Want some “lío”? I’ve got your “lío” right here!

¿Este será el ‘lío’ que quiere el Papa?

Some young people could be taking Pope Francis at his word when the other day he said, precisely to young people, “quiero lío en las dioceses… I want a mess in dioceses”.  Francis continued: “May the bishops and priests forgive me if some of you create a bit of confusion afterwards. That’s my advice. Thanks for whatever you can do.” HERE

That’s when I opined:

¡Va a haber lío! ¿Motivo #5 para Summorum Pontificum?

It could be that a group of young people in Argentina think along those same lines: Get out and raise a ruckus for what you hold to be important.

According to the blog Página Católica, young Catholics are preparing (“preparan”) to protest outside the Basílica San José de Flores by picketing across a major avenue.  There could be a little ribbing involved in the post. After we read “fuera de bromas… kidding aside”, the post says they intend to stay there until the Archdiocese permits, in that church, Holy Mass according to the Extraordinary Form.

The blog goes on to talk about how Francis’ words about “lío” could have political impact.

What interests me, however, is that some young people want the older form of Mass.

Are protests are in order?

Let there be lío!


I guess the combox over at that Spanish language site, linked above, has some pretty awful things about Pope Francis.  Alas, the fever-swamp transcends language groups.  Disappointing, but true.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. Elizabeth D says:

    Hilarious. Yay lío! My Cathedral Parish already has the EF and I already went to it this morning.

    Siguiendo las palabras del Papa, algunos jóvenes que lo oyeron y que no quieren ser tenidos por lentos, ya preparan un piquete que cortará la Av. Rivadavia al 6950, al frente de la Basílica San José de Flores donde Francisco descubrió su vocación hace muchos años, planeando permanecer allí hasta que las autoridades de la Arquidiócesis permitan sea celebrada en el hermoso templo el Modo Extraordinario del Rito Romano, injustamente prohibido por voluntad del mismo que ahora invita a hacer lío.

  2. Gratias says:

    Halfway down the comments in Página Católica is the video of this speech. If you understand Spanish do not miss it.

  3. sw85 says:

    I hope there was some needed qualification about the nature and extent of “mess” permissible. Else no doubt Helmut Schuller and the like would think “But that’s what I’ve been doing!!!” (Not that they’d need a permission slip, but still).

  4. Magpie says:

    What is that in English Elizabeth?

  5. JoseTomas says:

    Reading the comments on the linked-to page, one could be confused into thinking that he is reading:

    (a) The New York Times combox
    (b) A militant atheist webpage
    (c) A radical “Rome-is-Babylon” Protestant blog

    I have rarely read such disgusting words referred to a pope outside these kinds of publications. This one kind of summarizes the general mood:

    “un piquetero de las cosas sagradas,
    populista de baja estofa”

    Now, I would ask those RadTrads over there (and, unfortunately, present in several other like-minded blogs) if they really think that this behavior is something that makes the Lord happy. And, from a purely pragmatic point of view, if they think that this is a behavior that is likely to attract more people to their cause.

    The only other place where I have read such disgusting language applied to a pope was in the Fishwrap (in that case, the target was Benedict). That people who call themselves Catholic (and not any kind of Catholic, but THE Catholics, the REAL ones, the remnant and so forth!) are so much blinded by pride that they think that (putantes se obsequium Dei praestare, of course) they can talk about the pope (!) using language usually found in the mouths and pens of the most rabid enemies of the Church, is a fact that is beyond me and altogether sad.

    If good liturgy is all that is necessary to “save the world”, [That “all” is your word, and not what we say around here.] but the fruits are these, I think there is something very wrong with this picture. Obviously there are many cases of people attached to the Traditional Liturgy that seem to be bearing only the fruits of the Evil One.

    Oh, and let us not say these kind of things to them, since they suddenly go all fishwrappy and start accusing you of being “judgmental”.

  6. Elizabeth D says:

    Magpie, I do not know Spanish well but this is my attempt at translation with slight help from Google Translate (if someone knows more Spanish than me then you can help):

    Following the words of the Pope, some youths who heard and did not want to be considered sluggish, have prepared a picket that will (strike?) 6950 Avenue Rivadavia, in front of the Basilica San Jose de Flores where Francis discovered his vocation many years since, planning to remain there until the authorities of the Archdiocese permit to be celebrated in the beautiful temple the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, unjustly prohibited by the will of the same [ie Cdl Bergoglio] who now invites them to make trouble (“hacer lío”).

  7. Random Friar says:

    Others have opined, but I would say “lío” in this context would be close to “commotion.” Imagine a room filled with proper, prim ladies-in-waiting. Now add squirrels, cats and dogs. In other words, our Faith is beautiful, but it can’t only be a static museum. It must be breathing, living, and active, and not afraid.

    An an aside, some Caribbean-Spanish speakers have a reputation for soft “r” sounds, so lío and río are even closer. Other Spanish speakers will sometimes make fun of Puerto Ricans, (puertorriqueños) for example, calling them “Puertolicans” (puertoliqueños).

  8. KosmoKarlos says:

    There’s “Lio” and then there’s Extraordinary “Lio”.

  9. Raymond says:

    Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI had different personalities, but both had that pre-1960s, European polyglot education and both behaved as gentlemen scholar-clerics. Francis, on the other hand, is very much the Latin American populist. He is definitely the product of the 1960s Jesuit formation. Had a different Latin American cardinal been elected, say, Maradiaga of Honduras or Cipriani of Peru, I think we would have seen a more “conventional” papal style. As Pope Francis himself said, I pray that he makes as few mistakes as possible.

  10. JoseTomas says:

    I do not know of Maradiaga, but I am very grateful to God that Cipriani was not even considered. Not only he is Opus Dei, but the worst kind of Opus Dei possible.

    Opus Dei is a marvelous example of how the Devil can make his way into the Church. As a former member, I know what I am talking about. If anyone want to know the full story, just go to http://opuslibros.org

    Opus Dei is “approved by the church”? Surely it is. So is the Legion of Christ.

    The canonization of his founder and, now, the coming beatification of his successor, is the most glaring argument against the turbo-canonizations that have been taking place. And against the ill-considered suppression of the “Defensor of Faith” (the Devis’s Advocate) role.

    Given that the real history of “Saint” Josemaria Escrivá is already out there while the Vatican looks the other way, I think that the greatest contribution of Opus Dei to the Church will be (eventually) the revision of the canonization process. Mind you, it is not a case of information that “will” be made public, the information has been public for years. Escrivá’s successor is about to be beatified, even though he was the responsible for the cover up of the very questionable writings of Escrivá (in my view, downright heretical), which were conveniently subtracted from the canonization process. In particular, Escrivá violated the Quemadmodum of 17-XII-1890 and several canons of the CIC (both 1917 and 1983).

    It is sad that many faithful catholics still fall in Opus Dei’s traps. It is specially sad that the Church will eventually have to deal with the evidences that are already there that some of the recently canonized saints are no example for anybody.

    But I have FAITH in the LORD! I do not know what this all means, and I guess that, since the only saint canonized by the Lord was a thief, then everybody can be canonized. Nevertheless, the Church should be much more careful in its canonization process, lest the “saint making process” becomes discredited as a whole.

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