Mahoney, et al

    “Let’s reserve judgement and focus on personal holiness.” MV, the Remnant, Fr. Z

    I think that about says it all. Focusing on personal holiness and accepting God’s will, I love it. Reserving judgement: many aren’t being honest with themselves and this is shown in the bigotry of very low expectations.

  37. acricketchirps says:

    frjim4321: What is most dangerous about Voris, Bentkovic and their ilk is that they do not…

    Man! I wish I had a ilk.

  38. JacobWall says:

    @Nancy D. & Gus Barbarigo,

    I am no expert on the issue, but I believe it’s only the *denial* of the filioque that’s the problem, not simply the omission of it. It is perfectly fine and correct to say that “the Spirit proceeds from the Father” so long as you don’t actually deny the validity of the Filioque.

    From my understanding, the Council of Florence asserted that the Filioque is correct, but it also indicated that the theological traditions of the East must be respected, which describe the same process by saying “from the Father and through the Son” although these words are not included in their version of the Creed. The Church allows for the Creed to be said without the filioque when it is said in Greek or in the other languages of the Eastern Churches. I’m not sure about this, but I believe that Eastern Catholics do not say the Filioque in the Creed; however, they do not deny its validity. As the CCC says, “This legitimate complementarity, provided it does not become rigid, does not affect the identity of faith in the reality of the same mystery confessed.” (http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p2.htm#246)

    Finally, this prayer to which you refer is not the Creed (“Imposition of the Pallium” p 20.) I don’t know anything about that prayer, but I assume, since it’s not the Creed, there is no obligation to include the Filioque. In Latin and in the Western context, if I understand correctly, the Creed MUST include the Filioque, and in the bulletin it does (look at p 54.) It is the complete Latin version of the Nicene Crede, with the Filioque.

  39. eiggam says:

    Michael Voris spoke in our town for a charity fundraiser. He is a passionate person and appears a bit rough around the edges, but I think he is genuine in his concern for the Church and has sacrificed personally to do so. He was a well paid newscaster prior to his Internet work.

  40. LarryW2LJ says:

    eiggam

    “a bit rough around the edges” – perfect way to describe me – I think I’d like Mr. Voris all the more, now.

  41. Nancy D. says:

    Gus, The Filioque is missing in Dominus Iesus, but perhaps it was simply lost in translation. In this case, during The Imposition of the Pallium, the statement, “May The Spirit of Truth, Who proceeds from The Father” was made, making it appear as if The Spirit of Truth does not necessarily proceed from both The Father and The Son, has lead to many errors, including the error in Nostra Aetate, that led Pope Francis to state, “the Moslems, who worship the one God, living and merciful, and call upon Him in Prayer”. The Moslems do not worship The Blessed Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the God of our Salvation, Who desires we overcome our disordered inclinations, including our disordered sexual inclinations, so that we are not lead into deception, but rather sin no more. (See Commandments One and Two) There Is No Salvation outside The Body of Christ, Christ’s One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, although there are some, like The Good Thief, and the Centurion, who will come late to The Fold.
    “No one can come to The Father except through Me.” – Jesus The Christ

  42. Johnno says:

    That’s funny frjim4321. We all here often feel the same way in that we shouldn’t waste our time commenting on certain other posters, but then we are reminded that in charity we must. But you know, as you are a self-descibed more enlightened individual who must lead his already enlightened flock, perhaps out of duty you ought to make it a point to clearly demonstrate where Voris errs and what is his opinion and what are Church teachings? I would pay to see you in a debate with him.

    And speaking of paying. If anyone wants to support Michael Voris, subscribe to the Premium Membership of Churchmilitant.tv. $10 a month. I began this year. Lots of amazing stuff to learn just when you thought you’d learnt it all : P. Maybe in charity we should get frjim4321 a subscription.

  43. Nancy D. says:

    Thank you Jacob, for the link.

  44. Nancy D. says:

    Oops, that should read, so that we are not led into temptation, but rather, sin no more.

  45. Pingback: Peter and Andrew: Brother Pilgrims to Jerusalem - Big Pulpit

  46. Juergensen says:

    Too bad Voris didn’t address the attacks on the Pope from “traditionalists”. Ahem.

  47. Father J says:

    I’m thinking that the “Spirit of Truth, Who proceeds from the Father” is simply a reference of St. John’s Gospel 15:26.

  48. Gaetano says:

    The prayer in question comes from the prayer for the Imposition of the Pallium. Perhaps Fr. Z could comment on the history of the prayer.

    Of course, those familiar with worship in the Eastern Catholic Churches would not expect the filioque to be used, and omission does not imply denial.

  49. netokor says:

    frjim4321, you write: 1. “My impression of him is that of a very distasteful person” and 2.”What is most dangerous about Voris, Bentkovic and their ilk is that they do not clearly distinguish between church teaching and their own opinion or commentary.”

    1. Voris is a man, not a sissy. Was Jesus distasteful when he confronted the Pharisees calling them sons of the devil? When he overturned the tables of the money changers?
    2. That is false. Voris fights-yes, fights- for the truths of our Catholic Faith.

    If all of our priests and bishops had been like him these last 2 decades, we wouldn’t be scandalized by all the Cuomos, Pelosis and Bidens of our tasteful Catholic world.

    God love you too, Michael Voris.

  50. Katylamb says:

    “Too bad Voris didn’t address the attacks on the Pope from “traditionalists”. Ahem.”

    It seems to me he tactfully warns traditionalists and others that what they say will be used by the msm. I guess he is just more kind when criticizing the people who are basically on his “side” than many of the traditionalists themselves are, and doesn’t want to speak harshly of them. I wish some of them would follow his example.

  51. Michael Voris is always refreshing.

  52. kneeler says:

    I usually utter “Voris …” the same way I utter “Italians …” and the same way Jerry Seinfeld utters “Newman …”. However I also occasionally agree with him.

  53. The only thing Voris could have done better was name names. There’s no secret who the progressives are with this issue. As far as the traditionalists go, many of us know the real culprit but won’t say it out loud, and it’s high time somebody called them out on it. It’s not detraction when the offender has had time and opportunity to reconsider, and remains dug in, especially when the offense is public.

    I usually don’t give Voris credit for being original. With this installment, I stand corrected.

  54. Scarltherr says:

    “Ignorant troglodyte” and “I wish I had an ilk.”
    Those are the two best phrases of the day!!! MV is generally right on the money, but I still don’t like his hair. Father Jim, does that mean I have an ilk?

  55. JARay says:

    This was a splendid video. I have always enjoyed and respected Michael Voris. His view of the Church seems to resonate with mine.
    Thank you to Nancy D.
    I did not know about the skipping of the filioque. This has separated us from the Orthodox for years and probably will do so until we actually see the reality once we are in heaven. I have tried for years to get some people to see that it is the love of the Father for the Son, and the love of the Son for the Father which, as it were, coalesces into the third person; namely the Holy Spirit. He “proceeds” from the Father and the Son., exactly as the Nicene Creed proclaims. And it is this same Holy Spirit who came in His power upon the Virgin Mary so that she might conceive Jesus.

  56. AA Cunningham says:

    frjim4321 says:
    22 March 2013 at 9:00 am

    “I promised myself quite a while ago that this man is not worthy of any more of my time. ”

    I’ve said the same about you and your bus riding ilk; the bourgeois bohemians aka Bobos.

    The only beef I have with Michael Voris is that he needs to invest in a comb and use it on a regular basis.

  57. Nancy D. says:

    Father J, to specify that The Spirit of Truth proceeds from only The Father and not include The Son, implies that The Spirit of Truth is not in The Son, thus recycling the Arian Heresy, that Christ is not Divine.

  58. The Masked Chicken says:

    “Father J, to specify that The Spirit of Truth proceeds from only The Father and not include The Son, implies that The Spirit of Truth is not in The Son, thus recycling the Arian Heresy, that Christ is not Divine.”

    Not necessarily. If both the Son and the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father, then they could both be divine, but the Holy Spirit would not proceed from both the Father and the Son. It is a heresy because it destroys the divine perichoresis and makes the Son and Holy Spirit lesser forms of God.

    The Chicken

  59. Bruce says:

    Frjim4321,
    I can clearly distinguish between Church teaching and Voris or anyone elses personal opinions. I have accomplished this after only 7 years in the Catholic Church . If you and your sophisticated friends find this difficult or dangerous I have a few books to recommend.

    Bruce

  60. Nancy D. says:

    There can be only one Spirit of Love between The Father and The Son in the ordered, complementary, communion of Perfect Love that is The Blessed Trinity.

  61. Blaine says:

    Agreed with Johnno above. Subscribe as a premium member to ChurchMilitant.tv and watch the videos. I’ve really enjoyed the St. Michael’s Basic Training to start. It alone is worth the ten dollars a month.