From a reader:
Can you give insight regarding All Saints not being a Holy Day of Obligation? This was announced at a Mass my husband attended today in our diocese. It is also posted on Diocese website. There isn’t elaboration. I looked it up an apparently our American Bishops decided in 1991 to “abrogate the precept” to attend Mass for All Saints if it falls on a Sat or Mon.
My question is, does this abrogation make it no longer a Holy Day of Obligation? Second, why did they do that?
It is still a Holy Day. It just isn’t – I guess – a Holy Day of Obligation.
Go figure.
If I were Pope, I would wonder to myself whether it is a good idea allow the shifting of feast days (e.g., Ascension Thursday Sunday). I would wonder if it was a good idea to give people the impression that they only have to be Catholic on Saturday Evening and Sunday by eliminating the obligation to participate at Mass on other important feasts… feasts important for our identity as Catholics.
I think ALL SAINTS is important for understanding who we are as members of a Church Militant, still connected to the Church Triumphant.\
Apparently it is an undue burden to oblige Catholics to make room in their oh-so-busy lives for the worship of God and worthy reception of the Eucharist.
At the same time, I believe that bishops can, in their own dioceses, maintain the obligations. Perhaps a canonist can help, but I believe that to be the case. Conferences can’t bind bishops in their diocese.
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Heaven forbid that people be required to attend Holy Mass two days in a row. That’s just unthinkable.
What mess!
Fiddling with the Holy Days of Obligation just does NOT help to give people stability;
a very bad move…esp. with Ascension Day.
Weird.
When the day of obligation is removed, Masses are said during working hours only, and not later in the evening. So if we wanted to observe the Holy Day, we wouldn’t be able to.
traditionalorganist,
Blessed Solemnity of All Saints! At my parish, we will have a 7pm evening Mass so it does give the opportunity for those who work to attend Mass.
traditionalorganist:
I do not know where you live, but in the Diocese of Charlotte NC, there will be a Missa Cantata for the Feast of All Saints at 6:30 pm at St Anthony of Padua church in Mount Holly, 108 Horseshoe Bend Beach Road.
I noticed on the Te Deum Laudamus blog that the Archdiocese of Detroit, under the leadership of their excellent Archbishop Vigneron, is indeed observing today as an obligatory Holy Day. May many more bishops be inspired by his example!
It seems so strange to me that we Catholics come out in droves for Ash Wednesday, but the bishops think we can’t be bothered by some of the Holy Days when they fall on Saturday or Monday.
BTW, our 6:30 am Mass had quite a few more folks than usual today.
I wonder if this mentality isn’t a consequence of the Saturday anticipated Masses. If one needn’t go on Sunday if one went on Saturday, then how much less should he need to go on Monday if he already went on Sunday.
The deformation of our calendar is, in my opinion, nearly as bad as ad populorum celebration of the eucharist in directing people away from God and towards the mundane, and was made explicitly to prevent a return to the disciplines and norms of the past. Father Z’s comment about this day joining the Church Militant to our Brothers and Sisters in Eternity is very insightful, for this was truly a day which said, “The world to come sets the agenda for the Church.”
My understanding is that due to the large numbers of people attending church on Sunday, there is a huge backlog of prayer for the Heavenly Host to get through on Monday morning, and therefore the abrogation of the Holy Day of Obligation is actually intended to relieve the burden on God to have to answer our prayers. That and the Ministering Spirits need a day off too, and in general they take either Saturday or Monday. HDOs on Monday and Saturday cut into their vacation schedule in a way that’s absolutely unacceptable.
It really makes a ton of sense when you think about it. Far more sense than “American Catholics can’t figure out how to attend church two days in a row.”
Philangelus,
Ha Ha Ha!
yet sad really
Philangelus: Far more sense than “American Catholics can’t figure out how to attend church two days in a row.”
Well, at least you’ve said one thing that’s absolutely true.
I drove all over my southern Minnesota town this morning looking for Mass for All Saints Day, alas, in vain. Because there is no longer any obligation to attend Mass for the holy day, there is apparently no need for the priests to say Mass. Philangelus is absolutley right. Monday is the priest’s “day off” (would that be akin to my taking a day off from being a father?), so it is a bit too inconveneinet for them to offer Mass today. Sheeesh!
As for the Church Triumphant, a better awareness of its engagement in the activities of the Church militant might help people better understand the issue that Father Zuhlsdorf raises in his next post: salvatio extra Ecclesiam. If I recall, all the saints in heaven are members of the True Church. Exactly when each of them became a member might not be know. As my astute brother put it, “Perhaps there really is a Catholic baptismal font at the gates of Paradise.”
P.S. (Off topic but intriguing) Has anyone else noticed that a lot of the parishes offering EF Masses are dedicated to St Anthony of Padua?
All the shifting and confusion surrounding holy days of obligation causes most Catholics, I’m afraid, to just ignore them altogether. If the Church were to be a bit more heavy-handed, I think the result would be more Catholics in the pews for holy days, if only because a bright-line rule is easier to follow. Far be it from me to assume I know how to implement such a heavy-handed approach, but I think the shifting and wish-wash actually causes people to ignore the bishops more than a bright-line rule would.
While I am saying Mass in each of my two parishes today, I wonder if some of the larger parishes, where they have Mass(es) on Sat evening, Sun morning and Sun evening have trouble with a Mass schedule for a Sat or Mon Holy Day. I can hear the questions of parishioners also. If the Holy Day falls on Sat, do the Sat evening Masses cover both the Holy Day and Sunday? Same questions apply to Sun evening Mass and Monday Holy Days.
If a parish needs all of the Masses from Saturday evening through Sunday evening, can they offer enough Masses to cover the Holy Day schedule without causing these types of questions? I think we need to pray for more priests so we can staff more parishes so we can have manageable schedules for a Sat or Mon Holy Day.
As I hinted in the beginning, I’m all for having people come to Mass the Holy Days, even Sat or Mon. We seem to be able to make it work for Christmas, why not the other Holy Days? (I think some parishes cancel a Sunday Mass or two when Christmas is on a Monday. I’m not really for that either)
I don’t care why they do it, it is simply not fair for the bishops to promote this “do it yourself” sort of Catholicism. Can’t they just have Holy Days of Obligation on the actual days of the feast, and then tell the priests to tell people they have to come? Whatever you think, this is the reality for most Catholics today: They know they ought to go to church on Sunday but feel no obligation to do so, and the rest of the holy days of any kind are all optional. If you start going to mass on the HDoOs, then you have to decide for yourself to do so and, considering that you may not know anyone who does and your priest doesn’t tell you that you are obliged to go, you are not likely to. You can say they should do differently all you want to, but that is reality and it’s that way because it has been SET UP that way. How many kids would go to school every day if it were up to them to choose whether or not to go? Come on, bishops. In what I assume is an effort to make it easier for people, you are making it more difficult. The church year isn’t set up only for the most devout, it’s set up for everyone. But this way, only the most devout come — and even many of the more devout, who would muster up the will to come if they thought it was really required — will stay at home because it is set up to look like only the “super faithful” go.
My Pastor simply never mentions the fact that such and such a Holy Day is no longer obligatory. He schedules Mass at 8am and at 5:30pm and lets us assume it is obligatory as usual.
Of course, when a feast really IS obligatory, he also goes out of his way to let us know, in no uncertain terms, that it is obligatory.
He’s clever.
Wherein I rant about this and other issues …
http://causafinitaest.blogspot.com/2010/10/day-of-obligation-rant.html
in summary, these things drive me nuts, and it is no wonder that people outside the Church think we are legalistic.
SGCOLC – I like your pastor’s approach!
FrLeo – it might be worth having a couple of “two for one holy day Masses” ” (Sunday eve, Monday morn) during the course of a year to get the calendar back into shape.
The underlying problem is that there can be no obligation unless there are clear consequences for failing to meet the obligation. That would mean preaching about mortal sin.
Just a corrective to above – today is, unfortunately NOT a day of precept in the Archdiocese of Detroit, contrary to what has been said on some blogs. Not only is it not a day of obligation, but the archdiocesan offices are open today, which would seem in conflict with canon 1247 if it were a day of obligation.
Canon 1246 gives to the Conference of Bishops the right, with the prior approval of the Holy See, to suppress some of the Holy Days of Obligation or to transfer them to a Sunday. This privilege is not extended to individual bishops in their diocese – so an individual bishop cannot suppress a day of precept for his diocese.
The question of whether an individual bishop can add a day of precept – or impose an obligation that has been lifted by the Bishops’ Conference seems to be unanswered in the law. It would seem to me, that the mind of the Legislator, expressed in canon 1246, desires to have this issue treated at the level of the Conferences of Bishops rather than individual dioceses, so as not to cause further confusion among the faithful (e.g., say I live in the diocese of X, but regularly hear Mass in the diocese of Y, and work in the diocese of Z, to which law am I bound?).
I suppose that an individual bishop could impose an obligation and petition the Holy See for approval – or simply impose it and see if anyone objects.
Unfortunately, however, this seems to be left with Bishops’ Conferences, and our Bishops’ Conference, for whatever reason, has determined that Catholics are inconvenienced by having to worship God on days too close to Sunday. Sad.
However, the suppression of a holy day can be considered a favor, or a privilege (see canon 76 &c). A favor need not be accepted, and so the faithful can ignore the favor and consider themselves bound by the obligation to attend Mass and to “abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.” (c. 1247)
One thing to consider is, this is a blessing in disquise for some traditionals, at least until Summorum Pontificum is taken seriously.
For me, the closet TLM is an hour away. My wife, expecting our third, would have to pack up our two youngest and drive over an hour in rush hour traffic to meet me at Mass — at 7:30pm, our children’s bedtime. We’d get home around 10 pm.
For those of us who will not, regardless of the arguments, expose our children to the Novus Ordo, this relaxing of the rules actually helps us a lot.
Hope that won’t be needed by the time my oldest turns the age of reason. We’d like them at Mass everyday — not just holy days.
I wonder what would happen if the Bishops’ had to function on their own without an intermediate?
I think we should just follow the Vatican on the Holy Days, how life would be so much easier.
In England & Wales this year, today, November 1st, is Feria of the 31st Week of Year 2!
Regards,
John U.K.
I’m no big fan of the Bishops’ Conferences, and think that the bureaucracy that seems to go hand in hand with them has not been a good thing for the Church, but they do serve a useful purpose. I would hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
We are, actually following the Vatican on the Holy Days – it is the Supreme Legislator that permits Bishops’ Conferemces to suppress certain days of obligation, and that approved the US Bishops’ complicated scheme for handling Holy Days in the US – so the “guilt” should not hang entirely on the Bishops’ Conference – the Holy See could have rejected the scheme if it had wanted to.
I do wish there were some means of appealing against the decision of the US Bishops and the Holy See to allow this denudation of our liturgical year.
Important note / clarification:
“I do not know where you live, but in the Diocese of Charlotte NC, there will be a Missa Cantata for the Feast of All Saints at 6:30 pm at St Anthony of Padua church in Mount Holly, 108 Horseshoe Bend Beach Road.”
St. Anthony of Padua is an SSPX chapel and NOT a part of the Diocese of Charlotte.
Prior to the Second Vatican Council and the current Code of Canon Law, weren’t Holy Days of Obligation designated by entire countries, rather than dioceses? I’m thinking of the U.S. (and perhaps some of the largely Protestant countries of Europe), where January 1 was a Holy Day of Obligation and Janary 7, Epiphany (a Holy Day of Obligation in Rome and in largely Catholic countries, and arguably one of the highest ranking feasts of the year), wasn’t.
What might be interesting to compare is how those decisions were made with the current canon law reference to national bishops’ conferences, with approval of the Holy See.
From a lay perspective, of course I agree with most of the good folks posting here–having to wait for the bulletin to know whether or not we have a Holy Day of Obligation appears to be one more unsettling liturgical option assocated with the sixties and seventies. Fr. Leo, though, alludes to what I’ve heard about the matter from some priests. The argument is that, with vigil Masses and fewer priests, parishes find it difficult logistically in a number of places to support Holy Days of Obligation close to the weekend and still do everything that needs to be done with the Sunday. I am unsure, though, of how widespread such a problem is, or whether or not it’s a “fig leaf” to cover a different rationale.
In Christ,
It’s a Holy Day of Obligation in my diocese. Our parish had two Masses this morning and will have another this evening.
So, if one attends the novus ordo (which rejects Saturday and Monday holy days), here is the summary of the six holy days of obligation:
1) Ascension Thursday is transfered to Ascension Sunday.
2) The Assumption falls on a Sunday (no fault of the novus ordo, but just making a point).
3) All Saints Day is on a Monday.
4) Christmas is on a Saturday.
5) The Octave of Christmas is on a Saturday.
So is the only novus ordo holy day of obligation really the Immaculate Conception on 12/8??? Or did they at least spare Christmas?
Five more reasons why I will NEVER attend the novus ordo. Why do so many priests spend to much time talking about what is not obligatory?
St. Anthony of Padua is an SSPX chapel and NOT a part of the Diocese of Charlotte.
Mr D
I did not say that St Anthony of Padua is part of the Diocese of Charlotte, rather I said it is in the diocese of Charlotte. [as in geographically located]
What point are you trying to make?
wolfeken, I’m not sure it’s fair to say the novus ordo rejects Saturday and Monday holy days, but that the option to relieve Catholics of the obligation when they fell on those days was made available to local bishops.
Wolfeken, Christmas maintains its place regardless of what day it is. I believe that the Feast of the Immaculate Conception does as well.
Also, while I’m sure it’s not enforced and it’s probably not the intention of the diocesan bishops, only the actual requirement to attend Mass on those holy days is abrogated. It is still otherwise to be observed as usual. (This theoretically still means abstaining from servile labor… not that I’m obeying that today :o)
I’m really not a fan of the Ascension Thursday nonsense. After growing up in Philadelphia where my Catholic school gave us the day off on Holy Days, including Ascension Thursday (which is still observed on Thursday in that diocese), it was weird to move and find out that the day is not observed here. Plus, with the “more flexible” schedule for Sunday Mass (allowing for Saturday evening masses, and Sunday masses late at night), I understand why they abrogate the Mass attendance requirement for monday and saturday holy days… but why move the Ascension?
I fail to understand why the Bishops did not just keep the calendar as it was and dispense with the Holy Days of Obligation. In effect this is what they have done by moving Feasts to the nearest Sunday. This weekend, as in the US, we celebrated All Saints day on Sunday but have to wait until Tuesday for All Souls Day which not being a Holy day has not been moved. However in my parish this evening we will be having another All Saints day Mass this time in the EF. I am certainly not complaining – but it feels odd to celebrate a feast day twice in this way. I know both are licit but I am tending to feel that tonight will be the ‘proper’ feast.
Between the Diocese of Arlington and the Archdiocese of Washington, there will be seven traditional Latin Masses offered today on the feast of All Saints.
If more time was spent promoting today’s schedule Masses instead of all this discussion on why one could play around online instead of attend Mass today, perhaps we would be a little stronger as a Church. Even priests who ordinarily are pretty solid seem to be wasting a lot of time this weekend and today talking about not having to attend Mass on All Saints Day. Priorities, people.
Wolfeken:
I am a “novus ordo” priest and I do not spend too much time talking about what is not obligatory. There are many of us priests who are frustrated at the bishops for relaxing these obligations, but they have the canonical power to do so and we have the obligation to inform the faithful when the bishops have passed this legislation. Of course, I strongly encourage the faithful to observe the day as if missing it was still a mortal sin.
But it is also frustrating dealing with some of those who are self-proclaimed traditionalists. They stand after Mass and berate me for announcing these changes from the bishops, which I have no control over. I in turn tell them that I always offer Mass during Holy Days, and in the evening for those who are working during the day. Then when I ask them later why they didn’t show up to Mass, they get red faced and don’t respond. I know why. They enjoy the hypocrisy of drama and indignation at “modernist changes” but also do not hesitate to excuse themselves from Mass as long as it is not mortal sin. So, the bishops and clergy are not the only ones guilty of enjoying relaxations. Plenty of laity do also, and among them those who think themselves to be traditionalists in all things (within their convenience).
MikeM: You are CORRECT that Christmas and the feast of our National Patroness (I.C.) are always holy days of obligation regardless of whether they fall on Saturday or Monday.
I think the better approach is the priest referenced above who does not mention the latest bishops’ nonsense. That is not to say he will answer a question if asked. But it’s not worth spending time on.
If there is some sort of “obligation” to promote the bishops’ elimination of holy days of obligation, then isn’t there an equal “obligation” to promote the bishops’ positions on how one should vote on Tuesday with respect to the minimum wage, raising taxes, environmental regulation, open borders, banning capital punishment and all of the other nonsense that they take positions on?
If priests want to spend so much time on this, then no one will attend Mass on holy days and liberal Democrats will prevail at the polls Tuesday. There comes a time when we have to ignore the bishops. Not lie or make up stuff, but just ignore them when we can.
Denis Crnkovic: I drove all over my southern Minnesota town this morning looking for Mass for All Saints Day, alas, in vain. Because there is no longer any obligation to attend Mass for the holy day, there is apparently no need for the priests to say Mass. . . . Monday is the priest’s “day off”
These are Catholic parishes? I have never heard of a parish near me without a Mass on Monday (whether or not a holy day). In my local parish, the priest–who celebrates at least one Mass 7 days weekly–sang a simple EF high Mass (without incense) in a small but SRO side chapel around dawn this morning, then a half hour later celebrated a “big” OF Mass entirely chanted (including the Gospel) with all the smells and bells and about triple the normal weekday attendance, followed by the Litany of the Saints.
This is just crazy. Look, if it’s a Holy Day on Tuesday, it’s a Holy Day on Monday. I really don’t think this is that hard. The moving of Ascension Thursday drives. me. crazy.
My parish had two Masses today, per usual, and is having one tonight. Usually the first Monday of the month there’s an evening Mass for the Marian Movement of Priests, but tonight’s it’s going to be a celebration of All Saints’–incense and all that. (We have incense as a matter of course on Sundays, but rarely on weekdays.) So I’ll be going to Mass tonight.
Wolfeken:
You are speaking of apples and oranges. When you are dealing with an ecclesiastical precept that binds under pain of mortal sin, you are dealing with grave matters of conscience. It is not a game of “let’s see if you can guess right about the precept of this holy day.” I don’t care for clever or childish games with my parishioners. They are adults and wish to be informed, responsibly, as adults so that they can then examine their consciences properly.
On the other hand, by the bishops’ own admission, the advice about minimum wage, eco-sensitivity, immigration, etc. falls under the heading of “pastoral exhortation.” It is neither doctrinal nor binding and, in fact, many bishops do not go beyond informing their subjects that such and such exhortation has been published by the national conference or state conference.
capchoirgirl:
There is no disagreement that All Saints is a holy day, and in the OF, has the rank of “solemnity” no matter what day it falls on.
The issue is whether failing to attend is mortal sin. Only the diocesan bishop, sometimes working with the other bishops in the same metropolitan province, can relax this precept. If he does so, we may not be happy, but we have no authority to “reinstate” the previous precept. Bishops have authority to impose precepts that bind under pain of mortal sin, and they have power to remove them–laity and priests do not. So, where the precept has been dropped for Saturday and Monday, there is no precept of obligation.
God forbid we make people go to Mass two days in a row.
I really wish these days were still days of obligation. Mass should be something people WANT to go to, not an unwanted burden in their day. I went to Mass this morning and was a little late for my 9am class and it would have been so much easier to explain if it had been a day of obligation but, as it is not, I simply responded “yes” when the professor asked if it was a religious holiday(I hope that is not a lie)–if I had gone into detail he would not have understood. For me it is a HOLY DAY OF OBLIGATION!!
The fact that this is not a holy day of obligation does not stop anyone from attending Mass anyway. Many people have all kinds of obligations, kids, difficult bosses, long stressful days. Would be nice to live in a Catholic nation where everyone took off from work on the 1st of November, but in the absence of such a benefit I could find something positive about not being held guilty if you can’t make it to Mass today. If you think you have the time and the desire and the ability: go for it. No one stops you.
I happen to agree with Andrew.
I attended Mass at 0800. At lunch time, I walked to a local cemetary and said prayers for the dead. This particular local cemetary had man Civil War and Spanish American war graves. Worked a full day too.
The point being that I had both the time and the inclination to worship. And, still have time to go home and watch the Giants dismantle the Rangers. :)
Here at Wyoming Catholic College All Saints was a big day today. The choir went all out and most of the students were at the major college mass at noon. Did I mention that there were also no classes today?
Well that explains the low turn out for the 9 am Mass at a local church I attended this morning, it was still The Feast of All Saints, but only a dozen people there, and except for a couple toddlers with Grandparents, I was the youngest person there.
Of course, if All Saints’ was celebrated at yesterday’s Sunday Mass, then last night wasn’t “All Hallows Eve” and I hope you didn’t celebrate it (tongue-in-cheek)!
Someone mentioned above about different dioceses having different expectations and what one would do if they live, work, and worship in different ones. I don’t know if this still holds true, but I was taught that if, for example, one is in a European country on Jan. 6 and it is a holy day of obligation there, then you, by virtue of being in that country on that day, are obliged to attend Mass, even if you are a bona fide American not obliged in America. (I think that is a run-on sentence…sorry to any English majors).
I do so agree with “kat”.
If you are in Europe and the day is a Holy Day of Obligation there, then coming from another country where it is not a Holy Day of Obligation, does not excuse you from the obligation of attending Mass on that day.
As it happens, I live in a country where November the First is not a Holy Day of Obligation and we had Mass which was sparsely attended. However, today, the Second of November, Mass was in another, smaller chapel, not the main church, and there were people standing outside because they could not get into the chapel!!! How about that for foresight on behalf of our PP?!!
(You will gather from the way in which I denote the date that I am not an American. I do not say November One but either November the First or the First of November).
Michael Voris weighed in on the holy day of non-obligation on RealCatholicTV :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgCIyZxXOY
Here where I live (in Singapore), all saints day IS a holy day of obligation. Always has been, as far as I can remember. Extra masses are celebrated in the evening to allow working people to participate. I never knew it wasn’t in other regions, and never imagined it could be anything else (but a day of obligation, that is).
Glastonbury UK: NOM – Sunday “All Saints”; Monday – NOM (OT) and TLM – “All Saints”; Tuesday – NOM “All Souls” am & pm; TLM “All “Souls” 12:15.
Wolfeken wrote:
So, if one attends the novus ordo (which rejects Saturday and Monday holy days), here is the summary of the six holy days of obligation: . . .
Nothing to do with the Novus Ordo.
Entirely the decision of the assorted bishops’ conferences.
I believe that if in Rome, the Monday and Saturday transference rule applies, but within the Vatican State itself, the days are kept on their original days. So should you find yourself in Rome, you will be able to go to a Novus Ordo Mass in the Vatican on the untransferred day.
That aside, surely one of the most significant things te Holy Father could do in pursuit of mutual enrichment between the OF & EF is harmonisation of the General Roman Calendar?
Regards,
John U.K.
John U.K., if by harmonisation you mean a hybird of the 1962 calendar and the post-Vatican II calendar, I would rather the current messy state of affairs then have Christ the King moved away from Reformation Day, Ascension Sunday, the elimination of the Circumcision and all of the other nonsense that exists (and will likely continue) with the novus ordo. There is no need to change the traditional calendar just to say we’re splitting the difference.
We have a (very respectful) petition going to persuade the bishops to restore Corpus Christi celebration to Thursday as a Holy Day of Obligation. If anyone would like to sign you can get it here http://mccamley.org/corpus-christi-petition.php
The US Bishops could not recognize a Holy Day from a holy cow!
They are hell bent on destroying the Church. Elections can help fix some
of the ignorance in society, but only prayer will correct the abuses they heap upon us.