Catholic priest beheaded by practitioners of the ‘religion of peace’? So it seems, yes.

Just in case you were tempted to FORGET…

From The Blaze (not the only source… there are videos…:

CATHOLIC PRIEST ALLEGEDLY BEHEADED IN SYRIA BY AL-QAEDA-LINKED REBELS AS MEN AND CHILDREN TAKE PICTURES AND CHEER

Syrian Catholic priest Francois Murad killed last weekend by jihadi fighters was beheaded, according to a report by Catholic Online which is linking to video purportedly showing the brutal murder.

As TheBlaze reported last week, Murad, 49, was setting up a monastery in Gassanieh, northern Syria. Last Sunday, on the Christian leader’s Sabbath, extremist militants trying to topple President Bashar Assad breached the monastery and grabbed Murad.

While earlier reports suggested Murad may have been shot to death, Catholic Online reported Saturday: “The Vatican is confirming the death by beheading of Franciscan Father, Francois Murad, who was martyred by Syrian jihadists on June 23.

[...]

Sts. Nunilo and Alodia….

WARNING!

Father Murad was murdered along with another individual, as yet unnamed, as a crowd of onlookers comprised of of men and boys cheered and took photographs with smartphones. The actual beheadings were not performed swiftly with a sword as one from the West imagines. The executioner used what appeared to be an ordinary kitchen knife, according to The Blaze.

A video of the execution is available through LiveLeak, together with warnings of the graphic nature of the video. I chose not to watch.

Religion.

Of.

Peace.

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79 Responses to Catholic priest beheaded by practitioners of the ‘religion of peace’? So it seems, yes.

  1. Maltese says:

    I will say this, Muslims can take and give a beating. My best friend was born in Afghanistan, and he saved my rear and I saved his–we got into some pretty good fights at the University of Michigan. I think most Muslims are wonderful–his parents were intellectuals, and he’s an intellectual. We grew-up together.

  2. Priam1184 says:

    Father I think that Father Murad performed the greatest act of his life at its closing. He showed those who like to strap explosives to the unwary, send them into crowded marketplaces, detonate them and proclaim them to be ‘martyrs’ what true martyrdom and true submission and obedience are. I don’t know Father but there is something going on here. Islam is ripping itself to shreds across the Middle East, in those lands that once formed the core of the Catholic Church. The future is hazy and neither I nor anybody else has a clear vision of things to come but I hope that someone in the Vatican or in a missionary order somewhere with some brains and some guts is taking a look at this with an eye to doing something.

  3. Navarricano says:

    I’m confused, Father Z. I’ve been hearing about this for several days now, but the Catholic Culture site says that Fr. Mourad is not one of the men beheaded in the video:

    “Reports of Islamic be-headings of Franciscans proven inaccurate”
    http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=18293

    According to the report above, Fr. Mourad was killed in gunfire earlier in the week, but the Franciscans fled the monastery, taking his body with them. The Franciscans seem to be saying that the reports are inaccurate, and that none of the men in the video is Fr. Mourad.

    In any case, no matter how he died, Fr. Maroud is now one of the many thousands of modern-day martyrs for the Faith, and we need his intercession badly.

  4. Gratias says:

    Watched the video. Some 150 Muslim Enemies milling around and chanting Allahu Akhbar in perfect order. Then they choose to go for Father Murad first and the video mercifully stalls a bit. Finally they lift up his severed head in triumph.

    My consolation is that Muslims are fighting amongst themselves in Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Egypt, Libya, Lebanon, and other places where Sunni meets Shia. Our own President was educated a Sunni in Indonesia and he stands with Syrian rebels. The Religion of Peace has much unrequited male vitality and all this bloodletting is a safety valve for them. But they should leave Christians out of it and hammer it out among the ones that have generated their problems.

    Our metrosexual press has published nothing on this crime, for example in today’s Wall Street Journal even though they one of their reporters, Danny Pearl, executed in an even more gruesome way, and by Khalid Sheik Mohammed’s in person no less. The interests of the Catholic Church are very different from those of International Socialism.

  5. Legisperitus says:

    Damian Thompson has also updated his post to say Fr. Mourad was actually shot.

  6. Tony McGough says:

    A very nasty business, whoever the victim was. And one way or another, Fr Mourad is a martyr.

    The executioners are not men of God, and do not represent their faith, just as the murdering, knee-capping extortioning IRA members were (and are) not men of God, no matter how much they claimed to be representing catholics.

    OK, so Islam is a false religion, but it is the best many millions have, and at least they get to pray and fast. That’s something good.

  7. george says:

    Praying and Fasting isn’t intrinsically good. If they are praying to and fasting for a demon, that is bad.

  8. Dcduo says:

    Koran 8.12 – “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

    Believe it or not Tony, these muslims are as orthodox in their beliefs as our Pope. The IRA represented Catholics citizens, not necessarily Catholicism.

  9. AGA says:

    The situation with violent Islam is largely our own (American) creation. We’ve chosen to prop up certain regimes. We’ve chosen to destabilize others. We’ve chosen to be the largest exporter of anti-family and anti-life propaganda and methods in the history of the world.

    To now blame this mess in Southwest Asia on Islam is foolish. The Islamic world is more Catholic (in terms of both what they publicly acknowledge about God and their adherence to natural law) than the West.

    The official teaching of the Catholic Church is summed up in Nostra Aetate 3.

    Instead of joining in league with the secularists and dispensationalists who run this country, and buying into their propaganda that its the Islamic religion at the root cause of this strife, perhaps we should follow Nostra Aetate 3?

  10. B16_Fan says:

    Yes, Sts. Nunilo and Alodia pray for us, but it is also looking more and more likely that we need another Charles Martel!

  11. Long-Skirts says:

    MOURNING
    BELLS

    The bells -
    They stopped years ago
    At the Consecration
    Of many a Mass

    Where kneeling down
    Their Savior adore
    The people said “…that
    We’ll pass.”

    And now at six
    The happy-hour
    When the Angelus
    Used to chime

    There are no bells
    To remind the people
    Pray your souls
    To prime.

    And in the night clubs
    Dancing till dawn
    The people sin
    No regret…

    And now at six
    The “mourning” hour
    Bells die with each passing
    Minaret.

  12. Liz says:

    I have no words for such horror…

  13. torch621 says:

    Religion of peace my aching left foot. Islam is the only religion that I have seen turn men into complete animals and has thirst for infidel blood written right into it’s “scriptures”. Islam is an absolute threat to the West, and has been since it was founded by it’s pedophile, warmongering “prophet” started it in the seventh century. May God deliver all peoples under it’s deadly yoke and bring them to the truth, which is Christ.

  14. RJHighland says:

    When will the Church stand up for the Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Protestants that are being murdered through-out the Middle East and Africa and call Islam what it is a false religion. Members of the Church have claimed that we worship the same God! Are you kidding me! There is but one God and He has tought His people through His Church, which was started by the 11 Apostles that were closet to the Son while he was hear on earth, how He wants to be worshipped and it is not the worship professed by Mohamed.

  15. george says:

    But didn’t the Second Vatican Council imply that they worship the same God we do and that we should have an ecumenical spot in our hearts for the Muslims?

  16. Priam1184 says:

    @Tony McGough I am sorry but they do very well represent their faith, at least in its heartland and its origins. These lands were where Islam came from and where its first principles were formed as a reaction and heresy against the Catholic Church. It is one thing to say that Islam is the ‘best they have’ and that its followers are very nice people in places like Senegal or Indonesia which are far from its heart and were not originally inhabited by the Catholic Church. It is not an accident however that it is those lands that were once a flourishing part and indeed the original heart of the Catholic Church and/or were the base from which this anti-Trinitarian heresy has launched its attacks against the Church for almost 14 centuries now where the ideology of jihadi terrorism has its root and core and its most fanatical adherents that it has has exported across the world. Deliver these lands (not in a military sense but one of conversion of heart) back to the One True Faith which was that of the fathers of the fathers of their fathers and we will see an entirely different world.

  17. tjg says:

    Charles Martel indeed!

    In summing up the man, Gibbon has written, Martel was “the hero of the age,” whereas Guerard describes him as being the “champion of the Cross against the Crescent.”

  18. Mum26 says:

    This is heinous.

    Here is an incident of persecution American style. I removed all indications of person or location for the sake of anonymity. But I do know the priest in question and can honestly say that he was a solidly Catholic priest with a love for the TLM, offering Confession at early morning hours for the folks in the workforce, etc…..:

    Yes he will be sent to Mexico for a year next year to learn Spanish. He was reported 12 times last year by the parish counsel at Parish XYZ for ‘Pastoral Sensitivity’. Meaning he spoke the Catholic faith without duplicity from the pulpit. Parish XYZ asked he be removed from their parish. So as to appease them, the Bishop sent him out into the deep so he could count on the faithful of Parish XYZ to chip in for the Cathedral where we have the environmental charismatic leftists order coming in to run the Cathedral.

  19. AvantiBev says:

    Amen RJ Highland! The only thing that sickens me more than the ideologies of Nazism, Communism and Islam are the katholics who made / make excuses for them. As a woman who is too smart for sharia, too Christian to convert and too beautiful for a burqa, you “men” of katholicism lite can bend over and grab your ankles while facing Mecca to save your yellow backsides. We women have no choice but to resist, speak out, write, fight at every opportunity to make this evil known.

  20. Mum26 says:

    Peter Kreeft’s analysis: http://www.christophersmith-op.com/2013/07/01/the-simultaneous-rise-of-homosexuality-and-islam-an-interview-with-peter-kreeft/

    The members of these two groups know what they want. They are willing to fight and die for it. Please God, let me be willing to die for my faith too. Will I?

    Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat! (I would love to have that on a flag hanging off my house)

  21. Fr AJ says:

    I’m sure these members of the religion of peace would be open to dialogue…not. When will we figure out these are not reasonable people and treat them accordingly?

  22. frjim4321 says:

    A disgusting and horrifying display of the ultimate effect of fundamentalism on any religion.

    I agree that this seems to have been sorely under-reported in the press.

    All eyes are on this week’s “trial of the century” in Florida.

  23. Imrahil says:

    Dear @george,

    the Council never misattributed the term “ecumenical” on what is properly called “interreligious”. (Though there is the thesis out there that Islam is a Christian heresy… which was left uncommented by the Council. I do not think it, now, that it really is, but there are also good arguments for the thesis. That does not belong here.)

    Nevertheless… they do worship the same God we do. Mormons, however, don’t. Maybe you don’t like that because you like Mormons more than Muslims, and you certainly have the right to do so, but that’s how it is.

    They do, however, worship this same God wrongly, holding erroneous (quite erroneous, if there can be comparisons here) tenets of faith … and that is important.

    If you allow a frank word, I wonder how this idea that worshippers of the same God must by necessity be friendly or at least civil to each other ever came up. The Protestants quite certainly worship the same God we do, and the Thirty Years War happened nonetheless. What is more (the Thirty Years War was, after all, a war), Protestant Dutch captains told the shogun of Japan the lie that home-born Catholics were Spanish invaders, and gave him fireweapons to martyrize them.

    Religion is more about beliefs than about morality, and Moslems, though they are heretical and (I tend to hold in the proper sense, and certainly in the colloquial one and in their own opinion) un-Christian, do not err in the specific points that there is One God and that they are bound to and want to worship Him. And this, not some complaint however justified about their heresies and misdeeds to us Christians and in general, is what the sentence “They worship the same God” is about.

  24. ntombes says:

    The blood of Martyrs prepares the ground for the seeds of Faith…

    @Fr AJ, be assured that most American Muslims would denounce this act. There is a huge difference between the attitudes of American Muslims and those of Middle Eastern Muslims.

    Pray for the conversion of Muslims, and the strength to endure even such a martyrdom if called.

  25. av8er says:

    Religion of peace… once you convert.

    Dinesh D’Souza wrote a book called “the enemy within: the cultural left and its responsibility for 9/11″. Outstanding and insightful. It is a wakeup call to all non-muslim Americans, or any western nation. Another very good book was more dissecting the differences of Catholicism and Islam, the name escapes me since I am away from home and can’t reach for the book. I think it’s simply Islam and Catholicism. Written by two people one a muslim convert. Both books dispell the “religion of peace” myth.

  26. av8er says:

    Ok, here it is:
    Inside Islam: A guide for Catholics, 100 questions and answers.
    By Robert Spencer and Daniel Ali

  27. DisturbedMary says:

    Islam is Satan’s Way, Lie and Darkness. It is not fundamentalism frjim.

  28. Gus Barbarigo says:

    The First Gay President wants to increase immigration from Syria to the US. That means the decapitators will be joining the Boston Bomber crowd, and there will be more mayhem on this side of the Atlantic. (Meanwhile, the German family that sought asylum here for Christian homeschooling is facing deportation.)

    Fr. Z, keep your carry-permit updated and your Springfield close at hand, at all times! (++Romero was martyred on the altar!)

    Pakistan was expressly created as a Muslim nation. The Church needs an expressly Catholic nation to defend the faithful against the attacks like what we are hearing about in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, you name it.

    The banal notion that ‘all fundamentalism can lead to violence’ is useless boloney when it’s your neck against the butter knife. Whether or not the prophecies of a Great Monarch are worthy of belief, the Church needs a great monarch to defend the Church; I beg you all to pray to the Lord for same. Even St. Therese, the Little Flower, said she wished she could fight for the Church.

    I’m not asking for a Catholic political utopia; I’m asking that we all pray together for a base of operations and a fighting chance! If Pope St. Pius V asked for Catholic military victory at the time of Lepanto, why not pray for the same today!!!

  29. robtbrown says:

    frjim4321 says:
    A disgusting and horrifying display of the ultimate effect of fundamentalism on any religion.

    What do you mean by “fundamentalism”?

  30. Imrahil says:

    If Pope St. Pius V asked for Catholic military victory at the time of Lepanto, why not pray for the same today?

    Why not indeed.

    Nevertheless, that still reminds me of the joke about the man who prayed that he win the lottery. He was, in fact, a devout prayer and prayed for years and years, many times a day, and quite fervently. After ten years, God appeared to him in a vision and said, “at least give me a chance and buy a ticket”.

  31. JKnott says:

    From the “Catechism of the Catholic Church ” 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

    Televangelists are blasting the Catholic Church for having this statement in the Catechism. A person who is borderline Catholic and being slowly drawn away from the Church by these anti-Catholic TV preachers confronted me with CCC 841. I’m sure it didn’t help this person’s wobbly faith hearing the Cardinal at the Mosque recently. Same God, huh???

  32. Cathy says:

    frjim4321, the world sees what it wants you to see. Under the guise of equality, it wants you to assure that women can murder their children, it wants you to praise men in mini-skirts and mascara as dignified, or, at the very least, show no outward aversion to their “pride”. It wants you to see men beheading fellow citizens with kitchen knives as “freedom fighters” for the religion of “peace”, so we can soundly arm them with greater weapons while we demand that our own disarm themselves. It wants you to see mass immigration into our country as simply people seeking freedom, it does not want you to see refugees, human slavery and the worst elements breezing over as well with its own culture of drug lords, machete murders and kidnapping welcomed with open arms as “dreamers”. We clothed the naked emperor with our own cataracts and desires, and he sells and sells, but he can never buy back. We rejected the Crucified, and we praised the plague. The world does not reject the bloody message when it is attached to anger and vengeance, it only rejects it when it admits to sacrificial love.

  33. APX says:

    Religion of peace… once you convert.

    Not if you’re a woman.
    “Husbands, beat your wives”

    It says that right in the Koran. But, don’t fret. Allah was thoughtful and included beating etiquette instructions for their husbands for how to properly beat their wives in order to show them honor. Ie: if he uses a rod, it must be short and he can’t beat her in such a way that it would make her ugly.

  34. Chuck3030 says:

    This reminds me of a very convincing article I found a long time ago that laid out the case for Islam being Satan’s religion.
    Also, aren’t we arming these guys? two points: 1) why are we arming these fanatics? 2) shouldn’t we be giving them something more effective than a butter knife?

    Anyway, for those of you who were looking for a good time/reason to start praying, this would be it!

  35. Legisperitus says:

    Allah is not the God of Israel.

    Allah was originally one of a pantheon of local gods recognized by the Arab culture into which Mohammed was born. Over time some came to call Allah “Akbar,” or “the greatest” of the gods. Mohammed studied the Old and New Testaments and then grafted Judeo-Christian monotheism onto Allah Akbar, appropriating the scriptural background but only insofar as it suited his new doctrines.

    Summary of information from H. Daniel-Rops, The Church in the Dark Ages.

  36. AGA says:

    I’d recommend to all reading Nostra Aetate paragraph 3.

    Also Romans 12, and specifically verse 18. And perhaps Acts 17:22-23..

  37. APX says:

    Can hardly wait for this to come to Canada. Why is no one alarmed that our population face is changing to that of Muslims?

  38. APX says:

    Can hardly wait for this to come to Canada. Why is no one alarmed that our population face is changing to that of Muslims?

  39. “A disgusting and horrifying display of the ultimate effect of fundamentalism on any religion.”

    Of the world’s several prominent religions, only one is known for its current adherents beheading those who disagree with them. So this is an area in which “moral equivalence” doesn’t work too well.

  40. frjim4321 says:

    …only one is known for its current adherents…

    Possibly true.

  41. Cantor says:

    …[O]nly one is known for its current beheading those who disagree with them.

    With respect, the people of Omagh, Northern Ireland, and other more current victims of sectarian violence, would likely call that a distinction without a difference.

  42. Dienekes says:

    Martin Van Creveld, in his book “The Transformation of War”, suggests that “The Lord of Battles” may make a return in the near future. Cultural passivity only seems to whet some peoples’ bloodthirstiness.

    Expect some turbulence; please buckle your seat belts.

  43. govmatt says:

    Realism, not relativism or rage, is the best defense in these tragic situations.

    Fr. Murad is a martyr. He was killed for his faith, and he is with God.

    Realistically: the current “radicalization” in certain Islamic sects is as much socio-economic as it is religious. (c.f. Sharia movements in Britain/France, Political revolts against secular-Islamic rulers in the Maghreb) We are seeing desperate and gullible people being corrupted en masse to pursue evil agendas.
    This is not to weigh in on the “religion of peace” v “religion of murderers.” It is too easy to pick out individual Qur’anic passages and go running around yelling about how an entire religion is demonic and against the rights of [women, homosexuals, ethnic minorities, Christians, Jews...].

    To equate modern Islamic terrorism with the Caliphate/Islamic expansion (700-900ish though the case can be made to 1571) is like saying all tornadoes are the same: certainly in all forms it is destructive, but there are clear orders of magnitude involved. (e.g. 813 Martyrs of Otranto)

    To lash out at “Islam,” generally is a flawed tactic. Effectively damning a religion or its followers because of the actions of a few is irresponsible (see: the Church’s teaching on the “Jews” versus “Jewish Leaders” in the Passion). That is not to say that that “few” shouldn’t receive the full breadth of whatever full broadsides the Barque of Peter has to offer.

    While what I’ve written may draw your ire, remember that well-informed, pinpoint denunciations are much more effective and translate far better to a wider, more receptive audience than a “the sky is falling” proclamation.

  44. jaykay says:

    Cantor: those who carried out the outrage in Omagh were in a dissident Republican group, who define themselves as “fighting” for a 32-county united socialist republic. It had nothing to do with religion, although a good lot to do with the criminality they are also heavily involved in. Think Mafia.

  45. Stumbler but trying says:

    Dear Fr. Mourad, rest in peace. I can only hope you were dead before they began to behead you. The thought of your final moments makes me sad but gives me consolation since now you are with your Lord and nothing can harm you again.
    May you live in eternal joy as you contemplate the beauty of Jesus, the glory of the Father.
    May you spend eternity interceding for your Franciscan brethren who seek to serve and protect the Holy Land and her peoples.
    May your tears cleanse all evil from such beautiful lands.
    May your prayers before the Lord save His people in Syria, in Iraq, in Iran, all of the Middle East and in all places where people of faith and good will suffer.
    May you intercede for the Church in the West, that sleeps a sleep of indifference, infidelity, lack of prayer, disobedience, and unbelief.
    Should persecution come to America, the likes of what your people have suffered, may we grow stronger in unity so as to stand and defend our faith, our people, and our lands.
    Lord have mercy on us all!

  46. MarkJ says:

    Every 5 minutes a muslim kills a Christian…

    http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/05/22/every-five-minutes-somewhere-in-the-muslim-world-a-christian-is-being-killed-just-for-being-a-christian/

    We had better wake up in the West. I’ve been to Belgium many times, and this place will be majority islamic in a few more years. The rest of Europe is following suit. There will be no tolerance of the few Christians who are left to defend the Faith.

  47. Supertradmum says:

    There are only two revealed religions, Judaism and Christianity, specifically, Catholicism, the one, true religion. All others are man-made and therefore, flawed. To think that a man-made religion would not be flawed shows a lack of reflection and a lack of knowledge. To compare Catholicism with Islam is not a valuable enterprise. What is valuable is pursuing personal holiness so that in the times of trials coming very soon, from the East and from the West, we can stand firm in our faith.

    That this priest gave him life as a witness to God is a repetition of two thousand years of martyrdom under the hands of those who violently forced people to convert to Islam.

    Almost 80 years ago, Hilaire Belloc warned us that one of the greatest threats to Catholicism in modern times would be the resurgence of Islam as it really is, not a Westernized version. Few paid attention to him

    We now have to be clear and not relativistic. To pretend that there is not a spiritual battle raging on the earth for the supremacy of Islam over Christianity is blindness. May the souls of the faithful departed rest in peace. Amen.

  48. Supertradmum says:

    I should have written over 1300 years of persecution from Islam, not two thousand. I was thinking of all the martyrs, who always bucked the established religions of their governments. Christianity was a heresy in Rome, and so the many martyrs died for Truth. We are witnessing those times again from many fronts, not just one.

  49. Stumbler but trying says:

    I just read this and share it here…a very real reality that we may or may not live…many battles will be fought before we get to this level if ever we do.

    Syrian Christian refugees told Dutch blogger Martin Janssen that their village of 30 Christian families had a firsthand taste of the rebels’ new sharia courts. One of Janssen’s accounts was translated by renowned Australian linguist, writer, and Anglican priest, the Rev. Mark Durie:

    “Jamil [an elderly man] lived in a village near Idlib where 30 Christian families had always lived peacefully alongside some 200 Sunni families. That changed dramatically in the summer of 2012. One Friday trucks appeared in the village with heavily armed and bearded strangers who did not know anyone in the village. They began to drive through the village with a loud speaker broadcasting the message that their village was now part of an Islamic emirate and Muslim women were henceforth to dress in accordance with the provisions of the Islamic Shariah. Christians were given four choices. They could convert to Islam and renounce their ‘idolatry.’ If they refused they were allowed to remain on condition that they pay the jizya. This is a special tax that non-Muslims under Islamic law must pay for ‘protection.’ For Christians who refused there remained two choices: they could leave behind all their property or they would be slain. The word that was used for the latter in Arabic (dhabaha) refers to the ritual slaughter of sacrificial animals.”

    To read the entire article:
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/352494/shadow-war-against-syrias-christians-nina-shea

  50. Stumbler but trying says:

    Where are the “religion of peace” representatives? Why are they silent? Why will they not rise up to defend the innocent? They are cowards, the lot of them. All they do is destroy and rob people of their God given dignity and peace and freedom and all in the name of their god.

    All of this has me reflecting on what is happening over there but it also makes me very angry. I must pray more now and continue to hope against hope for my many brothers and sisters in the faith who have suffered so much already and will continue to do so until the Lord raises up brave souls to defend them.

  51. Bea says:

    Grievous times and more to come if the world doesn’t wake up.
    Grievous times and more to come if the Church doesn’t wake up, also.
    When we have Card. Dolan saying
    “we worship the same God” and
    telling Islams “Don’t lose your Faith”,
    when we have JPII kissing Korans and asking God to Bless Islam,
    I find much cause to grieve and worry.
    May God fortify us in these times to come.

  52. Unwilling says:

    Horrible is horrible. I did not peek. The disgust and anger expressed here justified.

    There is also a bit of moral or sociological equivalencing, however. Speaking of Catholicism versus “a religion” can lead thoughts astray. Catholicism is simply religio (recall Fr Z’s recent post pointing out how that word includes the entire life of holiness; cf. conversatio). Other practices and beliefs might (i.e. not actually proposing a change in usage) more clearly be referred to using scare quotes: the Muslim “religion” etc.

    “Fundamentalism” is a term usually used to confuse. It has nearly lost its fundamental meaning related to the foundations of a system of belief. Catholic thinkers use it to refer to a refusal to grow beyond those indispensable foundations to more developed understanding. Foes of truth pretend that desirable development must include abandoning foundations. IRA and Islamic (not to mention Kurdish, Basque, Georgian, Xinjiang, …) murderers and terrorists are people using violent means to achieve their (sometimes laudable) ends. Their use of such means has nothing to do with fundamentalism.

    And why is it so “easy to pick out individual Qur’anic passages” that endorse various kinds of wickedness? govmatt, highly intelligent people are at extra risk of sophistical cleverness.

  53. StJude says:

    Islam is a barbaric, vile “religion”.

    God have mercy on us.

  54. Clinton R. says:

    “Islam is a barbaric, vile “religion”.”

    You are exactly right, StJude. I am very tired of hearing some in the Church thumping us over the head by repeating the mantra, “Muslims worship the same God Catholics do”. It is quite evident to the contrary. May Our Lord strengthen us to always confess the True Faith. +JMJ+

  55. Dave N. says:

    So is this story true or not? (This was already pointed out at the beginning of the thread, but….)

    http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=18293

  56. Luvadoxi says:

    So….what then? Are we supposed to ignore the Catechism now?

  57. Stephen D says:

    The virulently anti-Christian Channel 4 in the UK has decided to broadcast the Muslim call to prayer throughout Ramadan (which includes a statement of the basic beliefs of Islam regarding Mohammed and Allah). I have suggested that they show this foul video, footage of the London bombings and pictures of the murdered Lee Rigby instead. It is an outrage when they make no attempt to conceal their contempt for Christianity and Catholicism in particular.

  58. tioedong says:

    The radical Islamacists martyred the good priest, just as the radical Islamacists murdered several our priests in Mindanao. The world is in a war against radical Islam, not Islam itself.
    As for martyrs, they are not the only ones killing priests (and nuns).

    We have had a priest killed for defending the local tribal folks from those who wanted steal their land for mining here in the Philippines.

    And several Colombian priests were murdered for giving sermons against narco terrorist gangs.

    Finally, the “insurgents” murdered 37 missionaries the last year I worked in Rhodesia back in the 1970′s, were funded by the World Council of Churches, a “christian” group.

    Lots of martyrs by lots of bad guys.

  59. wish i could log into my ning account. Have a video of prof that did his homework on the history of Islam. It’s like trying to find a needle in a haystack but if i happen to locate it at some point would like to share.
    Dolan said they worship the same God.Yes and no.Yes,because God is God & no matter how flawed our view of Him may be God is still God. No,because the theology is all wrong.I think that’s saying the same thing in different ways. JPII kissed the Koran.I imagine to show respect not acceptance. The Church has tried to dialogue with some representatives of Muslims. Doesn’t look like it’s getting anywhere but an A for effort.Now it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee.It can’t be all one sided and they don’t know any other side.
    “But didn’t the Second Vatican Council imply that they worship the same God we do and that we should have an ecumenical spot in our hearts for the Muslims?” Yes. Worth trying to bring about peace and civility.
    Going to happen? Not when the other side isn’t interested.
    “I’m sure these members of the religion of peace would be open to dialogue…not. When will we figure out these are not reasonable people and treat them accordingly?” Agree TOTALLY and now that the Church has made the effort and we keep seeing these results time to give it up.
    When they’re not killing us they’re killing each other.

  60. frjim4321 says:

    Now I understand what they mean when they say the Omega Point is a million years away.

  61. AGA says:

    If we truly care about the plight of the Christians in Middle East why don’t we listen to them?

    They are not calling for arms against the Islamic states.

    They are not calling for pronouncements (and name calling) against the Islamic religion.

    Christians live in genuine peace and prosperity in places like Iran. They *lived* in genuine peace and prosperity in places like Iraq and Syria too, that is before US intervention.

    Stop and listen. Read what the bishops in these areas actually say.

  62. RJHighland says:

    I am so tired or our Church being run by a bunch of double talking, placating sissies. Call a false religion a false religion, call evil, evil. Look at how many radicals show up to these rallies over there. Where are the moderates? I see one or two of them pop up on TV interviews every once in a while put please enough of this peaceful religion stuff the Muslim world is a blaze and it is not any form of moderate group that is a position to take over. America is arming Muslims that what to eradicate Jews and Christians from the earth, they burn our Churches and Synigogues and kill our Priests and laity. We either lay down and take it or take it to them but I don’t know if the Church knows what a real man is anymore. Where are the carpenters and fishermen in leadership? We have a bunch of scribes and effeminates. The one true Church is lead by a bunch of wimps that don’t have the courage to proclaim the one true faith. The Saints and martyrs are weeping at the cowardice of our Church. My prayers are with all the faithful that have remained in enemy territory around the world, the way this country is going it will be coming to your neighborhood soon. Our Popes have fundimentally put the incense on the alters of false gods by celebrating these inter-religious cerimonies, religious claiming that the Muslims and Christians all worship the same god, Pope Benedict stating there is no need to evangelize the Jews? Really, is that what being a Catholic in 2013 is? How does that compare to what was taught by our Lord and His Apostles? Clearly Jesus states the only way to the Father is through Him, Jesus stated that the good news was to be taken to the Jew first, and Paul talks about worship of false gods. Paul never said Jupter is equivalent to God the Father or Hercules was equivalent to Jesus the Roman’s believe in the same God just very misguided. Was that in Paul’s letter to the Roman’s somewhere and I just missed it? What a mess! How do we expect a Church to correct a militant false religion and combat the Evil One when it can’t even get a bunch of homosexual Cardinals, Bishops and priests out of it’s own ranks? What a sad, sad joke our Lord’s Bride has become. The only hope we have are in the few strong voices in the wilderness that proclaim the truth. My prayers are with those that hold true to the faith in the face of great evil, like Fr. Murad and faithful in the Middle East, Far East, and Africa.

  63. Nan says:

    @AGA, remind me what regime the US was propping up that led to the First Barbary War? Islam itself mandates killing the infidel.

  64. The Astronomer says:

    RJHighland: Be careful, posting bold truth like that is bound to offend some of those of whom you speak that troll… er, post here under the ostensible guise of ‘voices of reason.’

  65. Nan says:

    @tieodong, the difference between those other groups creating martyrs is that they’re not doing it in the name of religion, while Islam demands that its adherents kill infidels.

  66. BLB Oregon says:

    We all know that the devil has even conned Christians into all sorts of things on the rationalization that indulging their violent desires would also please God. I don’t think Christians have done these things to please God, and I don’t think Muslims do, either. I think they use God as an excuse to please their own desire for violence, and may heaven have mercy on them, giving them the grace to whole-heartedly repent of that blasphemy that the devil has lured them into! Let us hope there is something we don’t know about that mitigates their culpability, somehow, for God does thirst for every soul.

    If you look at the writings about what the Prophet Muhammad actually wrote, he did grant Christians the privilege to practice their religion without being molested, although as I understand it he forbade missionary efforts of any kind. My general feeling, though, is that the theory people of some religious group or other says their religion teaches is not so important as what their members actually do. If they are tolerant, then fine, they are tolerant. If they are violent, then it does not matter that their holy books preach peace and identify Allah as the same as the God of Abraham. They are not worshipping the true God, any more than a Christian could do such evil for the true God and call it service of heaven.

    Over our history, we couldn’t even count on other Christians not to put us to the sword over religion. Since none of us will automatically assume that a Catholic can’t possibly have a violent bone in his body on the topic of religion, though, why on earth would we believe that some other religion makes someone automatically peaceful? Unless you have a religion that throws adherents out when they start acting like thugs, I doubt it has ever happened. If you let the thugs in, then your religion will have thugs in it, and they will tarnish your religion by using it for an excuse. I will not hold the actions of Muslim thugs against the Muslims who denounce them, then. I would want the same for myself.

    Many of us are also familiar with Mark Twain’s quote: “We despise all reverences and all the objects of reverence which are outside the pale of our own list of sacred things. And yet, with strange inconsistency, we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are holy to us.” I do not think it any offense to our own religion to have respect for those things other people hold sacred. We do not have to offer any reverence ourselves, but only need to give room for them to their own pious habits. If they give us as much in return, then we will know they are peaceful. If not, then I’m not much interested in what they’re holy books say, because of all the people in the world who can effectively preach to them out of their own books, it surely won’t be me!

  67. kmcgrathop says:

    The first reports of Fr. Mourad’s martyrdom from last week made it clear he had been shot to death. The video only popped up later. The custos of the Franciscans of the Holy Land confirms that Fr. Mourad (who had once been, but was not at the time of his death, a Franciscan) was shot and that they had buried his body.

    http://www.kiiitv.com/story/22743714/catholic-monk-not-beheaded-by-syrian-rebels-friar-says

    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Strong-doubts-expressed-about-the-beheading-of-three-Franciscan-friars-in-Al-Ghassaniyah-28332.html

    Does it really matter, whether he was shot or beheaded? At one level, no. He was killed for being a Christian. Fr. Mourad is a martyr.

    But on another level it matters very much that our understanding of this conflict raging in Syria – of the plight of Christians, the role of Islamic sectaries, the geo-politics of it – be based on truth. There is an enormous amount of disinformation and falsehoods being propagated by both the rebels and the supporters of Bashar al-Assad. A lot of inaccurate information has been published, for example, by the Moscow Patriarchate concerning atrocities against Christians by the rebels. The Russian Orthodox Church is still the handmaiden of the Russian State (which is trying desperately to prop up the butcher Assad), and it is not hard to understand why the information from the Russian Church might have a particular bias.

    The danger Syrian Christians are in needs no exaggeration. But lies and exaggeration fuel the flames of outrage and vengeance. Many of us are PREPARED to believe anything evil said about Muslims. And this propaganda is meant to satisfy us and to move us to up the ante on violence and hatred. It is gasoline on the fire of our rage. And that is only from the devil.

    I happen to find Catholic sources that are actually connected to the reality of the Middle East (e.g. Fides.org or AsiaNews.it) to be the most accurate sources on Syria (better than any network or BBC even) and it always turns out to be more accurate.

    The Pope continues dialogue with Islam even as Christians are being persecuted in virtually every Muslim-majority country. But is this not the way of a blessed peacemaker? It takes no courage at all to rant and rave about the evils of Islam. We all see it. We all know about it. Real courage is shown by those who seek out the ‘people of good will’ wherever they can be found.

  68. TNCath says:

    Dear God in Heaven, have mercy on us! There are no words.

  69. “The Pope continues dialogue with Islam even as Christians are being persecuted in virtually every Muslim-majority country. But is this not the way of a blessed peacemaker? It takes no courage at all to rant and rave about the evils of Islam. We all see it. We all know about it. Real courage is shown by those who seek out the ‘people of good will’ wherever they can be found.” yes it’s the way of a blessed peacemaker. Real courage IS shown by those who seek out people of good will.Unfortunately i don’t think the other side is interested nor has good will. NOT criticizing the Church nor your comments(you’re correct).I think though we have to look at the evidence and conclude it’s probably going to be them or us and they don’t plan on it being us.

  70. Luvadoxi says:

    boxerpaws and BLB Oregon–thank you for putting things in perspective with charity.

  71. Unwilling says:

    “It is too easy to …go running around yelling about how an entire religion is demonic and against the rights of [many]”
    “It takes no courage at all to rant and rave about the evils of Islam.”

    First of all, to call someone’s opinions “ranting and raving” with metaphors of “running around” or “yelling” is mere name calling. If their opinions can be improved, try improving them with reason and respect. The fact that people can be insulted for stating the obvious is a segue to the next point.

    Contrary to the claims in the quotes, it is very dangerous, among the most dangerous in our time, to frankly describe much less to criticize Islam or any of the politically protected identities.

    People are justifiably shocked by the topic of the thread and struggling to express dismay at the mystery of evil. This is a comments page.

  72. Imrahil says:

    Dear @boxerpaws1952 and others,

    On a practical note, what else could the Holy Father do as a better substitute for dialogue? I do not expect him to dialogue with Muslims all day long (so that we could say he does it too much), he has much else to do.

    I do not think “He could assert that Catholicism is true and Islam false” is an “alternative to dialogue”. It is an option, and even an obligation, to do so, and it has been somewhat understressed of late; but you do not get to choose between either this or dialogue. The choice is dialogue or silence; to insist on the fact that we are right is, or must be, a given in both cases. Otherwise the dialogue never was what it was meant to be to begin with.

    So, should the Pope dialogue with Islam, or should he say, “you’ve done so and so much wrong in the past, but after what you did now, it’s enough and we won’t consider you worthy of being talked to anymore”?

    I consider the answer obvious.

    Also, I consider that the Ven. Pope Pius XII was right to talk to the German ambassador.

    I don’t, by the way, think we have to do much looking at the evidence and concluding to see they intend to wipe us, as Catholics, of the statistics. Of course they do. Any religion worthy of the name does so with all other religions; so do we, though we do not use any methods not allowed by God’s and natural-law morality (and though some might say we have been getting a little confused in the last decades). It is an intrinsical problem of interreligious dialogue. Interreligious dialogue is a dialogue among belligerents.

    So, now something substantial after all these musings.

    First, as to that miserable problem some having issue with the “they worship the same God” (miserable because, to deny it, you have to oppose Conciliar teaching which, if anything, does not make the best effectivity). No,because the theology is all wrong. No. The theology may be, colloquially speaking, “all” wrong (though I hesitate to say so as there are, after all, true statements in the Koran), but that does not make a different god.

    As to the question When will we figure out these are not reasonable people and treat them accordingly, I’d like to know what “accordingly” means here.

    If it means, “we won’t, by means of dialogue, get them to let us live in religious freedom and should get rid of that illusion” – agree.

    If it means, “we won’t, by means of dialogue, get them to convert, and should get rid of the illusion”, I agree in principle. I have a fancy, though, that mission is perhaps more effective if accompanied by some not too much official dialogue, strictly led on orthodox lines.

    If it means, “if they attack us, we must strike back and win the war”, I agree.

    If it means, “we must attack them”, I disagree.

  73. Maltese says:

    Yes, that horrible cult, called ‘Islam’, is “peaceful”, as long as you are practicing ‘sharia’ law with them!

  74. ocalatrad says:

    That’s right, it’s all the US’s fault! Oh wait, last I checked the US was not around in the 1500s when murderous MUSLIM Turks sacked Christian villages and beheaded entire populations. Time to stop thinking in terms of ecumenical agendas and start using your reason. Kissing up to Mohammedans isn’t going to bring world peace or do anything to further the faith of Christ.

  75. Unwilling says:

    Maltese means well in hoping that Islam would be peaceful to those obeying Sharia. But it is not necessary to go back to the bloody struggles that divided Sunni from Shia. Nor to 1500 to find the Muslim Turks slaughtering Muslim Arabs. The Muslim government of Syria is today attacking its own Muslim population as well as its Muslim neighbour Lebanon. Islam is a “religion” that has no such saying as “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.” This is not a counsel of fear in danger, but of peace in truth.

  76. Terry1 says:

    It has occurred to me that Satan could have just as easily built his church upon a rock too! The Kabaa Stone that is. And furthermore not tell anyone.

    Isn’t evil the perversion of good?

  77. SKAY says:

    Lying to promote Islam

    The principle of al Taqiyya
    http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Hist/Islam-8-al-Taqiyya.htm

    I am sure Muslims will be willing to ” talk” into the next century or as long as it takes for them to
    achieve their goal.

  78. kmcgrathop says:

    @ ‘Unwilling’ – You said: “People are justifiably shocked by the topic of the thread and struggling to express dismay at the mystery of evil.” You are correct and I was not intending to offend any of those people. But there certainly is some ‘ranting and raving’ here involving unwarranted criticism not only of Muslims but also of the Holy Father and bishops who are being called all kinds of names for not, I don’t know what? Taking up AK-47s and calling for a new Crusade?

    I agree with an earlier poster that, contrary to some apocalyptic warnings, Islam is not the religion of the future. It is dying. And we are witnessing the death throes. But like a wounded beast, it is still very dangerous. Islam is dissolving in the acid bath of modernity and it has neither the intellectual nor spiritual means to come to terms with it. Instead, some small corners of the Muslim world are trying to resist by going ‘all out,’ to the extreme in everything. And while they ‘succeed’ in terrorizing and killing people where they are, in the main, they are fighting a losing battle. Recent events in Turkey, Iran and Egypt may be signs that those countries are reaching a tipping point against efforts to impose Islamist regimes there. Maybe not. But events are moving quickly. It really does take a ‘long view’ of things to think that dialogue with whatever Muslims willing to do so will be productive of anything. But our perspective ought to be eternity.

    A sidelight. Msgr. John Kozar, President of the Catholic Near East Welfare Association, discussing events in Syria and the continued presence of the Church there talked about a Franciscan Fr. Hanna, who, in spite of threats from both sides, continues to ring the church bells at Mass and at the Angelus every day. Fr. Hanna spoke of those bells as one of the few ‘signs of hope’ for the suffering Christians in his town. Hear the video clip:

    http://www.news.va/en/news/syria-franciscan-monk-killed-in-raid-on-monastery

  79. Gus Barbarigo says:

    The canonization of Joan of Arc shows that from time to time warfare can be a tactic of the Lord (one of the commenters here mentioned Mark Twain; supposedly Twain was a devotee of Joan of Arc).

    But JPII kissed the Koran, and he might be canonized this year.

    My point is, it is a disgrace, that we allow our government to fund the slaughter of Christians, and fund the restoration of the Ottman Caliphate (or its geographical equivalent).

    If St. Francis going to the Sultan, if JPII kissing the Koran, if +++ Dolan telling Muslims to keep *their* faith, isn’t enough to stop the bloodshed, then, yes, I pray somehow a Christian force will be deployed to protect Christian children, women, and men from genocide. (Fidecide?)