His Hermeneuticalness redirected me to a pointed observation made by the irrepressible Diogenes of Off The Record.
He tackles the dreadful Q&A His Eminence Roger Card. Mahony engaged in online from the LA Three Days of Darkness… er um… Religious Education Congress.
You might recall His Eminence’s condescending slap and Pope Benedict and the distortion of the TLM.
It’s Religious Ed Congress time again in LA, at which Cardinal Mahony hosts his customary Internet chat-room to let the faithful put their questions to him. As often, His Eminence deals with uncertainties by means of answers that would not occur to Ratzinger. Or Charles Borromeo.
Troubled: Our parish priests are a bit stand off-ish. What are some suggestions to help us parishioners build a bond with our priests?
Cardinal Mahony: Try giving them a big hug!!!!
I can think of 714 million excellent reasons — considering only the Los Angeles Archdiocese — why clerical stand-off-ishness ought not be overcome by tactile expressions of affection.
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No wonder they are stand-offish!
Ha! One of the great liberations of my life was making my perpetual vows and getting out of our formation program, and no longer having to endure the wandering about the Chapel having to hug everyone at the Sign of Peace. (Not to mention the passing of the Host around the circle, being made to acclaim the consecration of grape juice, and other such things.)
2011 can’t come soon enough. Pray for the successor to the Archbishop. He’ll need it!!
At which part of the Mass does one give the hug? Is it in RED?
stand offish priest + spontaneous forced hug = punch in the face
I’ve talked to a priest who is a good friend of mine, and he plainly admitted that he has scaled back his “huggy-ness” after all the mess with the clerical abuse scandals – and he’s as solid as a rock in all things Catholic.
What I find most worrisome is the deep and passionate split in the American Church today. If one goes to the NCR article above and reads the comments and compares these to the ones found in this and other orthodox Catholic blogs, one is struck about how deeply divided the Church is, perhaps mirroring the deep divison of modern Western society itself. Schism is a real possibility I fear, and I do not mean the SSPX. I think Abp Chaput is quite correct in pointing out the mess that has been made in Catholic catechetics over the past 40 years and we now see the fruits, or, rather, lack of them. Much of the dicvision is the result of not understanding Catholic teaching. Let us pray even more fervently for the Holy Father.
yeah, let’s give more hugs….not…Praying hard for whoever has to come to my archdiocese next.
His Eminence failed his own advice concerning the Sisters of Bethany. They only received an eviction notice…
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/sep/07/local/me-nuns7
“the LA Three Days of Darkness… er um… Religious Education Congress”.
o thank you,Father. I had to laugh! But sadly it is true.
Laughing helps de- stress from the distress.
“What I find most worrisome is the deep and passionate split in the American Church today. If one goes to the NCR article above and reads the comments and compares these to the ones found in this and other orthodox Catholic blogs, one is struck about how deeply divided the Church is, perhaps mirroring the deep divison of modern Western society itself. Schism is a real possibility I fear, and I do not mean the SSPX. I think Abp Chaput is quite correct in pointing out the mess that has been made in Catholic catechetics over the past 40 years and we now see the fruits, or, rather, lack of them. Much of the division is the result of not understanding Catholic teaching. Let us pray even more fervently for the Holy Father.” coment by Ted
Everything you mentioned above is not only in the Church as a whole – it is in my Parish. I would guess that is everywhere. Please pray for all our Priests, Bishops,Cardinals, and the Holy Father. I think on Adoration and the Rosary can help us. That at learn our Faith.
Funny, in the aftermath of some teacher/student molestation cases I went through trainings insisting that we NEVER EVER touch students. This broke the hearts of some excellent, older, motherly teachers who hugged.
You’d think Card. Mahoney would know better.
Have you actually read the transcript of the chat? Some of the answers were acceptable. Some of the answers were on the dismissive side. Somebody asked if it was a sin to receive communion at a non-Catholic service. Cardinal Mahoney said you should not, which to me doesn’t answer the question if it is a sin or not. I shouldn’t wear flip-flops and daisy dukes to Mass either, but I don’t know if it is really sin…
heh
Father Z, that was funny on so many levels : )
“stand offish priest + spontaneous forced hug = punch in the face”
\”stand offish priest + spontaneous forced hug = punch in the face\”
ROFTL
Of course, hugging is a personal thing, and shouldn’t be forced on anyone. But, a liberal thing?
I guess, then, Fr. Z and anyone else celebrating the EF is a liberal when, during a Solemn High Mass, he gives the Sign of Peace to another . . . which, by the way, is a stylized form of hug and kiss, doncha know.
Byzantine Catholics and Orthodox recently experienced this custom on “Forgiveness Sunday” when they exchanged peace with their parish priest, both hugging him and kissing his cheek (and, vice-versa).
But, we Byzantines are just following the counsel of that other hoary-headed “liberal,” St. Paul: “Greet all the brothers with a holy kiss” (1 Thess 5:26). And, of course that standoffish Jesus: “Taking a child . . . and putting His arms around it He said . . . ” (Mk. 9:36).
So, I’m with you, Your Eminence: Hug Fr. Sour Puss until he pops a button on his dry-cleaned, French-cuffed cassock.
Ee-gads! Liberals hugging!
http://www.catholicreview.org/subpages/storyworldnew-new.aspx?action=5688
Maybe the priests wouldn’t be so stiff and stand-offish if someone offered them a stiff drink. My advice would be to invite him out for a pint at the local pub (not alone, of course, if you’re a single woman). I know the Roman Ritual has a blessing for beer…
Or, alternatively, you could bake him a pie. That also works.
I hope Ken Fisher of Concerned Roman Catholics of America sees that “Three Days of Darkness” line, Father. He’s out there picketing Mahony’s hug-fest every year.
Father, if the good Archbishop ever went through VIRTUS training, he would know that hugs are the one thing that you DON’T DO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Mother of 10 dying of cancer? Sorry. Let the children come to me? Not today. Now back off before I get sued little boy. Does LA use VIRTUS?
Chris M said: “2011 can’t come soon enough. Pray for the successor to the Archbishop. He’ll need it!!”
)(
You got that right, Chris. Carpe MMXI. Thank the Lord there is a light at the end of this Mahony Tunnel. I’m asking everyone to pray for us and with us though that that light doesn’t turn out to be the train!
Pray God our Holy Father Benedict XVI lives beyond 2011 to appoint us a shepherd who will truly bring grace and truth to this L.A. Church. The new bishop is going to need a lot of solvents and high-pressure hoses to clean up the morass this one will be leaving behind.
Mahony is already holding meetings with his clergy to say good-bye. Takes two years to do that? Perhaps he is anticipating going to jail with this new Federal Grand Jury probe of himself. ??
Yes, LA does use VIRTUS. I think they were one of the first to use it and the head-hauncho of VIRTUS(joan Vienna) resides at the Cathedral.
I was at “The Three Days of Darkness Congress” this weekend and I have video footage of it. The closing mass was.. well… I have no kind words to describe it. The liturgical abuses at it were at an all time high with lay liturgical dancers incensing the altarand people walking up stairs with glass goblets filled with the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ one sister actually spilled on the stairs she tried wipping our the Precious Blood but got flustered and kept moving. Yes, I witnessed this on video and will be sending Cardinal Mahony the video of this with a few choice words. Cardnial Mahony’s homily was all about himself being driven out into the desert because of the Federal Grand Jury after him because of sex abuse scandals in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Some of the speakers I heard one in particular Dr.Greer Gordon who happily invites an investigation in researching some claimed documents in the Vatican Library archives, by a guy named Boswell, who wrote a book, that The Church blessed same sex unions. She was promoting monagamous same sex unions. Another speaker Sr. Barbra Fiand promoted shamanism and says we all are stardust same as animmals and plants and she poo pooed Indulgences. All of this was recorded. After what I endured at this congress I don’t think Cardinal Mahony is going to have a change of heart towards the Triditine Mass any time soon, because he can’t even do the ordinary form of The Mass right. Before anyone here gets upset with me especially priests, well we lay people are at your mercy for The Sacraments and I want them done according to the Rubrics and I want the Church’s Teachings not some shaman same sex union loving teachings who ridicule The Holy Father and make a circus out of The Holy Mass. How many more people are going to be led astray with these false teachings and liturgical abuses. Is there someone out there that can get this info that I will have compiled to the proper authorities in The Vatican who will let it be known to the Holy Father of what is happening in one of the largest dioceses in The world?
Yes the archdiocese does VIRTUS program. One the talks I attended was presented by Dr.Tom Beaudoin along with an open homosexual man and woman with two parents of homosexual children. The mother on the panel who leads a group of parents of homosexuals at her parish in southern California said she teaches the Virtus program at her parish. She was very proud of this program. Also during this panel discussion the panel promoted same sex unions and ridiculed the Church Teachings. The father on the panel ridiculed Bishop Soto’s speech given at The Queen Mary conference on homosexuals. This father said that The bishop was just reading a Vatican document and that he should of been supporting the homosexual movement. The female open homosexual on the panel said that she and her partner were god parents for her nieces baptism. This same woman got mad at an attendee of this talk, she wanted this person and everyone to vocally support same sex unions. The male open homosexual young man said he was encouraged by Sr.Edith Pendergrast to give his story. This young man also ridiculed The Churchs Teaching. Sr. Edith Pendergrast is the main person putting on this Congress every year. This panel disscussion was not recorded but said they wanted it recorded so they can reach people in their parishes to support the homosexual movement. They all claimed it is a civil rights movement!
When the good Cardinal retires can the Cathedral go with him ?
I’m sure there are other attorneys following this blog who will chime in that civil union or homosexual marriage is not a “civil rights issue” at all. Each state affords specific privileges to marriages (or, euphemistically, “unions”) it recognizes as lawful. Secular recognition of a marriage/union is no more a civil rights matter than is getting a driver’s license. We in the Colonies do not have a constitutional right to drive; nor do we have a constitutional right to have the State legitimize our unions. Those in favor of legal recognition of these relationships simply dress up the issue in civil rights rhetoric to cloak their agenda in the humanist mythology of the sixties. Probably no surprise there, come to think of it.
Please let’s not forget Papa’s February prayer intention, and let’s pray for all priests: that they submit to the Holy Spirit.
Every year the REC has the same abuses. I saw the pictures on The Hermeneutics of Continuity blog. The young girls with the bowls of incense are probably from my old Alma Mater, Mt. St. Mary’s College. I saw a video last year of a couple of Masses from the College with the same sort of abomination – and more. It was even mentioned that some of the young ladies had participated in liturgical dance at the REC. God help us.
When Bishop Soto gave his address on the Queen Mary he took a lot of verbal abuse. He also was inundated with mail from grateful, faithful Catholics who applauded his courage. He spoke truth to deaf ears.
LOL
Did I hear it right that there will be no hugs for Bishop Williamson from Cardinal Mahony? Would it be overly cheeky for me to make for H.E. a “Have You Hugged A Holocaust Denier Today?” t-shirt?
I think “more hugs” are what have caused scandal in his diocese in the first place!