Paris Police quash protest over church demolition

The day after the funeral of Fr. Jacques Hamel, slain at the altar by Islamic terrorists, police storm a church in Paris, destined for demolition, and drag out the protesters.  Find the story HERE.

16_08_03_Paris_church_demolition_01

St. Rita is in the 15th.

“I think it’s like killing the priest who died last week for a second time,” one local resident said.

A parking lot is set to be built in place of the church.

Friends, churches aren’t gratis.  There are bills to pay.  If you want your church to stay open, support it.  Churches also stay open if there are priests.  If you want your church to stay open, pray for an increase of vocations to the priesthood and support well the priests you have now.

UPDATE:

I received this image and note from a reader in the know.

Billot

The young priest is Father Jean-François Billot of the Institute of the Good Shepherd… and was ordained a priest in 2010. In this image, it appears that Father de Tanoüarn is trying to celebrate Mass at the altar, while Father Billot is trying to keep the police from interrupting the Mass. The police could have and should have waited until Mass was over.

There have been many erroneous reports about L’Eglise de Sainte Rita, claiming that it is a non-Catholic Church. The Institut Bon Pasteur was asked by the young parishioners themselves to be their chaplains, after the Gallicanists who used to run it abandoned the church due to its impending demolition.

Father de Tanoüarn thought it was a good opportunity to reconcile these people, who were literally “out in the peripheries” — to be their chaplain, to provide for them the Sacraments, in full communion with the Catholic Church.

Interesting.

Toward the end of this video, you can see how the police move in on the altar.

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30 Responses to Paris Police quash protest over church demolition

  1. JustaSinner says:

    Stupid question here, but why aren’t the protestors buying it? Can’t be too expensive if they’re demolishing it for a parking lot. Taxes, does France tax church properties? Catholic Church’s, oui, Mosques, non!

  2. gracie says:

    “The owner of the property sold it after he couldn’t pay the rent anymore.”

    Doesn’t the Church in France own the property that their parishes sit on?

  3. @Gracie Not since the French Revolution or more recently the 1905 break with the Concordant… The Carholic Church only has use of the churches not technical ownership.

  4. Fr. A.M. says:

    Hello, I don’t think the church was that old (c. 1900 ?). If the church was built by Catholics or some Catholic congregation/order etc. after the Concordat, I would be cautious in saying that the state had ownership of the church. I doubt it, but I could be wrong.

  5. Fr. A.M. says:

    But, yes, there was the anti-clerical government in the 1900s. Haven’t got time now to look into it – after midnight here.

  6. Athelstan says:

    Friends, churches aren’t gratis. There are bills to pay.

    A reminder to us all that Catholics are terrible tithers. Many traditionalists included.

    I will add that the situation with St Rita’s in Paris is more complicated. Yes, the French State confiscated all Church property with the 1905 French law on the separation of Church and State, though it leaves the Church the right to use the churches without a fee. But in this case, the church is privately owned by the Association of Catholic and Apostolic chapels, and was being used for many years by an eccentric (schismatic?) Gallican church. The Gallicans were finally evicted last year, and then a local dissident group of Action Française, brought in to celebrate Masses Fr William Tanoüarn, a priest of the Institute of the Good Shepherd, which is a prominent French traditionalist priestly society regularized under Ecclesia Dei (like the FSSP and ICRSS). He is the unfortunate priest pictured being hauled off by police.

    The church owner says it needs €3 million to keep the property; otherwise, it has a deal to sell it, for demolition and conversion to a parking lot. There’s a lot of local opposition to the sale and demolition of the church, including by the Mayor of the fifteenth arrondissement. But no, it’s not a church of the Archdiocese of Paris, either owned by it, or owned by the French State but operated by it.

    So it’s hard to use this sad episode to draw much in the way of lessons from. But I will add that the optics are really horrible less than a week after the martyrdom of Fr. Hamel, especially since it was done with force.

  7. Former Altar Boy says:

    Father,
    You often remind us to pray for vocations (which, of course, we all should) but not once have a I read where you have reminded parents of their DUTY to stir up vocations among their own children. When I was a kid — in the pre-Vat2 Church — it was a regular topic or sidebar in many Sunday sermons.
    The home is the first church.

  8. Benedict Joseph says:

    Crocodile tears.
    Last week France shed its crocodile tears over Father Hamel.
    They couldn’t wait a week before the French police had to stand in for the dead terrorists.
    Trash.

  9. kiwiinamerica says:

    Judging by the riot gear, I’m guessing that these must be some of those Catholic terrorists of whom Pope Francis was recently speaking.

    Show those fundamentalists who’s boss, boys! One can always count on the French to get it straight.

  10. NBW says:

    These photos remind me of Cardinal George’s famous quote-“I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the church has done so often in human history.”

  11. Matt R says:

    The IBP probably was trying to buy it. They have their Centre du Saint Paul, and I believe another Mass location, but their founders can raise money to buy a church. They were known for it in their last years in the SSPX.

  12. andreags says:

    Father
    I think you got this one wrong. The church St. Rita has never been consecrated and has for years belonged to a private association. It has not any architectural or historic significance. “Mgr” Phillippe a so called bishop of the Gallican church rented the place for many years, and set up his own religious business in giving blessigns to pets….The name of the Church -St Rita, has nothing to do with the building, but was given by Philippe as a way of marketing his own business. So far so good……or so it would seem. But the bishop never payed the rent and when the landowner finally managed to resiliate the leasing agreement, the bishop disepeared together with the chalice, statues etc. Then the priest Thanouarn from the Institute of the good sheperd moved in and accepted to celebrate mass for the faithful belonging to the church. However, not demanding permission from the diocese of Paris. Not that there was any particular demand for the old mass in the area, as it is celebrated each sunday in the parish church 300m from St Rita. The sad part of the story is that abbe Billot decided to celebrate mass at the excact moment when the police came to clear out the occupied building. In other words: The people that cries scandal and sacrilege is the same ones who decides to celebrate Holy mass at the excact time of the evacuation is scheduled ( with a band of tv-journalists in the background) themselves blaspheme the sacred rites. We must all pray for the Church in France, but this one is nothing to crie about.

  13. Andrew D says:

    Even if we have a lousy parish priest to the point where we have to attend Sunday Mass outside the parish boundaries… FINANCIALLY SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL PARISH! Priests come and go and it would be tragic for a parish to have to close just as a good, traditionalist priest has come on board.

  14. iamlucky13 says:

    “A reminder to us all that Catholics are terrible tithers. Many traditionalists included.”

    If I remember right, from reviewing our parish’s annual financial report, and comparing to the number of registered families and Census Bureau data, the average for us is about 1%. Supposedly around 1/3 of Catholics registered with a parish attend regularly, so it’s around 3% from active Catholics, assuming the Christmas and Easter folks give almost nothing.

    The most common suggestion I hear has been 5% for your parish, and 5% for other worthy causes, including the Archbishop’s annual appeal, Catholic schools, missions and religious communities, priests and religious pensions, and charitable programs.

    The situation is rather depressing, but those who do tithe (or give to the degree they are actually able if hardship prevents a traditional tithe) should at least be encouraged that their contributions go a long ways. Most parishes do a lot with very little.

    Time is also a contribution. There’s a lot to do within a parish, and some things are even best done by average parishioners volunteering – youth in particular need to see adults taking their faith seriously by actively participating not just in the liturgy, but in the communal and catechetical aspects of parish life, too.

  15. mike cliffson says:

    The pics are enough. The Lord said of signs of the times that your local weather knowledge made you feel the wind and say sentiously” Its gonna be a scorcher!” and you are right.
    My suggestion : emulate St Nicolas Owen.

  16. jflare says:

    “The police could have and should have waited until Mass was over.”

    I do not believe this to be the case.
    When a group of people barricades themselves inside a building, they usually intend to fight. Or, at the very least, they intend making some sort of socio-political statement. I believe the Mass is holy; I do not believe this priest and congregation necessarily wished to offer Mass worthily. It has all the look to me of a group of people using a sacred rite as an excuse for defying legitimate authority. In that context, I would not expect the congregation to walk away quietly afterward. At the very least, I would expect them to find some other excuse for impeding police.
    I think the congregants had every reason to know how the case would look. Such may have been the point: Insisting on offering Mass to hinder police, knowing that doing so will make a bad scene for law enforcement.
    If I expect that the situation will look horrid regardless, I likely would give the order to enforce the law anyway and let the screamers scream. If I’m going to be demonized anyway, I gain nothing by waiting.

  17. JabbaPapa says:

    Sainte Rita is an ex-Anglican and ex-Gallican church, where there has been a Catholic Mass for less than a year. But the fight to save this church has been going on longer than that, and anyway it changes nothing about the senseless and frankly blasphemous brutality of the actions of those riot police during a Holy Mass.

    No, Sainte Rita is not canonically a parish, having been erected as such neither by the Ordinary Monseigneur Vingt-Trois, nor by the Ordinary of the Institute of the Good Shepherd — but it is clear even from the internet that this is a growing Catholic Community, including some reverts from Gallicanism, and so I certainly cannot accept the rather callous views of andreags supra.

    andreags :

    Not that there was any particular demand for the old mass in the area, as it is celebrated each sunday in the parish church 300m from St Rita

    Fr Guillaume de Tanoüarn when he started was giving one Sunday Mass for 60-120 people, and it seems that he needed to increase the number of Masses to two.

    It’s not the “area” that needed this Mass, it’s that particular community.

    It has not any architectural or historic significance

    It is not an ugly church either, far from it.

    However, not demanding permission from the diocese of Paris

    This is blatantly untrue — the truth is that the diocese gave permission for the Mass there :

    http://www.riposte-catholique.fr/perepiscopus/diocese-de-paris-ignore-leglise-sainte-rita — “on me signale que le diocèse de Paris ne voit aucun inconvénient à ce que l’abbé de Tanouärn célèbre la messe régulièrement dans cette église revenue au culte catholique. Dont acte !”

    The people that cries scandal and sacrilege is the same ones who decides to celebrate Holy mass at the excact time of the evacuation is scheduled ( with a band of tv-journalists in the background) themselves blaspheme the sacred rites. We must all pray for the Church in France, but this one is nothing to crie about.

    These statements are as callous as they are false.

    It is perfectly horrid to suggest that this faithful Catholic priest and the congregation “blasphemed” the Mass !!

  18. FatherW says:

    0) L’édifice appartient à l’Eglise Gallicane, secte hérétique promouvant le mariage des “prêtres”, les diaconesses, le remariage des divorcés, dont l’évêque autoproclamé est en couple homosexuel depuis des décennies, dont de nombreux clercs font partie d’ordres ésotériques à tendance maçonnique comme l'”Ordre Rénové du Temple” ou la “Fraternité Johannite pour la résurgence templière”.etc.

    0′) En effet, l’ “Association des Chapelles Catholiques et Apostoliques” est une association de gestion des biens cultuels de l’autoproclamée “Eglise Catholique et Apostolique Gallicane”, laquelle n’a rien à voir avec l’Eglise Catholique.

    0”) L’Eglise Gallicane n’est pas reconnue par l’Eglise catholique, et n’a pas la tradition apostolique ce qui signifie que tous ses sacrements et sacramentaux sont invalides

    0”’) Cet édifice n’est donc pas une église consacrée, et elle ne l’a d’ailleurs jamais été.

    0””) La dédicace ( = consécration) d’un édifice pour en faire une église se fait par un évêque. L’abbé de Tanouärn n’étant évidemment pas évêque, il n’a aucune autorité pour le faire validement (malgré qu’il dise avoir “fait des exorcismes” cf. son blog).

    0””’) Pour l’abbé de Tanouärn, cet édifice hérétique est un “haut lieu spirituel”, possédait “un vrai rayonnement spirituel” : on imagine : messes en hommage à Michael Jackson, bénédiction de chameaux dans l’église, mariage des couples homos, ordination de femmes diaconesses, etc. mais pour l’abbé de Tanouärn, c’est une “Maison de l’Esprit saint, où chacun pourra trouver ce Dieu qui se laisse chercher, en particulier dans la splendeur des liturgies traditionnelles”. Quelle splendeur ! :D

    1) L’Eglise Gallicane, propriétaire de l’édifice et en son bon droit, a décidé de le vendre à un promoteur immobilier

    1′) L’édifice n’est ni classé, ni inscrit aux monuments historiques et ne présente aucun intérêt architectural.

    2) L’abbé de Tanouärn explique sur son blog avoir été invité par des fidèles gallicans à célébrer la messe pour eux depuis le départ de leur dernier “prêtre”, ce à quoi il a répondu favorablement en disant une messe par semaine le dimanche à 16 heures en occupant donc illégalement cet édifice appartenant à l’Eglise Gallicane, et vendue à un tiers.

    2′) Pourtant, l’abbé de Tanouärn ne dispose d’aucune autorisation de l’Eglise Catholique pour célébrer la messe dans un édifice hérétique appartenant à une autre religion.

    2”) Et Pourtant la chapelle Notre Dame du Lys, à 300 mètres de Sainte Rita, suffit aux habitants du quartier. Une messe traditionnelle y est d’ailleurs célébrée chaque dimanche. Le diocèse de Paris n’a donc aucun besoin d’un lieu de célébration supplémentaire dans ce quartier.

    2”’) Pour l’abbé de Tanouärn les hérétiques gallicans ne sont au passage que des “catholiques dissidents” (la blague… le progressisme la nouvelle dissidence lol :D )

    2””) Les fidèles schismatiques gallicans sont excommuniés de facto ; et l’excommunication est ici normalement levée par l’évêque, du moins par sa permission. Dans le cas des messes dites par l’abbé de Tanouärn, les fidèles ont directement eu accès à l’Eucharistie, ce qui est en premier lieu un sacrilège et en second lieu une désobéissance à la hiérarchie ecclésiastique.

    3) Pendant 1 an, l’Eglise Gallicane va se lancer dans de multiples procédures pour obtenir l’expulsion de l’abbé de Tanouärn et de l’IBP de son édifice

    4) Après ordonnance du Conseil d’Etat, l’expulsion est programmée ce mercredi 3 août à 6h30, l’heure de l’expulsion est notifiée à l’abbé de Tanouärn

    5) L’abbé décide alors de dire sciemment une messe à 6 heures du matin (décision précise la veille à 22h30), afin d’être interrompu pendant sa messe. Ce qui était tout à fait inhabituel (rien à voir avec la célébration du Père Bruno de Blignières au Port Marly en 1987) puisqu’il ne célèbre que le dimanche à 16 h dans cette chapelle…

    5′) Il aurait pu célébrer à 5 h et la Ste Messe n’aurait pas été troublée par l’intervention manu militari des forces de l’Ordre : il aurait donné la Ste Communion aux fidèles qui auraient occupé l’église ensuite en disant le chapelet ou toute autre chose et c’était une forme de protestation suffisante et proportionnée. Ceci permettra de jouer les victimes sur les médias et les réseaux sociaux.

    5”) Il décide donc d’utiliser le saint sacrement comme un vulgaire moyen de buzz médiatique, au risque de placer lui-même le saint sacrement en situation de profanation par les forces de l’ordre.

    6) Une cinquantaine de jeunes, casqués et armés de boucliers sont présents dans l’édifice afin d’en empêcher l’expulsion et pour s’opposer aux forces de l’ordre.

    6′) Les bancs de l’église sont barricadés devant la porte d’entrée…

    7) À la fin de sa messe, les forces de l’ordre n’étant pas encore arrivées, il décide de faire dire une deuxième messe par son compère l’abbé Billot, ce qu’il fait (il s’agirait pas de gâcher l’effet médiatique tant désiré…).

    8) Bingo, à 7 heures les forces de l’ordre arrivent, l’affrontement a inévitablement lieu. A ce moment là on se donne des allures de “martyr” à grand renfort de publications et de médiatisations en se servant “d’idiots utiles” qui ne connaissent pas tout le dessous de l’affaire, qui sont sincèrement scandalisés, qui sont honnêtement horrifiés par l’entassement des vexations envers les cathos… etc.
    Ce faisant on cultive et développe une attitude qui n’est QUE “réactionnaire”

    9) Le groupe armé et décidé à résister par la force vient ensuite faire les victimes en dénonçant la violence des forces de l’ordre, après avoir refusé tout départ volontaire pendant 1 an, et s’être barricadé dans l’Eglise

    10) L’abbé de Tanouärn se félicite sur son compte twitter : “C’est une vraie réussite en termes de com, cette expulsion à #SainteRita … Timing et tout… Encore bravo, les gars !”

    11) La responsabilité de la profanation de la messe est entièrement endossée par l’abbé de Tanouärn, puisqu’il a volontairement décidé d’exposer le saint sacrement à l’heure de l’évacuation, au plus grand mépris des saintes espèces.

    12) La fin ne justifie pas les moyens : ni la violence pour squatter un lieu sans aucune légitimité

    12′) Ni la profanation du saint sacrement à des fins de buzz médiatique une semaine après la mort du Père Hamel

    12”) Toute cette mascarade, orchestrée par des gens en manque de reconnaissance et de lieux de culte ayant pignon sur rue, est récupérée par ceux qui réclament en permanence que le droit soit appliqué et crient à l’injustice et au blasphème, blasphème qu’eux-mêmes ont mis en scène en méprisant les rites sacrés.

    13) L’abbé Laguérie, supérieur de l’IBP, donne son aval à la pitoyable manœuvre : http://blog.institutdubonpasteur.org/La-Police-de-Valls

    14) Cette pathétique scène n’a rien du combat du siècle pour la chrétienté

  19. JabbaPapa says:

    FatherW :

    Pour l’abbé de Tanouärn, cet édifice hérétique est un “haut lieu spirituel”, possédait “un vrai rayonnement spirituel” : on imagine : messes en hommage à Michael Jackson, bénédiction de chameaux dans l’église, mariage des couples homos, ordination de femmes diaconesses, etc. mais pour l’abbé de Tanouärn, c’est une “Maison de l’Esprit saint, où chacun pourra trouver ce Dieu qui se laisse chercher, en particulier dans la splendeur des liturgies traditionnelles”. Quelle splendeur !

    Quelly hypocrisie surtout de la part de celui qui a tapé tout ce long fatras !!!

    1) Les pratiques Gallicanes ont cessé en ce lieu depuis 2015 au plus tard

    2) Le Père Guillaume de Tanoüarn avait bel et bien la permission du diocèse de célebrer ces messes

    3) “L’abbé Laguérie, supérieur de l’IBP, donne son aval à la pitoyable manœuvre : — Le Père de Tanoüarn avait donc l’appui ET de l’évêque ET de son propre Ordinaire

    4) Tes pitoyables calomnies contre les membres de la congrégation font bien évidemment horreur à lire, mais sais-tu que ce faisant tu contredis une instruction la plus claire possible du Pape Martin V, interdisant rigoureusement le refus d’association avec ceux accusés d’hérésie, à raison ou à tort, y compris même durant la Sainte Messe ?

    5) Tes accusations de “blasphème” sont très clairement issues d’une motivation ultérieure, d’un sale conflit local je suppose, et je trouve cela parfaitement indigne de la Catholicité en soi.

  20. danielinnola says:

    “The servant is not greater than the Master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you” Priests are murdered at the Altar. Priests are dragged from the Altar as they say Mass, while the faithful surround them: you can hear the sanctus bell ringing amid the screams.. Sign of the times.. Its the death of the West. Marana-tha!!

  21. danielinnola says:

    Abbè “W”..qu’importe ce qu’ils ont l’habitude d’être ? ne sommes-nous pas heureux que l’Institut du bon pasteur exerce un ministère à ces personnes en pleine communion avec l’église catholique ?

  22. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Hey, my dear Francophones – have mercy on the rest of us and repeat it in English, please! (even if only a rough translation/paraphrase/summary/precis!).

    jflare said, “In that context, I would not expect the congregation to walk away quietly afterward. At the very least, I would expect them to find some other excuse for impeding police.” I was wondering about that possibility, too, when I read of the barricade – Canonical hours? Perpetual Devotion?

    Still, if the technical sophistication of the French powers that be did not reach to discovering without intrusion what was going on inside – or even, say, by the minimally intrusive use of a glass-cutter on a plain window and a dangled microphone, they could have broken in as discreetly as possible and waited to hear ‘Ite, missa est’ before booming out the French equivalent of, ‘Right, that’s it for now!’ – and only then proceeding to shepherding, frog-marching, etc.

    ” If I’m going to be demonized anyway, I gain nothing by waiting.” Well, you would gain evidence to point to as to how much restraint you had shown, and whatever degree of respect from the reasonable who recognized that.

    But that’s not how etatistic libido dominandi works, in France or elsewhere.

  23. JabbaPapa says:

    Venerator Sti Lot :

    Hey, my dear Francophones – have mercy on the rest of us and repeat it in English, please!

    True mercy is probably to refrain from doing so — it’s rather heated.

    Still, an unpleasant allegation was made that the congregation had “armed” itself.

    See for yourselves : (that’s the Riot Police at the far end)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Co6dBPqXgAAPSnj.jpg

  24. Gail F says:

    They didn’t own the bulding. They broke in. they barricaded themselves in after they got there. They decided to hold Mass when demoltition was about to begin. I’m sorry they couldn’t have resolved this but it seems to me (from afar) that they WANTED to be dragged off. And the police obliged.

  25. jhayes says:

    This article by a reporter who was inside the church, explains something I hadn’t understood before:

    Abbé de Tanoüarn had said and finished a Mass. Then abbé Billot said a Mass, which he finished.

    By that time, the CRS had entered the church. Abbé de Tanoüarn started to say a third Mass (second for him) but when one of the CRS released some tear gas, he consumed the hosts he had consecrated and allowed himself to be led out of the church.

    http://www.valeursactuelles.com/societe/quand-les-crs-donnent-lassaut-en-pleine-messe-64008

    In a video I watched yesterday, you can see Abbé de Tanoüarn walking out of the church holding a veiled chalice.

    The reporter for this article took a photo of abbé Billot lying on the floor and being pulled up by the CRS, and wrote:

    “It was one of the few really violent moments in an operation where you could feel, on both sides, a concern to not throw unnecessary oil on the fire and, on the part of the police, of not adding brutality to the bad publicity of this outbreak of force in a place dedicated to prayer.”

  26. Ben Kenobi says:

    Eugh. I sympathize with the priests trying to keep the lights on. The problem is with the priests who are abusing their parishioners. My priest here decided it would be a good idea to split the money given to the seminarian with bringing in muslims from Syria. 10k to each. I don’t know about you, Father – but I don’t tithe to feed the wolves. There are so many fantastic Catholic missions that are actually doing the work. I’ve since directed what would go to the parish to them.

  27. danielinnola says:

    Venerator Sti Lot said; Hey, my dear Francophones – have mercy on the rest of us and repeat it in English, please! (even if only a rough translation/paraphrase/summary/precis!).

    Fair enough, but as JabbaPapa said, it would be a mercy not to.. Its heated and i became angry when i read the post of FatherW. I know the Institute of the Good Shepherd to be as fine a group of Priests as you will get anywhere.. All of them, to a Man. As you know they use exclusively the 1962 Missal.. That being said.. Abbé Tanoüarn at the invitation of the parishoners had been ministering to these people aided by Abbé Billot. Yes, there was a core group left over from the previous times, the (self styled) Gallican Church. I know nothing of this group, the allegations were made that they had married Priests, Deaconesses, that they married gay couples, that they adhered to esoteric doctrines and beliefs of some of the ultra right wing nut job French “orders” ..think Dan Brown type of craziness.. Get the pic? I dont know or care.. I do know the Institute of the Good Shepherd is a solid Orthodox vibrant, growing community of Priests who have their origin in France. They had went out to the “peripheries” to bring these people in to the fold. They had NOTHING to do with what went before.. To imply any such is deceptive. What i responded in French was this: “does it matter what they were before? Are we not happy that the Institute of the Good Shepherd is excercising ministry to these people in full Communion with the Catholic Church?”

  28. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    JabbaPapa and danielinnola,

    Thank you!

    And jhayes,

    Thank you for the additional details – including the encouraging summary about “an operation where you could feel, on both sides, a concern to not throw unnecessary oil on the fire and, on the part of the police, of not adding brutality to the bad publicity of this outbreak of force in a place dedicated to prayer”! Apparently not an egregious indulgence in libido dominandi after all!

  29. jflare says:

    Venerator said:
    “Still, if the technical sophistication of the French powers… …– and only then proceeding to shepherding, frog-marching, etc.”

    Two reasons why this does not seem to me a valid argument.
    Given that the protestors had been trespassing on property in the first place and had already barricaded themselves in. To my knowledge, Mass cannot be legitimately offered as a means to defy an otherwise just law. Even if the priest had decent intentions, I do not believe such over-rule the fact of his having attempted to offer Mass at a time when he had cause to know he would be legitimately interrupted.

    Second, from jhayes:
    “By that time, the CRS had entered the church. Abbé de Tanoüarn started to say a third Mass (second for him)…”

    We do not know what happened prior to video start. It does not appear to me from the video or subsequent information that the police acted egregiously. This seems to indicate that police could not wait for “Ite missa est” because the priest had already ended the previous Mass, but began another to buy time. Certainly the behavior of the cameraman and the other congregants seem only vaguely concerned about praying the Mass. They face the door and appear intent on documenting the “hit”.

    “Well, you would gain evidence to point to as to how much restraint you had shown, and whatever degree of respect from the reasonable who recognized that.”

    From the reading I’ve done about this, I don’t believe they had much cause to expect being held in high regard, even by reasonable people. When you know you’ll be chastised regardless of how long you wait, you may as well act. There’s no point in attempting to make it “look better” when the opposing side intends to drag it out until the issue is forced.

  30. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    jflare,

    Assuming the information jhayes reports is accurate, it would seem to me that the CRS-police did in fact wait with considerable circumspection and self-restraint for two masses to be celebrated (or at least broke in serendipitously after they had been), and (on the assumption it was not serendipity but deliberate action) did indeed gain evidence to point to as to how much restraint they had shown, and whatever degree of respect from the reasonable who recognized that.

    About the intentions and prudence of the priests and laity, and the canonical and moral (im)permissibility of their actions, I am not knowledgeable enough to say anything.

    I have not yet brought myself to watch the films, and have not yet read more about the events and their historical background than has been variously given in English here.

    About the (im)propriety of using the CRS at this point in these circumstances, I cannot voice an informed opinion either – my prima facie impression of excess (whatever restraint was shown in the execution of formal duties) may well be mistaken (or, conversely, justified).