Well-organized and highly motivated Team Francis has rallied the MSM and circled their obfuscating wagons around their base camp position: It’s not about homosexuality, it’s clericalism. THAT’s the problem! Clericalism… clericalism… clericalism.
Their other tactic is to distract with the good, but altogether incomplete, mantra about protection of children and minors. Minors… okay. But the vast majority of “minors” were male and older minors, post-puberty.
On the other hand, we read at CWR the horrific story from Illinois about a priest in the Diocese of Springfield whom Bp. Paprocki has moved to laicize.
An Illinois priest accused of patronizing a male prostitute in the 1990s and misappropriating $40,000 from a parish in 2005 has now been removed from ministry for “immoral activity” that could involve child pornography, and allegedly misspending up to $29,000 at two parishes he oversaw in the Diocese of Springfield.
The Rev. [Nope], 55, was removed from ministry and will apply for laicization, Springfield Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki wrote in a Sept. 5 email to diocesan priests. [None] has agreed to make restitution for the misappropriated funds, Paprocki said. [Nope] was initially placed on medical leave Oct. 30, 2017 from his role as pastor of Mother of Dolors Catholic Church in Vandalia and St. Joseph Catholic Church in Ramsey, Ill.
During the medical leave, the diocese discovered financial irregularities at the parishes, and “immoral activity inconsistent with the life of a priest,” Paprocki wrote. He did not offer details. “We have found nothing to indicate that there was inappropriate activity with minors,” Paprocki wrote. Diocesan spokeswoman Marlene Mulford would not elaborate on the “immoral activity,” but she said the diocese “is sure this does not involve minors.” [Doesn’t involve minors… therefore?]
However, Fayette County State’s Attorney Joshua Morrison on Saturday said he understood the police investigation involved “potential child pornography and the priest.” Morrison said he was unaware of a financial aspect to the case. He asked those with knowledge of the funds misappropriation to contact his office for investigation.
An informant who contacted the activist group Roman Catholic Faithful Inc. said the situation involves much more than appears on the surface. A search conducted by the diocese at the rectory in Vandalia uncovered “at least one trunk of homosexual pornography” as well as drug paraphernalia, the informant said. A compact disc of homosexual pornography was found hidden in [Nope]’s desk, the source said. Father [Nope] has been in a decade-long homosexual relationship with an ex-convict, the informant alleged. A video being sought by diocesan investigators is believed to show a party at which “several” priests were dressed in drag, the informant said. The party was allegedly attended by [Nope] and at least five other priests.
[…]
Blech. The whole thing is disgusting and demonic.
I waffle between naming the bastards and damnation memoriae.
Remember: Demons attach themselves to people who commit certain sins and to the places where they were committed. What we are dealing with is not just human sickness, but also powerful demonic influence.
Invoking Our Lady, Queen of Priests and St. Joseph, Terror of Demons, let’s augment our large caliber prayers with the mighty force multiplier of fasting. The Lord says that some demons are to be dealt with by fasting.
I might ask:
Who of you reading this is exempt from doing something about The Present Crisis?
Meanwhile…..
“Clericalism… clericalism… clericalism… you are getting sleeeeeepy…. clericalism… clericalism….”
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Please settle a conundrum for us Catholics, how in the name of heaven do we defend this Pope ? How can we say we “love ” him? The man is steering the bark of Peter onto the rocks, do we just pray pay and obey, or is it time for someone else to grasp the tiller, To have the hippy dippy 70’s band keep playing as the ship goes down does not seen to be prudent action at this time. I feel lost and confused, not about my faith but MY church. This is starting to look like a slow motion train wreck, with leftist clergy dragging their heels in deep to save their mortal skin, damning their souls. Honest to Pete, there’s times it feels like a good slap to the chops is required. Clericalism, BS, deflection is what it is
Help
Clericalism is not the cause of the present crisis. How do the people suggesting that the root cause is clericalism attempt to relate the behaviour of Archbishop McCarrick to clericalism? However, clericalism features largely in the failure of many senior clerics to deal adequately with the present crisis. Firstly there is the unwillingness of some senior clerics to answer the questions put to them by members of the laity. Is not their failure to answer these questions exactly what clericalism involves? Secondly there is the attempt by some senior clerics to brush aside the real concerns that the laity have about sexual abuse and corruption in the Church by ‘talking about the environment’ and waffling on about immigration. Is this not also a form of clericalism? So those muttering so much about clericalism need to have a good look in the mirror and consider if their actions are not, in fact, the worst forms of clericalism. Moreover, these voices about ‘clericalism’ are the one who are resisting most strongly the input of the laity into the investigations which are so necessary. So much for their desire to involve the laity.
I read the Pope’s statement recently. Is it just me, or were there veiled cheap shots at traditionalists?
The thing is, there’s a somewhat well known healing/retreats ministry, “Our Sorrowful Mother’s Ministry” founded I think by lay women from that parish and I assume located near it. It’s a ministry that draws some vulnerable women and men in need of spiritual and personal healing. It is an obviously orthodox group with some well known and orthodox endorsers. They host priests to make retreats there too. I am not at all saying I think OSMM (which I have never visited and have no direct connection to, and which is well established and presumably not able to be corrupted by a recently assigned local pastor) has anyything wrong with it, on the contrary I read this and I feel so badly that they had such a troubled priest assigned at the parish there and hope and pray this will not affect them or their guests.
Fr. Nope was accused of patronizing a prostitute in the 90’s, and of misappropriating $40,000 from a parish in 2005, and is just NOW being removed from ministry in 2018, 13 yrs later! Seriously, why wasn’t he laicized long ago?
The ones shouting “clericalism” are often the least willing to listen to complaints from the laity on a range of issues – i.e. Cupich – or fling us to be silent & not scandalize – Pope Francis. These men even ignore voices within the hierarchy – such as the Four/Five Cardinals.
The current crisis is about gay clergy abusing their authority to molest young adult seminarians and the total indifference to – and outright facilitation of – this misconduct by those in authority. These gay men are doing it in large numbers – and in disproportionate numbers relative to their number within the clergy.
As to what we can do, prayer, fasting, reparation, and targetted donations restricted to the local parish needs are a start. A small number of Catholic web broadcasters & bloggers are covering the issue and reporting the stories of abuse survivors.
My diocese is head and shoulders above the rest in responding to abuse survivors. They host support meetings for survivors, and the bishop meets with them regularly.
Yet apart from these things what more can we do? We see see priests flaunting their vows, but no one listens. We see other priests attacking Church teaching without consequence – and who are raised to public prominence – such Fr. James Martin.
Apart from storming the rectories & chanceries, what more are we to do?
I fear you missed another critical point about Fr. [damnatio memoria].
He was the associate director and later director of the diocese’s Office for the Diaconate for the Diocese of Springfield.
Personnel is policy, and this man was responsible for the entire diaconate. What deacons did he select and promote? Who did he turn away? And how many deacons were afraid to speak out lest they be removed or assigned to isolated places?
“Clericalism” is a bad abbreviation for “ClericalBuggerySpreeIsm”.
It is good to see the way Bishop Paprocki is starting to deal with this particular incident. I hope there is more to come such as the rite of degradation and a thorough investigation as to the episode with “several” priests.
I live in the archdiocese run by the Cardinal who said Pope Francis has more important things to do like the environment and immigration. The same Cardinal who after criticism of his remarks had a statement read at parishes last weekend that he was taken out of context. (Or so I heard. I didn’t attend a diocesan church that weekend. But I know he’s denied saying what he said claiming it was out of context. )
Anyway, I did go to my archdiocesan parish this weekend. And as the pastor began his homily he informed us that the Cardinal had asked that priests speak on immigration this weekend. Imagine my surprise! See above as a reminder.
I wanted to get up and walk out but it was such a disconnected and rambling homily in which he tried to pull in the readings and Gospel white weaving in a lecture to us that there was absolutely no moment of tension in which I could dramatically get up. Everyone would have thought I was going to the bathroom!
However, said pastor and said Cardinal will be getting a letter. I’m writing it on the page I found in this weekend’s bulletin on immigration. I will mention zero dollars went into the basket from me. Oh, and I’ll mention that I resent being lectured on immigration when the hierarchy has hid and abetted sex abusers and encouraged dissent from Church teaching. I will say they lack credibility to lecture me on immigration when they can’t bring themselves to acknowledge that homosexuality is the major cause of the scandal. So why should anyone listen to them about immigration?
I’m sure I know more about immigration than they do since I apparently know more about homosexuality in this present crisis. I’ve had to inform myself on both since they are so untrustworthy.
It’s about homosexuality!
I wonder if next weekend we’ll get a lecture on the environment.
It’s about homosexuality!
It is Not Business As Usual.
Cardinal Cupich ordered all his priests to preach on a particular topic… and it was immigration? Does he dictate homily topics routinely? A friend who is in my book study was at the Chicago Holy Name Cathedral at 12:30 Mass this past Sunday and said there was someone who stood up and made a vocal protest, she didn’t seem clear what the protest was, but security had to assist to resolve the situation.
its about the Lavender Mafia, a fraternal sub-organization within an organization.
This coupled with the news of the backseat clerical liaison out of South Beach last week was over the top.
Anybody getting the memo yet?
Is literacy a requirement for advancement in the hierarchy? Is common sense?
My confidence in the episcopate will emerge from the tomb when I see ecclesiastical discipline restored with the unmitigated correction and dismissal of the likes of Fathers Martin, Holleran and other heterodox clergyman who confect the rationalizations legitimizing licentious behavior. Criminal and sinful behavior are characterized by secrecy and one can extend the benefit of the doubt regarding what is known by a bishop. Public declaration of views contrary to the perennial Magisterium are by their nature anything but secret.
These priests must face dismissal.
It seems to me that there is a deep connection between the worst forms of clericalism and homosexuality in the clergy. They protect each other’s secrets from the laity, ignore victims and care tenderly and forgivingly with each other’s faults. Pope Francis seems to be the most clericalist pope in living memory. He surrounds himself with deeply flawed men whom he protects and whose personal loyalty he can count on.
It seems that one way to find these evil/diabolical people is by looking for financial oddities; for example, those laity and priests that regularly roll out new “capital campaigns” when a campaign is unnecessary may be involved in widespread evildoing. Or, those bishops that regularly have bishop’s appeals and then blow the money wastefully may also be causes for concern. Many of these homosexualists seem to also be thieves, and they seem to hang around large money operations.
When there is a large money bag and sheepish parishioners trusting others with that money bag, it is easier for funds that are dishonestly removed to go unnoticed.
So one possible indirect solution to these homosexual and other abuse scandals may be more restrictive measures regarding parish or diocesan money. The problem here, though, is that there are probably also diabolical laity overseeing or regulating the parish and diocesan funds. They go where the money bag is, too.
The poor sheep, we need a leader and we don’t have one. God has not yet raised the one who can lead the flock to safety. There is confusion and disarray, the flock run one way and then another. This may continue, humbly I encourage all to keep their eyes on Christ, because the rock under our feet has shifted, and what we knew we no longer know. The Church has turned to sand.
He remains.
One of the worst and most challenging parts of this is just plain coming to terms with what the problem is. Unfortunately that leads to horrific conclusions about him, and the men that run the church. It gets easier from there. Once you wrap your head around why boys and young men are sodomized in such large numbers, and you accept they have no intention of stopping it, in fact, are annoyed you have the audacity to even ask, it gets easier to realize what has to be done.
They have money. They don’t need you or me, except for public relations. They can go quite a while without one dime from us in the offertory. This is the long game and we have to play it.
Our direct weapons aimed at these apostates are attendance, or not.
Money, or not.
Support, or not.
Make noise, or not.
Shout Vigano, or not.
Be persistent, never give in, or not.
Make comments in comboxes, or not. Remind them we are not going away and will not change our path until they do, or not. Educate our fellow Catholics, or not. This is what we have. If we use it, it is powerful, will get their attention, and we may see some change. It is most likely that if we do not use what we have, and things proceed as they are, forget it, they’ve won, and will continue winning.
This is not easy, I have my own varying success with it, and no one has any idea what “victory” would look like even if we got there. It seems more like keeping them off balance so God can finish them off. Whatever it is, we have our part and we need to do it without leadership, without guidance. What we can’t do is just continue as we were.
There are indications Catholics are responding, are changing the way they do things. Good!
I think Ciwilla is right. There is a deep connection between both clericialism and practicing homosexual clergy. The clericalism aspect is that these priests believe that they are above the law, that the law does not apply to them, and that they can do what they like with whoever they like without suffering the consequences. Those Chicago priests caught in Miami in a car together…just as all of this is going on, and yet they were behaving like they can flagrantly violate the rules of morality because they don’t apply and there is no accountability for them. As if they are judged by a different standard than the rest of us. That because they believe since they are priests they can make their own rules. I think that is the difference between the celibate priests with homosexual attraction and the practicing ones – the celibates don’t put themselves above the law and morality. So yes, there is a deep element of clericalism there, in that because they are priests, they peversely believe they are entitled to be treated differently and held to a different standard than lay people. It is exactly the opposite of how they should be thinking: that they should be striving to live a life that models morality and the law rather than the flaunters of both.
BEST 8 minute homily I’ve heard about the scandal/mess so far:
If anybody KNOWS & speaks from EXPERIENCE, Father Larry Richards KNOWS because he went through it—-he was abused by a Priest when he entered the seminary at 17. He says it WAY better than anybody else I’ve heard say what we need to do.
https://thereasonforourhope.org/2018/september-9-2018-23rd-sunday-in-ordinary-time-cycle-b/
This is getting to be a little bit much for me–what is going on is NOT that some spiritual pestilence has (only just recently) infiltrated into the RCC which is now thoroughly diseased and corrupt, but that this dreadful situation is only just now becoming obvious to the silent majority. Why any of this is a revelation only just now is a mystery to me.
As our good readers may recall, back in 2002-2003, the Dallas Charter etc. etc. ad nauseum was a deeply flawed document and protocol, pursuant to which any priest or religious “credibly” accused of sex acts with a minor was to be immediately yanked from ministry unless and until he/she was 100% exonerated, after which he/she should have been restored to active ministry. The lack of due process afforded to the accused was so gross that even Pope Benedict XVI (not known to micro-manage, at least to this commenter) protested about the manifest unjustice. This should have told us all something.
Then-Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz made a motion (at Dallas) that the bishop should set up a commission to investigate their own ranks, so that those bishops & cardinals involved in covering up these hideous crimes should “face the music” in some as-yet undetermined form. The motion failed for lack of a second. This should have told us all something.
Then came the Virtus program, where the finger was pointed not at the true source of the original pedophile scandal (offending clergy and/or religious) but at the laity. This should have told us all something.
Then came Cardinal Francis George’s John Jay report, whereby, in order to “refute” the known truth (that this was truly a scandal involving a LOT of pedophilia, defined as sexual abuse of prepubescent minors), he could disseminate a known lie, that it was “ephebophilia,” defined as sexual abuse of post-pubescent minors. To do this, he arbitrarily had the John Jay Institute work and re-work, its statistics and figures until the then-currently accepted age of puberty in boys (14) was downgraded to age 10! Thus, by using this artificial numerical age, instead of the accepted one, the original sexual abuse scandal morphed from pedophilia to ephebophilia. This should have told us all something.
I could go on and on.
Methinks that what is really going on here is the hand of God–He gave these bad bishops and cardinals 15, 16 years to clean up their act voluntarily. Eventually, the hand of God is forced, in a certain sense, to move into action and start doing the job for us.
This kind of situation was foretold in 1 Peter 4:17: “For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?”
This is Part 2 of 2:
And perhaps worst of all, many, many totally innocent clergy and religious have been falsely accused of these crimes, some for financial gain, some out of personal hatred, some because the accuser was mentally ill or suffering from Alzheimer’s or some other form of senile dementia, and on and on.
A fairly typical scenario is that the second the accusation has been made, if the accused is a diocesan priest, he is told to be out of the rectory by sundown or he will be arrested and taken out in handcuffs. The priest is then left to fend for himself, and not a few of them wind up homeless, working menial jobs, and ostracized.
The situation has become so bad that one concerned Catholic has actually founded a charity to help clergy/religious who have been rightfully or wrongfully accused, give them a place to live and have their medical and other needs taken care of, privately offer Mass and prayers if their faculties have been revoked, etc. that charity is based in Michigan, I believe.
I believe the short-term takeaway from this entire sordid situation is that faithful and devout Catholics should in no way allow their faith to be shaken. Our duties and responsibilities are the same, whether everything is sordid and degenerate, as this present scandal has revealed, or whether everything is sunshine and lollipops. That is, one should be extra careful to keep oneself in the state of sanctifying grace, by making use of frequent confession, Mass and Holy Communion, by having a strong and intense prayer life, etc. If anything we are under more obligation to pray and offer for the worst offenders of all. If they die unrepentant, I think we can safely assume that their skulls will indeed be used to pave the floor of the deepest part of hell.
I believe the current situation is still the “baby stuff,” and that much more will be forthcoming, both within the Church and then within the world at large.
Finally, it is kind of fascinating, but now also kind of horrifying, to see all of those old private Catholic prophecies coming true in our time. When I first started learning about them back in the early to mid 1990’s, it was interesting enough, but mostly academic. Now, it’s up close and personal. It could all turn out to be quite an out of control roller coaster ride, but if we as Catholics step up to the plate and fulfill our basic obligations (which, as above, remain ever the same no matter what), then it will go well for us in the end.
@The Egyptian ,
To love someone is to want what is best for them. It is not a feeling, but an act of the will.
With a straight face, Cupich claims ‘clericalism’ – a term with which I am not familiar and neither are the other bishops.
Last time I heard the term was in relation to secular priests in the Middle Ages.
Jorge can’t hide for long.
One could hope for Father [Nope] to have to undergo the Rite of Degradation. Of course that won’t happen. But one could also hope that any and all evidence of child porn (other than what was under the seal of confession) would be turned over to the police.
The flood gates are starting to open.
These perverts are beginning to lose their cover.
Have to disagree with Bishop Paprocki. If child porn was involved – then minors were victimized.
That’s why it gets the perv incarcerated.
In the FBI I dealt first-hand with child pornography (I found the evidence but couldn’t look at it; I have five kids). There was always an eerie feeling in those homes we raided. Well, recently as a PI I have dealt directly with a client whose daughter is in a satanic cult. I have twice experienced what can only be described as extreme poltergeist activity. The thing about this cult is that sex with young people is paramount in their rituals; of course I have been to the FBI and the AG’s office. So, these priests who engage in aberrant sex, whether with each other, or other men have demons attached to them. Cf: https://www.ajc.com/news/two-priests-arrested-florida-for-performing-sex-act/CKWM7t0DNjch4Y34XPU0EK/
To lend some perspective on just how serious the problem was and still is: There was a special Catholic residential treatment center for priests with problems like alcoholism, pedophilia, and pederasty at Jemez Springs, NM. The facility became notorious during the 1990’s for its revolving door, sending monsters in cassocks back out to molest more children and young men.
Don’t let anyone tell you it’s not about sex perversion.
Shonkin: The monsters wore *cassocks*?????????
Also, yeah, its about sodomy.
Clericalism is an issue in so far as sodomites used it to hide and prolong their sodomitic hallucinations.
Clericalism is a means, like lying, cheating, stealing.
Its about bad people getting away with what they wanted.
And what they wanted was sodomy. Everything else was a means to sodomy. Priesthood was a means to sodomy. The structure of the Church was a means to sodomy. “Altar serving” was a means to sodomy. “Vocation retreats” were a means to sodomy. “Seminaries” were a means to sodomy. Power structures were a means to sodomy. Clericalism is a convenient means to sodomy for these people.
Yeah, and it was “clericalism” that caused the drug fueled gay orgy in a Vatican apartment last year.
This CWR article and post, to say the least, reinforces the August 30 post “Pius V Bull against “Gay” clergy.” A quote from Pius V from that August 30 post:
“2. So that the contagion of such a grave offense may not advance with greater audacity by taking advantage of impunity, which is the greatest incitement to sin, and so as to more severely punish the clerics who are guilty of this nefarious crime and who are not frightened by the death of their souls…”
ChesterFrank: “Lavender Mafia…” Indeed. This article seems insightful about the Lavender Mafia:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/catholic-expert-details-39huge-homosexual-underground-in-the-church39
cwillia1 wrote: “He [Pope Francis] surrounds himself with deeply flawed men whom he protects and whose personal loyalty he can count on.”
Good point. The excellent Paul Kengor (author of “God and Ronald Reagan” and other helpful books) had an article at Crisis a few days ago. Titled “Sowers of the Current Chaos” Kengor focuses on a new book about Madre Pascalina (an assistant of Pius XII). A quote from the article:
“It wasn’t always the popes [John XXIII and Paul VI] themselves that Pascalina held responsible for certain troubles—it was often the men they surrounded themselves with and naively listened to and were often misled by.”
https://www.crisismagazine.com/2018/sowers-of-the-current-chaos
Good point, but my two cents regarding Francis is that he is more culpable than he is naive.
Kengor’s article has a link to his interesting 2017 article “Vatican II’s Unpublished Condemnations of Communism.”
A quote from Kengor’s 2017 article:
“It’s not that these documents were lost, but they’ve certainly been forgotten. Hoffman told me [Kengor] that the documents, in their Latin form, can be found in some large research libraries, squirreled away on old shelves. They are contained in heavy volumes that include all of the acts of the Council and its preparatory phases. In his translations, Hoffman lists the precise volume and page number of the acts that contain the document in question. “However,” adds Hoffman, “the documents have only been available to academics with a knowledge of Latin until now and the very existence of these condemnations has not been widely known—they are mentioned in certain histories of the preparatory phase of Vatican II, but they have never been translated into any vernacular language that we know of.”
…
“There were three documents—technically considered “preparatory schemas”—written up and initially approved by the “General Session” in February 1962 (more on this later). The first and lengthiest of the three was titled, “On the Care of Souls With Regard to Christians Infected With Communism.” The second document, also approved in February 1962, was titled, “On the Care of Souls and Communism.” The third document, approved in April 1962, was titled, “On the Apostolate of the Laity in Environments Imbued With Materialism, Particularly Marxism.” The second and third are shorter than the first document, with the third being the briefest.
“The documents are poignant philosophical statements on communism, but they are more striking for the practical steps they carefully outlined for the Church to take in countering the ideology. As Hoffman told me, “these documents represented a plan to launch a global offensive against communism.””
…
“The first of the three schemas opened by identifying “atheistic communism” as a “menace” threatening the “doctrine and activity of the Church,” with a specific purpose “to radically overturn the social order and to subvert the foundations of Christian civilization.” It stated that communism “offers a false kind of redemption,” and is pervaded, “in a pseudo-mystical way, with a certain false idea of justice, equality and fraternity for all in the administration of their needs and labors, for the purpose of inflaming the masses by enticing them with deceitful promises, by which they are aroused as if by a virulent contagion.” Communism served as “a false religion without God,” as it sought to abolish the very notion of an “eternal Divinity and the hope of another life.””
…
“In all, these were formidable statements. Powerful words. So, that being the case, why were these gems never published?
“According to Matthew Cullinan Hoffman, the documents were squashed by a group of conspiring progressive prelates from Germany, France, and Holland—better known as the infamous “Rhine Group.” According to Hoffman, these leftist churchmen worked in a “highly coordinated way to achieve their goals,” and were successful. This Council minority “out-maneuvered” the majority and “took control” of the commissions overseeing the wider Council’s documents.”
https://www.crisismagazine.com/2017/vatican-iis-unpublished-condemnations-communism
Today, homosexualists and “progressives” in the Church seem to have a symbiotic relationship. They seem to share the same goal of spreading a hybrid, even diabolical, Gospel/anti-Gospel. They seem to share a greater interest in socialist political agitation over the salvation of souls. They seem to share a militant vocabulary that attacks traditional Catholics as, among other things, Cancers or Racists. They seem to share the belief that, rather than there is no Hell, everyone goes to Heaven.
Clericalism is not the problem. Instead, the homosexualists and progressives, in their decadence and hatred of tradition, resemble those who “reason unsoundly” in Wisdom Chapter 2:
6“Come, therefore, let us enjoy the good things that exist,
and make use of the creation to the full as in youth.
7 Let us take our fill of costly wine and perfumes,
and let no flower of spring pass by us.
8 Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds before they wither.
9 Let none of us fail to share in our revelry,
everywhere let us leave signs of enjoyment,
because this is our portion, and this our lot.
10 Let us oppress the righteous poor man;
let us not spare the widow
nor regard the gray hairs of the aged.
11 But let our might be our law of right,
for what is weak proves itself to be useless.
12 Let us lie in wait for the righteous man,
because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our actions;
he reproaches us for sins against the law,
and accuses us of sins against our training.
13 He professes to have knowledge of God,
and calls himself a child of the Lord.
14 He became to us a reproof of our thoughts.”
Matthew 24:13 “He who perseveres to the End shall be Saved.”
@Shonkin: My family has been in NM since the 1930’s; I’ve driven past that Jemez Springs facility several times. It’s like a derelict children’s playground now. The gays have gotten smart here now: they choose boys 16 (the age of consent here) and over to fulfill their pleasures with (I’m too well informed about the gay priests here in NM; it’s a miracle I still have my faith). Because I know about the penal system well; if you’re a pedophile either one of two things happen to you: you are either put in solitary (level one, in penal terms), or if you are put in the general prison population, you will get shanked. I’m not kidding: you can never “reform” a pedophile. Even cutting them down there, if you know what I mean, doesn’t reform them. The only thing that can protect a child is to make sure they never have access to a child.
Thank Bishop Paprocki for moving ahead with laicization – the sooner the better. Bishop Vann when he was appointed to Fort Worth in 2005 did the same when he was presented with a number of abuse cases (that looked to have been shelved by his now deceased predecessor who was rumored to have a death wish for the priesthood). Under Vanns leadership, vocations in Fort Worth increased substantially, like Madison, Charleston, and a few other dioceses. Fort Worth under Olsen seems to be doing okay too. Hopefully Rochester and Albany will also be seeing an upswing.
Bishops with mites on straight = vocations.
The way I’ve heard the word clericalism used is in the sense of a tendency to want to clericalize the laity. Thus, if a parishioner wants to get more involved with the church the first thought is if it’s a guy he should be a deacon. Otherwise a Eucharistic minister or something like that. So its a wrong desire to make the laity clerical or pseudo-clerical.
I know it’s a sort of pet peeve of Opus Dei that the place for the laity to serve Christ is out in your work place or with your friends or family, the people God has put around you.
Amid the accusations and altercations and machinations and obfuscations and protestations and postulations and disputations and tribulations and revelations of salutations, the church for me – right or wrong – has become very much more local.
Here’s the full version of Virgin Spring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7g-B8FiX34 It won the Academy Award for best foreign film, back when men were actually men. I’ve been told I look a bit like Max Von Sydow. If someone raped and killed one of my daughters, I would not leave it to the judicial system to exact revenge; I would do it myself–with my AR-15, zeroed with a Military-only EOTECH scope.
If you watch that movie from 1:11:00 onwards, Max gets his revenge, then at the end vows to build a church after a spring fills where his daughter’s dead body was lying, and a spring filled in her place. A very Catholic movie, coming from an atheist.
I have to agree that the clericalism is found among the homosexual clerics. Someone sent me a link to this homily which is excellent~and supports that idea as well.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/spm-straph-parish-wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/20084333/208.mp3
When you use “MSM”, I presume you mean “main stream media”. But did you know MSM is also the standard medical abbreviation for “men who have sex with men”?
More signs of moral decay: Ad for the prescription drug Truvada now running on prime-time TV [“The Orville” sponsor]. Truvada is Rx’d before your first homosexual experience = pre-exposure prophylaxis. Unbelievable, but true.
I think the homosexuality in the Church and particularly among the clergy, especially the upper clergy, is a symptom. Mostly, a symptom of the fact that these people don’t believe a darn thing and have just found themselves a comfy niche that doesn’t require much education, intelligence, physical strength, or even good looks. These guys are so physically repellent that they’d be lucky to find a non-paid – ahem – “date” anywhere, with anybody of either sex. So it’s clericalism in the sense that the modern Church is a religious structure without a faith, and these are the bored bureaucrats that run it and feel that their position makes them completely safe from the consequences of any of their evil actions.
But the whole thing is result of the formal expulsion of the Faith from the Church after VII. Homosexuality is easy because they don’t care what they have sex with but other males are more available in their environment and hence easier. And as for children – these guys are so evil they think it’s funny what they can get away with in terms of abusing the weakest and most vulnerable.
But the thing that is most chilling of all is that Francis is practically the model: corrupt, ruthless, brazen in rejecting the truth, destroying its supporters, and promoting his corrupt and evil friends. And I still wonder why he would have so many pedophiles and perverts as friends and supporters, and have spent so much time protecting them in his prior positions as bishop and archbishop, and be promoting them as teachers in the Church (James Martin, Farrell, anyone?) unless he had a dog in this race.
@ Joy65
I shut it off when he said that, “there are three websites that people shouldn’t visit, ‘Lifesite,’ ‘1peter5,’ and ‘Church Militant,’ these people are not perfect but to slander them and say they’re, ‘full of hate,’ is a load of crap. I don’t have much patience for people who trash good Catholics, who are trying to do their best in this crazy world.
Plus Anger is an emotional reaction to a perceived injustice. Christ was no lovey dovey pussy willow when he was driving the money changers from the temple. I think abuse of innocence is an injustice. Anger is a just reaction to the present crisis. And the best thing that a journalist can do in this present crisis, with this anger, is to channel it to rouse people to action, in as far as they are able, to change the situation.
That said, I will give him this, Jesus is in charge. And I add penance has roused the merciful heart of God since the time of the Ninivites and Jesus said to ask, to knock, to persevere in prayer, and Mary came from heaven and gave us the rosary and told us to pray for peace, and by this peace I am certain that she means the heavenly peace that comes from doing the Will of God.
In our diocese, several months ago a semi-retired priest at probably the most liberal parish in the city was arrested for possession of child pornography. He had been living in a house owned by the diocese; when law enforcement went in they found it disgustingly filthy and containing drugs. The diocese kicked him out of the house and he’s now in jail awaiting trial. At his first court appearance, some older women parishioners accompanied him. In a newspaper report about his arrest, one older woman parishioner expressed her disbelief about it because he was so great, and then said, I kid not, “Who am I to judge?” Soon after his arrest someone came forward with a charge of sex abuse that allegedly happened 40 years ago. The diocese held an exorcism at the house and is now selling it.
Most of the “clericalism” I’ve seen recently is from those invoking it & claiming homosexuality isn’t the problem.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/09/08/retired-priest-says-his-complaints-were-dismissed-boston-archdiocese/TvHKhwpVj6yVrC6eUkfZlJ/story.html
@MrsMacD
I agree with you.
I remember reading The Wanderer way before 2002 and they were reporting on sexual perversion in the church. No one cared because it was The Wanderer you know. Only certain kind of Catholics read that.
Well they were writing about this and it didn’t fit the niceness requirement. The criticism I hear of those three current sites is basically the same.
The one thing that was encouraging to read in the above cited article at CWR is Roman Catholic Faithful is back!
http://rcf.org/
Today after listening to our pastor discuss bishop Gomez letter about the abuse, I happened to give a donation outside to the church choir. I was so frustrated because the pastor couched the abuse in regard to small children only with no mention of homosexuality. After walking away from the table, I walked back and told The ladies why I was so frustrated. The pastor like the bishop ignores the root cause. They agreed. I did not speak with the pastor because I have discussed other issues with him and I know his mentality. such a big problem and most of the leaders ignore the elephant in the room.
In his recent TV interview, Cdl. Cupich was genuinely perturbed at the abuse crisis as being a “rabbit hole”, but I don’t think the issues he identified as those from which is was distracting were really those about which he is concerned. In another part of the interview, he essentially said not to listen to those who are saying that the abuse crisis is all about homosexuality and sex. That’s when I think he unwittingly told us the very issues from which he was concerned that the “rabbit hole” of a crisis was distracting us.
Cdl. Cupich went on so assure us that the crisis is all about clericalism and power. One issue I can think of as being all about clericalism and power is that of the homosexual networks among the clergy who entrap, control, and blackmail seminarians and priests. Insofar as committed members of such networks are rewarded with positions of power – in the networks and/or in the hierarchy – there’s one problem which persists in large part due to clericalism and power…
I also agree with cwillia1 It seems to me the clericalism involved here is the notion that the clergy exists in and for itself and not primarily as shepherds of the lowly and smelly (as we are so frequently reminded) sheep The succor and tenderness (and justice) that should be displayed for the victim sheep instead goes to the errant clergy, who apparently must be forgiven and protected by those against whom they have not directly sinned in the name of “mercy.” Where is the mercy for the flock? Where is the direct and public confession to the individual victims by the individual perpetrators (those who are still with us) of the pain and damage caused by these grave sins? How terrible for Christ’s Church that lawyers now dictate how the gospel is lived out. Even the victims in a secular court have the right to confront the defendant on a personal basis in open court. In my mind this scandal is about both predatory homosexuality and a type of clericalism
The hands that consecrated the Body and Blood of Christ also…..this makes me sick.
I honestly don’t get what the hierarchy means when they say “clericalism” is the reason for the abuse crisis. I mean they obviously don’t believe in the Lavender Mafia. Is it that they think it is still the 1930’s and the cassock wearing traditionalists are still running things and they are responsible? Or maybe they are just trying to distract us with vague terminology to keep us from going down that infamous “rabbit hole” where the truth is to be found.
In this case, I think, for the Lavender Mafia, it IS about clericalism, or rather, the sodomites losing their priveleged status within the Church.
JonPatrick: that is precisely the attitude they portray. Despite having the positions of power, and despite controlling the narrative, somehow, Progressives are always the victims. Sodomute clerics trapping and abusing others with impunity and episcopal protection are somehow victims in all this. Typical progressives.
Boston was ground zero for the first wave of the clergy sex-abuse scandal. Cardinal O’Malley was brought in to clean up; he is now Pope Francis’ point man on the issue. However, O’Malley has failed to make a dent in the Lavendar Mafia. A local blog, Boston Catholic Insider, has posted a series on abuses by gay priests in Boston, taken from news reports. It makes interesting reading:
http://bostoncatholicinsider.wordpress.com/
I wish the MSM would highlight that 94% of priests are good men – and the priests that I know (as well as permanent deacons) are REALLY UPSET that there were priests who were living a life contradictory to what they were supposed to be doing.
The laity is also upset. At least 8,400 Catholic men have signed the Catholic Men United petition urging Pope Francis to remove those in the hierarchy who participated in cover ups. Use of a search engine will find the Catholic Men United letter and petition. I signed it. Men taking action.
How do we love this Pope? Easy, peasy – by praying for him. Love in this case isn’t flowers, rainbows, butterflies and cotton candy feelings. It’s praying for him so that he will have the inspiration, strength and courage to lead the Church in the right direction.
The thing that frustrates me the most about the silence and stonewalling coming out of Rome right now is that there may be (I don’t know this for a fact, but suspect that it’s true) so many good and holy priests under undo scrutiny just because some people are so eager to lump all the eggs together in one basket.
I wish and pray for the hierarchy to turn the lights on, get the broom out and remove the filth – so that the overwhelming majority of good and holy men can get back towards leading their congregations towards Heaven without gloomy clouds hanging over their heads.
The tweeting Joseph Cardinal Tobin ignores the root cause and bangs the clericalism drum in his platitude filled address:
A Special Video Message from Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin to the People of the Archdiocese of Newark
Elizabeth
Cardinal Cupich ordered all his priests to preach on a particular topic… and it was immigration? Does he dictate homily topics routinely?
I don’t know but any corporate exec (or moderator of website like this one) can select the kinds of thematic content they want discussed. I think this does fall within the purview of the bishop, cardinal or Pope.
Of course, the other issue is naturally messaging control and I am sure given that the Church is human, I am sure this played into his thinking.
You can bet that the cadre within the Vatican are actively pursuing talking points and messaging strategies. “Clericalism” seems to be the de jour issue. But of course this raises the question of how to address the problem of clericalism. It is also sexuality of course. And it is many things
But the biggest point is that the Church is ill prepared to address this challenge and is reverting to slogans, talking points, etc.
I admit I am not all that smart, but the way I understand clericalism is someone who unduly uses their authority to impost their will on other.
Say for example you have a bishop who in the midst of a huge Church scandal involving a bunch of homosexual priests, and has two priests in his jurisdiction caught having public sex, then uses his authority to try to force people to talk about some other useless subject completely unrelated.
This is the kind of Bishop that got the church into this mess to begin with. Ignore it, stay silent give no answers cover it up.
I must end this post before i get to name calling Cupich is an …………….. Pray for him
@joy65. Agree with MrsMacD. I turned it off at same point. LifeSiteNews is source of great links to current events. It provided the article quoting Fr. Zuhlsdorf [this blog] that appears in my church’s this week’s Sunday bulletin. Fr. Larry should listen to 9-2-2018 homily of Very Rev John Lankeit, SS Simon and Jude Cathedral, Phoenix AZ, broadcast on Relevant Radio at 5 PM Pacific Time, Sunday. Link to 20 min Audio here: https://simonjude.org/catholic-podcasts. Lankeit says: “You might say “Father! You sound angry! ” DUH! If we are not angry about what is happening right now, there is something wrong with us. But we must channel that anger.”
oakdiocesegirl2 & MrsMacD
Well I am not going to contradict Father Larry’s homily. He was a victim of abuse by a member(s) of the clergy and if he can keep his anger in check and even forgive what was done to him then I think I can agree with that. He sees that he can only move on in his life by doing this.
I am hurt, I am upset, I am totally disgusted by what members of the clergy and especially the higher ups in authority of MY CATHOLIC CHURCH have done to minors, young people and adults. God sees all and guess what, God has the LAST SAY! I continue to pray and I continue to TRUST GOD to settle all of this and heal His Church.
By blaming “clericalism” they kill three birds with one stone. They clear the homosexualists from culpability, they set up trads (clericalism is code for traditionalism) for the kill, and they promote laity programs.
Talking points of this diabolical agenda: Clericalism, Lay leadership, Immigration. Immigration superficially looks to be unrelated to the others….but as the bishops of Mexico pointed out in the 1940’s when the first Bracero programs were initiated to address the harvest labor shortage due to men being at war (WWII), immigration destroys families, it tears them asunder and leaves behind fatherless children and makes lonely fathers susceptible to all forms of vice. Fatherless boys develop Gender Identity Disorder…and you know the rest of the story. Purely demonic agenda spanning generations (just aside note: how many human organizations can carry out an agenda that spans that kind of time frame?). This is why we MUST pray for our bishops and priests who are always targeted for attack. It doesn’t behove us to have hell bound clergy. The power of prayer can snap and disentigrate even the most powerful bonds binding our clergy who have fallen prey to these demonic forces. Pray for Cupich, et al.
Also, traditionalism must be fortified to withstand the coming assault.
Brace yourselves.
Sorry to add more….
But doesn’t clericalism include power being more vested at the Vatican?
Pope Benedict XVI addressed the issue of child sex abuse accusations successfully by removing the authority of individual diocesean bishops, superiors, provincials, etc. to handle these claims and requiring that they all be handled by one office in Rome. He additionally began a clean sweep of the seminaries of homosexualists.
His forced removal signals to me that he was succeeding. The subsequent placement of the self described weak Pope Francis, (who has from day one begged for our prayers to help him have courage in the face of the lurking wolves) allows the Lavender Mafia or Gay Cabal, or whatever term you want use to go back to their previous program unimpeded.
Is this the reason for the push for a move towards greater synodality? By vesting power back in individual dioceses and their bishops, it allows for the abusers to act with greater impunity.
Is clericalism the proximate opposite of synodality?
If so then clericalism is the solution not the cause.
“Gaslighting”. That’s all these talking points amount to.
Diagnosing “clericalism” (or more broadly, “elitism”) as the root of all clerical sexual abuse seems to miss the mark mainly because all strata of society commit sexual abuse. Rich people do it, college students do it, school teachers do it, family members do it, and even poor people do it. Why should the cause of sexual abuse by priests be clericalism when for everybody else we’d say the cause is something more like lust and pride? Or the world, the flesh, and the devil?
It is said that pastors should “have the smell of their sheep”, rather than being clerical or elitist. In a sense this idea is fine; priests should spend time with laypeople. But sometimes abuse can happen precisely because the pastor has become too close to his sheep. Clerical abusers certainly smell like the people they abused, and having that smell certainly wouldn’t be a good thing.
How much of an effort would it be to mail a box of plastic straws to Cdl. Cupich?
Regarding clericalism as the root of sexual abuse, I read that Bishop McElroy says that during his tenure there haven’t been new instances of priests abusing kids, however there were 4 accusations against Catholic lay people.