A Catholic university denies student K of C group because it’s… for Catholics

On the side bar of this blog I have a feed for the Cardinal Newman Society.  They posted a story…

Gonzaga Denies Knights of Columbus Student Group Because it’s Catholic

Spokane’s Gonzaga University [Jesuit run Catholic school] has denied a Knights of Columbus group application to be recognized as an official student organization. Those seeking the status were notified of the University’s decision at a meeting on March 7.

The group was notified of the decision by Dean of Students Kassi Kain and Assistant Director for Student Activities Dave Rovick.

“The Knights of Columbus, by their very nature, is a men’s organization in which only Catholics may participate via membership,” says a letter obtained by The Cardinal Newman Society written by Sue Weitz, Vice President for Student Life. “These criteria are inconsistent with the policy and practice of student organization recognition at Gonzaga University, as well as the University’s commitment to non-discrimination based on certain characteristics, one of which is religion.”

[...]

Let me get this straight.  Because the Knights of Columbus is a Catholic group for Catholics, the Catholic university won’t let them be on their Catholic campus for the Catholics who want to join?

I hope they are able to resolve this amicably.

Read the rest there.

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83 Responses to A Catholic university denies student K of C group because it’s… for Catholics

  1. mamajen says:

    *facepalm*

  2. M. K. says:

    I’m sad to say that I’m not terribly surprised by this. When I was an undergraduate at a Catholic university in the 1990s, I was a member of that university’s college council of the Knights of Columbus. We had to contend with frequent grumbling from l0wer-level staff in student life – and also in campus ministry, which fell under the student life umbrella – who wondered aloud about why the K of C was allowed to operate at the university and even to receive university funding when our policies excluded women and non-Catholics from being members. Thankfully, there were always more sensible people higher up in the administration who approved of our work and ensured that the K of C retained its university sponsorship and support. However, it always struck me that we could easily have lost our position if some of the student life people who complained about us ended up in charge – that has not happened at my alma mater, but the Gonzaga case suggests that it certainly could happen.

  3. persyn says:

    My alma mater. I know (many of) these people in real life. I’m praying for them. Catholic identity is gone from there to such a significant extent that you might just as well consider it a private secular school. They don’t even have a Jesuit President anymore. Kyrie, eleison.

  4. lucaslaroche says:

    The College of the Holy Cross has been giving their KofC group similar problems.

  5. everett says:

    My poor alma mater. Was’t great while Fr. Spitzer was there, but he did the best he could. Been all downhill since he was run out.

  6. Ceile De says:

    Let me see if I have got this right. Gonzaga will not recognise any all male all Catholic group? So it therefore follows that it cannot recognise the Jesuits. Which makes sense, as they have become unrecognisable to me too.

  7. Johnno says:

    They should ban all sports events/teams/groups that don’t have men and women on the same team and that also discriminate against the unfit and the handicapped. In fact, if the ratio between men and women and ‘undecided’ in the college is not exactly 1/3 by 1/3 by 1/3, they ought to just close up shop.

  8. rtjl says:

    Sounds like Catholic parents should not be sending their Catholic children to this not so Catholic university paying tuitions with their own hard earned Catholic money.

  9. ocalatrad says:

    Father, you’re absolutely right. It makes perfect sense for a Catholic school to bar a Catholic organization for Catholics only from being a part of the Catholic university community. Oh, wait…

    [Cue Twilight Zone music]

  10. LarryW2LJ says:

    Looks like it’s time to head out to Spokane decked out in full 4th Degree regalia. Let me shine up my sword, first.

  11. frjim4321 says:

    I never thought about the exclusion of women and members of other-than-Catholic churches as being a reason to not invite the KoC from the parish here. For me the first concern is the weapons-in-church thing. The show stopper for me is in my personal opinion that Carl Anderson has taken the organization in a markedly partisan direction. It is well known that he is a partisan operative, having worked in the White House working for republican presidents. I’ve heard enough of him to come to a the belief that he is turning the KoC into a stealth arm of the RNC. So in the interest of preserving our tax-exempt status, I’m not inclined to give a home to a partisan organization.

  12. Marcello says:

    The inmates are running the asylum. Beam me up, Scotty, no sign of intelligent life in Spokane!

  13. Tradster says:

    Of course, liberal political correctness demands that exclusionary discrimination is always a one-way street. All the women-only, black-only, homosexual-only, etc., etc. groups are enthusiastically welcomed and considered perfectly legitimate.

    Jesuits: the male version of the LCWR.

  14. pseudomodo says:

    Catholic Bishop revokes ‘Catholic’ status of ‘catholic’ university for being considerably less than Catholic.

    Now that’s a headline I want to see…

  15. Will D. says:

    For universities, money talks. The alumni should call or write the president of the university and discuss with him their donation plans in light of this decision.

    And Fr. Jim, you crack me up. If the K of C are a “stealth arm of the RNC,” it’s largely because the other party has made it crystal clear that observant Catholics are wholly unwelcome.

  16. MikeM says:

    That kind of interpretation of non-discrimination sucks for everyone. If they’re concerned about “equality” (and I’m not convinced they need to be), they could let people of other religions have their own clubs, too.

    On a vaguely related note, have you guys followed the developments with the pro-life student group at Johns Hopkins? They were denied student group status by the student government association because the SGA deemed that sidewalk counseling was harassment, as was standing on campus with a fetal development model. The case is still working its way through the university’s appeals process, so I wouldn’t jump on the university’s case too quickly, but what’s going on with the world when people think that standing passively with a three inch rubber doll is harassment?

  17. BLB Oregon says:

    So ROTC can recruit, but not convents or monasteries, I suppose…

  18. Dr. Edward Peters says:

    I wonder why Gonzaga allows Jesuit organizations to meet on campus… Don’t you have to be Catholic to be a Jesuit?

  19. Mari Kate says:

    this just puts my hair on fire!

  20. BLB Oregon says:

    Do they allow fraternities and sororities? I know a woman can’t become a Phi Delt.

  21. Cantor says:

    They’re going about this all the wrong way. Start an intramural sports team which, according to the Gonzaga Intramural Handbook

    (http://www.gonzaga.edu/Files/Athletics/Intramurals/GonzagaUniversityIntramuralHandbook2011-2012.pdf)

    can be co-ed, all-men’s or all-women’s. Fencing might be nice. A few years of training, make 4th degree, and get your sword!

  22. When I was Grand Knight of the K of C about ten years ago at Saint Louis University (also Jesuit run) we faced similar opposition. We had just been refounded a few years earlier, and wanted to start receiving student group funds for the events we wanted to put together. Unlike Gonzaga, the student government at SLU decides whether or not to officially charter a student organization. While we did not face the “must be Catholic” rhetoric, we kept hearing “you aren’t open to women.” Luckily, we had enough Knights on Student Government (myself included) to push the effort through with a conditional promise that we would help found an equal organization for women on campus – a Daughters of Isabella Circle. Looking back, I’m surprised we didn’t face opposition for not being open to non-Catholics.

  23. StJude says:

    What planet are we living on? I really dont recognize it anymore.

  24. acardnal says:

    frjim4321, if what you said about Supreme Knight Carl Anderson partisanship was true, Anderson would have revoked the pro-abort “catholic” politicians’ KofC memberships by now. (I’m talking about VP Biden, the late Sen. Kennedy, Sen. Kerry, et al.) But he hasn’t . . . which bothers me.

  25. bookworm says:

    Then I guess it served them right to have Wichita State knock them out of the NCAA tournament…. if Wichita State has any kind of a decent Newman ministry (don’t know if they do, can anyone advise?) they might actually be a “more Catholic” school.

  26. KGH says:

    To me, this is the epitome of diabolical disorientation – when people lack the common sense to recognize that their decisions lack common sense.

  27. LarryW2LJ says:

    frjim4321

    Really? I mean, really?

    So you mean to tell me that all the hours we’ve spent collecting for the mentally challenged – all the time we’ve spent fundraising for ultra sound machines for crisis pregnancy centers, all the time we’ve spent funding scholarships so that high school students can go to these Anti-Catholic, Catholic colleges and universities has been for naught? That’s partisan?

    When the K 0f C was the FIRST organization to funnel money towards victims of 9/11, Katrina and Hurricane Sandy – WITHOUT caring a whit whether or not said victims were Catholic (let alone what their party affiliation was), by the way – that was partisan?

    All the seminarians the K of C funds – is THAT partisan?

    And please, spare me the “weapons in Church” thing – the swords are ceremonial. I’ve seen more people get hurt by a mishandled censer than ever by a K of C sword. I guess that means the actual Knights who fought for the Church during the Crusades wouldn’t have been welcome, either.

  28. MikeM says:

    Bookwork, I did a little googling on the Wichita State Newman Center. It looks pretty good to me. http://catholicshockers.com/

    I don’t know if it was always the case but, in my experiences, these days Newman Centers are among the best places for Catholicism. I think that being in a secular university shows students what’s at stake and leads to pretty vibrant Catholic communities.

  29. acricketchirps says:

    (Larry: better explain what a censer is)

  30. Johnno says:

    frjim4321 -

    O Really? Are the Knights of Columbus in Canada or India stealth arms of the Republican party too? Why not just come out and say, you don’t like it that they don’t support Obama and the Democrats because you do? After all aren’t you just as ‘partisan’? Oh, and a big LOL about the weapons… better watch out when you’re swinging that incense too. It could be like a fiery mace! Actually it’s likely that you probably don’t like those ‘ceremonial’ things and don’t use one anyway… might send the wrong idea to the little children about weapons. Not to worry, they’ll just go home after Sunday Mass and play Call of Duty or Halo on the Xbox anyway.

    You sure it’s you that doesn’t want the Knights in your parish, and that it’s not the other way around, in that it’s actually they who don’t want anything to do with you?

    LarryW2LJ -

    Some people don’t actually care about the ‘good’ that anyone does. The ‘good’ is not the point despite what they claim. It’s only in whose name they are doing it under that matters because that is the end goal, not the good in itself, and in this case it’s apparently not in the name of Obama or any group they are partisan to, so…

    It’s funny how some people can’t think outside of left/right politics. They will politicize everything. I can’t imagine what it must be like to live and dine with these people… This calamari is too right wing. This wine is too left wing. This cookie’s fortune is too left of center in what it advocates of me. It’s like a sick dysfunction that needs to go away.

  31. Clinton R. says:

    Catholic education is in dire straits and has been for quite a while. Catholic K-8 and high schools are becoming out of reach financially for many Catholic families. And what do far too many Catholic schools teach? It sure isn’t the Catholicism of our grand parents and great grand parents. Forget about most “Catholic” colleges and universities. Gonzaga doesn’t want the Knights of Columbus. Georgetown just swore in its first openly homosexual student president. Notre Dame is bending over backwards to please the LBGTQ crowd. And those schools are the norm. Years ago, these institutions of higher learning were founded by religious orders with the goal of educating men and women in the Catholic faith and in the liberal arts. They have long ago apostasized from the Faith. The few authentic Catholic colleges are those who are not concerned with having first rate sports programs and Nobel prize winners. The Catholic faith is first and foremost with schools such as Thomas Aquinas University and Christendom College. And as some have mentioned, the Catholic faith is stronger at non Catholic schools that have beautiful chapels and young men and women who are on fire with the Faith.

  32. disco says:

    Even Harvard has a KofC. Gonzaga is a disgrace to its namesake.

  33. tgarcia2 says:

    My question for the story is this; here at UTEP (The University of Texas at El Paso) I am the DGK for the UTEP Knights and we work with our Newman Center (which I’m the student organization presdent for). We got approval on a VERY liberal, yet Catholic (voting liberal, 80%MX American or MX nationals) school. We had our by laws allow “Associate members” that did NOT attend meetings, but could help in public stuff, etc etc. I wonder how their bylaws were worded since our African-American frat and sorority have included a “all are welcome” section….but it being Gonzaga is even more troubling.

  34. NBW says:

    @frjim4321 – seriously, you think that the K of C is a partisan organization? And you wouldn’t let the K of C in to preserve your tax exempt status? Are there other things you would prefer not to preach from the pulpit in order to maintain your tax exempt status?

  35. frjim4321 says:

    Larry, I know that there are some good things that the KoC does with their massive wealth, but they also do other things with their wealth, including funding the hideously ostentatious liturgies televised from the national basilica. I’ve been through their annual reports, and it easy to see where most of the money is going, including funding various electoral issues.

    There are some groups that do a lot of good things that have fallen into disfavor because of some thing that they MIGHT be involved in (Komen). My feelings about KoC’s “good things” are similar.

  36. Gail F says:

    Celie De should get the gold star of the day!!!!!!

  37. acardnal says:

    KofC also funds all the TV broadcasts from Saint Peters and has funded the refurbishment of the exterior of St. Peters during JPII’s reign. Regarding the “ostentatious” liturgies from the BNSIC, you should bring that to Msgr. Rossi’s attention; he is the responsible authority as rector.

  38. acardnal says:

    KofC also prints all of the materials for the Missionaries of Charity at no cost.

  39. LarryW2LJ says:

    frjim4321,

    If the K of C is a partisan organization for standing up for the Catholic Church and all the clergy, the Culture of Life, the poor, disabled, the disadvantaged, mothers, children and orphans, our military men and women – then so be it.

    I would much rather be a member of that partisan organization than be a non-partisan who stands for nothing …….. or worse.

  40. frjim4321 says:

    Hey, so we disagree, it’s okay. I have a couple good friends who belong and a couple who wouldn’t touch them with a ten foot pole. I’m not a fan. There is no obligation binding upon Catholics to be supporters of the KoC. I find Anderson’s politics very disturbing, and my suspicion that he’s compromised the KoC is very strong. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me.

  41. thomas tucker says:

    Dear Dr. Peters,
    No.
    Sincerely,
    TT

  42. jhnewman says:

    Fr Jim is just concerned that the Knights in their capes and swords should have sold their capes so the other members of his congregation could have swords too. ;)

  43. Allan S. says:

    Two swords was enough for Jesus so it should be good enough for the Jesuits!

    Fr. Jim – I thought lay organizations were specifically encouraged so that laity could engage with the secular state on policy issues, as Catholics, in a way that the Church proper (i.e. clerics) could not. So, if a bunch of Catholic men are politically active on issues that align with Church teaching (or at least don’t oppose it) then what possible issue could a priest have with laity doing just that??

    A far bigger issue is Catholic laity engaged in lay activities that oppose Church teachings. Gee..I wonder how many (Catholic) student associations are involved in THOSE kinds of activities, hmmm? And how much do you want to bet that the school has NOT clamped down on them?

    Just more examples of pseudo-Catholic modernist heterodox wreckovators undermining the faithful and authentic Church, like they’ve been doing in plain sight for half a century now.

  44. acardnal says:

    Following Gonzaga’s logic, I suppose it’s discriminatory to refuse communion to those who are admitted atheists .

    From their website I observe:
    They have several women-only and men-only clubs; Discrimination!

    They have a “Man’s Best Friend Club” . . . .no cats allowed.

    They have a LGBT Resource Center but no Heterosexual Resource Center.

    They have a Runner’s Club but no Walker’s Club.

    They have a Japanese Club, Irish Club, Italian Club, Filipino Clubs, Chinese Club but no “Heinz 57″ Club.

    They have an Institute for Hate Studies but no Institute for Love Studies.

    They have a Red Cross Club but no Red Crescent Club.

    They have a Constitutional Scholars Club but no Anarchist Club.

    https://gonzaga-community.symplicity.com/index.php?_so_list_sort0951a99aa59405c47d2e937b6ff7bbf7=name%3Adesc

  45. tradical says:

    Each Council and/or District of the KofC seem to have their own political agendas and sadly, as you see with the universities, not all of the councils’ agendas are compatible with being a “practical Catholic.” Case in point, the refusal for my former council to raise the topic of supporting traditional marriage. Or refuse to allow anyone to mention by name any politician, even to enumerate where candidates stand on issues.

    I am glad that there is at least some support of Catholic morals by a national organization (in this case the KofC). I fail to understand how, but I am not surprised, that a Catholic gentleman (priest, religious or layman) could be unsupportive of a Catholic organization standing up for Catholic principals, or even more so claim that there is too much support — or that it is partisan. GOOD! If anything, the Supreme Knight should reiterate that our mission is to support the Church, and not anyone’s personal agenda. It should not matter at all if a GK happens to be pro-homosexual marriage, for example – only that that GK is able to carry out his duties of leading the council in support of the Church.

    I consider myself a defender of the Church and the faith. As far as weapons in church goes, I have never heard of anyone having a problem with it. I know many faithful who are never unarmed.

  46. MaryMargaret says:

    For those wondering about WSU’s Newman Center, I can vouch for it being very orthodox. We have a very solid young priest there. Wichita is a pretty good diocese..not terribly friendly to the EF, but we do have one at 8am downtown every Sunday. Oh, and the basketball team is also pretty good. :-)

  47. Peggy R says:

    Fr Jim,

    You must enjoy the reactions you get. You’ve got a good game going here.

  48. Matt R says:

    acardnal,
    The K of C can’t kick out the pro-abort members because of laws governing the sale of insurance, which is still the first and foremost goal of the Knights.

  49. The Astronomer says:

    Stands to reason if Fr. Z can ‘zing’ the Fishwrap, people or clerics who’s sympathies could lean that way in their outlook (frjim4321 ) could play the same tactic here….

    Jus’ sayin’….

  50. Giuseppe says:

    Re. swords in church.
    I love the Metanoia (St. Ignatius Loyola) statue on the U of Scranton campus.
    http://www.scranton.edu/academics/ignite/issues/2011/fall/campus-art.shtml

  51. Suburbanbanshee says:

    Weapons in church. Yeah, and I guess I was imagining the Blessing of Swords and the Vigil of Knighthood, or St. Joan of Arc bearing a sword found right under a church altar.

    Sometimes I think that when we’re all dying in our blood, Fr. Jim will be worrying (as his own lifeblood gushes away, mind you) about whether the persecutors will be able to get our nasty smelly bloodstains out of our clothes. He’s got such interesting worries and priorities, you know?

  52. Well, once again, the liberals go in for self-parody. Just a few years ago, this would have been the plot of a satire. Gonzaga U.: where jokes come true.

    By the way: here is a riveting story about weapons in church — and a Jesuit.

  53. The Sicilian Woman says:

    What do you want to bet that the Catholic Church is a focus of Gonzaga’s “Institute for Hate Studies”?

  54. Eugene says:

    I pray that our good Jesuit Pope will begin a much need renewal of the Jesuit order.
    God have mercy on us.

  55. Colm says:

    This was done at Loyola University in Chicago as well.

  56. Matthew16 says:

    As a frequent reader but almost-never poster (and also 4th Degree Knight), I’d like to add my two cents.

    1. In the interim, could not the local (campus) parish sponsor the Knights directly?

    2. In the interim, until the Council is fully recognized as a student group, could not we the readers harness the power of the Internet and crowd-sourcing to see if we could subsidize the Council for part of what the student activities fees would have done, otherwise? (And would Father Z. permit/assist on his own site?)

    3. In the longer term, why can not Catholics insist more, if not most, student slots at prestigious Catholic universities go first to Catholic students? Should not Catholic universities be foremost for the education of Catholic youth? Accept students globally, to be sure, but give primacy to Catholics over any other applicant? And only when we have taken care of our own at Catholic universities and colleges should we consider opening slots to non-Catholics…

    Just some thoughts.

  57. Shonkin says:

    I am beginning to wonder whether there are any good Jesuit universities left anywhere in the United States. I can cross Gonzaga off the list.
    I did my undergraduate work at the University of San Francisco. I used to donate to USF, even though I was hearing some disturbing things about the school. It was the events following the 9/11 attacks that decided me. A couple of weeks after the attacks Father President Stephen A. Privett, S.J. mailed out a smarmy letter to alumni praising the USF students who demonstrated against any reaction to the mass murders. That’s when I cut off all donations to the school and started giving the money instead to Catholic Indian Schools in Montana and South Dakota.
    Meanwhile, after two five-year terms, USF has signed Privett to a third term. I will never give another nickel to my alma mater.

  58. Absit invidia says:

    My wife and I have reached the conclusion that non-Catholic universities are better than Catholic ones. This is even true with parochial schools where they “value all faiths and religions” . . . all except the Catholic religion.

  59. MKR says:

    There is a Harvard K-o-C chapter, but not a Gonzaga chapter.

    *sigh*

  60. Absit invidia says:

    frjim,

    And the LGBT groups we find at universities and colleges from coast to coast aren’t partisan? Not to mention unions, animal rights groups, environmentalist groups, feminist groups, . . . all partisan. It seems we need to be bringing things back into context.

  61. CharlesG says:

    Fr. Jim,

    Why am I thinking that what you call “partisan” simply means standing up for Catholic teaching and against the evil of abortion and the current redefinition of marriage? And I would guess that if the KOC were to turn all Notre Dame and start worshipping the almighty messiah currently in the White House and embrace the party of death, the Democrats, then you would embrace them with open arms. After all, abortion and same sex marriage are the ultimate sacraments of the Democratic party, as demonstrated at their presidential election convention last year, and they don’t believe in our first freedom of religion and conscience. And there are so many “Catholic” politicians and other cultural and ethnic “Catholics” in name only who don’t give a darn about the teachings of the Church and who are quite happy to embrace the anti-Catholicism of the Democratic Party. Of course, the Republicans are now starting to cave in on the same sex marriage issue as well, so I’m moving in a more independent direction myself politically at the moment.

  62. JARay says:

    So….Fr. Jim is concerned at arms being carried in church!
    There is a place called St. Peter’s in Vatican City where there is a private army which carries arms. The private army is called The Swiss Guards and it even carries arms into St. Peter’s Basilica.
    If you have never heard of them perhaps you could Google the term!
    As a matter of interest I do not belong to your K of C but I do belong to a Catholic, men only ,organisation called The Catenians. It was founded in England just over one hundred years ago and its aim was to provide for Catholic men, a brotherhood of like men, who would meet and support each other if and when the need arose. This brotherhood has spread to South Africa, Hong Kong, Goa, Zimbabwe and even here, to Australia, where I live. We even have an American gentleman in the Circle to which I belong. We do not, however, carry swords into our meetings or into our churches.

  63. Cantor says:

    Meanwhile, over at George Washington University, some students are agitating to have the Newman Center priest removed for having the audacity to preach against abortion and gay marriages.

    http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/students-want-anti-gay-priest-removed-from-university.html

    It’s not a Catholic University, perhaps, but the Newman Center is rather a Catholic place on any campus.

  64. Lou K says:

    I am KoC and will now add Gonzaga to Notre Dame as teams that I hope BYU beats. Glad the Shockers took them out.

  65. iowapapist says:

    Fr Jim:

    So you would be more welcoming to Komen (a financial supporter of Planned Parenthood-http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/05/former-komen-official-karen-handel-calls-planned-parenthood-a-schoolyard-thug.html) than to the Knights of Columbus, founded by a Catholic priest and dedicated to providing spiritual support to Catholic men? Are you first and foremost a Catholic priest or a Democrat?

  66. TMKent says:

    Matt R.
    There is no scandal in the Knights selling insurance. That is how they started over 130 years ago- as a fraternal benefit society for Catholics who were denied insurance and support by institutions both secular and public by simple virtue of their being Catholic. Sound familiar? We are on the brink of another such persecution.
    As for abortion supporting member, Few Bishops have agreed to deny communion and even those have largely only stated they are in favor of doing so. I am aware of no refusal at the altar of any famous individuals. If the bishops will not “excommunicate” they do not want the Knights overstepping them . I guarantee you this conversation has taken place . Usually around 75 or more Bishops and Archbishops are at the Supreme meetings each year and a half dozen or more Cardinals. Before you jump up and say Dolan, I saw both Burke and Chaput last year.
    I guarantee the Knights are doing as the Bishops have asked…evangelization from within.

  67. Christine says:

    I would never in a million years send my kids to a Jesuit school. I don’t care if they offered a full scholarship.

  68. persyn says:

    Now that one of the few remaining Jesuits at Gonzaga has posted here, I’m even more appalled than I was yesterday. Obfuscation about 501(c)3 is one of reddest herrings I’ve ever seen, in a place where leftward leaning loony groups are celebrated and supported, and it is a Jesuit who taught me to know a red herring when I smell one.
    I had dreams of my son going to Gonzaga. They’re shattered. I’m going to continue the trend of Home Schooling and help him through an online degree from home. He has a chance of keeping his faith that way.
    Perhaps the Church should allow online Seminaries so parents could be sure their child with a vocation is actually going to be Catholic when he finishes his formation. Oh, wait. I forgot. He’d then have to be incardinated at the pleasure of a Catholic BISHOP, which are even more rare than Catholic colleges.

  69. JKnott says:

    Things could be worse I suppose. This is the short bio on the “Catholic Chaplain” at my alma mater.
    http://ase.tufts.edu/cct/

  70. tealady24 says:

    I’m thinking that sooner rather than later much of what we hold as “catholic” will go away. This will be due to their most grievous faults! Churches will no longer be attracting people as long as they seek to present things in their typically Protestant ways. I don’t want a songfest and a feel-good Mass! I graduated from a “catholic” college in NJ and would never donate a dime to their progressive agenda’s. And their “nuns” . . . are a disgrace.

    As students graduate and cannot find viable (aka a wage above $10/hr) work in this country, there will be a marked shift in not going to college anymore. I mean, for what? $80,000+ dollars in student loans? How does that get paid back while living at home and paying for nothing?

    Having technical/computer/hands-on skills will be the worker in the coming years. We stand at a precipice in our culture; too bad half the country doesn’t care what happens as long as their little government check keeps coming in.

  71. DavidR says:

    @frjim;

    I’m curious. In which diocese is your job? Are you by any chance in Raleigh?

    @Tealady24;

    My wife and I were discussing this issue last evening. Rather than spend 4 yrs. in college, why not spend 2 or 3 yrs. as apprentice to a plumber, electrician, carpenter, machinist, etc.

    Kids today are too good to work with their hands.

  72. Supertradmum says:

    No offense to any readers, but Gonzaga has been bad for years.

    I worked in a religion department with two Gonzaga grads in theology and one who had taken courses there, and they were all heretics, big time. They not only hated anything coming out of the writings of then Cardinal Ratzinger, but held all the main heresies of the day: universal salvation, no hell, neo-pelagianism, modernism, pro-women priests, pro-lgtb rights and so on.

    They took umbrage at anything remotely orthodox and I remember one telling me that Dominus Iesus was an insult to Christians. Go figure. This was all in 2000-2001. Needless to say, we had trouble working as a team (understatement).

  73. acardnal says:

    Supertradmum, Are there any Jesuit universities in the US that are orthodox and faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church? I don’t know of any.

    Someone in another post regarding Jesuits mentioned them wearing cassocks. In my 58 years, I have only seen ONE Jesuit wearing a cassock – the Servant of God John A. Hardon, SJ. God bless him for his orthodoxy and vast writing and teaching while on earth. Cardinal Raymond Burke is a BIG supporter of his and promotes all of Fr. Hardon’s works. I think I saw Fr. Mitch Pacwa wear his cassock once on EWTN – in celebration of Cdl. Bergoglio being elected Pope.

  74. Supertradmum says:

    acardnal, I can say for sure that Loyola Chicago is not orthodox and neither is Georgetown.

  75. Athelstan says:

    Hell Fr. Jim,

    For me the first concern is the weapons-in-church thing.

    I don’t want to see guns in church, either. But if you mean to refer to our ceremonial swords, you would have an easier time killing someone with a processional cross than you would these blunted ceremonial “swords.”

    At any rate, attaching a KoC council to your parish does not automatically require processions involving 4th degree knights in full ceremonial.

  76. Athelstan says:

    persyn,

    I had dreams of my son going to Gonzaga. They’re shattered. I’m going to continue the trend of Home Schooling and help him through an online degree from home. He has a chance of keeping his faith that way.

    Honestly, if money is the concern…

    Send him to a good, affordable state school with a decent Newman Center and get as much scholarship money (try ROTC, if necessary) as you can. At least there would be no pretense that he’s getting a Catholic education as such.

    But I would not send a child to Gonzaga, either.

  77. JKnott says:

    Universities have energetic fundraising programs directed to alumni.
    If there are still faithful grads who have the means, perhaps a consolidated effort to withhold funds might get the heretics to change their mind. Come to think of it, Notre Dame lost millions over the honoring of the first gay president Obama and nothing changed.
    God is giving the Faithful many new opportunities to practice martyrdom.

  78. j says:

    The GWU chaplain story is in some ways much worse. [A little off topic, but I'll let it stand.]
    http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/2161/gwu_students_rally_behind_embattled_newman_center_priest.aspx#.UWCaSrLNkS9
    The two “activists” claiming they object to the Catholic leanings of the Catholic Newman Center
    http://www.gwhatchet.com/2011/10/13/student-starts-lgbt-group-for-catholic-students/
    aren’t actually Catholic. They started a group, CALLED it Catholic, and are now protesting AS Catholics, even though neither is. One decided he IS a Priest, by becoming Ordained in a non-Catholic (really anti-Catholic) splinter sect
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/v-rev-damian-j-legacy-csc-/
    http://tothesoul.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/dsc_0997.jpg (photo by the other non-Catholic alleged Catholic “activist”)
    They basically claim the tenets of the Catholic faith as explained by the Catholic Chaplain at GWU in the Catholic Center are objectionable to them as Catholics, though they aren’t actually Catholics.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-bergen/the-fight-for-love-at-george-washington-university_b_3024342.html

  79. writer728 says:

    Regrettably you cannot expect too much Catholicism, if any, from most “Catholic” schools today. However, because it is a Catholic school, it is understandable for Catholic students to believe that the Catholic college should promote Catholicism and its supremacy over and against every false religion on the face of the earth. To have a KofC club on a Catholic campus is rather ironic when the entire university itself by rights is a “Catholic club” standing in opposition to the world, the flesh and the devil by promoting only Catholic truth. If a muslim wants to go to a Catholic school, they are necessarily going to feel isolated and cut off, and utterly unable to participate in the life of a Catholic on a Catholic campus that promotes only Catholicism. You will not find Islam or Hinduism or Protestantism or atheism or agnostic ideas or concepts promoted on a Catholic campus. You can attend to learn, but your non-Catholic sensibilities will be assaulted at every turn, by the Crucifix in every room, by the glory of God promoted in every authentic Holy Mass.

    Now, if only that were true…

  80. Terry1 says:

    All of our priest are Jesuits since our small parish contracts for a priest through the Sacred Heart Mission. Ties with Gonzaga are unavoidable. A young priest that taught theology at Gonzaga filled a vacancy for our parish several years ago and he conveyed to me his concern that basketball was becoming Gonzaga’s only religion. Gonzaga completely jumped the shark last fall when the university announced it would offer contraceptives to it’s students.

    I held my breath for the first couple of masses over the last two priest coming out Gonzaga, amazingly both have worked out great.

    Family members that attended Gonzaga during the 90′s still try to fill that huge hole in their heart by punching the progressive check list to happiness, and let’s not even talk about the marxist spewing priest from that era that helped stir up so much trouble on the reservation.

    BTW, I attended a guitar funeral mass at St. Al’s, Gonzaga’s main church last month. My cousin was a man of the 70′s. The Precious Blood of our Lord was offered at communion in glass goblets, I thought that was kind of strange.

  81. Shonkin says:

    @ Terry1: Glass goblets are pretty strange, but not as irreverent or scandalous as what my former parish in Missoula (MT) did about 18 years ago. They had a set of chalices made of unglazed pottery. At least glass is impervious and the Precious Blood won’t soak into it as it will soak into an unglazed ceramic.

  82. Will Elliott says:

    There are some misconceptions about the Knights of Columbus insurance program and about Fourth Degree ceremonial dress. Yes, offering insurance is a key part of being a fraternal benefit association; but being an insurance member is optional. Members who have bought insurance products but who no longer wish to be knights become inactive members and keep their insurance coverage.

    As far as the Fourth Degree and the capes, chapeaux, and swords go: only about a quarter of knights are Fourth Degree members, so while the Color Corps is a visible part of the order, it is not the most important. While wearing the full regalia (including cape, chapeau, and sword) is standard when there is a turnout, if the host pastor doesn’t want the Fourth Degree wearing swords, then they won’t wear swords. I’ve participated in turnouts with no swords and in turnouts in social regalia (Tux and social baldric only) since that what was requested.

  83. frjim4321 says:

    Jaray I have no problem with highly trained Swiss guard protecting the pope in the basilica. In fact I am glad they do so. My only concern is that the guards closest to the pope seem a bit long in the tooth.