Dr. Peters (canonist) on Nancy Pelosi (public abortion absolutist)

COMING SOON

The mighty Canonical Defender, Prof. Ed Peters, has posted on his excellent blog In The Light Of The Law a comment about Rep. Nancy Pelosi’s (D-CA) statement that, as a Catholic, she will stand with the Obama Administration against the Catholic Church.

My emphases and comments.

Nancy Pelosi deserves to be taken seriously. Very seriously.

As a canon lawyer, my view is that Nancy Pelosi deserves to be deprived of holy Communion as the just consequence of her public actions; as her fellow Catholic, my view is that Nancy Pelosi deserves to be deprived of holy Communion to bring home to her and to the wider faith community the gravity of her conduct and the need to avoid such conduct altogether or, that failing, at least to repent of it. Quickly.

In March 2010, I expressed the view that Nancy Pelosi’s protracted and public anti-life conduct, which she repeatedly justifies with (twisted takes on) the Catholic faith, sufficed, in my view, to bring about her debarment from the reception of holy Communion under Canon 915.

If Pelosi’s “prolonged public conduct does not qualify as obstinate perseverance in manifest grave sin,” I wrote two years ago, “then, in all sincerity, I must admit to not knowing what would constitute obstinate perseverance in manifest grave sin.”

It’s now February of 2012, and nothing in Pelosi’s conduct over the last 23 months suggests any emendation of her attitudes toward killing unborn babies, etc., etc., etc. Indeed her recent call for Catholics qua Catholics to unite behind, of all things!, President Obama’s plan to impose immoral policies on private medical insurance plans—which call provoked this moving cri de coeur from Fr. Zuhlsdorf—suggests that Pelosi’s views, like Pharaoh’s heart, have only hardened with time.

Canon 915as I and others have explained many times, is not about impositions on individual conscience, it’s about public consequences for public behavior. [PUBLIC behavior.] It’s about taking people at their word and acknowledging the character of their actions. It’s about not pretending that people don’t really mean what they repeatedly say and what they repeatedly do.

Nancy Pelosi obviously means exactly what she says, and she regularly backs up her words with deeds. She deserves to be taken seriously. Very seriously.

His combox is closed.  You can discuss this here, but I am turning on comment moderation.  Be sure to visit Dr. Peters’ site and spike his stats!

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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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56 Responses to Dr. Peters (canonist) on Nancy Pelosi (public abortion absolutist)

  1. Maggie says:

    Who has jurisdiction in this case- her home archbishop, +Niederauer, or +Cardinal Wuerl?

  2. thefeds says:

    Fr. Z, I think what must have happened while we weren’t watching, was that Pope Benedict XVI took a breath, and in the interim, Nancy elected herself the popess. I’m going take a real good look at the video and see if we missed something there…
    The Feds

  3. disco says:

    I think she should be excommunicated. It might make the Church look bad but I really think it needs to happen. A public event at the national shrine, Becket style.

  4. heway says:

    How could I do anything but agree whole heartedly with Dr. Peters. His remarks should be send to her archbishop in California and Archbishop Wuerl in DC. In the event they do not act, perhaps
    Archbishop, Cardinal desig. Dolan could find a way to close her mouth/make her repent.
    Many having been praying for her recantation over the years. I understand that Kathleen sseblius has already been denied communion by her Bishop – God bless and help both of them to see the error of their ways and speech.

  5. Rick Santorum said “the bishops got what they deserved.” I’m surprised he said this, but he has a point. I constantly read here and on the blogs you link to a call to deny Holy Communion to politicians like Nancy Pelosi, but it won’t happen. These bishops won’t do it.

  6. EXCHIEF says:

    If there were ever a tme for a public excommunication it is now–to send a message to her which, if she doesn’t get it, may cost her for eternity; to send a message to “c”atholics who share her views; and to send a positive message to Catholics who have been and are scandalized by Ms Pelosi’s words and actions.

  7. In his book-length interview with Peter Seewald (Light of the World, pp. 25-26) the Holy Father had something very apt to say about the disappearance of canonical penalties in the 1960s:

    “The prevailing mentality was that the Church must not be a Church of laws, but, rather, a Church of love; she must not punish. Thus the awareness that punishment can be an act of love ceased to exist. This led to an odd darkening of the mind, even in very good people.

    “Today we have to learn all over again that love for the sinner and love for the person who has been harmed are correctly balanced if I punish the sinner in the form that is possible and appropriate. In this respect there was in the past a change of mentality, in which the law and the need for punishment were obscured. Ultimately this also narrowed the concept of love, which in fact is not just being nice or courteous, but is found in the truth. And another component of truth is that I must punish the one who has sinned against real love.”

  8. DFWShook says:

    I watched the movie Becket over the weekend and the excommunication scene comes to mind.

  9. rodin says:

    It is not only her religion that Pelosi has denied, but also the Constitution of the United States. Her cupidity in seeking personal power has prompted her apostasy and to what benefit. With her colleagues she is working for her own destruction as well as that of her country. Brick by brick…today an attack on the First Amendment to the Constitution, tomorrow the Second, etc.

  10. The Astronomer says:

    This she-wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing, masquerading as a ‘devout Catholic, may fool her fellow travelers, but…..

    God is not mocked.

    The hubris of the anti-Christian Democrats will ultimately be their undoing, for sooner or later they will cross the Rubicon. Remember the final words of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto in TORA, TORA, TORA : “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. “ Calling Pope Julius II………..

  11. JMody says:

    How about the idea that punishment is somehow to provide closure for victims or relatives of victims — where did THAT come from. Nope, the idea that societal upheaval and certain Vat-2 surprises both happened in the 1960′s is JUST A COINCIDENCE is complete balderdash.

    I agree whole-heartedly with Doc Peters, and I would add, don’t stop there, excommunicate her and the rest of the “catholics” in Congress and the Administration (Sebelius and Biden, too).

    And to put his point a different way, if this isn’t enough for it, what would be? Punishment has its place, and it is a GOOD thing.

  12. GordonB says:

    Given the recent developments, it seems to me the pastoral considerations, considering the recent mandate, require definitive action as to Pelosi. Maybe, if we pray really hard, Biden will have a grace filled moment and resign from his office in protest his boss’s clear attack on the Body of Christ.

  13. StJude says:

    I would be surprised if Pelosi actually attends mass.
    A public denial would help the Catholics that do attend. This has gone on too long.
    There are far too many pro abort Catholics… and.. this has to stop.

    Hard to appeal to Christians to convert when their idea of a Catholic is Pelosi, Biden and Seblius.

  14. pm125 says:

    This situation is dire. Over the past weekend, with the Bishop’s letter in a bulletin and a plea from a pulpit for Catholics to communicate with Congressional leaders, I joined a chat at the bakery with two women I know. “Well, yeah, abortion…. but the bc pills? Catholic women in the government promote them. Oh, it’s terrible about the 11 year olds, but my son’s have girlfriends, heh, heh …” and on. There is confusion. The young people don’t know the Commandments or the value of their souls, parents are complacently following leaders, and grandparents are praying quietly so there are no waves in the family. Over time during lent, I hope the issue of Catholic conscience violation is clearly defined for people.

  15. Sword40 says:

    It appears tha Mark Shea doesn’t care for the articles of Fr. Z or those who post on this site. well, what do you expect from a liberal.

  16. avecrux says:

    This is such a very serious matter – and we really don’t know what the future brings for our families and how to provide for them in the face of these moral dilemmas. Nancy Pelosi a very active part of promoting/defending her fellow Catholics’ active persecution. I’m not sure you can say it any more kindly than that. Dear Bishops, we are praying and fasting for you. There is a wolf attacking your sheep. May you be filled with fortitude.

  17. What I find so personally exasperating about Nancy Pelosi is the intolerable strain she places on the good intentions and self-restraint of Catholics. We’re really not supposed to go round offering opinions about this or that individual’s probable destination in the life that is to come; the Nancy Pelosis of the world make that so much more difficult.

  18. Denis says:

    Is canon 915 applied by the priest giving Communion, or by the bishop? Can it be applied to all dioceses in a country? What happens when a bishop invokes canon 915 but a priest in his diocese refuses to comply.

    My impression is that the application of canon 915 is typically left up to the priest giving communion to apply, which weakens the impact of such a penalty. If one priest refuses to give you communion, you can always find another one who will. I remember something like this happening with a law professor who endorsed obama and was appointed ambassador to a small island country. The end result was that the priest who refused him communion was made to look like a ‘hard liner’ and that law professor/ambassador just found someone else to give him communion.

  19. Cathy says:

    If our Bishop(s) do nothing personally for Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the gang of pr0-intrinsic evils as rights Catholic politicians, then why bother signing the petition(s) against the mandate? If a poll indicates that only 10% of Catholics use contraception, are these souls not deserving of the truth in regards to the intrinsic evil they are committing? If it is 99%, are these souls not deserving of the truth in regards to the intrinsic evil they are committing? If Canon Law is summed upped as being for the salvation of souls, then what is the denial of the enforcement of Canon Law to be summed up as?

  20. ckdexterhaven says:

    I appreciate the fact that Dr. Peters emphasized that Nancy Pelosi and her statements should be taken seriously. I think the tendency for some is to look at politics as a game, and to believe that Pelosi doesn’t really mean what she says. She means it. Let’s not forget that HHS Secretary Sebelius (also a Catholic) was giving a speech to NARAL in October and said “We are in a War”. They are in a war against the Catholic Church and the Constitution.

  21. wmeyer says:

    Sword40, with respect to Mr. Shea, I was not much impressed by his leap to judge Fr. Corapi, in the midst of that worthy’s own trouble and sorrows. I’m afraid Mr. Shea is rather impressed with himself.

    Maggie, I do not know who has jurisdiction, but Abp. Niederauer did invite her to a private discussion, a year or so ago. I don’t recall that her behavior showed any signs of change.

  22. Tina in Ashburn says:

    Not only is punishment an act of love for the sinner, but for all who are watching and affected by public bad behavior. Its bad enough when a person puts himself at risk by sinning without being corrected – additionally, the bad example and scandal affects everyone.

    Do people recognize the correlation of uncorrected bad behavior of public figures and the tyranny we now suffer from their attacks on OUR freedom to act rightly?

    Oh, and if Ms Pelosi shows up for Communion quietly somewhere in DC, without makeup, fanfare, the recognizable clothes – it is very possible that the priest has no idea who she is when distributing Communion. [That may be so, but she would know and God would know and God cannot be fooled.]

  23. Supertradmum says:

    Thomas More prayed for Henry VIII. Edmund Campion prayed for Elizabeth I. We must pray for Nancy Pelosi. We on this blog might be the only ones in the world praying for her immortal soul. [That's right.]

  24. Ioannes Andreades says:

    The time to take action with Ms. Pelosi was long ago. Now, if the bishop of S.F. or D.C. takes any action regarding her admission to communion or some other worse penalty, it won’t be seen as an action of sollicitude for her soul (indeed, I would be skeptical) but as part of a political campaign against the new HHS mandate, which it must not be seen to be. [Agreed. But I don't think that inaction now is justified by inaction before. The circumstances are changing.]

  25. Supertradmum says:

    By the way, I am so glad for this clarification, but do some bishop’s, the very few, perhaps not believe in excommunication? http://supertradmum-etheldredasplace.blogspot.com/2012/02/are-priests-afraid-of-hell-do-some.html

  26. Maltese says:

    “We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it” LOL! Rick Santorum, btw, only prays at the Traditional Latin Mass. [Proof, please? Links to article wherein he says that would be enough.]

  27. Kerry says:

    Rush said “It’s not the government’s business to make any church or any religion “modernize,” quote, unquote, or get with the program or what have you. There is no permissible way the government can do this, according to our Constitution. But the Constitution doesn’t matter here, which is really what this is all about. The Constitution doesn’t matter to the regime. The regime is simply saying, “To hell with the Constitution. We’re gonna implement this regardless what the Constitution says!” But if you don’t like the Catholic Church view on abortion, if you don’t like their view on contraception, don’t be Catholic. If you don’t like what the Methodist Church says or if you don’t like what you hear in synagogue, don’t go. It’s as simple as that.

    But Obama wants you to believe that the Church has all these prisoners. Everybody who shows up for Mass is a prisoner. They’re all wishing the Church would modernize and change. But the Church, being obstinate, won’t. What they don’t tell is people can get up and leave Mass. They can walk out of there if they don’t like it. They don’t have to sign up for the articles of faith. It’s theology. This is no place for the government to be. They are taking what are moral and religious beliefs and turning them into totally nothing but political elements multiply. And when it becomes political, then the regime says they can force people to agree with or not agree with or what have you. This is an abomination. The Catholic Church is just the latest springboard. The target here is the Constitution of the United States, pure and simple.”

    The target is the Constitution. Imaginary “O” 2012 election slogan, “S###w the Constitution, Give me Power! “

  28. pfreddys says:

    I think her actions make clear my statement that after the HHS dictat no one to whom the name Catholic means anything can support Obama.

  29. skull kid says:

    You can see she is VERY uncomfortable with all her facial twitches, looking away, shuffling papers etc…

  30. magdallena says:

    Do you think she is deliberately provoking excommunication ? Perhaps, in her twisted mind, she feels that would be politically helpful? Or perhaps she is so narcissistic that she believes it would cause a “scandal” if the Church excommunicated her? [I doubt it. It seems to me that, if she thinks of it at all, she considers the American bishops to be so feckless that neither Card. Wuerl nor Archbp. Niederauer would have the gumption to do it. Nevertheless, in that video, when the question came up, she sure looked nervous until she heard a line she could latch onto. I think she was rattled, which made her more aggressive. IMO.]

  31. Andy Milam says:

    I have long held that in this country we have a serious problem regarding Catholicism which goes back to the late 1800s and the heresy of Americanism. This is a modern version of that heresy. In the 1890s the heresy centered around the notion of separation of Church and State. The same issues exist today.

    Nancy Pelosi and those like her have “personal beliefs” which cannot be interfered with while running this country (yes, people like Pelosi, actually do run this country). This is a clear example of the heresy.

    Pope Leo XIII stated that an America where church and state are “dissevered and divorced,” and wrote of his preference for a closer relationship between the Catholic Church and the State, along European lines. I don’t disagree with the mentality. I’m not speaking of European lines of today, but rather, European lines of the late 19th century, when it was markedly more Catholic, not only in nature, but also in practice.

    Walking hand in hand with Americanist heresy was the Modernist heresy. Pope Leo recognized this when he said that the Church “would bring forth more abundant fruits if, in addition to liberty, she enjoyed the favor of the laws and the patronage of the public authority.”

    What we are seeing here friends is a two-fold resurrection. We are seeing the Americanist heresy and the Modernist heresy re-invigorated. To defeat Pelosi and those like her, we must get them (Catholic civil leaders) to rehabilitate from those two heresies. The rehabilitation from Americanism starts with adhering to Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae and applying it in today’s world. The rehabilitation from Modernism starts with Pascendi Dominici gregis.

    That is how it starts. That is the only way it can start. Until then, most opining is simply that, opining. Action is the only way to combat heresy. It is time for the Holy Father to put his tiara back on, start acting like the temporal ruler that he is (along with the spiritual ruler) and demand, as Popes Leo and Pius did, that Catholics act like Catholics. The age of Modernist diplomacy failed. Pray, yes…but put action behind the prayer. This does fall on the Holy Father and it falls on his bishops in the USA.

    We Catholics who understand the difference between Catholics in American and American Catholics are growing. There is no such thing as an American Catholic. There are only Catholics in America. America can’t save my soul. Catholicism can. I know which comes first.

  32. ivan_the_mad says:

    @Sword40: I don’t agree with Mark Shea’s article “In which I dissent from Fr. Z and his readers” (which is what I assume you’re referencing), but … you are absolutely proving his point.

  33. Judith Dalmas says:

    As a Anglican convert, it seems to call for the obvious answer, the Church should stand by its beliefs . Nancy has put herself above the Catholic Church and should be not” in communion” with it by her own choice.

  34. Northern Ox says:

    I believe that Archbishop Niederauer is well over 75, and thus has already has submitted his resignation to the Holy Father as required by canon law. It would seem opportune for him to address this matter before his resignation is accepted, rather than leaving it as a lingering major concern for his successor to inherit.

  35. LarryPGH says:

    I’d read the reports of the press conference, but seeing the video clip was a whole ‘nother thing.

    The sheer dismissive demeanor of Pelosi in dealing with the question was quite enlightening…

  36. Ellen says:

    I try very hard not to think ill of Pelosi. I try very hard to pray for her.

    I’m still trying.

    Lord, I do not like that woman.

  37. skull kid says:

    Pope Benedict might be dropping hints about this:

    ”Admonish sinners, Pope urges faithful in Lenten Message

    In his annual Lenten Message for 2012, Pope Benedict XVI calls attention to the duty of Christians to admonish and correct one another, stressing that such fraternal correction is an important form of charity.”
    http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=13247

    So if the bishops keep silent, that would be most uncharitable.

  38. poohbear says:

    Really, its time for all priests and bishops to get tough. We need to hear, from the altar, the truth about birth control and abortion. The Bishops’ letter being read at Mass was great, but one letter read once isn’t enough. Its a great start, but hearing the truth once, vs hearing lies all day, every day, won’t change people’s minds, let alone their hearts.

    Dear Bishops, please lead us, we want to be led in the truth.. We are praying for you.

    We have been through 40+ years in the desert of happy-clappy, feel good, politically correct sermons, wishy-washy religious ed classes and poor RCIA programs, its time to get us out of the desert and feed us some meat.

  39. Richard W Comerford says:

    Re: First Put Your Own House in Order

    In 1968 the Local Ordinary condemned the National Catholicity Reporter (“Fish-wrap”) , ordered it to stop using the word “Catholic” and called on his fellow Bishops f0r support. See: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00Cofvport. In response Bishop Thomas Gumbleton, Vicar General & Axillary Bishop for Detroit, became a regular columnist for Fish-wrap where he advocated for homosexuality, contraception, women’s ordination, intercommunion, and other controversial matters. See: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2006/jan/06012602.

    Bishop Gumbleton’s public behavior in this matter over a period of 44-years constitutes obstinate perseverance in manifest grave sin. Yet the good Bishop remains a priest in good standing and in full communion with his Archdiocese of Detroit.

    BTW the lawyer who authored the instant article is employed by the Seminary for the Archdiocese of Detroit

    If a Roman Catholic Bishop can publicly advocate for artificial contraception in a condemned publication for almost a half century without being denied Holt Communion how can a Catholic politician, in justice, be denied Holy Communion for advocating for the same intrinsic evil?

    “Who will follow an uncertain trumpet?” (cf 1 Cor 14:8).

    God bless

    Richard W Comerford

  40. PA mom says:

    The difference is that Pelosi is a national figure, commonly quoted and viewed on tv. The bishop you are referring to, I have never heard of, nor had I heard of the Reporter until I came to this site. I can only verify that when I did not firmly enough, but lovingly, correct my oldest child of her worst habits, she went on to teach them to her brother, who is now passing them along to the younger sister. And it is not easier to correct three than one.

  41. Andy Milam says:

    As a matter of clarification, Rick Santorum assists at St. Catherine of Siena in Great Falls, VA. He assists at a NOVUS ORDO Solemn Mass, in Latin, but not a TLM, Solemn Mass. Even the author of the article gets it wrong. Rick Santorum is not a “traddy” in the sense that we know “traddys;” rather he is a conservative Catholic, who adheres to the Novus Ordo.

    Please know that I’ve been to St. Catherine of Siena, while I was a seminarian at The Mount. It is a beautiful church, with a nice Novus Ordo liturgy. It is not, though a TLM Solemn Mass, though.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2831191/posts
    http://saintcatherineschurch.org/

    Points of clarification, per Fr. Z’s request above.

  42. Joseph-Mary says:

    Sebelius too and some other pro-abortion, culture of death folks who call themselves “devout catholics” and continue with impunity to give grace manifest and ongoing PUBLIC dissent and scandal.

    Pelosi should have had Bruskewitz for a bishop and seen if he would have only sat back, looked the other way and claimed to be “pastoral”.
    The ongoing scandals are a travesty. Decades of looking the other way and of embracing humanist ideals over the supernatual care of souls have brought us to this place where the Right to Life is taken and the Right to Liberty is also targeted. If we do not stand up now, prepare for the persecution on the horizon.

  43. wmeyer says:

    We need also to pray for Pres. Obama, for a conversion, and for any of our other leaders. We need to pray for them whether or not we agree with their actions. We must pray for those in error to turn away from their damaging actions, and for the rest to stay the course.

  44. Richard W Comerford says:

    Ms. PA mom:

    “The difference is that Pelosi is a national figure, commonly quoted and viewed on tv.”

    Ms. Pelosi is no ta successor to the Ap[ostlers. The good Bishop Gumbletom is indeed a national figure. Some of his awards:

    Isaac Hecker Peacemaker (1975), Metro Detroit Council of Churches (1976)
    Pacem in Terris Award (1979), Public Citizen of the Year Natl. Assoc. of Social Workers (1980)
    Institute for Peace and Justice (1981) <Justice and Peace Medal – St. Bonaventure University (1981), Jewish National Fund – Trees for Israel (1981), American Personnel & Guidance Assoc. (1981), Life Achievement Award – Interfaith Peace Ministry (1987), Groundwork Discipleship Award (1989), The Institute for International Peace – University of Notre Dame (1990)
    Palestine Aid Society (1990), University of Notre Dame Peacemaker (1991), Pope Paul VI Teacher of Peace – Pax Christi USA (1991), Pax Christi MI Purple Ribbon Award (1992)
    Pax Christi Ambassador of Peace (1992), Joseph C. Wilson Award – Xerox Corp. (1992) Pax Christi N.Y. Peacemaker Award (1992), Certificate of Appreciation – Dignity Detroit (1992)
    Honorary Chaplaincy Aids Award (1994), Outstanding Service & Witness Award Dignity/USA (1995), Bridge Building Award – New Ways Ministry (1995), Lifelong Honorary membership – In Pax Christi International (1995), Call to Action Leadership Award (1995), San Damiano – Madonna U. Press Symposium (1996), National Peace Foundation – Award of Peacemaker/Peacebuilder (1997), The Francis House Award (1997), Spirit of Detroit Award (1998), Alliance for Nuclear Accountability (1998), Bishop Dozier Peace & Justice Award – Christian Brothers University (1998), Humanitarian Award, MI Coalition for Human Rights (1998), 1998 PHD Award, Harambee, Core City Neighborhoods (1998), 1999 Peacemaking Award – Nebraskans for Peace (1999), 1999 Washington Theological Union – Distinguished Service Award (1999), Prophets of Peace Award – Benedictine Sisters of Erie (2000), Faithful Revolutionary Award – St. James Justice Action Ministry (2000), Civic & Humanitarian Award – Arab-American & Chaldean Council (2000), Lou Kousin Award – New Jersey Peace Action (2001)
    Humanitarian Service Award – LIFE for Relief & Development (2001), Lifetime Achievement Peacebuilder Award – Peace Action of Michigan (2002), Lifetime Achievement in Peacemaking – University of Missouri (2002), Dignity USA (2003), Sadako Peace Citation – Disarmament and Economic Conversion Committee of Sisters & Co-members of the Loretto Community (2003)
    Reconciler Award – National Franciscan Federation (2003), Theresa Maxis Award for Social Justice – Marygrove College, National Franciscan Federation (2003),Philip A. Hart Award – Michigan Women’s Hall of Fame (2003), Community Peace Maker Award – Wayne State University (2003),2005 Global Peace Award (2005),Mercyhurst College's Archbishop Oscar Romero Award (2007)

    Since 1968 he has also led the resistance to Humane Vitae. He has also been described as the Pope of the American Catholic Church. And the single most influential Bishop in the American Catholic i Church over the past half century.

    God bless

    Richard W Comerford

  45. CatholicDRE says:

    One Word: Traditor. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to make the mistake of the Donatists and refuse mercy or forgiveness in the face of repentance, but she is cooperating with a persecutor and we can’t pretend that the icy knife of treachery hasn’t pierced our back.

  46. Laura says:

    If one bishop – just ONE! were to invoke Canon 915 on one of these catholic politicians I predict there would be such an outburst of love and gratefulness that he would wish he had done it a lot sooner. Honestly, we would be so grateful if just one would step up. I would be even more grateful if my bishop of Washington DC would. If Pelosi’s obstinacy is not blatant enough to qualify I really, really cannot imagine what would.

  47. Joe in Canada says:

    Mr Shea has, like ghee, clarified himself:

    It’s only fair to say that Fr Z is perfectly right ….

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2012/02/since-i-criticized-him-below.html
    I wonder what the relevant bishops would do if Ms Pelosi publicly announced that she was channeling King Henry VIII.

  48. Gail F says:

    She makes me so mad!!!!! I’m not sure she even knows what she’s saying, she’s so wacky. Of course we should pray for her. But we can still be mad.

    PA Mom makes a good point. Those of us who follow Catholic blogs may know what other bishops do, but your typical Catholic pretty much knows what his or her bishop does — if even that. EVERYONE knows what Nancy Pelosi does and says. It’s just like Doug Kmeic, whom everyone on blogs loves to revile for being a prominent Catholic apologist for President Obama. I never heard of him until the Obama campaign and I still don’t know of anything he said or did before that. But I knew who Nancy Pelosi was long before that.

  49. wmeyer says:

    It is a characteristic of our age that there are words which will not be used by those who should declare them: treason, excommunication, penance, all are words which do not mesh with society’s notions of self esteem. Odd though, how so many can be condemned for insisting that right and wrong are not abstract concepts.

  50. AnAmericanMother says:

    Richard Comerford,
    I understand your point, but 99 and 94/100ths of those awards are political self-congratulation from within the liberal/radical echo chamber. It’s not like Mme. Pelosi, who actually holds national office.
    On a smaller scale, it’s like claiming I’m somehow ‘recognized’ locally because a city department gave me a plaque once for serving on a committee.
    I had never heard of Bp. Gumbleton (ret.) until I came on this blog. Of course, I’ve only been a Catholic since 1994, but still . . . .
    I don’t think he’s on a par even with the hideous Bishop Spong, who has largely been forgotten. [Rabbit hole.... closed.]

  51. M.D. says:

    Unfortunately, it seems the Bishop(s) may appear afraid of consequences?

  52. “I remember something like this happening with a law professor who endorsed obama and was appointed ambassador to a small island country.”
    @Denis The law professor in question was Douglas Kmiec, formerly dean of the Catholic University Law School and subsequently a professor of Human Rights (whatever that is) at Pepperdine. He abruptly deserted the pro-life movement to support Fearless Leader in 2008, and, in lieu of a hundred bucks tossed on the rumpled motel bed, accepted an appointment to be ambassador of Malta. Mark Shea is all for letting bygones be bygones over Kmiec’s tardy, obsequious, and insufficient recantation, but I say let’s rough him up rhetorically a little before we let him back in. Actions have consequences.

  53. tealady24 says:

    Two years — where are the bishops?
    This should include ALL public servants (aka politicians) who openly defy the Church with their Cuomo-esque rhetoric and blather.
    The only thing that will have anny kind of impact on these bishops is when ALL seat money disappears or dries up until said heretics are removed.
    Rick Santorum makes me so proud!

  54. Johnno says:

    Yes everyone, the bishops are going to war!

    A verbal war!

    One without actions…

    Somewhere in Heaven, God is also hearing their verbal prayers, and it’s possible He just might be willing to perform no actions either… for now, just to drive the ironic point home… Inevitably He will act though, and it will of course be the best time and the best way. God is good like that… But of course the bishops should also act. Because God has this habit of working through our actions. You see, God did help the Israelites defeat their enemies… but of course they had to actually go out there and actually fight and risk the dangers of battle… I’m not saying this is easy… But it will have to be done to get anywhere… It would be nice if He did that stuff He did in Egypt too and left our houses alone… but even then Moses and Aaron had to go up to Pharoah and have a face-off every single time. And hopefully Obama won’t wait for the 10th one before setting the Catholic Church free…

    Y’know, Pharoah also had this thing about population control and killing children… Sometimes I imagine that life in Egypt for the Hebrews was precisely the same as it was in our time. I imagine there was Egyptian propaganda too offering incentives and framing the murder of Hebrew children as good for the state and good for the Hebrews who after all are poor people with slave status being forced into labor and their needs are better served without having children to bring their standard of living down… The Egyptians had condoms too! Go visit the Egyptian Museum in Cairo!

  55. davwen says:

    I disagree with Dr. Peters regarding his opinion about Michael Voris and RealCatholic TV, but he’s right on regarding Ms. Pelosi. I think the same goes for Sebelius, Biden and many other “catholic” politicians who publicly (and with their votes) espouse the killing of unborn children (commonly known as abortion).

    Thanks,

    Dave (a sinner, but not publicly espousing sin) of Oregon