VIDEO: Sermon for Archbishop Sample’s 1st Pontifical Mass – MUST SEE

“When Summorum Pontificum came out, and the Holy Father said this is one of the forms of the Latin Rite, the Extraordinary Form, I said ‘I’m a bishop of the Church, I must know this rite!’  And I encourage my priests and my seminarians to learn and to know this rite.  Even if you never have a chance to celebrate it, knowing it, experiencing it – I guarantee you – will affect the way you celebrate the Ordinary Form.  It will do so.”

Archbishop Sample’s 1st Pontifical Mass at the Throne.  There is a super high quality video of the Archbishop’s sermon.  He talks about the importance of using the Extraordinary Form:

You can tell that they were in a small space, and had to adapt a little to fill the space properly.

There are 351 views of the video as I post this.  See if you can make this popular.

The Traditional Mass is not going away.  It will not be stopped.


About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, Be The Maquis, Benedict XVI, Hard-Identity Catholicism, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, Our Catholic Identity, SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.


  1. ByzCath08 says:

    Very nice. He seems to be a friend of the EF. God bless the Archbishop. He’s in the lion’s den in the state of Oregon.

  2. Marcus 22 says:

    You can also see additional photos of the Pontifical Mass here:

  3. Sonshine135 says:

    Wow! What a beautiful explanation of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. May the Archbishop’s time be fruitful with an exponential increase in vocations. If he can do it in Oregon, it can be done anywhere. God Bless him abundantly.

  4. Andkaras says:

    So wonderfully done . Who edited this piece? There are I believe ,a great number of us who would like to have these Masses available to us to attend occasionally,such as once a month perhaps. And most certainly as an option for weddings ,funerals, baptisms,first Holy Communions ,Confirmations, even renewal of Vows ( can that be done?). But in my area they are just too far away. There is however an SPXX chapel with in 10 minutes. So tempting. So sad.

  5. lsclerkin says:


    Bishops and priests inside …er…unfriendly territories, lions dens, such as Portland, OR , and Madison, WI are now the ones leading the surging bloom of the EF.
    Did we ever think we’d see THAT?

    That has got to be a sure sign from Heaven that there is no going back to the 70’s+.
    There’s no stopping this. Patience, as His Excellency so wisely says. And smile.

  6. danhorse says:

    Thanks for posting this, Fr. Z. Oregon is fortunate to have Archbishop Sample.

  7. danhorse says:

    Marcus 22, thank-you for letting us see these fabulous photos.

  8. mburn16 says:

    Alright, I confess myself ignorant on something – hopefully I don’t look too foolish asking this,

    but what is the red garment the Archbishop is wearing underneath his chasuble? And, in particular, why is it red?

    [Bishops, when properly vested, also wear a dalmatic under the chasuble, and a tunic under the dalmatic. I suspect they were limited in the color of dalmatics available.]

  9. Truly, Archbishop Sample is one of the greatest Bishops I have ever heard. His approach is perfect, uniting charity and verities in his words and actions.

  10. Charles E Flynn says:

    This is an absolutely first-rate video, well worth viewing and reviewing full-screen.

  11. RANCHER says:

    Oregon is split in two. The Archdiocese of Portland which covers the western (populated) part of the state and the Diocese of Baker which covers a larger geographic area but much smaller in population. Unfortunately I live in the Diocese which is not led by Abp Sample and which does not have a EF Mass regularly scheduled in any parish in the diocese. The drive to an EF Mass in the Archdiocese is over 350 miles. I only hope and pray that the Influence of the Archbishop spreads east into our Diocese. Abp Sample’s sermon was outstanding, exceeded only by the beauty and solemnity of the liturgy he celebrated.

  12. Chon says:

    Thanks for posting this beautiful video of Abp. Sample’s first pontifical high Mass in Oregon. I can’t believe it’s only the fourth one he’s ever done. How encouraging to see an FSSP priest at the altar here. I wonder if we’ll have an FSSP parish in Portland eventually.

    Kudos to Fr. Vincent Kelber and Fr. Eric Andersen for all their hard work as MCs…and for training the altar boys.

  13. nadine says:

    I wanted to mention that this took place at the only Brigittine Monastery for men in the last 500 years in the whole world. Please pray for vocations to this monastery, as they have only nine (?) monks left– and buy some of their amazing fudge! (I’m not part of the monastery, but as a friend and fellow Oregonian I feel a special call to pray for their growth!) Here is the link for the fudge
    I thank God for the gift of our new Archbishop.

  14. Elizium23 says:

    I’m more concerned about the state of the OF than the EF, and he’s ideally positioned to reform the reform all up in OCP’s business. I’m patiently waiting for the hammer to fall here. This homily gives me renewed hope.

  15. Chon says:

    Elizium: What EF? It’s nearly non-existent here in the Archdiocese of Portland. But yes, by all means, in addition to giving us long-suffering Oregonians the EF, which I’ve mainly gone without for 45 years, let’s reform the OF for when there’s flooding and I can’t drive to downtown Portland!

    However, don’t hold your breath about hammers falling here…the Archbishop is more like a firm loving father. It’s so healing just to be in his presence.

  16. Absit invidia says:

    This holy man of God is the real deal. He is a TRUE prince of the Apostles. In charity, in truth, in virtue. Glad to have him as our Archbishop here in Oregon.

  17. Chon says:

    Fudge link:

    I speak from experience: this is really great fudge!! And even better is the sweet spirit of these Brigittine monks. If you’re looking for a place to be a monk, I hope you’ll come visit them.

  18. Sword40 says:

    Oregon also has a great priest at St. Birgitta’s in NW Portland (Fr. Luan Tran) The EF Mass is celebrated there at 8:00 am each Sunday. Small parish but active.

  19. Gratias says:

    A great sermon. Bishop Sample understands the most important point in public speaking: speak LOUDLY and to those at the back of the room. Wish more priests realized this simple fact. We are blessed to have such a great man in Portland.

  20. Chon says:

    Sword40–yes, we love Fr. Luan Tran. Unfortunately, St. Birgitta’s is way out in the industrial section with no bus service on Sundays, on a road that’s dangerous for bicycling. And for drivers it’s a dangerous turn into the parking lot. I’ve nearly wiped out there twice. And 8:00 a.m. ? Come on. We need an EF that’s accessible to the poor, in a central location, at a time that takes pride of place.

    The few times I’ve been there and have tried to sing my parts at the EF Mass (e.g. a simple melody for the Creed, Sanctus, etc.) I’ve gotten the evil eye from fellow worshippers who expect the congregation to be mute (Fr. Luan would not approve, but it happens). No thanks. We can do much better than this.

    [I am with Fr. Tran. I prefer when congregations respond. Fellow worshipers who give others the evil eye are part of the reason why there are not even more attending the TLM.]

  21. Hank Igitur says:

    Why not the Holy Mass itself rather than this commentary? The Mass speaks for itself, powerfully.

  22. Brooklyn says:

    I love the Latin Mass, but I am becoming very concerned with the militancy of many who support the Mass, the Fisher More situation being a prime example. It greatly concerns me that ALL sedevancantist groups are “traditionalist.” That is certainly not to say that all traditionalists are sedevancantist, but it does explain why so many bishops are wary of traditionalists. I would be if I were a bishop.

    Traditionalists need to learn tolerance and patience, and they need to concede that one can be a good Catholic without the TLM. With all due respect, Father, if “Save the liturgy, save the world” is true, then what about all the groups who “saved the liturgy” and ended up outside the Church, the SSPX being a prime example? [I don’t get the connection.] We are told by the written Word of God that he looks at a “humble and contrite heart”‘ not which form of Mass we attend. [It is possible that God can multitask. That said, God cannot be fooled. One cannot hide pride from God.]

  23. texsain says:

    Brooklyn: “It greatly concerns me that ALL sedevancantist groups are “traditionalist.””

    My first thought is to ask you who else you’d even expect to be a sedevancantist.

    My second thought is to point out that many liberals are probably de facto sedevancantists since they reject the legitimacy of the papacy itself.

  24. Pingback: TLM lauded in Pontifical Mass Homily by Portland Archbishop Sample | dclatinmass

  25. Arele says:

    Sooo grateful to have Archbishop Sample here in Oregon!

    We pray for him. Oregon is truly a battlefront for the soul of the nation. One of the most unchurched states in the nation – first to vote for legalizing euthanasia, almost half of all abortions paid for with taxpayer dollars. Oregon is letting a lot of evil into the entire nation.

    Honestly, with this sort of spiritual warfare going in here, we need a spiritual antidote. And we are blessed to have someone like Archbishop Sample. Very blessed.

    But he needs our prayers. He’s on the frontlines!

  26. wmeyer says:

    Bishops and priests inside …er…unfriendly territories, lions dens, such as Portland, OR , and Madison, WI are now the ones leading the surging bloom of the EF.

    And where might the need be greater than in these hostile territories?

    I pray the good Abp. will have a most beneficial impact on OCP, as well.

  27. Arele says:


    I agree! Where might the need be greater? Praise God!

    Also, I hear that the Archbishop Sample is working on OCP (of great concern to me as well). It struck me when he said “patience” in his sermon in this video. My first thought when I heard this was about OCP – that he is taking that approach to OCP here as well. I needed to hear that too.

    Oregon Catholic Press influences not only Oregon, but the nation and even the world, most especially the music, and the Archdiocese of Portland has great authority over it. When Archbishop Sample was sent here by Pope Benedict XVI, my personal opinion, and deepest hope, was that he was chosen for Portland in particular because of his keen interest in music.

    He revamped all of the music in the Diocese of Marquette before he left. If you haven’t yet, read his pastoral letter on music written just before he came to Portland:

    And in this video today, we see he brings this same sense of the sacred to the liturgy in his respect for the EF. And such clarity too!

    We are so blessed!

  28. Robbie says:

    I enjoyed his sermon. He’s a wonderful speaker and I’m glad to know he’s encouraged his priests and seminarians to learn the TLM. I also found it interesting he said his saying the TLM would probably raise a few eyebrows.

  29. “And I encourage my priests and my seminarians to learn and to know this rite. Even if you never have a chance to celebrate it, knowing it, experiencing it – I guarantee you – will affect the way you celebrate the Ordinary Form. It will do so.”

    Indeed, it will! Among the numerous priests I know who have learned the celebrate the EF, I’ve never seen an exception to the rule that attending an OF Mass celebrated by an EF-knowledgeable priest is a sure guarantee of a properly celebrated Mass. So, as a devotee of both forms, I’m grateful that my own bishop is encouraging seminarians to learn the EF.

    I’ve always thought it likely that Pope Benedict restored the EF non only to preserve the Church’s greatest liturgical treasure, but perhaps even primarily to serve as a model for the reform of the OF. Perhaps a good variant of Fr. Z’s dictum (especially for bishops) would be

    “Support the EF, Save the OF.”

    Fr. Z's Gold Star Award

    [Much of what the Archbishop said here is what I have been saying for years. Learning the traditional form will change how a priest says Mass in the newer form. That will have a knock on effect on the congregation over time. However… I am beginning to sense a disturbance in the force. I am picking up hints that a slithery counter-argument is being launched by some liberals, some bishops, against priests who have quite properly taken in the Benedictine vision.]

  30. jameeka says:

    Very good point, Henry Edwards

  31. Fool_for_Christ says:

    Kudos Archbishop Sample!

    RANCHER: There is an EF Mass at Annunciation Monastery in Gilchrist, OR which is the Baker Diocese.

  32. Mike says:

    Thank you so much for this link, Father. May Our Lord shower you and Archbishop Sample with blessings.

    Also, I believe you are spot-on with respect to congregational responding. My favorite celebrations of the Traditional Mass are those in which the congregation unites its responses with those of the server or the choir. Hostile reactions to such participation have the capacity to set back the TLM (again) as surely as the undermining or outright abandonment of the Missale Romanum, accompanied by infantile hymnody and homiletic idiocy, have wrecked the Novus Ordo.

    Can one doubt that the paucity of reverent worship in the authentic spirit of both St. Pius X and the Second Vatican Council has contributed to the ruin of millions of souls?

  33. Brooklyn says:

    Father Z, you say you don’t understand the connection between “saving the liturgy” and the SSPX. I think that Bishop Sample actually explained it very well at the end of his sermon when he said, “We can have the most beautiful liturgy in the world but if we do not have love, it is for nothing.” He admonishes us never to be bitter or angry. Yet, that is mostly what I read on the vast majority of traditional websites and blogs and what I hear from my traditionalist friends. Certainly that bitterness and anger is very apparent in the Fisher More situation.

    Bishop Sample said that without love, the TLM, as beautiful as it is, becomes nothing more than a show. What is the connection to the SSPX? No one physically does the Mass better than the SSPX, [I’m not sure about that.] who say they accept the validity of the Pope but refuse to submit to his authority. There is also the SSPV, who actually denounce the pope as valid. Both of these groups have done much to “save the liturgy.” But they have done it through pride and rebellion. My point is that just the physical celebration of the liturgy will not save the world. All of the sedevacantist groups illustrate that loudly and clearly. Go to any of their websites, and they are awash in traditional worship. But as Bishop Sample says, it’s nothing more than a show. [Did Archbp. Sample say that what they are doing is “nothing more than show”? I don’t think he did.]

    I like Henry Edwards’ slogan.

  34. lsclerkin says:

    I will say this in defense of “angry” traditionalists:

    YOU live 50 years being beat up, denied, refused, even mocked by your own inside the Church, and see if it doesn’t make you a little cranky, too.
    Now, let’s go forward with patience, smiles in our hearts and in our eyes, confident that this will and is passing.

  35. ray from mn says:

    For the record, it should be acknowledged that Abp. Sample is the former Bishop of Marquette , Michigan. When he was first elevated, he was the youngest bishop in the country.

    “Brooklyn” is concerned “that ALL sedevancantist groups are “traditionalist.” He should keep in mind that the liberals of the left don’t considered themselves “sadevacantists” because they are “ex-Catholics.” They leave the Church and often form their own with a theology more to their liking.

  36. momoften says:

    Thank you for posting this Father, I enjoyed it immensely. I have had the chance to meet Archbishop Sample, my sons flocked to him and enjoyed him so. I am so thankful the Church has him as
    one of our shepherds.

  37. Chon says:

    It seems to me that the schismatic groups didn’t save the liturgy; how can it be The Liturgy when there’s no Real Presence?

    (Please note that I very carefully did not say which groups are, or or not, schismatic).

  38. Chon says:

    Isclerkin: Yes, true. I think there are a lot of very hurt people out there. When things went wild with liturgical abuse and the attitudes that went with it, that was the worst abuse one can imagine. Spiritual abuse is far worse than physical or verbal abuse. I wish there were some sort of ministry specifically for the healing of these deep wounds.

  39. Pingback: Archbishop Sample Pontifical Mass Homily | East Idaho Latin Mass

  40. Chon says:

    Arele: Here’s a sign of hope for you, in case you haven’t noticed one of the changes at OCP. The Catholic Sentinel no longer publishes Rolheiser’s column. Instead, we have Fr. Barron in that spot. Alleluia!

  41. Brooklyn says:

    One last post, Father, and I promise not to clog up your combox anymore. For those of you responding to my comment that all sedevacantist groups are “traditionalists” by saying that liberal groups are also sedevacantist, you are not understanding the meaning of “sedevancantist.” Liberals recognize the pope for who he is, but they are refusing to submit to him. They don’t like his rules and the dogma of the Church, and they are rejecting it. There is no doubting where they are coming from. They are rejecting the Catholic religion and make no bones about it. The liberals are up front saying they don’t like the teachings of the Church and they want to change it. They most definitely do not question that the pope is the head of the Church.

    Sedevacantists say that there is no valid pope, and most say there has not been a valid pope since Pius XII. These people describe themselves and see themselves as “loyal sons of the Church.” They embrace what they see as Catholic tradition. Most profess a great devotion to Our Lady, they say the Rosary, they pray to the saints. But they say that the Vatican is no longer the true Catholic Church, and the man sitting in the Chair of Peter is an imposter. And these people, without exception, are “traditionalists.” Now that most certainly does not describe all traditionalists by any means, but it does point out that there is a danger in the traditionalist movement, and I think this is what scares most bishops. They can never be completely sure what they are dealing with when confronted with people who want the Latin Mass.

    We really need to listen to the words of the good Archbishop in this video. If Traditionalists want their message to be accepted, they have to stop seeing the Church as their enemy. They have to be willing to submit to the authority of the Church, they have to be supportive of the Magesterium and not bashing it every time they think something is wrong. They need to take these things to Our Lord in prayer. Christ has been taking care of the Church for 2000 years, and though we have gone through some very stormy seas, He has never let us down. And He won’t let us down now.

    Thank you, Father Z, for allowing me to have my say. I promise I’m done.

  42. Brooklyn says:

    I’m sorry, Father, but I didn’t see your comment in my last post. Archbishop Sample around 21:00 to 22:00 minutes said, “If we show love, then we change the face of the world. So let’s not ever forget, as much as we may want to get every word right in the liturgy, and as much as we want to get every movement down perfectly in the liturgy, if we do not have love, then it’s just a show, so let’s be people filled with love.”

  43. Michael says:

    Incredible video. Purely incredible.

  44. Elizium23 says:

    I think I can accurately describe the split between traditionalists of the extreme variety and liberals thus: sedevacantists cling to a Church that they believe once was, while liberals cling to a Church that has never been. What do they have in common? They cannot accept the hermeneutic of continuity for different reasons, while the True Church has always preached a hermeneutic of continuity even if it did not acquire that name until recently.

    What’s the difference between both of them and faithful Catholics? Faithful Catholics read it all in context. We know the value of obedience and trust. We are willing to defend a Church and a hierarchy and accept them, blemishes and all, as our patrimony. We understand that there is only one Church protected by the Holy Spirit and Christ’s promise, and that Church is not a splinter or a branch, but the solid trunk, an edifice foundation built on solid rock and Truth, and not on the shifting sand of public opinion or some imaginary history.

  45. amsjj1002 says:

    There’s almost 3,600 views as of this posting. This is one I’ve be listening again and again.
    God bless and protect him!

  46. Dundonianski says:

    Truly an inspirational homily from the good Archbishop, but perhaps to the detriment of his career prospects! Listening to his words however, he probably has no concern other than to serve his flock. Once again, we who treasure the Old Rite , don’t want to address the elephant in the room and sadly it is the Bishop of Rome. Francis will offer no encouragement in this respect; as recently as February 14 during the Czech ad lumina visit, Francis voiced his surprise at young people becoming attracted to the old rite-in addition he described this sacred rite as “a kind of fashion” , very much at odds with the sentiments expressed by Abp Sample. Given that this was reported in the Czech section of Vatican Radio following conversation with Ab Graubner, one cannot but remain fearful and cautious.

  47. Chon says:

    I don’t think Abp. Sample cares about a career. I think he cares about us. Thanks be to God.

  48. Michael says:

    I think he has a particularly good point about spreading the traditional liturgy with love. It’s really the only way the cause will spread well, but it can be so difficult because so many people misunderstand why the traditional liturgy is necessary in the life of the Church, and this gives way to discouragement and negativity. Miserere nobis, Domine, per mortem tuam resurrectionemque.

  49. I am cloudowl says:

    O that we had hard-identity, courageous leaders of this calibre in England!

  50. mburn16 says:

    To what extent are Priests actually trained in the performance of the liturgy before they’re turned loose onto the flock? I sometimes wonder how much of the chaos of the OF spawned from the fact that, until it came to be, Priests had no experience with it, and no concept of how it “should” be done. Before the Novus Ordo was propagated, after all, anyone becoming a Priest would be performing more or less the same mass he had attended since childhood – almost like a family tradition, the way a son might fish the same way his father did or a daughter tuck her own children into bed with the same stories she was told as a young girl. I imagine if it was introduced today, instead of decades ago, with the availability of the internet and instructional youtube videos, and all other manner of things, it would go far more smoothly.

    But ultimately, the point is well made: all Priests should know the EF. Even if their Latin is no better than the late Cardinal Cushing’s, they should be able to perform the acts of the liturgy. There is an undeniable capacity for mutual enrichment.

    That said, I don’t think either the EF as we know it, nor the OF, provides the liturgical end game. Its somewhat problematic when the “universal” church has less consistency in its liturgical practices than even many Protestant denominations. Even setting aside the Eastern rites, you’ve got the EF, the OF, and the Ordinate. At some point, you’re going to have to bring them together into a unified a unified order. Probably into something most closely resembling the Anglican Ordinate, influenced by the OF, that can also be said in Latin. TLM lovers will need to be as willing as everyone else to accept the changes if we want to put things back on track.

  51. Elizium23 says:

    I think that traditionalism and the radical elements growing out from it represent a symptom of a certain disease. This disease is the attachment of people to a certain form of liturgy or a certain personality of their leaders, rather than attachment to the Gospel of Christ and the Church which He founded.

    I see this problem in a nascent way in my friend who attends a licit EF at a diocesan territorial parish here. He often extols the virtues of the TLM to me and with this I agree. However, he and his family has shown the tendency to follow his pastor wherever he goes and their disdain for the OF. He had many criticisms for my conservative OF parish, some of which was the architecture, which I readily agreed, but he just can’t stand anything but his own parish with anything but the EF. His pastor also celebrates the OF in Latin, ad orientem with Gregorian chant, but that’s not good enough for this friend. He has attended SSPX in the past when he had trouble finding an accessible licit EF.

    The only thing keeping this friend safe from a schismatic mentality is the faithfulness of his pastor to our bishop. If this friend was attending anything but a diocesan parish then he would quickly begin criticism of the hierarchy and renouncing Vatican II. His is a dangerous and precarious position.

    I see it in myself as well. I am attached to my current pastor, and while I attend the OF, I tolerate but do not accept horrible music and bad behavior from the assembly as part of my experience. I would find it hard to tolerate a less-faithful pastor. I would probably parish-shop if my current pastor were reassigned. I regret these feelings of mine, because I should be ready to follow anyone who represents the Church in good faith. But I have this artificial conception now, grown and fostered by my life online, of what is a faithful priest and what a good liturgy looks like. My standards are rising impossibly high. I wince when I am a traveling visitor in a strange parish and the slightest liturgical abuse becomes apparent. This is not a healthy spirituality. This is not charity and tolerance, this is Pharasism.

    May God preserve me from criticism of members of the hierarchy I do not like, especially those who are immediately concerned with my pastoral care. May God grant me peace and charity to accept the things I cannot change. And may God grant the Church the perseverance to raise up worthy pastors who are always faithful and obedient, and worthy of all our trust.

  52. StnyPtGuy says:

    To get back on track …

    If I heard correctly, Abp. Sample was at the monastery for a chant conference of some kind. It sounds as if this was for singers and parish liturgists (and such) in his Archdiocese. In other words, it appears the object of the exercise was to bring the fruits of Summorum Pontificum to parishes in the Portland Archdiocese.

    The other question at hand is: how has Abp. Sample been able to rein in the damaging influence of OCP?

    Perhaps someone else can bring us up to speed on this?

  53. kpoterack says:

    StnyPtGuy: “The other question at hand is: how has Abp. Sample been able to rein in the damaging influence of OCP?”

    KP: You can dismiss this as hearsay, but what I heard from a fairly knowledgeable priest was this: It is a tricky situation with OCP because, while the archbishop is indeed on the board of directors, he only has one vote. He can’t simply do what he wants because it is a private corporation, not simply a publishing wing of the archdiocese. He also told me that the archbishop has been quietly talking to individual employees and has found that quite a few of them are not on board with what has been the prevailing philosophy at OCP. There probably is more. The point is, Archbishop Sample will have to engage in some pretty tricky political maneuvering.

  54. lsclerkin says:

    Nothing hurts more than that. And if done to you by your own, that’s the worst.

  55. Mike says:

    Fr. Z comments:

    I am picking up hints that a slithery counter-argument is being launched by some liberals, some bishops, against priests who have quite properly taken in the Benedictine vision.

    It would be not be a surprise to find that there are ossified unreconstructed immanentizers of the eschaton still scattered about Catholicism’s chanceries who don’t mind using the Mass as a political football, as some of their forebears have done throughout the last half century. Not only do TLM-friendly priests tend to be better liturgists, they tend to be better homilists, and now and then they can be expected to fall afoul of ordinaries whose political skills outstrip their ability to preach the timeless Faith. Everyone affected by these inevitable contretemps needs our prayers, clergy and laity alike.

  56. ByzCath08 says:

    @Elzium23…I don’t know that I would paint traditionalism as symptoms of a disease of attachment to a liturgical form or person. Those who attend the EF of the mass are following Christ, His Gospel and His church. Just as those who attend the OF of the mass are doing the same, just as those of us who are Eastern Rite Catholics are following Christ, His Gospel and His church.

    For me as an Eastern Catholic, I am not so much attached to the Divine Liturgy as I am to the spirituality and practice of the Eastern Church. You do not find this anywhere but the Eastern Church. The same can be said for the EF in the Latin Church. There is a unique spirituality in following the traditional calendar, practices, devotions, etc of the EF that you do not find in the OF.

    To be sure, there are those who refuse to find anything good in the OF. But there are just as many, if not more, who refuse to find anything good in the EF and say that those who strive to be saints by following the EF are just be hardheads for tradition.

  57. Elizium23 says:

    Thanks for your reply, ByzCath08. I understand where you are coming from. I really do, because I have experienced and loved Eastern liturgy for myself. In fact I have more experience with that than I do with the EF. I feel that everyone is called to enjoy the Catholicity of all Rites in the 23 Churches, and we should seek the dual goal of mutual enrichment while retaining a good separation and clear identity of the different patrimonies. My parochial vicar is biritual in the UGCC, and oh how he would love to celebrate the OF ad orientem. I think our pastor would let him, it’s just a question of whether the parishioners would let our pastor let him. This came up in my discussion with the friend who is attached to the EF. It’s often not a question of what the pastors want but a question of how much can they get away with until it begins to impact the collection plate and the overall sentiment among parishioners who are attached to clown masses and puppets.

    Now, if you are willing to go whole hog, learn the EF, celebrate it with all the smells and bells, and perhaps even offer a similar OF, you are likely to become a magnet parish that doesn’t have to worry about low collections or young families. But if you’re a hardworking suburban pastor who just wants to add a little Latin, chant, and reverence to his OF, expect to get a good amount of pushback and not a significant amount of people taking their toys and going to find another home. This is the disease I am talking about, the disease infecting liberals and conservatives alike. There are people who want their clown masses and puppets and they will parish-shop to get it. They don’t accept Tradition and liturgical patrimony. They don’t accept the wisdom of the hiearchy. They have a preconceived idea of how liturgy should be, and it’s invariably at odds with how the rank-and-file pastors and bishops envision it.

    Don’t get me wrong. I think we should assert our rights for better liturgy. But I think we should work to improve it across-the-board, rather than just in one place we like. We should band together and form and join associations that work toward better sacred art, music, architecture, vestments, retention of classical languages and education thereof. We should seek out likeminded parishioners and join our voices with theirs. It is spitting in the wind if we restrict ourselves to blog-comment posts and forum discussions. We have to take action and +Sample is a representative of that concrete action! May God bless him and his work!

  58. Sonshine135 says:


    You will find this interesting. I went the opposite way where I left a “Faith Community” and went to a church where they celebrate a very reverent OF Mass. Here’s the kicker- When I talked with Father after Mass, he told me he has been getting a lot of negativity about the changes he has made. It brought him great joy to hear that we came to the church because of the reverence of the liturgy (notice, I did not say OF or EF). I told him, “Don’t worry. The number of parishioners will grow.” He agrees, and he stated that he believes what people are looking for “is something authentic.”Amen.

    I will say that I believe a lot of the negativity around the OF is because of Catholics, like myself, who have gone to these banal, rock concert liturgies for so long. Finally, one day, we read the blogs and we go to an EF Mass. I recall that my first reaction was tears of joy, but that was quickly followed by anger. Anger over the fact that Priests and Bishops were all to willing to throw everything to the curb- the altars, the rails, the lofts, the statues, and any number of sacramentals.

    What Father is doing in my church is the right thing. He, another Priest, and even some of you have shown me that the OF, though open to a number of abuses, can be very beautiful and reverent. Seeing as how we are a top-down church, I believe it is up to the Bishops of the Diocese to help these Priests, and as you say, “improve it across-the-board”. We can comment on the blog until we are blue in the face, but we probably do come across as sanctimonious at times (Self-Absorbed Promethean Neopelagians????).

  59. majuscule says:


    And this from San Francisco:

    The Traditional Latin Mass Society of San Francisco is working on having the first Pontifical Mass in San Francisco in a very long time. We have two tentative dates that the Archdiocese have given us. They will be confirming soon so we can prepare.

    The availability of the EF is growing in the Archdiocese of San Francisco. Believe me it is needed! And there are a good many who would support it if they knew about it. (Doing the best I can in that respect!)

  60. RafqasRoad says:

    MBurn16 who commented at #51,

    You are the first here to raise the option of a ‘third way’ force for much good within Western Catholic Christianity – that of the Ordinariate. The AO Mass in my thinking is just waiting to be implemented; I cannot help but believe that it offers a more than viable – an excellent in fact – alternative to bring about positive liturgical reform that aims to do away with any train-wreck residue of the 1970’s etc. that is completely licit, completely valid, liturgically beautiful and wholely God-focused but without any barriers etc. language etc. (real or perceived) that may hinder roll-out of the EF in many places. I know for one thing that I’d have a much easier time of it interesting my fellow (mostly Anglosphere) parishioners and my two incredibly overworked rural parish priests to take a look at the AO than the EF. Additionally, with good education of the parish to the ‘whys and wherefores’ about the various elements of the mass – that cover everything from reasons concerning priest’s posture, gesture and orientation while celebrating Mass, meanings behind everything from use of incense a certain way at certain times, vestments etc., accustoming the congregational ear to the liturgical language (easily enough done with Cranmerian English – a good educator can easily melt away any inbuilt ‘I can’t do this, its too hard’ attitudes with exposure and tuning the ear to what is being said in similar manner to one growing accustomed to understanding a friend or associate with a very pronounced accent).

    Furthermore, exposing congregations to Eastern Rite masses if the pastor is blessed to be bi-liturgically trained, broadens the congregants’ minds to the full richness of Catholic Christianity, of which the NO as usually celebrated in the US, UK or Australia, is but a tiny, often dreadfully executed, element).

    Just a few thoughts as one raised an Anglicanism for the first 13 years of my life and entering Catholic Christianity as an adult in 2011 through the Maronite rite (after 21 years as a fairly hard-line SDA who subsequently detoxed for five more years within Evangelical Anglicanism of the Sydang variety) , now exposed to fair NO practice but with hang-over sillinesses of the 60’s and 70’s, I am certain of the benefits of the AO. (though I drop little hints to the music director et al. re the goodness of Rutter, Parry, Britton, Vaughan Williams, Tavennor (both of them), Howells, Sullivan etc and we got a good old-time hymn standard as our opening hymn yesterday morning (even though with guitar accompaniment). Little steps and planting little seeds of possibility… and if the guitar accompanied ‘choir’ think that Parry and friends are a bit out of their league, there’s such a wide selection of wonderful, God-centred sacred music suitable for Mass in the abovementioned list, less ‘challenging’ options can be found that are not unfitting for the Sacrifice of Holy Mass.

    Its just my gut feeling, but in truly hostile territory, don’t discount the AO!!!!!!!! – even in good territory, don’t discount the AO!!!!!!!

  61. dholwell says:

    The Brigittine fudge link is down. Did Fr. Z’s readers overwhelm it?

  62. Bea says:

    How beautiful.
    Had a good long cry over what we are missing.
    Oh that everyone had a bishop such as this.

  63. Chon says:

    Bea, I used to feel the same way, and prayed and prayed for a “bishop such as this” (along with many other people), and after many years, our prayers were answered by God sending us Abp. Sample–much to our stunned amazement. Don’t give up. Pray and hope and fast. As Archbishop Sample recently told us, “Never underestimate the power of your prayers.”

  64. Chon says:

    StnyPtGuy said: “If I heard correctly, Abp. Sample was at the monastery for a chant conference of some kind. It sounds as if this was for singers and parish liturgists (and such) in his Archdiocese. In other words, it appears the object of the exercise was to bring the fruits of Summorum Pontificum to parishes in the Portland Archdiocese. ”

    I don’t think so. We are SO not there yet. The Archbishop is having to move very slowly. This conference was for anyone who wanted to come.
    (Here’s the link for the ad.
    I recognize one of the women in the photos; she is definitely not a singer or a liturgist.

    This appears to be just a very tentative beginning of things. The Archbishop was there only for the Saturday night Mass. I think when the Abp. is ready to really roll on this, he’ll bring in experts to teach the local talent. That seems to be his MO.

  65. mburn16 says:

    “We should band together and form and join associations that work toward better sacred art, music, architecture, vestments, retention of classical languages and education thereof.”

    Well the first issue I think you’re going to run into is the incredibly high number of Catholics who are so poorly catechized that you’re already over their head just by mentioning the different forms of the liturgy, much less the contributing role any of the other things you talk about play into it. Part of that, at least in this country, no doubt, is the fact that we live in a Protestant Christian society (and increasingly, a low-Protestant Christian society) rather than a Catholic one. I must be careful about being overly harsh, but I would not find it surprising if the attitude of many Catholics towards mass resembled some kind of cross between coffee house and theater.

    Even if we had a perfect consensus on which way the Priest could face, which language mass would be said in, what architectural styles were acceptable, etc……I’m not sure that can be a starting point.

  66. Chon says:

    I should have said, “…arrange for experts to teach the local talent.” I did not mean we have no experts here–though I don’t know if our local experts are interested in teaching diocesan workshops. ? It will be interesting to see what develops. This conference was sponsored by the Brigittine monks, not the archdiocese.

  67. Per Signum Crucis says:

    Interesting how the tenor of this thread has moved: from the “pridefulness” of whether every liturgical utterance and action must be just so; to the possibility of alternative rites (such as the AO) that would embody both the authenticity of traditional liturgy and a greater consistency.

    It would be interesting to know (since I presume that neither magnet parishes nor the practice of parish-shopping occurred much before 1962) what a PR or advertising professional would say to how the Catholic ‘product’ could or should be best marketed: as a centralised exercise or through the initiative and inclination of Ordinaries or individual priests. From my limited understanding of the marketing business, things like a fundamental realignment is not always successful: even the Church of Coca-Cola didn’t bridge that gap very successfully when it tried.

  68. Netmilsmom says:

    The EF is beautiful, but I have a convert husband who refuses to go again. It makes me sad because my kids and I would go without a problem. We are relatively full of EF Holy Masses. We have three commuter parishes that have EF masses every Sunday. It’s fantastic for those who can go. We also have two SSPX parishes within driving distance and an Independent Catholic community. Not in communion, but it show the hunger in this area.
    My parish had a coup and although it has an EF, and a pretty solid OF, the rest of the devotions have gone modern. It’s disheartening. My fear is that the EF will be the bone that the “Spirit of Pope Francis” people throw at us as they decimate our parishes. In the long run, as people see the holiness of the EF, they modernists will lose this fight, but in the meantime, we will have a growing number of hoedown “masses”.
    A solid parish in our area needs parishioners and a Croatian Priest to stay open. Any prayers would be appreciated.

  69. jflare says:

    ” With all due respect, Father, if “Save the liturgy, save the world” is true, then what about all the groups who “saved the liturgy” and ended up outside the Church, the SSPX being a prime example?”

    I will firmly dispute this claim regarding SSPX having “saved” the liturgy.
    We all understand that SSPX has been likely the best known Order to insist on the traditional rite for some time. Trouble is, FSSP, ICK, and another Order have also practiced this rite for some time as well, and they’re all in communion with the Pope, so far as I know. Let’s remember too that, even though bishops’ conferences had insisted on the Novus Ordo in the 70’s, John Paul II had authorized every bishop in the world–or so I understand–to allow their priests to offer the traditional rite within their own diocese. Benedict certainly made that situation MUCH easier by allowing every priest to offer the Extraordinary Form if he wished, but the traditional form has been “street legal” by local ordinary approval for a long time.

    I would like to comment too that, if some have argued that bishop Lefebvre saved the liturgy, I’m inclined to argue the opposite. If John Paul II had been able to lean on the bishop as a determined, and CREDIBLE voice in the Church to remind the faithful of the virtues of the traditional Mass, I keep thinking that we might not have ever needed to have two forms of the rite in the first place; bishop Lefebvre might have been able to provoke worthwhile reforms to the reform well before 2007. By his insistence on doing things “his way”, it seems to me that reform became all but impossible, because too many could easily dismiss such notions as the rants of an old-fashioned crank.


    On a different note, I happened to see something at about 21 minutes in the video: Five of the clergy there removed their birettas (correct term?) within one minute of each other, two of them almost in tandem, like a theatrical gesture. Anyone know what they meant by that?

  70. FXR2 says:

    Thank God for Bishop Sample! Pray for more like him!

    Jflare the clergy were removing their Birettas at the mention of the Holy Name of Jesus, some belatedly.That is referred to as ‘birettaquette’, and not a theatrical gesture.


  71. BLB Oregon says:

    The problem the Archdiocese in Portland in general and OCP in particular has is that the people have grown to like music at Mass that has a popular sound and a self-referential theme, as is heard in “Gather Us In.” The OCP is a business, and they have to sell what they’re going to publish at a profit. Perhaps more conferences educating on chant and more God-centered musical choices will do the needed work to reform liturgical music. It cannot be done simply by changing the songs that OCP puts in their books, that much is certain.

  72. jflare,

    I don’t think “Save the liturgy, save the world” refers originally or primarily to the EF form of the liturgy. It surely is not a reference to any groups having (allegedly) preserved the TLM during the long years when it was banned by most bishops.

    Certainly, I know of few or none attending the EF who see anything about it that needs saving or reformed. Fr. Z’s aphorism refers instead to saving the liturgy for the whole church, that is, predominately to saving the OF from the disrepair that afflicts its celebration in so many places. In this regard, the primary role of the EF may arguably be as a “touchstone or measure for the reform of the reform, the OF” (as Ab. Sample says).

  73. Sword40 says:

    Portland has the foundations of developing a great EF liturgical base. Look at the Dominicans at Holy Rosary. They have the ancient Dominican Rite once a month and a Latin OF every Sunday. Their altar boys have served both the EF and DR for several years. I also hear that there is a diocesan priest that has been assigned to help train more altar boys at Holy Rosary.
    I have been to St. Birgitta’s many times and think that Fr. Tran is a wonderful priest who says the EF Mass every Sunday and on Holy Days. True it is not located in the best part of town but it is there and available.
    What is needed is a permanent home for a real EF parish. I would encourage everyone to write to His Excellency asking him to invite in the FSSP or Institute of Christ the King.

    And order some fudge to go with your Mystic Monk coffee.

  74. kat says:

    This was very enjoyable to watch. Thank you Father, for posting it. May this good bishop do much for the souls in his diocese.

    I want to comment on the oft-repeated remarks by some that when they read blogs, they constantly read bitterness, anger, etc. from the “traditionalists.” Someone above already pointed out that often that has come from years of being attacked as less-than-Catholic for simply wanting to live the liturgy and the Faith as their fathers before them, etc. Sadly it has brought about bitterness from some.

    But something else I think is fair to keep in mind. A lot of people who have time to spend reading and posting on blog sites may not be the majority of those “traditionalists”: families, who are simply trying to raise their children with the EF, with schools that teach the Catechism as it should be, with the doctrines and dogmas taught; where sin is preached against and virtue is encouraged. Those people are full of love, and charity, and trying hard to lead holy lives. They are not sitting on blogs, waiting for the latest post about the pope so they can blast him (nor do they even desire to blast him.) They are getting up, taking their children to school, or homeschooling them; going about their day the best they can; attending the EF as frequently as they can, etc.

    I guess I’m just trying to say that perhaps the select sample of “angry trads” that post their less-than-charitable remarks on sites all over the web, are not really representative of so many thousands of “trad” families who just want to live their Faith, and who actually do practice charity, kindness, and love to their fellow man, regardless of what Mass those “neighbors” attend, or even if they attend no Mass at all.

    And yes, many of them do face some type of persecution, even from relatives. The bishop’s comments at the end, about charity, needs to be practiced by all.

  75. Chon says:

    Sword40, just to let you know, Holy Rosary has had the EF and DR much more frequently lately.

  76. Mike Morrow says:

    Archbishop Sample’s homily is extremely effective…a very worthy companion to Fr. Calvin Goodwin’s homily of 14 September 2007 celebrating Benedict XVI’s Summorum Pontificum. Archbishop Sample is one of the very few in the canonical Roman Catholic hierarchy who deserve high regard. I wish some like him had been around when, worldwide, the gang of populist self-serving position-seeking politicians that made up the episcopate allowed the universal corruption of Bug-nini to wreak Roman Catholic tradition almost overnight…without a whisper of resistance or dissent, and certainly without any “pastoral care and consideration” for we who were its earliest victims.

    Archbishop Sample is a skilled speaker and homilist. Beyond that, his biography reveals that he holds the Master of Science Degree in Metallurgical Engineering! I’m impressed.

  77. juventutemDC says:

    THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, your Grace! We will keep you in our prayers. We look forward to welcoming you to Washington, DC!

  78. Sword40 says:

    I’m really glad that Holy Rosary is increasing the traditional forms but we still need a parish that is dedicated to the EF mass, whether it be Roman, Dominican or whatever, which is why I suggest that the more people that request this in a letter to his Excellency the sooner it will happen. We are still waiting across the Columbia. Our FSSP in Seattle/Tacoma is thriving but we are still renting churches and sharing space. Too many times we bump against the OF Mass with conflicts in time/space requirements.

    Portland should nor forget that Vancouver is just across the river with a large population. True in another diocese but that has never stopped trads from attending an EF Mass.

    I’m writing my letter to the Archbishop this evening.

  79. Polycarpio says:

    There was a great story on CNS about Archbishop Sample saying Mass for the inmates of a maximum security prison, showing that you can have the best of both worlds. Here is the link.

  80. Chon says:

    Sword40, yes, it would be great to have such a parish. I just wanted to update the record for readers of this blog so they know that things are moving at Holy Rosary way beyond what you mentioned.

    Right now, we are working to get the Sunday 11:00 at Holy Rosary to always be the Dominican Rite (the EF would also be acceptable, but many of us prefer the Dominican Rite, considering it more elegant). I have reason to believe this will happen soon. Not overnight, but soon. The pastor is all for it. However, there are some blocks he is working on in a kind and patient manner. He requests prayers as he works for this project to go thru… Dominican Rite every Sunday at 11:00. (The archbishop is NOT the block. Neither is the Province).

    And yes, people do take that annoyingly traffic-jammed bridge across the Columbia…both ways. (I wish you guys would let the light rail go across the river!) I love to watch what Fr. Harris is doing at St. James in Vancouver–patiently teaching and bringing people along, and printing Archbishop Sample’s music teaching in the bulletin! A friend of mine sings in their new schola. I love the church building, too.

  81. Liz says:

    Polycarpio, thank you for the link to the story about the inmates. That made my day!

  82. Per Signum Crucis says:

    Just to add that I have now watched the video: as one who is not comfortable with undertaking non-scripted public speaking, I draw great inspiration from homilists like Abp.Sample in how to speak directly, clearly and with authority – as indeed a bishop should do.

    Obviously, the detail of his homily and its length favour the context in which the Mass was being held and its attendees. I am curious how he would speak if, for example, he or the diocesan Ordinary were to speak about the importance of the EF at the Church of the Good Shepherd in Wisconsin… (I think that’s the place; no doubt Fr.Z or other regular readers will correct me).

    I’m also curious about how even a fair wind for the EF would play out in the longer term. Abp.Sample used the word “exemplar” in the liturgical sense but what exactly might that mean in practice: celebrating the EF for particular occasions, such as always at major feasts, may be one way to get it in all parishes; another is to establish an exemplar parish which will eventually propagate other parishes although with this option, there may be a risk that if the exemplar parish becomes a magnet parish to the detriment (in attendances and financial support) of congregations of non-EF parishes, it would leave the Ordinary with a bit of a headache.

  83. Chon says:

    Per Signum Crucis:
    I was also wondering about the effects of an “exemplar parish” when I visited the FSSP parish in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho two summers ago. I decided to do a little research, and also visited Mass at the big NO parish there. Afterwards I spoke to some parishioners at the NO parish. I said, “I’m visiting here. How many Catholic churches are there in town?” They named a couple of parishes. They did not mention the FSSP parish. I said, “There’s a sign on 11th Street, ‘St. Joan of Arc Roman Catholic Chapel.’ What’s that about?” At that point several in the group looked confused. One woman spoke up and said, “Oh, that’s a “Catholic church too.” Then she had to explain to everyone else what that parish was about. My preliminary conclusion? Making an EF ghetto in a separate building is not necessarily the best, or the only way to influence the OF. We also need patient and kind people who will stay in an NO parish and work with the priest to bring the people along. In my parish I see formerly diehard NO people slowly coming to appreciate the Dominican Rite. They would never have gone to visit an EF parish, but since that Mass is at their own parish, they get curious and visit.

    I was thinking about moving to Coeur d’Alene to take advantage of the FSSP parish there. I decided not to. One reason was my experience at coffee hour. I tried joining several different tables, but nobody would talk to me. I ended up sitting with friendly double-dippers from the local SSPX. They said all kinds of crazy things about the Pope. I thought they were FSSP people until the end of our conversation. Visitors from the local NO parish would not have been amused by this scenario, and would probably not have known how to figure out who the SSPXers were.

    To be fair, I then went outside and talked to people, who were more friendly than those indoors. But if I hadn’t been doing research, I would not have bothered trying to talk to anyone else. I would have just rolled my eyes and gone back to my big beautiful NO parish.

  84. New Sister says:

    @Sword40, @ Chon – have you seen the newly renovated proto-cathedral in Vancouver? Saint James – it is ideal for the TLM, but is in Seattle territory I think.

  85. q7swallows says:

    Utterly transfixing sermon. I appreciated most of all Archbp. Sample’s perspective on the EF being the template or model for the reform of the reform. He absolutely, positively, 100% nailed it! With humor, energy, and confidence to boot! How very blessed is the Diocese of Portland!

  86. Bob Glassmeyer says:

    This is one of the most joyful, upbeat videos I’ve ever seen! Archbishop Sample lives out, joyfully, his orthodoxy and fidelity to Holy Church, combined with his charity and gentleness most superbly!

    I can’t imagine anyone not getting that. It seems to me that even the staunchest, dyed-in-the-wool anti-EF person could see that he is promoting the EF for all the right reasons.

    The fact that he is doing this, among other reasons, FOR his people, speaks volumes about Archbishop Sample. When we were in seminary together, what captivated me most about Archbishop Sample was his generous heart, and how gracious he was to me and to everyone there all the time. May our good God protect and defend him!

  87. benedetta says:

    This is very beautiful to see, and what an outstanding homily. I often think about what Pope Benedict said, recounted here by Bishop Sample, that which was always considered sacred beautiful by the Church” has never ceased to be sacred and beautiful.

  88. benedetta says:

    Bishop Sample’s words that “we may have the most beautiful liturgy in the world, but if we have not love we have nothing” are important for us to hear and follow, no matter if we assist one type of Mass or the other predominantly, as well as for those who are priests who may celebrate only one or the other.

    Liturgies which, in one way or another, propose a rupture with Holy Mother Church in her doctrine and traditions, or run counter to the Gospel, no matter if in the ordinary form or of what type, may be considered beautiful by those who designed them especially with certain interests in mind, but represent a betrayal and a spiritual abuse towards the faithful who deserve that Christ be permitted to speak through the worthy celebration of the sacraments to the fullest. That they may have life, abundantly.

  89. benedetta says:

    For example the sacredness of holy matrimony between one man and one woman is no less extremely beautiful because others teach wrongly. The life-giving force of God obvious and present at the moment of a child’s conception is no less stunningly beautiful and encompassing all the dignity God wishes to lavish on His people, merely because some choose to pretend that God does not intend to give life, or teach others to destroy it without a second thought. The very same Christ that died and resurrected is present in the Eucharistic Lord, there for us when we pray to Him at Adoration, no less today because some have decided this activity is a waste of time.

    On the entire topic of the fact that what the Church has always held as beautiful remains so very much today, with Her saints, the great book “The Heresy of Formlessness” is an excellent resource.

  90. Chon says:

    New Sister, I indeed know about St. James…see my comment above (March 10 at 6:56 p.m. ).
    It is, indeed, beautiful, and is, indeed, in Seattle territory. It is also a huge pain to get to from where I live. I’m sticking with my parish. Good things are happening there. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if Fr. Harris gets people to the point where he could do a TLM at St. James.

    For Portland, I think access to St. Patrick’s (where Cantores in Ecclesia used to sing before the big uproar) should be returned to the EF crowd. A few years ago some South American priests were imported and given that parish to do student ministry. That seems silly, because St. Michael’s is right next to Portland State University. Student ministry should function out of St. Michael’s.

  91. Giuseppe says:

    Bad joke of the day: A Higgs boson walks into a church. The priest says, “We don’t allow Higgs bosons here.” The Higgs boson replies, “Well, without me, how can you have mass?”

  92. New Sister says:

    @ Chon, I know Saint Patrick’s; it would be an ideal EF parish, given it has altar rails and is a nice size… also it’s not in a nice part of town, which I’ve noticed is typically what EF orders such as FSSP are used to getting. :-) The old parishioners @St Pat’s don’t strike me as the types to be friendly to the TLM, so that would be a challenge.
    The priests at St Patrick’s are from Argentina (St John Society) and orthodox, but they do not learn the TLM in seminary (Mt Angel). The current pastor asked about learning the TLM a few years ago. He was given one of the full FSSP “learn the Traditional Mass” kits, with DVDs, cards, books, etc.; maybe ask him if he’s dabbled in it yet? I would ask him but only get home to the PNW ~ twice/year. God bless!!

  93. benedetta says:

    @Brooklyn, Were you trying to say that if you were Bishop Sample for instance you would consider those who loved the Latin Mass and/or traditionalists to be SSPX and would be wary of them and put them outside of the Church? Or was that not what you intended to convey here.

  94. Chon says:

    New Sister,

    The people at St. Patrick’s used to host Cantores, so maybe they would be ok with a Tridentine Mass each weekend? And also an NO to make everyone happy and to cross-pollinate? About the orthodoxy of the Society of St. John, better than other places near my home. And they seem pretty personable. However, I’ve heard two of their priests, at different Masses, ad lib after communion, leading the congregation in a litany or whatever when there should be silence for prayer, or at most, a communion hymn. (They are also into Medjugorje, which I anticipate will be pronounced bogus–to use a technical term :-) –but let’s not open that can of worms). So, I’m not all that excited about that option. Let them have St. Michael’s for their campus ministry, and let ICK or FSSP have St. Patrick’s.

  95. Per Signum Crucis says:


    Thanks for the insight. I’m also starting to think that there are deeper factors involved in why people attend the parish they do (apart from when they have no realistic choice) because, on its own, the “attraction” of one Mass form over another is not always the primary motivation. Sure, the dedicated will make a conscious choice and seek out the EF where they can whether at an exemplar parish or simply wherever and whenever it is made available be it on a regular, semi-regular or one-off basis, but that is not going to re-establish the EF on a wider or quicker scale.

    Even Abp.Sample acknowledges that his priests may only rarely get the opportunity to celebrate the EF; his main point is really that, as a licit rite, seminarians and priests should know it as a matter of course. That means that, when a group of parishioners approach their PP to request an EF Mass, the PP is already up to speed with the adjustments required and can then consider how to introduce the EF into his parish routine. Without that prior knowledge, training or inclination, I suspect the sheer immensity of starting to learn EF from scratch plus all the associated elements (chant etc) can seem a daunting and time-intensive exercise for PPs who still have every other aspect of a parish to run.

    By the way, my previous message should have referenced Good Shepherd in Milwaukee… Without getting drawn into controversy since Fr.Z has mandated ‘no comment’ on that particular thread, my point about why people choose the parish they do might produce some very interesting results there!

  96. benedetta says:

    Of course, excommunicated wymyn priests and those who support them are very into liturgy. No one physically does symbolic liturgy supporting a dissenting agenda as well as they do. Their websites are awash in traditional liturgical finery to demonstrate their liturgical ethos. All excommunicated wymyn priests are liberals. Their liturgies lack caritas, and are all for show, designed to instrumentalize the liturgy to agitate for their personal, prideful and harmful agendas. I am concerned about the increasing militancy of some liberals who would similarly camp out in parishes and do big liturgies designed to break away from Holy Mother Church. Bishops I believe would be understandably quite wary of these groups. I guess the recent Maryknoller excommunication is a case in point.

  97. benedetta says:

    I wonder where @Brooklyn went off to. I guess he is not interested in dialoguing on whatever point he was attempting to make here. At any rate, I often wonder about the notion of a celebrity sister, giving a talk organized by a pastor, in the sanctuary of a Catholic church in an urban locale, expressly for for Catholic women of the parish, wherein she states that “of course” she is in favor of prochoice, smiling, and condescendingly encouraging all Catholic women too to rally in favor of this euphemistically styled legalism. When that occurs is it “all for show”. Or does she really mean it. How then would the fantastical liturgical celebrations and ceremonies conducted therein connect with such strange notions.

  98. benedetta says:

    The reality is that in many places still the plain and simple voice of the Gospel and the beliefs that the Church has always taught and held, are just not permitted to speak or live or act, at all. It’s not as if there is any lack of parishes, priests, universities, orders, most quite wealthy and powerful, who embrace, celebrate and teach and organize for, wholeheartedly, dissent, which in many cases denies the real spiritual and other forms of harm to the faithful it causes. It seems some are so desperate to not permit the simple voice of the Church to speak, even while they hold positions of great power, that they are willing to lie and calumnize to further stamp out the possibility of, say, the youthful voice of prolife speaking with its unique and natural joy. Now where is the charity in that. It’s the same old means to an end, however, it is becoming less and less likely that it will ultimately succeed.

  99. benedetta says:

    So over all the propaganda that there is an “increased militancy” or whatever the latest hipster accusation designed to silence the voice of truth, can with a quick survey of, say, Latin Mass locations in various dioceses across the U.S., together with numbers and geographical locations of Catholics, as well as a number of other factors, easily establishes that the calumny of militant traditionalists or Latin Mass people is once again part of an overall dirty scheme to silence and to maim and to prevent from the liberty and free exercised guaranteed. One can easily see that “websites awash” aside, the generous people in Latin Mass congregations are far from empowered across this land in any way. How many orthodox Catholic colleges are there as compared to dissenting ones which serve up so much crap and lies for the high cost of tuition all with people who have seemingly taken vows in the Church? It is far past time for a reality check. How many prolife, faithful Catholics work for, let’s say, the NY Times aka Hell’s Bible? Can’t think of any? How about the various dissenting so-called Catholic publications aka shill for Obama type outfits? Lay Catholics, from, Opus Dei, for instance? None? Shocking. One would think with their militancy we are at least talking an equal, level playing field, within the Church or without? Crickets…

  100. I am cloudowl says:

    I am cloudowl says:
    9 March 2014 at 5:35 pm

    O that we had hard-identity, courageous leaders of this calibre in England!
    My prayers were answered!

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