Summorum Pontificum and You

At NLM there is a good entry by Peter Kwasniewski about implementing Summorum Pontificum where you are.

He makes some practical points which I endorse… as one would expect since I also have made them.

WARNING: Peter links to a dangerous video that may make your ears bleed.  (Hint: David Haas… sapienti pauca….)

Do you want the Extraordinary Form where you are?

He rightly advises taking action, rather than just wishing.

Peter also wisely warns people off the trap of an “indult mentality”.   Summorum Pontificum was a game-changer, people.  Priests don’t need permission to use the older books.  Pastors don’t have to crawl with their trembling beggar bowl and cringe before the lord bishop.

I also like his point about not hitching your hopes only to specialist priests of the FSSP or ICK.  As good as they are, and they are great fellows and the groups are wonderful.  I hold that the real reform will being when more diocesan priests learn the older, traditional Form and use it regularly in their parishes.

MORE MORE MORE!  That’s what we need.

We must NOT be complacent with one Mass at a reasonable time at one parish.  We must NOT allow ourselves to be put into ghettos or concentration churches.  No.  Take it over the borders into new territories.  Invade!  Be the maquis!

And to you who haven’t yet been to Holy Mass in the traditional, Extraordinary Form… what are you waiting for?

As I have written in the past, you have been given what you need to get what you long for.   Stop moping about and RIDE THE BIKE!

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in Be The Maquis, Hard-Identity Catholicism, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM, The Coming Storm, The future and our choices and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.

38 Responses to Summorum Pontificum and You

  1. Gaetano says:

    Thanks for the trigger warning, but that psalm arrangement isn’t even in my top 50 most loathed modern church songs.

  2. Mike says:

    I especially liked the suggestion about buying Father a traditional Missal in the article that Professor Kwasniewski quotes. Altar cards, a biretta and some maniples would seem to be helpful too. It can only help if Father sees that we commit our treasure as a sign of genuine interest in the timeless beauty of the Traditional Mass.

  3. MWindsor says:

    Ok. How about some practical reality.

    1. I live in a diocese that is indifferent to Latin. (And this is an improvement. The previous bishop sent a particular priest to the ecclesial gulag for doing the Novus Ordo in Latin every week.)

    2. I live far from the only FSSP parish. I simply can’t make the two hour+ drive to get there for a variety of reasons.

    3. We had a priest run an “experimental” Latin Mass in a nearby parish for about six months. It was a daily Mass once a week, Novus Ordo, and the celebrant obviously didn’t like doing it (trust me on this). I couldn’t bring myself to go more than once because it was done so grudgingly. It was also scheduled at a time that was VERY hard for working commuters to make. But the people in charge can now say, “no one wants it – we proved that.”

    4. Four of the five priests in my suburban parish would be unable to tell you what Amo, Amas, Amat, Amamus, Amatis, Amant, might possibly mean. They don’t want to learn. It’s a dead language. Say “sed id est lingua ecclesia” to one of the priests in my parish and watch them go pale and begin to sweat.

    5. I offered to preside over vespers once a month in my parish (I got permission to do so). It was in “formal English” with “thee” and “thou” (via the Monastic Diurnal, St. Michael’s Abbey, Farnborough, England ). I got very little support from the parish because the pastor “didn’t care for that kind of language”. And that wasn’t even in Latin! Six people turned out in nine months. With a bit of practice, I could take a swing at Latin (spoken…no one on earth wants to hear me chant), but on one would care.

    I don’t see the NLM article as being terribly helpful in my/our situation.

    All I want, to be perfectly honest, is a well celebrated Mass, where God is at the center and it’s REAL worship. I don’t care what form the Mass is in, or what language is used. I get really tired of having my faith challenged by going to church on Sundays.

    If anyone can give me some useful ideas on how to get past this, I’d love to hear it.

  4. Facta Non Verba says:

    What is ICK?
    Whatever it is, it could have a better acronym.

  5. albizzi says:

    …”Priests don’t need permission to use the older books”…
    Yes, of course, but this is only theoretical.
    Practically the bishops who don’t like the old rite have many means to pressure their priests who would dare to say the Latin Mass without their permission.

    [True. Bishops can hurt priests in a zillion ways. But if priests are willing to stay in the ring and defend their rights, they are a harder to harm long term. And there is always the Bux Protocol.]

  6. everett says:

    ICK = Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest. They prefer ICRSP, ICRSS, or ICKSP, for obvious reasons.

  7. Phil says:

    We have several priests who are itching to say the Extraordinary Form in their parishes, but will not start anything for fear of our bishop. But there are a lot of private low Masses that one can find!

  8. APX says:

    “If anyone can give me some useful ideas on how to get past this, I’d love to hear it.”

    Relocate? That’s what I did.

  9. VeritasVereVincet says:

    I like that Psalm. (Of course, it was much better as the original “If Today You Hear His Voice”, with all the proper male pronouns and correct grammar. Gather Comp 2 mutilated quite a lot of lyrics.) But the fact that my musical sensibilities differ from Father Z’s is not news to me.

    As for EFLM, I love Latin, but once was more than enough. I have never felt compelled to consider going again.

  10. iamlucky13 says:

    I agree with others – the referenced Haas piece is among the least cringe-worthy of recent liturgical arrangements. That particularly performance also falls short of an exemplary rendition.

    I’ve been meaning to make more effort to attend and learn how to get the most out of the Extraordinary Form. It’s been a few years since I’ve been to one. The nearest is currently an hour away, which is not convenient, but hardly a significant burden.

    Still, I’m more concerned about the proper celebration of the Ordinary Form than gradual growth of the Extraordinary Form. For better or worse, it’s obvious that for the foreseeable future, attendance at the Extraordinary Form will remain the minority, yet those who participate in it will work to ensure it is celebrated well. Those who attend the Ordinary Form need exposure to the Mass celebrated properly, even in the newer form.

  11. juventutemDC says:

    Thanks for posting Fr. Z! Quick clarification– Juventutem DC wrote the article (and linked to that horrible responsorial as part of our shenaningans)! Prof. K very kindly posted it on our behalf.

    We are thankful both for his endorsement and yours! We are very much inspired by what you write.

    We urge the laity to get organized (already we hear some whiners our there that our article doesn’t help them “because of the bishop”–well, that was one of the indult-mentality fallacies we pointed out!). Of course, one great way to organize the laity is by starting a Juventutem chapter. Resources are available! There are other ways to do it too. Just do it.

    If the bishop intervenes– there is an appeal process (again, covered in the article). Even before that, lay Catholics can step forward and say, respectfully, but with great confidence through an understanding of the written law that is on their side, “Your Excellency, we appeal to your pastoral heart– please do not interfere with our going to Mass. We are doing so under the terms that Summorum and the Instruction make so very clear.” Indeed, a bishop may be able to make a priest’s life hard…if that priest is a problem. But an unenthusiastic bishop will probably be grateful that there is a priest, or priests, available to solve the problem of these wayward youths and get this nuisance off his plate so he can get back to his own priorities. If, however, the bishop’s priority is the suppression of the Mass and the suppression of Summorum, then Art. 7 appeal is the only option. Lay Catholics need to understand these provisions and exercise intellectual honesty and arrive at the conclusion that “if my bishop tells me not go to Mass” or “if my bishops tells me the Mass is bad” there is a serious problem and I am not it.

    And if people are disillusioned by the effect of one Art. 7 appeal– imagine 1,000 flooding in. GET ORGANIZED.

    We still urge people to exercise charity in the face of extreme obstacles. Don’t stoop to their levels; it isn’t worth it. It’s beneath your dignity.

  12. Fr. Hamilton says:

    I offered a Low Mass this morning. In my preparation before Mass I noted with some emotion that it was exactly 8 years ago today that I offered the Extraordinary Form for the very first time. On that occasion (14 September 2007) I offered my first one as a Solemn High Mass to observe and celebrate the date Summorum Pontificum became effective. We had a packed church that evening. The Exaltation of the Holy Cross holds a special place in my heart and my liturgical spirituality which has now been augmented by this personal anniversary. I consider it a providence that it was that very feast that was chosen for the effective date of Summorum Pontificum. It makes total sense too: The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is, before all else, a re-presentation of the sacrifice of the Cross. Quite frankly, and steering clear of validity arguments (which are not my debate), the Extraordinary Form communicates much better and much more clearly that we gather at the foot of the Cross to experience the saving sacrifice. A priest now for 16 years I am so grateful that half of my priesthood (thus far) has been influenced by the theology of the Extraordinary Form and — more recently — influenced by the actual regular offering of the Extraordinary Form in my parish.

    Happy 8th Anniversary Holy Mother Church!

  13. The Cobbler says:

    “Stop moping about and RIDE THE BIKE!”
    Woah. The bike used to be damned and now it’s not… Salvation pro multis, indeed!

  14. Nan says:

    @Fr. Hamilton, thank you for your service to the Church.

    My spiritual director is learning the EF and last time I looked on his parish webpage, the picture had him in a fiddleback. He’s new to the parish so no idea what goes on there except his music guy is great.

  15. St. Rafael says:

    We have several priests who are itching to say the Extraordinary Form in their parishes, but will not start anything for fear of our bishop. But there are a lot of private low Masses that one can find!

    That’s what’s wrong with the Church today. The priests need to be strong men and put God and the good of the faithful first. They should just go ahead and celebrate it without fear. It will take the bishop awhile to find out. There’s strength in numbers. If all these men do it and stand together united, and then the bishop finds out, it will be harder to put a end to it once they get started.

  16. Veritatis Splendor says:

    The reason I haven’t gone is because I don’t have a car. Sometime in the next few weeks though I intend to finally get over to the nearest one (30 minutes away, Low Mass on Saturday morning).

    My pastor (and only priest, he is also the vicar forane) has no desire for it and sees no need for it. I can think of a plethora of ways to coax him into it, but I will be leaving the area for college by this feast next year, so there wouldn’t even be the one person who wanted it. Luckily, all of the places I might relocate to have a weekly EF nearby (Irving, TX, Steubenville, OH, Washington, DC, or Providence, RI).

  17. Philemon says:

    About 3 months ago, I assisted at an EF Mass. I converted to Catholicism about 4 years ago. While there was an order to how we did worship in the small Protestant church I attended, I think of it as “zero liturgy” in that there were no prescribed prayers and even the order of the service could be changed. For me, Novus Ordo Mass was a very pleasant change.

    With that background, why didn’t I go?

    I have been afraid that I would not be welcome, perhaps because my wardrobe would not pass muster. While there were people there dressed better than I was, there were people dressed more casually as well. Casual dress is customary in Phoenix AZ so perhaps I need not have worried. I was greeted with the same indifference as at any Novus Ordo parish I have ever visited and as much as that might sound bad, I give full marks here.

    I was afraid that I would not be able to follow along. The missals provided worked well. To be honest, and I know this statement won’t make me any friends here, it was not that much different from the New Mass. What was interesting to me was how much the people did participate, singing along (it was a Sung Mass)from memory and quite beautifully. I thought there would be none of that.

    I did not receive Communion. I didn’t want to take the chance of making a spectacle of myself (never received at a rail). Maybe I should not have been afraid. Still, I didn’t want to ruin someone else’s Mass by my clumsiness.

    After going, I fail to see what all the trouble is about. I still love the New Mass.

    I would recommend that people go at least once to the Old Mass. At least you could then form a judgment based on your own experience.

  18. JonPatrick says:

    One thing I would say to all those who went to the TLM once and decided it wasn’t their cup of tea, don’t give up after one try. You really need to go about 4 or 5 times before you can make a judgement. Also remember that the Mass is not supposed to be about what we want, it is supposed to be about what is pleasing to God. The church spent several centuries working out how to worship in the way that was most pleasing to God and best expresses the fact that it is the re-presentation of the Holy Sacrifice.

    I started going to the TLM back in 2009 because I was tired of the Protestant attitude at many Ordinary Form parishes and stayed initially due to the music and the solid preaching. Eventually I got used to the Latin, purchased my own hand missal so I could follow along, and began to learn what the Mass is all about.

  19. Rosary Rose says:

    MWindsor – Today, Sept. 15 is the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows. How about starting a novena to Our Lady of Sorrows help clear the way to a Latin Mass for you?

  20. The Masked Chicken says:

    It has been almost two generations since Vatican II and only a few people remain who remember the shenanigans that went on after the Council that gave us the Novus Ordo Mass. This is definitely not the Mass the Council Fathers wanted, but it is the one they got because they were not vigilant in keeping track of what was going on after the Council. One of the best things that can be done to make it plain to the everyday pew-sitter how theologically suspect some of the non-required aspects of the modern liturgical praxis are (like ad Orientem worship, hymns, etc.) is to give them something to read about the history of the Liturgical Movement, which ended up with the run-away modern liturgical mess. A lot of these practices were being suggested in the 1930’s and 1940’s, long before Vatican II.

    I recommend two articles as a starting point – one of which Prof. Kwasniewski mentions in the footnotes of his Stubenville talk – The Day the Mass Changed, by Susan Benofy. It may be found, here:

    http://www.adoremus.org/0210Benofy.html

    Another good resource is the historian James Hitchcock, who wrote a book called The Recovery of the Sacred, the first chapter of which is called, The Liturgical Revolution. It may be found, here:

    http://www.adoremus.org/1109JHitchcock.html

    Finally, with regards to the shenanigans that led to the horrific music, Mnsr. Richard Schuler (an eminently qualified musicologist) wrote: A Chronical of the Reform:

    http://media.musicasacra.com/pdf/chron.pdf

    Just a few more article resources:

    One from Michael Davies

    http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/revolution11.htm

    and another summary by James Hitchcock:

    http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/hitchcock/06475.html

    The Chicken

  21. Mike says:

    When I was in college I once attended an illicit Tridentine Mass offered by a “circuit rider” priest of SSPX who is, as far as I know, still riding the circuit. It was a High Mass and in all its features was such a stark contrast to the Novus Ordo that I was sufficiently intimidated to stay away from the TLM for three decades.

    The first post-SP TLM I attended was a Low Mass. I still felt a powerful unease, but kept going back and am glad for the state of my soul that I did, as Novus Ordo Masses in what Mother Angelica has characterized as the “electric Church” (anytime you go, you get a shock) had become a series of progressively more difficult trials.

    That the TLM is knit into the overall liturgical fabric of the parishes at which I attend it around the nation’s capital (somewhat, I suspect, as in the Diocese of Madison) is something I find of particular benefit. It seems to charge the parish with a distinct sense of mission, without the sense of exile that I’ve felt at “set-aside” parishes in other dioceses.

    MWindsor, you are in my prayers. One wonders how well your diocese’s young priests are trained in Latin and in Scholastic theology — as well as what the overall state of vocations is there.

  22. MWindsor says:

    “Relocate? That’s what I did.” – Well, that hasn’t been an option up till now. But who knows what the future holds.

    “How about starting a novena to Our Lady of Sorrows help clear the way to a Latin Mass for you?” – Thanks. That’s actually a really good idea.

    “One wonders how well your diocese’s young priests are trained in Latin and in Scholastic theology — as well as what the overall state of vocations is there.” – The number of vocations is much better now than with the previous bishop. As to their education and formation, I can’t really say.

  23. Gerard Plourde says:

    Dear Philemon,

    I agree with your observation in the wake of attending Mass in the Extraordinary Form that “it was not that much different from the New Mass”. The key element required, as you point out, is participation (perhaps a better term is engagement). In both the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form the attentive, reverent presence of the celebrant and the congregation is essential. By that I mean a full recognition by the participants of the purpose for which they are gathered, i.e., giving due worship to God who has created and who loves us, for the congregation to consciously unite its intention to the Celebrant’s offering of the Unbloody Sacrifice that in turn unites us to the Sacrifice of the Son which redeems the world, and to be nourished by His Body and Blood in the reception of the Eucharist. The parish to which I belong, which celebrates in the Ordinary Form versus populum bears all of these hallmarks.

    I find it truly wonderful that love of the Extraordinary Form has sparked its zealous renewal among clergy and laity who attentively participate in its celebration. Having grown up for the first eleven years of my life prior to the introduction of the vernacular to parts of the Mass (which was mandated in 1964 in the United States while the Second Vatican Council was still in session and took effect for the 1964-65 Liturgical Year) and the later promulgation of the Mass of Bl. Paul VI, I know that this was not always the case. I went to Masses where the congregation, while physically present, was engaged in private devotion (usually the Rosary) that, while laudible, diverted their focus from the worship and sacrifice being offered. In those days there were also no missals provided by the parish to follow the Mass, although personal hand missals could be purchased at religious supply stores. Like now, they constituted a not inexpensive financial investment.

    I should also note that the arrangement of Entrance, Offertory, Communion and Recessional hymns was already in place before 1962 and that then as now the quality of the works produced varied. Participation by the congregation varied according to familiariarity. At Low Mass most often the music was provided by an organist and soloist. There were no hymnals in the pews.

    It was the struggle to reestablish the connection between the celebrant and the congregation that led St. Pius X, Ven. Pius XII and St. John XXIII to reform the liturgy even before the work of the Second Vatican Council. Both Pius XII and John XXIII encouraged the “dialogue” Mass, in which the responses to the Priest were said by the congregation as well as by the Server. This goal was only fully realized with the introduction of the vernacular, so in some ways it could be said that this change helped restore and renew the Extraordinary Form.

  24. Imrahil says:

    Dear Gerard Plourde,

    your comment is interesting, and I don’t now have time to answer. However, that one thing:

    in which the responses to the Priest were said by the congregation as well as by the Server. This goal was only fully realized with the introduction of the vernacular

    I doubt it. Only the upper class learnt Latin in school, it is true, but I don’t think the others understood nothing of it. And for sure they could learn the responses and what they meant. Plus, if not the majority then a big part of the Cath0lic populace actually speaks Latin as their mother tongue (that is, Romance languages – they underwent some changes, but I’m pretty sure an Italian does understand what et cum spiritu tuo means).

  25. Packrraat says:

    We are trying to relocate also. Have been researching and dreaming for about 6 years now about being parishioners at St. John the Baptist in Front Royal, VA. We have our house on the market with a couple interested in buying it. We’ll find out this evening if their offer is acceptable. It would take a lifetime (a much longer lifetime than we have left) and probably many miracles for our present parish to come anywhere close to what’s at St. John’s. Moving is the best action we can take to get what we see as the best.

  26. robtbrown says:

    Gerald Plourde,

    1. Replacement of the Introit, Offertory, and Communion antiphons with hymns is obviously a net loss for the liturgy–a replacement of the liturgical with the devotional.

    2. Recessional hymns are another matter–they are sung outside the mass, and thus outside the liturgy.

    3. Other than adding the name of St Joseph to the mass, I am unaware of any moves by JXXIII to reform the liturgy.

    4. The weakness of the 1962 Missal is the public low mass, which had almost no participatio actuosa. The dialogue mass, which began in the early 20th century, is intended to remedy this situation.

  27. robtbrown says:

    Also: Like many of other changes after Vat II, the replacement of various propers with hymns was being done by some before the Council.

  28. arickett says:

    A tip from someone who as happy with NO as TLM don’t do what the local TLM advocates do in my parish. Which is to make full use of heating, lighting, candles wine hosts etc repeated leave the heating and lights on all night so I or the preist now have to check every time they use the church and expect the parish to feed and water all the preists they invite BUT never have a collection for any purpose other than promoting TLM mass.

    If you take out put back.

  29. Gerard Plourde says:

    Dear Masked Chicken,

    The Susan Benofy article is a gem. I stumbled across it while I was seeking to check the accuracy of my memory of half-century old events.

    Dear Imrahil,

    I apologize for sloppy syntax. My intended thought was that participation in the dialogue Mass was achieved in the introduction of the vernacular. Rather than being merely tolerated it was actively encouraged. This change in attitude toward dialogue Masses seems now to have established itself in the Extraordinary Form, something that in my (admittedly limited) experience had not taken root before the Second Vatican Council.

    Dear robtbrown,

    Re John XXIII – You’re correct that adding St. Joseph was the sole change he inaugurated. The 1960 revision of the General Roman Calendar had begun under Pius XII as a continuation of the revision begun with that of 1955.

    As for the loss of the Introit, Offertory and Communion antiphons – the only one truly gone is the Offertory antiphon. At Masses with no music (most weekday Masses) the Entrance Antiphon and Communion Antiphon are still said.

    My 1962 St. Joseph Daily Missal (copyright 1961) lays out in the introduction the participation urged for the dialogue Low Mass in the 1958 Instruction. This included allowance to make all the responses of the Server, to recite the Domine non sum Dignus at the Communion of the people and to recite with the priest the Gloria, Creed, Sanctus and Agnus Dei. It even allowed recitation of the Introit, Gradual, Offertory and Communion antiphons for those able to do so in Latin (these texts that were not readliy available to the laity).

  30. churchlady says:

    For those in Dominican parishes, encourage your friars to learn the beautiful Dominican Rite and pray that the student brothers in all the Provinces will learn it, too. Encourage your priests to celebrate this liturgy more often, ideally weekly.

  31. robtbrown says:

    Gerald Plourde says,

    Re John XXIII – You’re correct that adding St. Joseph was the sole change he inaugurated.

    Gee, thanks. I’m thrilled with your approval.

    The 1960 revision of the General Roman Calendar had begun under Pius XII as a continuation of the revision begun with that of 1955.

    The question at hand is not the pre Vat II revision of the Roman Calendar, which of course has little to do with what happened with the Novus Ordo calendar. Nor is the restoration by Pius XII of the Easter Vigil related to Summorum Pontificum.

    As for the loss of the Introit, Offertory and Communion antiphons – the only one truly gone is the Offertory antiphon. At Masses with no music (most weekday Masses) the Entrance Antiphon and Communion Antiphon are still said.

    The experience of most Catholics is limited to Sunday mass, in which the Introit and Communion antiphons are usually suppressed in favor of a devotional song.

    My 1962 St. Joseph Daily Missal (copyright 1961) lays out in the introduction the participation urged for the dialogue Low Mass in the 1958 Instruction. This included allowance to make all the responses of the Server, to recite the Domine non sum Dignus at the Communion of the people and to recite with the priest the Gloria, Creed, Sanctus and Agnus Dei. It even allowed recitation of the Introit, Gradual, Offertory and Communion antiphons for those able to do so in Latin (these texts that were not readliy available to the laity).

    It was the desire of the Father of the (legitimate) Liturgical Movement, Dom Gueranger, that the people actively participate in chanting the Commons (Gloria, Credo, Agnus Dei). This would be a move away from listening to a choir singing them. Obviously, chant of the propers, i.e., the antiphons, would be unfamiliar to most in the pews.

  32. robtbrown says:

    Gerald should be Gerard

  33. Athelstan says:

    Hello MWindsor,

    I suspect I know which diocese you’re in – and my heart goes out to you. But since I can’t be sure of my assumption, I will cast my remark in a more general light.

    As the original Juventutem DC article at NLM notes, Summorum really is a priest-empowering law. It gives them rights they did not have before. And in this connection, the easiest road forward is to identify a priest who is willing and interested, and offer all the support you can. He doesn’t need the permission of the bishop (though hostile chancery personnel may dictate that he proceed prudently, perhaps by starting out with private Masses that don’t show up in the bulletin or the website – fortunately, email lists and mailchimp are wonderful tools not available to traditionalists of years past).

    This may not be easy or even possible in your diocese, or at least nowhere within easy travel distance. Perhaps you’ve already struck out with all the nearby priests. If that’s the case, you must proceed along the lines that Juventutem DC points out in their post up above here in the combox – and, as they urge, exercise charity at every turn.

    And pray. Prayer has achieved surprising things for some traditional Mass hopefuls over the years. A novena can work some amazing results.

  34. Athelstan says:

    P.S. I will second JonPatrick’s advice: “don’t give up after one try. You really need to go about 4 or 5 times before you can make a judgement.” It was true for me, and I can’t tell you how many other people have related the same experience. Give it a good month, four Sundays in a row – hopefully a Sunday Sung Mass. It can take a bit to sink in, but once it does…

  35. acardnal says:

    Mike wrote,“That the TLM is knit into the overall liturgical fabric of the parishes at which I attend it around the nation’s capital (somewhat, I suspect, as in the Diocese of Madison) is something I find of particular benefit.”

    As someone who lived in the diocese of Arlington for many years I can confirm your remark about integration of the TLM into the liturgical life there. But unfortunately here in the d. of Madison, this is not the case. Not yet anyway. The only parishes that I am aware of that celebrate both the O.F. and E.F. (TLM) daily are run by priests of the Society of Jesus Christ, the Priest. There is one diocesan priest in Lancaster who celebrates the TLM several times a week and on Sunday in addition to the O.F. And one parish where the TLM is celebrated by diocesan priests on Sunday.

    Now that there are a handful of trained diocesan priests who can celebrate the TLM, I hope to see daily and Sunday celebrations of the TLM appear at various parishes but so far I have only seen them assist at the bishop’s pontifical Masses.

  36. acardnal says:

    Correction: the TLM is not offered on Sunday in Lancaster; there is only a single O.F. Mass.

  37. Veritatis Splendor says:

    churchlady, My brother is one of those Student Brothers. He has at least 4 more years to ordaination, but he is already beginning to learn the Dominican Rite.

  38. Luvadoxi says:

    In the real world, however–in our diocese, which is huge, there is one indult ghettoized Mass. The bishop has forbidden his seminarians from learning the EF. No priest is going to go against the bishop.