From the delightfully-named Weasel Zippers comes this:
[Former Speaker of the House and catholic Nancy] Pelosi [D-CA8] on Catholic’s Being Anti-Abortion: “They Have This Conscience Thing”…
And she called Cain “clueless?”
Via WaPo:
. . . Pelosi recently was criticized for the way she characterized a bill to amend Republican-proposed conscience exemptions for health-care reform that allow providers to refuse to perform abortions. Pelosi called the measure, which passed last month with some help from Democrats, “savage,’’ and said, “When the Republicans vote for this bill today, they will be voting to say that women can die on the floor and health-care providers do not have to intervene, if this bill is passed. It’s just appalling.”
In retrospect, does she think that assessment went too far? Not at all, she said: “They would” let women die on the floor, she said. “They would! Again, whatever their intention is, this is the effect.’’
Catholic health-care providers in particular have long said they’d have to go out of business without the conscience protections that Pelosi says amount to letting hospitals “say to a woman, ‘I’m sorry you could die’ if you don’t get an abortion.” Those who dispute that characterization “may not like the language,’’ she said, “but the truth is what I said. I’m a devout Catholic and I honor my faith and love it .?.?. but they have this conscience thing’’ that she insists put women at physical risk, although Catholic providers strongly disagree.
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I’m glad I’m not the Bishop who hasn’t the conviction of his job to stake a stand and make a public declaration that this woman is EXCOMMUNICATED. It must feel pretty bad to lack a backbone.
I cannot believe there are Bishops who punish priests for speaking out on Church teaching boldly and accurately and then allow this woman to continue to cause scandal to the Faithful.
hmmm, that second statement is intended to refer to two different Bishops and is unclear the way I worded it–sorry!
Sounds to me like Pelosi needs to learn more about that whole “bearing false witness” thing, not to mention the “causing scandal to the faithful” thing.
After graduating from nursing school in 1956, I spent the rest of my professional time in Maternal and Child Nursing. After 16 years in labor and delivery, I can testify that I never saw a mother die because she was not provided with an abortion. The rest of my years were spent in neonatal nursing. Usually if a mother is going to die because of a terrible disease, the fetus will also unless it is viable and can be saved, though premature. There are times when a drug, such as cobalt, can be given for advanced cancer. In this case he fetus will die, but no abortion is performed. It is a secondary result.
When is the hierarchy of the American church going to call this woman to the carpet. She is not a loyal, devoted Catholic, she is the tool of the devil. She is as guilty as the nun in Phoenix who excommunicated herself. This woman is telling Catholic women that it is permissable to abort their children. Sounds like Hitler! I am so upset after reading this. For years we have let others tell us what to believe and the pro-abortionists are liars, plain and simple.
Sorry for the rant but this is something to get excited about. St Gerard, be at the side of every pregnant woman who is asked to make such a decision.
Darn Catholics with that conscience thing of theirs. How dare they think for themselves! Don’t they know that whatever the law says is right is right because the law said it?!?
I would really, really like to see strong words *followed by strong actions* from some of our American (and my Canadian) bishops. Some have been making those moves lately, but we need so much more. We need bishops who are going to use excommunication, interdict, publicly denying Communion, instructing their diocesan parishes to deny Communion… At the end of the day, it’s as much for the benefit of people like Pelosi as it is for the rest of us.
Recently my sister asked me about my stance on abortion, and what would I say in the event of a tubal pregnancy, where the baby will not survive, and the mother’s life is at risk if nothing is done to terminate the pregnancy. This may be the type of situation being referred to above. I tried to explain that there is a difference between actively seeking the death of the baby (abortion), and a medically necessary procedure that has the unintended result of the death of the baby (tubal pregnacy). I don’t think she bought it. I think it sounded to her like using semantics to get out of a corner into which I had painted myself.
I’m reminded of George Bush in 1988 with “the vision thing.” But this is so much more classic. “This conscience thing.” Priceless.
I’ve said this before, but: at least Richard Rich had the courage to publicly defect from the Catholic Church.
Sad that she has been duped by an agenda which is not friendly to women that has pitted women versus children. Feminism need not be that way, and certainly it need not either be fanatically about women versus children. She feels compelled to call herself Catholic and demonize Catholic in the minds of those who desire greater abortions, clearly she feels it necessary to the retention of her office to do so, why else would she take great pains to speak out of both sides of her mouth in this way, targeting Catholics?
She hasn’t been duped. She just sold her soul and has lost all of her conscience. All that counts for her is re-election and the platform of the Democratic Family Liquidation Party and its supporters.
I had to re-read it because I thought I misread it that she was calling herself a devout Catholic. Sadly my reading comprehension was correct this time.
Me thinks she needs one of those conversion of heart things, and a trip to confession thing, before she’s faced with that final judgement thing.
Of course, if the death of the child is willed neither as an ends or a means, there is a question of moral theology about whether this constitutes a “direct” act/effect, and in the cases of side-effects proportionality becomes the key consideration.
Why is “letting women die on the floor” so much more horrible and abominable than actively murdering innocent babies? Why can’t someone silence those of Pelosi’s persuasion once and for all simply by shouting, “They are killing innocent babies!” It shouldn’t take a bishop to set this nonsense straight. Where has the pro-life movement gone wrong? There are times I wish I had some sort of power or influence so that I could use it to good advantage. Why don’t pro-life people start an “Occupy” movement of some sort for the unborn? So many questions, so few answers.
JenB – If I understand rightly, in the case of a tubal pregnancy, there’s nothing medicine can do to save the baby, but the tubal implantation does threaten the mother’s life. There’s no semantic corner-extrication involved – it’s a salvage operation.
I thought people like Nancy Pelosi were big on following your conscience — even if it’s malformed and goes against Church teaching. But health care providers can’t follow their well-formed consciences which conform to Church teaching?!
Ah, I think I understand. Pelosi doesn’t want one’s conscience to be one’s god. She wants HER conscience to be everyone’s god.
May God have mercy on her soul.
Andrew, good point on which is the greater evil of the two. However, I disagree that the problem is with the prolife movement. They back prolife candidates and post on the internet who is prolife so anyone who wants can check before they vote. They pray outside clinics and do sidewalk counseling.
The problem is that without the Bishops taking a solid stand and making examples of these very public heretics the Catholic vote will continue to favor pro abortion candidates because they have been allowed to point to persons like Pelosi and use her as justification for failing to follow Church teaching on life.
If the Bishops don’t begin to fear God more than the bitchy, birth control and abortion addicted, feminists (male or female) and take a stand even if said feminists abandon the Church (is it really a loss when people who refuse to live as Catholics leave?). After all, until they leave they cannot finally begin to regret being separated from God, repent and return.
The deception lies in using the imagery of “women dying on the floor” to justify the how many tens of millions slaughtered in not remotely that sort of terrible situation, and to justify now expanding that number out to a horrific degree, and the pretense that the generations snuffed out, gone to big abortion, without any benefits at all or the chance to exist, do not matter. In fact those who are not here matter, a great deal, to many, and, to God. That is not just a sort of “conscience, thing”.
MarkA
Amen.
And may He also have mercy on our souls, too.
If the irony were any heavier, it’d be leady.
Some of you may recognise this quote:
“What do we do with witches?
– Burn them!
What do we burn besides witches?
– More witches!
…
But there are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
– Are there? What are they? Do they hurt?”
I hope she will one day also aquire “one of those conscience things.” They are actually quite nice and very useful.
She must have conscience envy…
Wow! She is stone cold crazy and delusional! And we allow people like her to run a country? No wonder everything’s going to the dogs!
If a pregnant woman were lying dying on the ground… nobody would leave her there! The doctors who would not perform an abortion would help her by doing plenty of other things that don’t require murder! They will help her give birth, they will help induce labor and try to save both lives, they will do whatever is necessary to save both mother and child.
The point is not who dies and who lives! It’s about our intentions in this life! Either we respect life and fight for it or we do not! Either we tolerate murder or we do not! Our choices and ideologies shape and train our souls to be of a particular kind. When we die, and WE WILL ALL DIE! Our souls enter into eternity, and depending on what we’ve become due to our choice on Earth, we will either accept God and choose Him and who He is and all He stands for and enter into the joy of Heaven, or we will reject Him, reject who He is, reject all He stands for, and in our pride and arrogance desire to be as far away from Him as apossible because He isn’t what we wanted, and thus we choose hell! And these decisions will be eternal!
Heaven and Hell Exist! And we’re heading for one or the other! That’s what it’s about! That’s what it’s always been about!!! Abortion is not so much about the lives of the children as it is about wheter or not we as a society and individuals become a group of people who adore murder or hate murder! God does not change! He hates murder! Those who hate murder and hate abortion and understand His will and why He created us and gave life to us and with whome we co-create life with in the fashion of sexuality, will become compatabile with Him and be joined to Him in heaven and know Him intimately face to face! Whereas those who do not respect life, do not struggle for it and for others, and for whom murder become mundane and routine, will in their pride believe that heaven is not for them. That eternal life is not for them, and choosing everlasting death itself shall unwittingly and proudly find hell more to their liking. It is a tragedy, but one that the vast majority the world over are choosing to prefer day after day! They underestimate eternity and their choice in life which determine their eternity!
Not only is Pelosi determined to kill and murder and allow others to join her in it, she is now taking the steps to force others who want nothing to do with it to join her in her offerings of blood! Misery loves company, and so do the inhabitants of hell!
When your eye is sound, your whole body is full of light; but when it is not sound, your whole body is full of darkness. Therefore be careful lest the light in you be darkness. Luke 11:34-35 When the eye is healthy, things are seen as they are, undistorted. A sick eye either does not see or it distorts reality; it deceives its own subject and she can come to think that events and people are in fact as her defective visions views them. When one makes mistake in ordinary life, having falsely interpreted some facts, it can lead to problems and difficulties which are, at times, of little importance. But when the error refers to matters regarding eternal life, its consequences have no limit. IN CONVERSATION WITH GOD, Chapter 13, CONSCIENCE THE LIGHT OF THE SOUL
O, Lord! if she is a devout Catholic, then I’m the Dahli Lama!
“This conscience thing,” by which she means free-floating anxiety or what? You’d think that someone in her position might be able to think (and as thinking’s correlate, speak) better than that, wouldn’t you?
Another “conscience problem,” thanks to today’s Pearls Before Swine
http://cdn.svcs.c2.uclick.com/c2/610d1a50effc012e2fb600163e41dd5b
God bless you, Heway.
1) “I honor my faith and love it”: her faith, not our faith, but her own personal version of the Catholic faith, which obviously differs on certain moral issues. This is the faith in which she is devout.
2) XXIV Sunday after Pent. / XXXIV in O.T.: God’s admonition to Nancy Pelosi (and us).
Admittedly the subject of Nancy Pelosi causes me to become disorderly, but to speak honestly Archishop Niederauer has invited her in for a chat about her position on abortion. If she has accepted the invitation it plainly has not caused a change in her behaviour. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to wonder if she has presented herself for communion, something she has alleged she did quite regularly. If she does, that certainly scandalizes those who observe her receiving it. Since she still calls herself “Catholic” presumably she does receive communion. In that case the Archbishop’s silence is also cause for scandal. Pelosi is someone who is very powerful and, like most of us who quail before power, the Archbishop probably is loathe to act. It has been observed before that our bishops, who are responsible for dispensing the Gifts of the Holy Ghost, might be well advised to withhold a portion of them, especially Fortitude, for their own use.
She has seriously drunk the koolaid. All I can do is pray for her conversion.
I actually like my conscience thingy and I keep trying to help it grow in conformity to the Church. I figure that is a good idea seeing that it was founded by Jesus and all.
I think she’d be right if she said: I’d let a baby die in the womb, I would! Whatever my intention, this is the effect…I have this self-inflicted ignorance thing.
I agree MissOH, prayer is the important thing, and I like my conscience thingy too (keeps me out of trouble and hopefully out of hell).
Yep, they are pro-choice as long as the choice is one they agree with.
A person allows deceit into a life with one small thing. One thing, like not paying all one’s taxes, or holding back information on investments. One has an abortion and then deceives one’s self into saying it was necessary, or not a real person, or traumatic, or whatever. The lies pile on until one cannot find the truth anymore and one’s conscience is buried under such a level of lies, that the truth is buried. Like the famous Circumlocution Office in Little Dorrit, the truth is lost in the departments of the mind, categorize into nothingness. However, God knows the heart and the mind and no amount of rationalizing can hide the Truth from the clarity of the Light of God Himself. We all have to face the particular judgement. Let us pray for this poor, deluded woman.
A person allows deceit into a life with one small thing. One thing, like not paying all one’s taxes, or holding back information on investments. One has an abortion and then deceives one’s self into saying it was necessary, or not a real person, or traumatic, or whatever. The lies pile on until one cannot find the truth anymore and one’s conscience is buried under such a level of lies, that the truth is buried. Like the famous Circumlocution Office in Little Dorrit, the truth is lost in the departments of the mind, categorize into nothingness. However, God knows the heart and the mind and no amount of rationalizing can hide the Truth from the clarity of the Light of God Himself. We all have to face the particular judgement. Let us pray for this poor, deluded woman.
This is a perfect example of why so many Catholics are conflicted about doctrine. Nancy Pelosi claims she is an ardent Catholic but publicly, loudly, persistantly she supports abortion. Why has this woman not been excommunicated? It is shameful……why don’t all the bishops speak out against her and her positions?