Summorum Pontificum. It won’t be stopped.

Here is some news to cheer you in these otherwise chaotic and troubling times.

From HPR:

Seven Years after “Summorum Pontificum”: Nearly 500 North American Churches Offer the Traditional Latin Mass

For those Catholics who are seeking even more regular access to the Traditional Latin Mass, sacraments, and accompanying parish and liturgical life, there are 75 parish locations that offer this access daily [Such as that perfectly located, spiritual oasis Holy Innocents in Manhattan] … the ideal and ultimate goal for Catholics who desire to truly live out the liturgical life of the Church in its fullness.

The upcoming seventh anniversary of the implementation date of Summorum Pontificum has been noted with nary a whisper from likely traditional-minded media outlets and blogs. [Maybe we aren’t talking about it much – yet – because it will be, after all, in September?] I suppose with both the mainstream and Catholic media’s feeding frenzy on covering Pope Francis’ every waking moment, movement, and spoken word, this shouldn’t be a surprise.
Has it really been seven years since that momentous date that provided juridical recourse to Catholic laymen directly with their parish priest to provide access to the Traditional Latin Mass and sacraments? What kind of results have we seen in the United States (including Puerto Rico) and Canada in dioceses and parishes offering the Traditional Latin Mass?
The Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei, keeps a comprehensive list of these locations, and their data are used for this story. At last count, in 191 dioceses in North America, there are about 485 parishes that offer the Traditional Latin Mass with some frequency (monthly, twice-per-month, or weekly). There are 335 parish locations that offer a weekly Traditional Latin Mass to Catholics albeit, more often than not, in afternoon or evening time slots. But still, 335 weekly offerings in 191 total North American dioceses seem to be a positive commentary on the fruits of Pope Benedict’s motu proprio.
For those Catholics who are seeking even more regular access to the Traditional Latin Mass, sacraments, and accompanying parish and liturgical life, there are 75 parish locations that offer this access daily (or close to daily, sometimes with the summer being an exception, for instance). This is, of course, the ideal and ultimate goal for Catholics who desire to truly live out the liturgical life of the Church in its fullness. And of those 75 parish locations, a total of 38 are provided for by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP), and another 13 by the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest (ICR).
This brings us to the heart of this article. That leaves a mere 24 diocesan, or other, venues (such as St. John Cantius Canons in Chicago) where the Traditional Mass is regularly offered daily (again, noting some occasional exceptions).


This article will focus on a diocesan parish offering the Traditional Latin Mass in one of the most unlikely of places—what is often referred to as “the buckle of the Bible Belt”—Greenville, South Carolina (more broadly, the Greenville-Spartanburg-Easley-Anderson “Upstate” area). While Prince of Peace is a parish without the benefits of a personal parish served by a group of priests such as the FSSP or ICR, the parish’s evangelical liturgical approach is beginning to attract national and international attention.
Following is an interview with Rev. Christopher Smith, the pastoral administrator at Prince of Peace Catholic Church, which serves nearly 2,000 families in Taylors (Greenville), South Carolina. Not only is this parish attracting families seeking access to doctrinal and liturgical sanity in the wasteland of the postconciliar debacle, it is beginning to be recognized by even the non-Traditional Catholic audience as perhaps a beacon of the “New Evangelization” due to the number of converts and reverts it attracts, but with methods and techniques borrowed from the “Old Evangelization.” Of course, the apparent irony here will not be lost on longtime readers of The Remnant. Average daily Mass attendance (Monday through Saturday) hovers around 40 with weekly Sunday Mass attendance edging as high as 200-plus, but with regular attendance around 170.
Note that Prince of Peace also has a burgeoning school, a round-the-clock adoration chapel, and numerous other flourishing apostolates one would expect from a parish with parishioners on fire for the faith. Prince of Peace is also home to numerous processions on special feast days and adoration and benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.


Read the rest there.

I have been saying for decades, not years, that the real impact of the older form of the Roman Rite will be felt across the whole breadth of the Church when diocesan priests take it up and implement it in parishes.

As much as I like and appreciate the good work of groups such as the FSSP and the ICK, they are specialists, in a sense.  Diocesan priests – let’s call them “garden variety” priests although so many of them are also exceptional – make the greatest impact simply because they are far greater in number, they have parishes, and they are more stable within a region.  Would that they were also more stable in assignments.  This 6 year thing… well… don’t get me started.

The good news is this: everywhere I go, the large majority of young priests and seminarians I meet tell me that there is great interest in the traditional forms amongst their ranks.  Seminarians, especially, have related that almost all their classmates are now at least open to the learning how to use the Missal of St. John XXIII.

As a matter of fact, the men who are well along in their formation, or actually preparing to be ordained would, if they could, say their 1st Mass in the traditional Roman Rite.

This will spook liberals something fierce.   I know of a bishop who actually quizzes deacons about what form of Mass they will use for their 1st Mass: the implication being that it had better not be a TLM and that their ordination may depend on it.  Nice, huh?

You know, while I would rather have a somewhat smoother path in the growth and implementation of Summorum Pontificum, maybe it is – in the large scheme of things – good that we can from time to time report that some bishop or even curial official actively oppresses people who want the traditional forms.  Yes, it hurts.  Yes, it is unjust.  Yes, we wish it weren’t so.  BUT… in doing that they only serve to toughen up those who will, in the end, undo their liberal catholic agenda.

Go ahead and tell seminarians that they can’t attend the old Mass anywhere.  Go ahead and threaten them.  All you are doing is making them want it even more.  Deny them the chance to learn the older Mass in classes in the seminary, will you?  Fine, they will learn it in their rooms, with the help of young priests who are already using it.  Bully them all you want.  It won’t work.  They are the maquis and you can’t stop them.

It is possible to get mired in all the bad news or in the news about strange and controversial things that this or that highly ranked churchman might spout on a bad day.

What I have seen, and what encourages me, is that a lot of the younger guys, young priests and seminarians, are really not paying a whole lot of attention to goofy prelates and mixed messages.  These men do not lug around a lot of baggage.  They do not have the scars of the wars that some of us who are older have gained.  They really took notice of what Pope Benedict did and they took it on board.  In turn, this has a knock on effect among their peers.  As the newer seminarians come in, they will see that the older guys, whom they admire, are learning, and saying, the older Mass and they will want to do so too.

Do everything you can to encourage seminarians and young priests to learn and say the Extraordinary Form.  A good first step could be to make sure that they all have the Missale Romanum of St. John XXIII.  Be ready to send them off to a workshop.

¡Hagan lío!  This cannot be stopped.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, Be The Maquis, Benedict XVI, Hard-Identity Catholicism, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, Mail from priests, Our Catholic Identity, Priests and Priesthood, Seminarians and Seminaries, SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM, The future and our choices, Wherein Fr. Z Rants and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.


  1. Kathleen10 says:

    That is very encouraging! It seems like a good time to try to follow Padre Pio’s advice “Pray, hope, and don’t worry”. Boy is that hard advice.

  2. sw85 says:

    My own experience here in the Diocese of Austin sadly is not as optimistic. Large and fast-growing as it is, we have only three regularly-scheduled TLMs here (with rumors of an SSPX mission somewhere on the outskirts of Austin). The newly ordained priests tend to celebrate Mass at-least-semi-reverently but are indifferent or even mildly contemptuous of liturgical tradition and are very much, shall we say, company men.

  3. McCall1981 says:

    The (generally true) stereotype in my Diocese is that every parish has an old liberal Priest and a young “conservative” one. I wouldn’t say the younger ones are all stauch traditionalists by any means, but none of the young ones are hostile to the TLM, they either support it, or at worst just aren’t really interested.

    Maybe some good TLM related news: Apparently Pope Francis recently had a meeting with Bp. Fellay.

  4. Priam1184 says:

    I love that title Father: “The Missal of St. John XXIII.” If that doesn’t make the ‘spirit of Vatican 2’ crowd freak out then I don’t know what will. I think that I will adopt that as my own personal way of referring to the 1962 Missal from now on.

  5. ClavesCoelorum says:

    Triumph! :)

  6. Bressani56 says:

    The priest mentioned in that article, Fr. Christopher Smith, was recently pictured in an RotR Missal (St. Isaac Jogues Illuminated Missal) so apparently he’s open to both forms. Very encouraging to see young priests like that.

  7. MaryL says:

    Missale Romanum of St. John XXIII.
    Canonisation of the Traditional Mass.

  8. iPadre says:

    The Traditional Latin Mass is truly Extraordinary. Most priests who learn and celebrate it with some consistency begin to see a change in their priesthood. It make a difference.

    Last Sunday, we had a Solemn Pontifical High Mass at our cathedral. It was almost filled to capacity. Many had tears in their eyes. I had the privilege of serving as deacon of the Mass. Many have asked when there will be another. It was truly awesome in the fullest sense of the word.

  9. acardnal says:

    iPadre, thank you for learning and celebrating the EF Mass.

  10. No More Tambourines says:

    I remember in the early 2000s a vague feeling of dissatisfaction with the Mass. I had no experience of the older mass but I knew something wasn’t right. The parish I went to was very big on having children hold hands around the altar while the pastor consecrated the bread and wine. Then I started attending the extraordinary form mass. First at St. Agnes in New York and then at Holy Innocents (which sadly will be closed soon).

    What a difference! Thank god for Summorum Pontificum.

  11. kpoterack says:

    Thanks Fr. Z, this article made my day. In fact, I know Fr. Smith. He is a fine priest, and has his Doctorate in Theology from the University of Navarre. I am sure he will hate me for saying this but, being only 36 years old, I think he will make a good candidate for the episcopacy in about 10 years. (Just dropping a bug in the ear of any ‘bishop-makers’ who may read this blog!)

  12. James Joseph says:

    Encouraging article indeed!

    Tradition is an exercising and marching army. This is the saying that I form as the result of reading through Msgr. George Agius’ text on the same subject.

  13. I wish we had a way to measure the impact the availability of the extraordinary form has had on the quality of ordinary form Masses. That would actually be even more telling than the number of extraordinary form Masses. The Novus Ordo, as I have said often, must be reclaimed and not simply condemned in order to fix the Church, just as the Democratic Party must be reclaimed in order to fix American politics. Reverence and sobriety cannot be the preserve only of the extraordinary form.

  14. Joseph-Mary says:

    The priest at a neighboring parish offers the EF at noon on Sundays. I cannot always attend but today I did. He has been ordained for 4 years. He took it upon himself to learn the TLM while a seminarian. Deo Gratias! Today every pew was occupied to some extent. I even saw some folks who I know have been attending the SSPX on the outskirts of town. They did not want to go that direction but wished the TLM and so they are looking in and I hope they will continue at the parish. The EF is slowly growing. I did not count but it had to be over 100. And two college men served the Mass.

  15. LeeF says:

    That was an interesting comment regarding the FSSP being specialists, though Fr. called them “garden variety”. I was reminded of the cooperation between the Dominicans and Franciscans in the medieval period where the Dominicans would go around preaching missions as it were, while the Franciscans ran parishes. Perhaps the best use of the FSSP is not just to run parishes devoted to the TLM, but to seek to give missions at parishes. For example an OF parish might host a FSSP mission which concluded on Sunday with an extra Mass added to the schedule which of course would be the EF. Perhaps that would more easily allow both diocesan priests and the laity to get a “taste” of the EF. Of course it would require a pastor at least open to the idea of giving it a try.

  16. RafqasRoad says:

    This is heartening news. A few thoughts;

    A commenter has raised the question of flow-on effects between the EF and OF in parishes where both are offered. This information would be rather illuminating, I think.

    Another commenter has outlined a type of parish characterised by an older priest of the ‘hippy generation’ and a young priest who while perhaps not able to or seeking to offer the EF, is not hostile to it either – I am familiar with this pattern here.

    Yet another commenter has raised the example of a bishop quizzing ‘soon to be newly minted’ priests re the type of mass they wish to/will kick off their vocation with – in Typical Aussie Larykin fashion, if I were a priest asked that question, I’d simply smile and reply ‘Why, Bp 70’s guy, the Ordinariate Mass, of course’…

    Which raises several interesting points I wish to add.

    In places where the EF is (illegally) repressed etc., the AO in my view is a completely legitimate third option. It has the advantage of both beautiful reverence and no ‘language barrier’ (for your common old garden variety Aussie parish, especially rural parish, this matters). There are many from 50’s to 70’s with a tonne of baggage re the ‘old mass’ that will require the biological solution to deal with. Reason #2 for the AO. Thirdly, in a scattered, geographically broad Rural parish with only two out of the four priests who serve it on active duty due to age related health issues of other two said priests that limit their ability to move outside their own congregation (sad, but true; pray for Fr. R. please!!!!!) the last thing said two active priests can fit into their already ridiculously busy schedule (priests are human beings too, who need to sleep like the rest of us) is the EF. The AO is far more doable. I believe the AO is a beautiful mass in its own right, perfect for the Anglosphere, either as a bridge between what we have to what may be, God willing, or perfectly suited to legitimate, licit and valid, fully encapsulating ‘Save the Liturgy, save the world’. One more point, for an area with many UK expats, the AO will likely also function as a powerful tool of evangelism – for the non UK expats also – offering awesome reverence that all can tap into. I am surprised more do not recognize the power and scope of the AO – while we celebrate seven years of SP, remember the other amazing liturgical gift bestowed upon us by BXVI.


  17. Athelstan says:

    I know of a bishop who actually quizzes deacons about what form of Mass they will use for their 1st Mass: the implication being that it had better not be a TLM and that their ordination may depend on it.

    I’d be tempted to answer: “Why, the Mass of Vatican II, Your Excellency!”

    See if he’s sharp enough to figure it out.

  18. ncstevem says:

    My suspicion in regards to the TLM is similar to what’s happening with the religious orders affiliated with the LCWR vs the CMSWR. The LCWR orders are dying out while the CMSWR is growing.

    I think the TLM will continue to grow in the life of the Church because it is attracting young families who are having large families which results in more vocations to the priesthood and religious life.

  19. Vecchio di Londra says:

    God has answered my prayers for the priestly vocation of a friend. The matter had never been raised in any discussion we had. But it somehow seemed the right thing to pray for.
    I was overcome with joy when I heard that he will join a TLM priestly order quite soon. Please join me in my prayers for his vocation and ordination. Another high-quality worker for the vineyard.
    “Iubiláte Deo, omnis terra, allelúia.” (From today’s Sunday EF Introit).

  20. Gail F says:

    I am 50. I went to CCD classes and a very “post Vatican II” church as a child, then my family stopped going to church, and I came back many years later. The Vatican II struggles mean absolutely nothing to me. I am not negative about them, I am indifferent – although I see that they still cause a great deal of emotional distress in older people, whatever their preferences. But those distresses don’t touch me; I know almost nothing about them — and, because I am interested, that means most people my age and younger (who are not as interested) know even less. Younger people people, particularly seminarians, come at these issues from a whole new and non-emotional place. I just don’t see this being an issue for much longer.

    I have been both TLM and to really beautiful NO Masses in Latin. They’re both great. Today I went to my regular parish’s Mass… wish it had been in Latin, with some decent music. Oh well.

  21. Mike says:

    My home parish, which we shall call St. X’s, is a sad, petty case, though probably not atypical. After years of decreasing collections, demographic shift, and bickering between the peddlers of the specious “Spirit of Vatican II” and parishioners faithful to the Magisterium, the diocese threw up its hands. While still a diocesan parish, St. X’s is now in the hands of resident priests from a religious order that practices the NO reverently, most notably by insisting on sacral hymnody and tolerating the use of Latin for the Agnus Dei. This has twisted the knickers of the old guard, which is rumored to be plotting a musical coup once they are again able to seat a parish council (which idea evidently has not mustered enough steam to propel action).

    Number of vocations from St. X’s in recent memory: zero. The most likely source of vocations in this part of the county in my lifetime will likely be the diocesan TLM community a couple miles up the road, which is starting to pack in the big young families.

    I’m still active at St. X’s, but although I’m taking up the challenge of becoming an adult faith formation instructor, no sign is evident that swimming against the tide will produce a sudden burst of new workers for Christ’s vineyard. May the intercession of Our Blessed Mother and the prayers of Fr. Z’s faithful readers cause my words to be proved wrong!

  22. Jack in NH says:

    If I heard Father correctly in his remarks today before the monthly EF mass at St. Patrick’s (NH), one of the young men who was a server at the TLM has left the parish to enter into his religious studies.
    I’m guessing he will be on the EF like chrome on a bumper.
    Here’s hoping, anyway.

    (Hmmm… that ‘chrome’ remark kind of dates me, I think)

  23. Traductora says:

    Encouraging news! I am also thinking that this younger generation of priests may be feeling like priests again, and not bureaucrats in an NGO. The latter is a high burn-out job, which may explain some of the malaise that has gripped our clergy for so long.

    As fond as I am of Latin on a personal level, though, I wonder if it might not be possible to get more support if a vernacular form were available and permitted?? There were approved English translations for American and British English that were used occasionally prior to VII, particularly in universities but sometimes in parishes. While changes to the mass were made in the 1965 missal, it still was a vernacular translation of the Latin that was on the facing page, and could be said (IIRC) in either the vernacular or Latin.

    To me, the important thing is not the language, but the form and the calendar. One of the biggest and most disorienting disasters was the drastic changes made to the calendar. The changes made by VII were not devastating because of the language. A few people were upset when the language changed, but most people had been reading it in English in their missals anyway, so the language wasn’t the big shocker: it was the complete dismantling of the rite, the calendar, and the entire devotional world that surrounded them

    In any case, I suspect that these new priests’ experience with the old mass, either saying it or reading it, even in translation, is a door back into that time and I think they are entering into a territory that the modernists would like to seal off forever.

  24. Gratias says:

    What counts the most is to have an every-Sunday Latin Mass available. If less frequent one cannot develop the required servers, Scholas, and vestments required. Having 75 DAILY masses is simply amazing. The USA will be like the Irish monasteries that kept the Faith alive centuries ago. Next we should catechize Latin America where the traditional mass has been prohibited by the bishops for 50 years but the Faithful are still solid Catholics.

    Once you find a TLM in your area drive there as far as needed; the Lord will take into account the extra distance involved. At this stage what we need most is Faithful in attendance. If you come, donate until it hurts your pocket. The Jesuits are fond of saying that the end justifies the means. The end of saving the Catholic liturgy for future generations is a very noble one.

  25. jacobi says:


    I think you are right about diocesan priests being the solution.
    The traditional orders are growing fast, but from a small base. Diocesan priest numbers are tumbling.

    The Church has a major crisis on this side of the pond. Panicky reactions by bishops, consultation exercises and various schemes for parish groupings are becoming the norm.
    Yes, in England and Wales the Traditional Mass is growing rapidly, but the number of parishes with weekly Sunday Mass is still small.

    At a recent “consultation”, I was struck by the ongoing hostility that exists in one church which allows facilities to a visiting Traditional priest. The hostility is widespread, all on one side – the Novus Ordo side. What are matters of ancient Catholic tradition seem to be increasingly resented. It is as though we had two quite separate sects. Please note that I choose my words carefully.

    The Traditional orders provide an essential stable base for the preservation of Catholic liturgy and therefore of Catholic belief, but it will be 50 years+ before they will be a dominating factor. In the meantime, to prevent these two ”sects” drifting further apart the answer can only lie with the new young diocesan priests, whatever their number is, re-integrating the two forms of the Roman Rite back into parishes, and not with a Traditional Mass on Thursday afternoon at 3 pm but on Sunday at a suitable time.

    I’m sure they already exist, but what is needed are more and more informal “groupings “ – even if its in the local pub – amongst traditionally minded diocesan priests, to consult and cooperated.

  26. Pingback: Notions romaines | Progression de la messe traditionnelle en Amérique du Nord

  27. KateD says:

    The TLM should be offered every Sunday in each Catholic Church. This is kind of a ‘duh’, isn’t it? I mean can you imagine walking into an American Embassy somewhere in the world and finding that English was not spoken? Latin is the first language of the Church. Every Catholic priest should know Latin and be able to celebrate the Mass in Latin. These are brilliant men, hand picked by God, no less.

    The Vatican could put out an online course with Latin and Liturgican instruction. There must be a number of curriculae already available, or perhaps it would be more appropriate to develop it in house. At any rate, each diocese could then hold a seminar where each parish priest would offer the mass in Latin, over the course of a two or three day retreat. It could be done and implemented in a years time.

  28. Athelstan says:


    One of the biggest and most disorienting disasters was the drastic changes made to the calendar.

    No question about it.

    There’s been an almost total loss of the awareness of liturgical time in our faith lives, and that’s in no small part the result of the gutting of the calendar. Or as Fr. Cipolla recently put it: “One of the saddest and most deleterious effects of the changes in the structure and content of the Liturgical Calendar in the post-Conciliar reform is the lack of understanding of the sanctification of time by the feasts and fasts of the Church.”

  29. Mojoron says:

    We’re out here in our little town of 100 souls who need to travel 5 miles of country roads to go to Mass, which is offered only once a week on Saturday night by a priest who also attends to two other parishes that are 24 miles and 38 miles from our humble abode. Our music is a guitar, and sometimes a glorious banjo, sung by a woman who sings two octaves above middle C and chooses songs that sound like lullabies rather than Christian songship. (A capella is not an option here.) We are blessed with Extraordinary Ministers whose formal attire is tight fitting blue jeans with the boots with Cuban heels, brightly colored plaid shirts and sometimes with T-shirts advertizing the local State College. Acolytes? Nah, not here we don’t. I even offered to the priest my services since I have a cassock and surplus of my own, which I used in my last Parish as a member of the “KofC Death Squad” serving Masses of the Dead in our Parish with my fellow Knights.

    I grew up in the 1950’s, served many masses at 5 AM as an altar kid, knew all the Latin needed for the occasion by heart. We even had Benediction after each Mass. I would love nothing more than to see a Low Latin even at our parish. It ain’t going to happen…..never!

    My wife and I are going on a pilgrimage to Rome in October with the local ArchBishop and 80 other souls and one of my intentions is to commit to a conversation on the Liturgy with his Excellency, not spilling the beans, but to ask him what his liturgical thoughts are about local practices and using adult Acoloytes in particular. I know that our pastor has his hands tied with three far-flung parishes and has to do with the talents he has available, but jeans on the altar? Nope! T-shirts? Nope! Dressing the participants in appropriate attire? YES!

    I went to a graduation exercise in Lincoln, Nebraska a few years back and attended Sunday Mass and marveled at the practice of using male Acolytes dressed in cassock and surplus for Holy Masses. How great Thou Art!

    Fr. Z, I admire your zeal at using TLM, but you are very blessed to be attached to parishes that not only have the where-with-all to be able to live your dream of TLM’s, but here in the hinterlands where attending Mass is a FORTUNATE occasion, TLM’s are just a memory.

  30. Nathan says:

    Agreed, this is heartening. It is also borne out in the parishes where we have the TLM in my neighborhood (actually, using the plural in “parishes” is in and of itself heartening). The interest among young priests and seminarians is critical.

    In its practical application in diocesan parishes, this encouraging situation is providing a challenge (a challenge we are blessed to have!), at least from the perspective of providing the TLM for lots of families, especially with children. As I recall, here in the Arlington Diocese, we have a lot of Sunday/Holy Day TLMs, but most are scheduled at somewhat difficult times (usually either very early Sunday morning or, more likely, the ubiquitous 12:30pm).

    Now those of us who deeply love the TLM and understand its importance willingly make the sacrifices to support Holy Mass at those times, and we are there just about every week. It’s a lot more difficult, though, to convince neighbors with toddlers (12:30 is a really really bad time to deal with a 3 year old regardless of location until nap is over) or those who want to have their Sunday family time (a legitimate pursuit) to come to the TLMs.

    The dilemma is not, in my experience, due to pastors wanting to sideline the TLM or any hostility at all (after all, they are having the TLM in their parish). The problem is that it is very difficult to change the Mass schedule in a large suburban parish to begin with; to put a TLM at a family friendly time is exceptionally so.

    Perhaps that’s why, were the opportunity to present itself to support a FSSP or ICKSP parish locally, I would do so. I think the “specialists” could, if handled well, bring in the families that provide the altar boys and scholas to the TLM at times that a lot more people could support.

    How many dual TLM/Novus Ordo parishes out there have been successful at scheduling their Sunday TLM at family friendly times?

    In Christ,

  31. chantgirl says:

    Or, to go all Star Wars here, “If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”.

  32. Sonshine135 says:

    Deo Gratias! This is good news. I would love to see the day when 50% of Parishes offered the Mass in both forms. Maybe it will happen in the next 25 years. I will continue to offer it up.

  33. lucy says:

    We know a few seminarians from our diocese who are in the midst of their training. They report that most are open to TLM. One of them told me that he was told that if he didn’t stop kneeling to receive Our Lord on the tongue, it would be a reason for his dismissal from seminary. How sad for these young men that they have to choose to refrain from showing what they feel is the proper honor due Him just to keep out of trouble. Another told me he wants to wear the cassock all the time, but again, was told not to do that. I know things are changing and for that we thank God!

  34. Jerry says:

    re: Traductora – “One of the biggest and most disorienting disasters was the drastic changes made to the calendar.”

    Reportedly, even to the man responsible for promulgating them. The following was posted by Fr. Z in 2010:

    Take this for what it may be worth. Some years ago [Fr. Z] was told this story by an elderly, retired Papal Ceremoniere or a Master of Ceremonies who (according to him) was present at the event about to be recounted.

    You probably know that in the traditional Roman liturgical calendar the mighty feast of Pentecost had its own Octave. Pentecost was a grand affair indeed, liturgically speaking. In some places in the world such as Germany and Austria Pentecost Monday, Whit Monday as the English call it, was a reason to have a civil holiday, as well as a religious observance.

    The Monday after Pentecost in 1970 His Holiness Pope Paul VI rose bright and early and went to the chapel for Holy Mass. Instead of the red he expected, there were green vestments laid out for him.

    He queried the MC assigned that day, “What on earth are these for? This is the Octave of Pentecost! Where are the red vestments?”

    “Santità,” quoth the MC, “this is now Tempus ‘per annum’. It is green, now. The Octave of Pentecost is abolished.”

    “Green? That cannot be!”, said the Pope, “Who did that?”

    “Holiness, you did.”

    And Paul VI wept.

  35. Bea says:

    Athelstan says:
    11 May 2014 at 7:07 pm
    I know of a bishop who actually quizzes deacons about what form of Mass they will use for their 1st Mass: the implication being that it had better not be a TLM and that their ordination may depend on it.

    I’d be tempted to answer: “Why, the Mass of Vatican II, Your Excellency!”

    Great idea Athelstan
    The deacon could also say : “Why the Mass of St. Pope John XXIII, Your Excellency!”

    I don’t think the bishop could find fault with that one, either (If he figures that one out, either).
    (TLM 1962 Missal)

  36. Gratias says:

    If we want to keep the traditional Catholic liturgy we will have to prod the bishops into teaching seminarians Latin. Money is the best argument.

  37. oldsalt says:

    “..that perfectly located, spiritual oasis Holy Innocents in Manhattan.” Holy Innocents is truly a spiritual oasis! I was blessed to be there on Easter Sunday this year — the church was full! This church is a beacon for traditional Catholics in New York. It is also bears a name that should be of great value in the Church’s battle against the murder of the unborn. Unfortunately, it appears Cardinal Dolan plans to close this wonderful church. Were I the cynical and suspicious type, I might suspect the decision to close a church that (a) celebrates the Tridentine Mass daily and (b) memorializes, by its very existence, the fight against murder of the unborn is being driven by something other than finances. It is ironic that the same week that the news of the closing of Holy Innocents broke, Cardinal Burke made his statement urging that canon law be followed when making such decisions. Cardinal Burke mentioned the support of the laity of a parish: nowhere is this support more visible than Holy Innocents. Perhaps he could have a chat with Cardinal Dolan.

  38. JMMCBXVI says:

    Certainly Summorum Pontificum will not be stopped… not even by all the threats of political incorrectness. Father Z is absolutely right: for as much good particular associations promote the TLM, the real, unstoppable tidal wave are us diocesan priests. I already celebrate the TLM, with the Archbishop’s appointment, in my home diocese of Oviedo, Asturias, Spain, but wish I could do more. But given the circumstances surrounding me, for the time being, it’s the best we can hope for. Resilience, tenacity, indomitable will, a good dose of old-fashioned, stubborn “thick headedness”, obstinate and resolute perseverance, are ingredients that cannot be dispensed with in our legitimate fight for the liturgical Tradition of Holy Mother Church. It could very well be that good Pope Benedict XVI’s effort is akin to the timely arrival of Pippin and Merry to the forest of Fangorn, just in time to start an avalanche with Treebeard and the Ents… ;-)

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  40. jflare says:

    I have a somewhat different take on this.

    Fr Z comments about how diocesan priests will tend to be the ones who fully implement Summorum Pontificum, FSSP and ICK being somewhat more specialized in their intent. I don’t entirely agree. If we can agree that FSSP and ICK might be more specialized, I might point out that if I had a calling to be a priest, I think I’d want to pursue that calling with FSSP or ICK, not with a typical seminary. Perhaps the average major seminary does a decent job of training men, but I don’t have huge confidence that the average diocese will allow younger priests to learn such things as the traditional Mass that would make their vocations as effective as they might. While it’s not a cure-all, I do tend to think that if a man learns the traditional Mass, he’ll be that much more likely to be insistent about numerous matters of faith that’re critically important.

    I think I will offer to buy a video regarding training for the traditional Mass for the local archdiocese, but I don’t have much confidence that the archdiocese will have much enthusiasm for the idea. When I read on a website about how parish X is the parish for the traditional Mass, even if the bishop will allow for dual registration, I don’t have much confidence in the local Church’s willingness to deviate from the typical Novus Ordo.

    If I wasn’t very impressed with the idea of the priesthood during my teens with the early 90’s Novus Ordo, I find it tough to believe that current approaches will do much better with attracting young men.

  41. jflare says:

    Your comments strike me as being those of someone who might reside somewhere in Western Nebraska, although if you’re dealing with an archbishop, Northern Nebraska would be more likely.

    I can relate all too well to your experiences. If I attend Mass someplace outside Omaha–outside my home parish in Omaha, really–I usually anticipate that Mass will likely not have the traditional elements I’d prefer. One can pray, sure, but it’s more difficult with all the, um, modern, ideas about worship being floated about.

    May I ask which state you reside in?

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