From a reader:
A group at my parish is planning on approaching our pastor to request Mass in the Extraordinary Form. I would like to be prepared to answer his questions about the “mechanics” of putting on this Mass: training the altar servers; providing for the expense of additional altar “equipment” that the parish may need, such as patens, bells, etc. The most important question: what do we need to do about placement of the tabernacle? Ours is off to one side on a side altar in the sanctuary, not on the main central altar. I have not been able to find an answer to this question on-line. Thank you for your help.
I applaud your desire to request Holy Mass in the Extraordinary Form.
The Supreme Pontiff’s Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum says (my translation):
Art. 5, § 1. In parishes, where there is stably present a group of the faithful attached to the previous liturgical tradition, let the pastor willingly receive their petitions that Mass be celebrated according to the Rite of the Missale Romanum issued in 1962. Let him see to it that the good of these faithful be harmoniously brought into accord with the ordinary pastoral care of the parish, under the governance of the Bishop according to canon 392, by avoiding discord and by fostering the unity of the whole Church.
I think your answer to any questions from the pastor about the “mechanics” must be this:
Father, don’t worry about a thing. We will do everything. We will set up for every Mass. We will train the servers, though if you would pop in once in a while that would be great! We will form the schola cantorum and we will pay from our pockets any musicians or singers we need. We will purchase for you right away a beautiful edition of the Missale Romanum: just pick the one you desire (Fr. Z reviewed two great editions here). We will take care of printing any sheets people in the pews might need. We will do all the scheduling for the lay people who will be involved. We will unlock and lock the church and clean it up. Perhaps you, Father, could suggest the names of a few priests we can contact on your behalf if you need a substitute. We will, when necessary, provide him some transportation if he desires and also pay his stipend. If you, Father, need any training materials, just say the word and we will order everything for you immediately. We will also take care of taking up the collection during Mass and making sure you get it right away. Is there anything else you can think of, Father, that we can do to make this easy for you? Do you want some Roman-style vestments? Just tell us the colors. Do you have a biretta? We will get you one right away. What is your hat size? Don’t know? I have a tape measure in my pocket. Would you like a new cassock? Do we need sacred vessels? We can sit with a catalog and you can indicate which you will prefer for these Masses. We would also be happy to pay to have the whole sanctuary tidied up. We would be pleased to pay to get rid of the carpet and return the main altar to its prominence by removing the free-standing altar and putting the tabernacle back in the center. No, Father! Really, we mean that. You chuckle, but just say the word. We will handle anything you point us at! We will make due with the tabernacle to the side… until you are ready to move it. Then we will pay for it. Furthermore, after Mass the servers will kneel by the tabernacle when everything is put in its place and say a prayer for you, our pastor, and the bishop.
There. That should do it.
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There ya go.
We always said back when I was trying cases . . . you anticipate any objections the jury may have, you meet them head-on, and then you show them a pleasant, attractive door to go through in order to reach a verdict.
You’d make a great litigator, Father! (I mean that as a compliment. The best of them are very good men indeed.)
But Father, but Father… Isn’t this letting some bishops and priests off the hook? Wasn’t it they who ripped out (without consultation of course) the beautiful side altars, removed the tabernacles, threw out the altar rails, dumped the Missals, threw out the vestments…. Surely it’s their mess, and they should be the ones to fix it and to pay for it? Now we have to jump through a million and one hoops to get one EF Mass?
Pigeon Street: Surely it’s their mess, and they should be the ones to fix it and to pay for it?
It has ever been so. Priests and bishops screw things up. Lay people pay for it. That is the reality of this Church of ours.
Want the old Mass? Be realistic and provide the elbow grease and the money.
Now we have to jump through a million and one hoops to get one EF Mass?
Yes. In short. Yes.
Want it? Start jumping.
“There. That should do it.”
Not always— I had requested an EF requiem for my beloved mother when she passed away a year ago — priest from near by parish was ready willing and able to come to offer the EF funeral,organist was already in hand with his schola , the local una voce was to provide very well trained altar boys, the black requiem vestments as well as the pall, altar cards and missal …
The pastor knew this and was still dead set against having “that” mass in his church. I was told to go else where , which I did, a fine pastor of a parish about 12miles away said ok and I had my moms beautiful requiem funeral there.
Ef-lover: You missed the point. And your situation may not be the situation of the person who asked the question.
Excellent Father. Permit me to add just one thing to the list: “we will deal with the efforts of the anti TLM crowd (which includes such things as hiding the incense, bells, etc.) in a non confrontational way”
Oh no – exchief, I’m now imagining a clown cover for the bells.
From my experience, Father Z, you nailed it exactly, right down to the ever-present tape measure in your front pocket for instant measurement of anything needed—or in your wife’s purse, as in my case—and a catalog in your back pocket to order it from.
Of course, your list of things needed was merely illustrative, with no intent to specify everything possibly needed. [That’s it exactly. This was meant to show the attitude, willingness to do everything, anything it takes, and to pay for it. Let the priest know this isn’t going to create a great deal more work for him. Take away the reasons to say “no” (which is contrary to the Motu Proprio but in reality possible) or drag his feet.] For instance, the ordinary parish will not ordinarily have on hand the altar cloths, beeswax candles and six candlesticks, various altar furnishings (altar cards, missal stands, etc.). cassocks and surplices for the altar boys, etc., that are appropriate for an EF Mass, like even an entrance bell to ring for the beginning of Mass. Don’t expect the pastor to know what’s needed; part of your job is to anticipate every need and meet it in advance. (Or, realistically, just in time as necessary.)
And you don’t want to ask the pastor for names of suitable TLM celebrants; you provide those yourself, already having solicited willing candidates and arranged for their TLM training as needed. [Good, cautionary point. I stand corrected.]
All of this requires some fairly generous pockets, but nowhere near as deep as those that built the beautiful churches—many of our forefathers having mortgaged their own homes to provide the wherewithal—still around that simply cry out for the TLM for which they were built in the first place.
But the bottom line is that you ask the pastor for only one thing: Just one little word …. YES!
Richard T
In our parish the Pastor (a GREAT Priest) learned to say Mass in the OF and about 3 months ago began offering it as an extra Mass on Sunday (high Mass) and on M W F at noon (low Mass). It is the only Latiin Mass offered within hundreds of miles. It had absolutely no negative impact on those who prefer the NO as all of the Latin Masses are additional ones not substitutes for.
Thus far: Chalice hidden; chains on the incenser intentionally tangled and knotted, “NO choir practice suddenly re-scheduled for the hour just prior to the Sunday OFMass; oil in the candles not being filled (that one we will fix by purchasing beeswax candles for OF use) and the list goes on.
When the other server and I arrive an hour before the Sunday OF to set up it is always in wonderment of what we will find.
Fr. Z. THANK YOU x 1,000,000 for hitting the Million Dollar question with regard to the TLM. This has to be what many of us were waiting for all this time from such an expert as you.
On the other hand…to paraphrase Yoda…”either Do or not. there is no trying”.
Local parish (boy, Fr. Z., I would love to be able on behalf of the good pastor to be able to pay your stipend for a week’s mission in Yardville NJ…) pastor, a good and holy priest, takes the line that ‘if the people want it, they have to make it happen.” And they have.
3PM Sunday EF filled. Every week, by one of the pastoral associates. The pastor’s celebrating ad orientem during the week (as did the Fransciscan priests who’re part of Fr. Groeschel’s order who assisted during Holy Week last year…) and discouraging manual reception of the Eucharist. Oh, by the way, feel free to kneel and get a thankful nod from him as he distributes communion on your tongue. Ripped out the carpeting in the Sanctuary and replaced it with marble. I understand he’s also slowly pushing the altar back (since it close to the edge of the predilla…and I’m thinking eventually it will somehow make its way back up those three steps to the reredos where it belongs.
Why? Because, even in this day and age, THE PARISHONERS who ask for it get the nod and admonition: “You want it? I’ll support you. You set it up. You drum up the support.” Guess who paid for the antique altar cards to replace the ones they were using that were color laser printouts mounted on cardboard? Yup.
I’m thinking that it is not necessarily because they might not want to (although, these are men subject to the same petty prejudices and ego problems of us all…)…but along with all the other myriad things they have to do, sometimes it IS up to us to make it happen. Not discounting the aging 60s malformed radical priest who’s just going through the motion, that is certainly a reality.
But, I’m willing to bet a case of coalition missals for the EF, that if you were to take the good Fr. Z’s advice, even most of it, and go in with that attitude, you’d be surprised more often than not.
I’ve seen it.
Perhaps some great religious good store, such as Leaflet Missal Company in St. Paul, should put together an “Extraordinary Form” catalog. This could include recommendations for groups that are starting out, with less expensive items, but giving a complete list of what you need. They could make an “EF Kit”, containing the whole shooting match that could be useful for starting out, at a lower price.
“Just starting out? This is what experience says you will need! Use our handy checklist and we will ship everything and have it to you by Sunday! (Priest’s cassocks may require more time).”
ExChief,
See if you can sell your sacristan on a separate cabinet “just to keep things out of the way”, then get one with a GOOD lock. And keep the keys with three trustworthy people.
Can’t do anything about the other shenanigans, but at least that will stop the thievery and vandalism.
Every stable community should be able to set up a Una Voce group and raise money for the things needed. I have known lay people pay for airplane tickets for an fssp priest to come in for two years before the bishop gave the order a parish (not in our state). All the liturgical necessities should be paid for by the people who want the Mass, period, including paying for the priest’s gasoline money, if, as at our Mass, the priests are not local and have to drive in from the country, other towns, etc. At our EF, we take two collections. One is for the parish where we are allowed to have the Mass, and the other is for the expenses relating to the Mass, priests’ needs, etc.
By the way, in the pre-Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum days, we used to order the SSPX box of trad goodies for priests who wanted to learn the Mass. I wonder if this is still available under the circumstances? As late as 2007, we were ordering the box which included very nice Mass cards. The box was free.
Agree with everything said. The petitioners should provide as much as possible if the place has been stripped to such a degree (sad, no?).
I just have one comment. A little disagreement, perhaps: Although my personal preference is for the tabernacle to be front and center, it is certainly not a necessity for the celebration of an EF Mass. Actually, moving the Blessed Sacrament back and forth, and leaving a perhaps rather large tabernacle empty while a lesser (out of necessity, since it needs to be movable) one is used doesn’t seem to support the importance of the Reserved Sacrament which traditionalists rightly proclaim.
Tradmum
Indeed it is!
http://www.sspx.org/for_the_clergy.htm
One way to help expand the availability of the EF, is for those who attend a non local EF to return to their local parishes and begin to form groups to seek the EF at that local parish. I think many who are interested in the EF are already having their needs met at the specially established EF masses at particular designated parishes. If the stable groups return to their home parishes (or at least begin to be involved there), then that can help create the critical mass (no pun intended) to see EF masses offered in your standard NO parishes.
I like this attitude. If people go to the pastor and treat him as an obstacle, he will likely respond in kind. Treat him as a possible ally and he will have no reason to refuse. Most pastors like to make people in the parish happy as long as they don’t have to make others unhappy in the process. One last possible objection– “We’ll take a time when no other Mass is already scheduled, 7 AM, 2 PM, 8 PM Saturday evening, you name it– we won’t displace an existing Mass and expose you to complaints from other parishioners.” [A good point. The Mass schedule is like the third rail.]
Fr. Z,
Thats exactly what our group did in August of 2008. We finally got a Dominican low Mass because that is what the priest offered us. We cleared it with the local Pastor and the Bishop because the priest was from another Diocese. But yes, we got all the altar ware, missalettes, and paid the stipend and mileage for our Dominican. Been holding Masses for about two and a half years now on a monthly basis. It hasn’t been easy but we do it. We will perhaps be transitioning to the Tridentine Rite by spring. We think our Dominican is going to be transferred further away. But we have found two priests that are willing to celebrate Mass on a more frequent basis. All obstacles have been cleared.
With the work load of priests I’ve met (these are the older priests), most don’t have the time (or skills) to learn a far more complex form of mass. Perhaps I’ve just been meeting the less than motivated/educated ones, but unless you’re willing to send your priest back to seminary you might be out of luck. For those who might want to try starting the EF, realize you might be starting real bare bones with your priest. Most priests I’ve met and talked to don’t even know how to *pronounce* Latin. [Booo hoooo! Booo hoooo! It’s so haaard! Tut! Tut! It’s all possible with grace, elbow grease and diplomacy. After that use the Bux Protocol.]
Please pray for us as we are in the slow process of trying to get one started down here in deep South Texas. The priest has agreed to it. We just have to find a place as his parish does not have communion rails. We decided against the Cathedral (which does) because of the sad reality of politics. However, there are three options, as these churches still have the marble altars, communion rails and are relatively unscathed. All we need to do is buy the 1962 Missal and get the vestments. The priest has his own biretta and cassock. He just needs to watch the videos again.
I forgot to add the most important detail: the priest KNOWS LATIN!!!!!
benedictgal, If you don’t have altar rails you can line up some kneelers and use those instead. I have seen this done at an EF Mass and it worked well.
Ben,
Thanks for the link to the SSPX box. What a resource! I just sent one off!
Also, the FSSP offers training kits and videos for new priests who want to learn and prepare to celebrate the old Mass:
http://www.fssptraining.org/resources.html
Benedictgal,
Don’t let the lack of Communion rail stop you from having the EF at your parish! ~20 years ago when our previous bishop approved the first indult Mass in our diocese, the parish that had the Mass had no Communion rail. Everyone who could knelt on the first step and everyone who couldn’t stood. It was not a big deal at all. The Newman Center at my university used a couple of two person kneelers, like Anne M mentions, for its OF Latin Mass and that works as well.
May I offer this?
I am a pastor. If a group came to me such as was described; indeed, without being nearly so generous in offering help…
I would say yes. Very gladly.
No such group has yet to come forward. You may say, oh but do they realize you are open to it? Well, upon the issuance of Summorum Pontificum, I preached at all six Masses about it and I pointedly said that I would respond generously as the pope requested. And folks here are well aware of many steps I’ve taken in the liturgy to make it more in line with the ancient tradition.
The thing is, if such a group did come to me, it would make it much easier to move further forward.
I’m in Piqua, Ohio. I’m the pastor. Where are you? [Hear that you Ohioans? Where are you?]
Fr. Fox: Thanks for that note.
Some smart people I speak with regularly, as well as the former President of the Pont. Comm. “Ecclesia Dei”, are of the opinion that pastors can offer TLM’s on the parish schedule even without there having been a request.
Furthermore, a “stable group” can be as few as three and the priest can be one of them.
Food for thought.
Of course schedule changes in a parish are delicate things. Everything should be done with a mind for the peace of the parish.
Father Z:
True, true. I realize I don’t have to wait for a group to come knocking. As it is, a couple of my employees have asked, so if it’s a question of being able to name someone requesting it, I can.
But you hit on it with your comment about “the peace of the parish.” And I share this so that folks reading this can appreciate something about how things can be in a parish–assuming that I, and my parishes, are not outliers.
I have lots of projects underway, and lots folks are advocating, in my two parishes. I have plenty to do, plenty of worthwhile things I wish I were doing better. And, to be blunt, I have more than enough battles.
And this involves a battle. Even relatively small changes in the liturgy, as well as ways of doing things more generally, spark protests. It’s not a question, as some may see it, of being willing to fight the fight; it’s a question of picking ones battles and trying not to fight too many at once, and having help in them.
And my message to folks who want to see the liturgy improve is that a sympathetic pastor needs active, vocal support and involvement of those who favor that direction. Silent support, waiting to see what will happen, is a poor strategy, because trust me, there are folks whose mindset is, “you can have my Glory and Praise hymnal when you pry it from my cold, dead hands,” who are already involved, who pastors rely on as collaborators for many, many things…
And in my judgment, one of the best arguments for making a move such as this, is to say, “look, even if you think this is terrible, there are a good number of folks interested, and we can draw folks in by doing it.” But it is much harder to make that argument when no one comes around. Yes, I can point to employees who are interested, but for reasons that should be obvious, I think that would be ill-advised.
So…I’m moving slowly. Help me, folks in the Greater Miami Valley, and we can move faster.
I have in my possession several altar cloths that I can ship just about anywhere. They were rescued by a friend of mine and I laundered and pressed them, measured them and wrote down the measurements, and they are awaiting new homes. I also have tabernacle veils (several sets) in all liturgical colors, rescued by the same friend. I’m pretty sure you can click through my user name here and get to my blog, (I have several click-throughs in my stats that came from here) so anyone who is interested could leave a comment there and we could go from there.
For years I’ve been trying to find other souls interested in the TLM so as to form a “stable group” to no awail. The problem is, we are out there but how do you find each other? Perhaps if the Mass is offered we’ll just show up.
“I’m in Piqua, Ohio. I’m the pastor. Where are you? [Hear that you Ohioans? Where are you?]”
Piqua is in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, about 25 miles north of Dayton, which has an FSSP parish recently erected, after being a mission (or something to that effect) for several years. Piqua is also just south of what is known as “The Land of the Cross-Tipped Churches,” a three-or-four county area dominated by small towns erected around high- steepled churches of great historic value. While a Traditional Mass is already within driving distance, a foray of the TLM into this historic region would be … well, historic.
Piqua is about an hour and a half north of Cincinnati proper, so that would be too far for the majority of the archdiocese to get to on a regular basis… But knowing Fr. Fox I’m sure he would do exactly as he says.
Father Z: Some smart people I speak with regularly, as well as the former President of the Pont. Comm. “Ecclesia Dei”, are of the opinion that pastors can offer TLM’s on the parish schedule even without there having been a request.
Well, maybe I’m just not “smart” enough to understand the deeper nuances here. But if there are two juridical forms of the Roman Mass, why could not a pastor simply schedule whichever form he feels appropriate at a given time for his parish?
In other words, why does the question of what he “can offer” even come up?
raising3saints, would you be interested in discussing the altar cloths and tabernacle veils with me? I’m not sure how to contact you on your blog, so I posted it here.
The pastor knew this and was still dead set against having “that” mass in his church. I was told to go else where , which I did, a fine pastor of a parish about 12miles away said ok and I had my moms beautiful requiem funeral there.
If you were make a generous donation to the parish where you had your mother’s funeral, accompanied by a letter to the pastor indicating that the donation was in acknowledgement of his generosity in offering his parish for your mother’s funeral, I suppose it would be mean-spirited to cc the letter to the pastor who wouldn’t let you have the funeral at his parish. But it’s nice to contemplate.
***
Please pray for us as we are in the slow process of trying to get one started down here in deep South Texas.
I will keep you in my prayers. Please pray for us in central Texas. For the past few years we had a TLM about twice a month on average; the pastor was very eager to do it for us. But last summer, just as he was getting ready to make it weekly, he was tranferred. Our associate pastor was also tranferred. We have a new pastor, and he has no objection to our continuing to have the TLM; but he doesn’t know how to say it, and since we are down from two priests to one, he is by himself and has a very full plate. We have been unsuccessful in finding another priest to say the Mass for us on anything other than an occasional basis. Supposedly we will be getting a new associate at some point, and we have petitioned the bishop to take our TLM needs into consideration when appointing the new associate. We have all the vestments and everything else required, and we always make sure to clean and lock the church afterwards on occasions when we do have Mass.
Last week a visiting priest said a special High Mass for us, and we had over 200 people. The pastor stopped by, so he saw how large the congregation was. (To be honest, we would usually get about 60-70 at an average Sunday TLM; but still.) So he knows that we have a decent-sized group willing to support it.
Most priests I’ve met and talked to don’t even know how to *pronounce* Latin.
We had a former associate pastor at our parish who was willing to learn and support the TLM, and not only did he not know Latin, but he is dyslexic. It’s hard enough trying to read and pronounce a language you don’t understand; but add dyslexia on top of that! And yet he was willing to make the effort.
Ohioans in the Akron area have access to a EF at St. Sebastian. The pastor–Fr. Valencheck, who has been highlighted on WDPRS– supported the move from a parish that was closing as part of the diocese’s long term reorganization of parishes. Fr. V does not celebrate the EF(yet), but the parochial vicar does. There was also a very vocal minority against welcoming these new parishioners and having an EF at our parish. Fr. V listened to the concerns (the usual arguments against the EF), explained the position of the Church, and we now have EF every Sunday at 1:00 PM.
A talented local chorale are going to perform Palestrina’s “Pope Marcellus Mass” at my parish next month, and they have enlisted the services of a diocesan priest to celebrate the Tridentine liturgy so that the performance will actually be in the context of the Mass.
While our pastor has no fondness at all for anything that smacks of “high church”, including celebrations according to the 1962 Missal, he has no objection to this at all and was quick to give permission once he learned that the visiting celebrant was going to provide everything necessary, himself, and that everything would be put back the way it was before.
So, yes, taking the burden of making the arrangements off the pastor, entirely, is a clever strategy to get him to agree to hosting the celebration of a Tridentine liturgy. In this case, he doesn’t even need to show up (nor will he), because his sacristan (Hi!) will take care of all the setting up, cleaning-up, and locking-up.
Now, that’s the once-in-a-blue-moon Tridentine liturgy taken care of. But how does one go about asking his pastor to celebrate all parish Masses in a traditionally Catholic way, especially when the pastor has a hugely divergent notion with respect to what that means?
You think its tough to get modern priests to permit a Tridentine Mass? Wrap your mind around the challenge of getting them to celebrate the “new” Mass each Sunday (every time)…in the old way. Now there’s a challenge.
Tridentine rite advocates, you have a challenge, but I submit that yours is a far less daunting challenge that that of those who want ALL masses…not just Tridentine ones…to be celebrated traditionally. It’s like walking on egg shells with the modern day clergy to even broach the subject, so far are their minds from the notion that “old school” liturgical solemnity has any relevance in the contemporary Church.
Centristian: It’s like walking on egg shells with the modern day clergy to even broach the subject, so far are their minds from the notion that “old school” liturgical solemnity has any relevance in the contemporary Church.
Actually, in my observation it’s not “modern day clergy” but older ones that are the problem. Every seminarian I know looks forward to celebrating the TLM, and they tell me that the majority of their fellows in the seminary feel the same way. Every priest I know ordained in the past decade, and virtually all of those ordained in the 1990’s, is as faithful and orthodox, doctrinally and liturgically, as I might wish. So lots of help is on the way, if we can just hold out long enough. But even now, most every OF Mass I attend (with some selectivity) is celebrated as carefully and properly as the EF Masses I attend.
Henry:
But even now, most every OF Mass I attend (with some selectivity) is celebrated as carefully and properly as the EF Masses I attend.
Maybe you just don’t know how fortunate you are.
“I’m in Piqua, Ohio. I’m the pastor. Where are you?”
VERY interesting. Which church?
I only ask because..I dated a woman from there just a few years ago. The second time I went there, the priest requested votes from parishioners regarding plans for the building’s interior redecoration.
Our relationship didn’t ultimately work out, but I remember visiting there.
(OK, I’m done reminiscing….)
Jflare:
I’m pastor of both parishes in Piqua, St. Mary and St. Boniface. The interior of St. Mary was significantly redone around 2002–before my time, and and St. Boniface is currently getting major attention. The current plan for St. Boniface was voted on, after Mass, just last April.
Ohioans in the Akron area have access to a EF at St. Sebastian.
I’ll second the recommendation of St. Sebastian’s in Akron. I grew up in St. Sebastian’s parish in the 70s and 80s (and, FWIW, the immediate previous pastor, Fr. Karg, is my cousin). Fr. Valenchek, the current pastor, has been very welcoming to the TLM, and my parents frequently attend. I go with them when I am visiting during holidays. The church itself doesn’t “look” very traditional — it was built it the early 60s, so it is *just* preconciliar and to a certain extent has that 1950s Catholic “look”. But the sanctuary is large enough that the high altar, with the tabernacle, has been retained (the NO altar were merely placed some distance in front of it), as has the Communion rail. From what I can see, attendance seems to be very solid and growing. And Confessions are generally heard immediately before Mass.
Ohioans in the Akron area have access to a EF at St. Sebastian.
I’ll second the recommendation of St. Sebastian’s in Akron. I grew up in St. Sebastian’s parish in the 70s and 80s (and, FWIW, the immediate previous pastor, Fr. Karg, is my cousin). Fr. Valenchek, the current pastor, has been very welcoming to the TLM, and my parents frequently attend. I go with them when I am visiting during holidays. The church itself doesn’t “look” very traditional — it was built it the early 60s, so it is *just* preconciliar and to a certain extent has that 1950s Catholic “look”. But the sanctuary is large enough that the high altar, with the tabernacle, has been retained (the NO altar were merely placed some distance in front of it), as has the Communion rail. From what I can see, attendance seems to be very solid and growing. And Confessions are generally heard immediately before Mass.
(Sorry for the double post! Internet connection problems.)
I’m the original poster of the question. Thank you, Father Z., for your reply. I was very concerned about the tabernacle placement, and that is a huge relief. Also, thank you to all the helpful comments on this blog. We are just getting started with this project, and hopefully it will come to fruition. I know that our choir director will be all in favor of helping with the music. I think our pastor will be receptive so long as we don’t add to his work load. He’s pretty much a “As long as I don’t have to do the work it’s okay with me” kind of guy. And we have a priest in the area who regularly says Mass on Sunday at the parish who, I think, will be very receptive to officiating. I will keep you posted, and again, thank you all for the input.
BTW, I am in the LA Archdiocese, soon-to-not-be “Mahonyland.” 25 days and counting. Can’t wait for that first Sunday liturgy when we pray for our new bishop, Jose.
raising3saints, I struck out contacting you through your blog. Could you e-mail me at dcannon@nctc.com? I am very interested in your altar cloths, but don’t want to hi-jack this thread.
I know of a case in which some parishioners gave the priest a cheque for the expenses of getting training and equipment for saying the extraordinary form. He is a youngish priest who wanted to do this so they did not need to more than that.
Dear Centristian,
You have my sincere sympathy for your predicament. Please don’t think my comments are meant to aggravate ….
IMHO the problem is about the fundamental contradiction between the NOM on the one hand vs. Catholic tradition and reverence on the other. I think this is why the HF wants to “reform the reform” because the more NOM, the less traditional/reverent.
(I believe it follows that the HF’s plan can’t be the solution – as long as there will remain any vestige of the NOM in Catholic worship, there will remain the revolution and associated irreverence. Or in your terms, to celebrate all parish [Latin-rite] Masses in a traditionally Catholic way Mass, they would need to be TLMs]
God bless
Paul
Can anyone recommend where I can find a list of all items/materials needed for a parish to begin offering Mass in the EF? I would like to be prepared with an idea of what’s needed and what the cost will be when I approach my pastor. The FSSP and SSPX kits are a start but I am looking for a more comprehensive list.
Thank you in advance!
Another recommendation for Latin Mass in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati:
St. Remy, Russia, Ohio – Latin Mass most Fridays, 7:30pm (call to confirm):
http://www.stremychurch.com/schedules.htm
The reverence, joy and devotion of the parishioners, the altar boys, the pastor – it is truly breathtaking. A slice of heaven on earth.
Wow, I just did a quick search after posting and found this: How to Stock a Parish Sacristy (both Ordinary and Extraordinary Form).
Hope this helps, but I am also open to more suggestions.
And I believe that Ohio town is pronounced “Rooshie”.
The resources on the Sancta Missa website are what you need!
http://www.sanctamissa.org
And audio clips (and wording) for practising that Latin
http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/tutorial
Father Fox and Father Z,
I’m not in the Dayton region, but I’ve looked at the area a couple of different times in the past year thinking about relocating at some point, and joined various lists and things related to Holy Family and the FSSP in Dayton. I would humbly suggest that someone make contact with the folks down in Dayton, or Father Wojdelski FSSP, and find out who might be coming down from the Piqua area to Mass at Holy Family. It would be easier to find a couple of people at a TLM parish that can help organize and coordinate parishioners in the Piqua area to help further the cause of the TLM and show Abp. Schnurr the fidelity, charity and equanimity that traditional Catholics have for one another in Ohio.
My two cents…
– No Rancor