Fr. Z's Blog | Formerly entitled: "What Does The Prayer Really Say?" – Clear, straight commentary on Catholic issues, liturgy and life by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf o{]:¬)

KC: Old St. Patrick’s – nearing its consecration

Posted on 25 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

When a church is newly built, desecrated, or in a major way restructured, it must be blessed in a solemn way before worship can take place within. There are different levels of blessing, including dedication and consecration.

Today the church called Old St. Patrick will be consecrated with the old Pontificale Romanum.

His Excellency Robert Finn, Bishop of Kansas City will do the honors.

Last night I stopped in at the church with friends who are hosting me here in KC.

At that point there was a lot of work to be done, but I was getting done!

A lot of the work on the church has been done by volunteers.

Cleaning the street before the ceremony.

Things still need to be assembled. I am told the confessionals were built yesterday.

A bishop’s cathedral from the 20’s has been resurrected.

Some pray.

The heavy cleaning will really get done now that the sisters have arrived in their work habits, with lots of rags and buckets.

The church is a real gem, after its $1.5 million dollar restoration.

Posted in My View |
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More Philadelphia blognic photos

Posted on 24 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

This is the best part about traveling… meeting wonderful people.

I very much appreciate that some of the folks who came had to come from quite a distance.

Here are a few more shots.

Since these are people into blogs, and all that, the modern ritual of the fancy phones had to take place right away.

Collecting and ordering drinks.

Some people like cameras better than others! Gotta love this one!

I made my way between the groups formed at the two ends and in the center. Here is one of the end groups.

It was a great time, truly. Too bad about the Phillies, but the blognic was a winner.

After, however, I was pretty hungry. One of the blognikers and I went to the Capital Grill near the courthouse, beautifully illuminated.

I suspected that it might be a nice place when I saw that famous Philadelphians such as as Patty LaBelle had a personal wine locker there.

A dry aged sirlion in lots of cracked pepper with creamed spinach, and a big jammy Zin. The zin was like drinking a glass of raspberry preserves with a hint of tobacco. It paired well.

Pretty much a perfect evening.

Thanks especially to WT who helped get the blognic together and who took me to supper.

Thanks Philadelphia!

And now its off to Kansas City.

Posted in Blognics, On the road |
23 Comments

The Naval Academy at Anapolis

Posted on 22 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Today we had tour of the Naval Academy from a friend who is a Catholic chaplain there. We began with the midshipmen’s muster at noon. After visiting many of the buildings, including the chapels, we also strolled about town a bit and had our own lunch. Included was a visit to St. Mary’s. It was a perfect fall day.

Posted in My View |
20 Comments

Shrine of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton

Posted on 22 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

We visited the shrine St Elizabeth Ann Seton this morning. Here are some views.

On our way out we spoke for a few minutes with a habitless old sister… One of the Daughters of Charity. She mentioned among other things that they had 8… 8… novices for the US. Her class had been 51. Then she said she had been to hear a speech at Fordham. She saw several groups of young sisters all in habits, all happy! She opined that maybe they need that now, but perhaps they’ll grow out of it. “Besides,” she said, “there was this article in America Magazine…”

Clueless.

No connection for her between happy, young, habits and vocations.

You might say a prayer to the Saint for religious vocations.

Posted in My View |
42 Comments

QUAERITUR: Can the congregation sing the Our Father at a TLM?

Posted on 20 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

From a seminarian reader:

Can the faithful chant the Pater Noster with the priest in the extraordinary form?

This will provoke strong reactions from the camp which holds that no one in the congregation should say or sing anything.

But… yes… I think the congregation can sing the Our Father and some other prayers during a sung Mass.

BUT… it depends very much on the sensibility of the community.

We have dealt with this many times on WDTPRS already. Perhaps some readers can dig up old links out of the ASK FATHER category.

Long before the Council it was clarified by the Holy See that the people could in fact do more than remain silent and participate through the singing of the choir/schola and the responses of the servers/sacred ministers.

At the time of this writing I am at Mater Ecclesiae in New Jersey, where the whole congregation sings many of the prayers, the whole Ordinary, though they do NOT sing the Our Father.

I have been to many places where the TLM is celebrated, and the congregation remains silent.

I don’t think that the congregation should either be dragooned into singing, nor repressed into silence. This is something congregations have to work out with their priests.

There are good arguments on both sides of the issue, as we have seen before on WDTPRS.

But, the bottom line is yes, even before the Council the Holy See said that the congregation could sing the Our Father with the priest during a sung Mass.

Posted in ASK FATHER Question Box |
76 Comments

BLOGNIC ALERT: Philadelphia – Thursday evening!

Posted on 19 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

I believe we have locked down the time and place for the Philadelphia blognic.

I can be at the Irish Pub at 20th & Walnut in the Rittenhouse Square area Thursday evening, 23 October, from 6:00-8:00 pm. MAP.

Other bloggers and clerics who read and post are especially welcome, though it is a weeknight and we all know how busy you are.

I suggest that if someone arrives a little early they might stake out an area. Thursday is Game 2 of the World Series, which starts at 8:00 pm. I suspect the place will be pretty amped up.

Before the blognic, I hope to spend time in the afternoon at the Museum, which closes at 5:30 pm on Thursday. I suppose I would then walk to the Pub, depending on the weather, perhaps with a visit to the Basilica on the way.

I have never seen the Basilica here. More on that as the day approaches.

As is the case for all blognics everywhere, this is very informal. People can order food for themselves, for others, or not. Order whatever you want to sip, for yourself, for others, or not, it’s up to you. There is no other agenda other than meet each other, chat and have some fun.

That the Phillies are in the Series is icing on the cake! That’ll just make this more memorable.

TO COMMENT GO HERE

Posted in Blognics, On the road, What Fr. Z is up to |
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Meeting seminarians

Posted on 18 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

One of the great things about traveling is meeting good people along the way.

Tonight three seminarians made their way from St. Charles Borromeo Seminary to Mater Ecclesiae for a period of adoration before the Blessed Sacrament exposed in the church for Forty Hours Devotion. They rang the door of the rectory and asked Fr. Pasley if I was around and… wouldn’t you know… I was!

So we sat and shot the breeze for a little while.

These are really good fellows and their dioceses should be very pleased to have them.

Seminarians impress me more and more.

Here we are with Fr. Robert Pasley, the locum tenens at Mater Ecclesiae.

I also learned to my delight that one of these men is a mutual friend of some faithful WDTPRS readers, both in the blog and the print version. A shout out to them as well! As a matter of fact, they helped him learn how to serve the TLM, thus contributing an important dimension to his future work as a priest.

Posted in My View |
11 Comments

QUAERITUR: Can priests say 3 Masses on both 2 and 3 November?

Posted on 18 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

A priest reader asks:

I have always said all three Masses on All Souls day. This year it will happen on Nov.2 for the OF and on Nov. 3 for the EF. I am inclined to say all three Masses on both days. Our diocese has ruled that the Saturday night Mass be for All Souls day. I will have two morning OF Masses on Nov.2 which will be for all souls day, and I have the EF Mass in the afternoon on Nov. 2 which needs to be 25th SUN after Pentecost. Interesting?

Yes… interesting!

This year All Souls falls on a Sunday. In the Ordinary Form, All Souls bumps the Sunday. In the Extraordinary Form’s calendar, the Sunday bumps All Souls to Monday 3 November.

So, we Latin priests of the Roman Rite have two All Souls this year.

Given that Holy Church says we have two Uses of one Roman Rite, and we can use the Roman Rite when we want, and since Canon Law says we can say three Masses on All Souls, and since we only keep one stipend on All Souls, and since we interpret law in the Church in a way that favors us, yes… I think we can say three Masses on both 2 and 3 November.

Interesting!

Posted in ASK FATHER Question Box, Mail from priests |
22 Comments

QUAERITUR: Can “ad orientem” worship be forbidden?

Posted on 18 October 2008 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

UPDATE: 18:47 GMT

I checked with a friend who is in a position to know these things in an authoritative way:

Lawfully, I do not think so. Provision is made for it in the Institutio Generalis. cf. Medina’s response to a quaesitum published in COMMUNICATIONES 25 September 2000.

ORIGINAL POST:

From a reader:

Does a local ordinary have the authority to prevent a parish/ priest from celebrating the Novus Ordo ad orientem? Didn’t the Vatican have a clarification in the 80’s that permitted either versus populem or ad orientem celebration of the Novus Ordo? I am concerned because for years a parish in my diocese celebrated the Novus Ordo ad orientem until a few years ago when a new ordinary forbade it. Does he have the authority to do this or is there some politics at work here? I’m not including any names so as not to stir controversy but perhaps a letter to the CDW is in order – just wanted to check my facts before I did. Feel free to post this on your blog for general feedback.

My impression is that an ordinary does not have the authority to forbid Mass from being celebrated ad orientem. Nor does he have the authority to require that all Masses be celebrated versus populum.

It seems to the rubrics for Mass assume that Mass is ad orientem. The priest is instructed to turn to the people at certain times and then turn back to the altar. So, it seems to me very difficult for anyone to be forbidden from celebrating Mass according to the rubrics.

At the same time, if an altar is constructed such that Mass can be celebrated from either side, then it should be possible to use the altar from either side. GIRM 299 actually assumes that you are using the altar for ad orientem worship because it provides that you can when it is opportune use it also for versus populum Masses.

No… I don’t think a bishop can either forbid or require this, just as I don’t think he can forbid Latin, or Gregorian chant, or forbid Roman vestments, etc.

A query to the CDW would be interesting. I’ll dig some more.

Posted in ASK FATHER Question Box, Mail from priests |
27 Comments