Card. Baldisseri
I’m sure you are all really excited about the prospect of another Synod (“walking together”) of Bishops! The last two Synods were so helpful for our Catholic identity and unity. This time the theme will be “Young People, the Faith and the Discernment of Vocation.”
In preparation for the Synod (“walking together”), the head of the Synod office, Card. Baldisseri – who worked diligently with his team to fulfill their hoped for outcome – has a new idea.
CNA reports that the Synod (“walking together”) has established a website with a survey that “young people” can take. The results will, apparently, help the bishops of the Synod understand what it is like to be a young person in the Church (because, I guess, they were never young). I noted an interesting twist, however. Let’s see if you find it, too.
While much of the new website is currently only available in Italian, it includes a survey for young people in multiple different languages: Italian, English, French, Spanish and Portuguese.
The answers to the survey will be sent to the synod’s [“walking together”] Secretary General, Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri, through November 30, 2017, and will be used to provide the bishops with an understanding of what it’s like to be a young person in the Church.
The preparatory document for the synod defines youth as being individuals 16-29 years old, but also takes into account that the definition of “young” is different depending on where you’re from. The survey allows for answers from people born in the year 1950 or later.
The broad survey includes questions about education, home and family life, what young people think about themselves, and how much trust they have in institutions such as the government and the Church.
NB: Young people seems to mean 16-29 years of age. But they have opened the survey to people”born in the year 1950 or later”. As I count, if you were born in 1950, then today you would be about 67 years old, depending on the month of your appearance. I don’t want to throw a wet blanket on this but… really?
Here’s what could happen.
It is not hard to imagine that the organizers of the Synod (“walking together”) have pre-determined goals. They did last time, right? So, they gather information from a large group (young people now includes people pushing 70, it seems). Who knows what they will do with that information. I suspect that they will use it in support of their pre-determined goals (i.e., undermine the Magisterium of John Paul II).
Then they will present their fact-findings as evidence of a vox populi, a sensus fidelium. You’ll here these terms used as the Synod (“walking together”) revs up.
There are more than 50 Ways To Rig A Synod, as it turns out.
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Only in the College of Cardinals would 67 be considered young.
The depressing news just keeps coming. Everyday something to chip away at the faithful’s morale. Time to pray more, and for a miracle at that.
They seem to be doing a better job at hiding their predetermined outcome, which seems smart from their perspective
Baldisseri is the mail thief , correct? Okay, just checking .
[Let’s just say that copies of Remaining in the Truth of Christ were mailed, via Italian post, to the members of the Synod (“walking together”) who each had official mailboxs served by Vatican Post. Someone with enough clout to interfere had those books confiscated, once they realized what had been delivered. So, mail was stolen, which is a crime in any nation.]
The most exciting part of this is that at 64 years of age I’m still considered a “yout” Will miracles never cease!
It would seem there might be a new Dicastery for Synods With Predetermined Outcomes in the works. After all, they are appearing like clockwork….
I wonder. How, and to whom, will this survey be promoted? My oldest child is 16. I wonder whether she will have ever heard of this, or whether, for that matter, I myself in my youthful middle age will hear of it by any means other than this blog or CNA.
Amused by the year list going back to 1950 on a questionnaire for young people. However still not far enough back for me! I wonder if anyone can fill it in pretending they are in that age group and how they would know otherwise.
Holy Church survived the insanity of the late tenth century, even though many of her sons were slain by their brethren. She’ll pull through this, but it certainly looks like as grim a time for the Church in Rome in centuries.
If faithful participants are to be marginalized as during previous Synods, what’s to keep them from organizing a counter-gathering? Obviously that would excite rage and recriminations from the nomenklatura now in charge. But not to confront what is apt to be a very deep Modernist incursion would be far worse.
I’m not heedless of the consequences of what would surely be mislabeled ‘schism’. But the de facto schism occurred decades ago. There has never been a more exigent need to reinforce, boldly and visibly, Catholics’ confidence in the true and eternal beliefs of Christ’s Church.
The bishops need the almost 70 crowd to help them with the repeal Humanae Vitae.
For the state of life there is no option for celibates unless we were to choose “other (widow,widower…)”. Unintentional or would they rather youngish priests/religious not participate?
Wow! I’m 60 years young! Et introibo ad altare Dei: ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam. I used to say that as a server in my 40’s and 50’s and now it is literally true!
Huh…just took the survey, and while I was glad to see items like “defense of life” listed as an option on the “important issues” list, it seemed that much of the questions were more concerned with employment/career than anything else. Of course, as we all know, youth unemployment is the greatest crisis facing the world today…I put in as many plugs for things like “clear and constant teaching of the Church,” “fearlessly proposing timeless Truths” as I could on the free-format responses. We’ll see…
An oddity: when I clicked “submit,” instead of receiving some kind of confirmation that my responses had been recorded, I was re-directed to the survey’s start page (in Italian). I wonder if my responses were, in fact, ignored because I submitted a birth year that makes me over the 29 y.o. limit?
A poll taken via an internet website? Hmmm… sounds like a situation which will be rife with Russian hacking.
I’m sure the “Gender Crisis” will be the next topic upon which we’ll all be lectured to be “more inclusive” about.
So if I’m in my 30s I can legitimately take the survey (and while of course giving honest answers I could help to ever, ever so slightly skew the results towards the “traditional” way of thinking)?
[Wouldn’t it be interesting were the SSPX and FSSP and ICK, etc., to move their young people (up to 67) to partake in the survey?]
In regards to the “defense of life question”. Yes, I was happy to see it there, and chose that, along with “particular attention to defend professed truths”.
However…..there is a drop of poison that is clearly shown here. Notice it says, “major promotion and defense of life from birth”………birth…NOT conception! So……according to these “synod fathers”…..we must care, defend, and promote life beginning at birth?!?! What about from conception to natural death???
“Priusquam te formarem in utero novi te et antequam exires de vulva sanctificavi te prophetam gentibus dedi te”/”Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I hallowed thee, I appointed thee a prophet unto the nations”.
St. Mother Teresa, ora pro nobis!
St. John Paul II, ora pro nobis!
St. Michael the Archangel, ora pro nobis!
fr.ctl, I noted the same thing at the end of the survey. I said that, as a priest, I felt Priesthood or Religious Life ought to be an option.
But I’m pretty sure my input was otherwise not what they were looking for
I took this the other day and when I got to almost the end, it wouldn’t allow me to click on some of the circles. They stayed blank. I can’t remember which ones they were. I kept trying and nothing would happen.
This survey needs to be distributed far and wide among Extraordinary Form communities and Orthodox parishes/homeschool cooperatives/schools. We need to make sure the Synod knows the thoughts of holy young people.
Someone who is born in 1950 would remember the TLM and can give comments on their youthful experience thereof.
I am most grateful to the organisers of the survey of youth. I was born in 1947 and am delighted to know that I am almost ‘young’.
On a more serious note.
How do the organisers of the survey check that the people who respond to it are, indeed, Catholics? Or ‘young”, whatever the definition. Could I fill it in without them being any the wiser? Could an atheist fill it in without them being any the wiser?
And even if all the people who respond are genuinely Catholic and young, how do the organisers ascertain show far these respondents are representative of young Catholics as a whole?
I suspect that Fr Z is right and that the organisers aren’t really interested in the identity of the people who respond as they have already decided what the responses will say.
No input possible from the Germans yet ?
Folks born in 1951 not eligible, but 1952 and 1950 yes
Best age to leave home: 0- 90 ?
Must live in a town!
How can there be after “all things considered” one age for when to have children ?
Asking the “older youth” in their 60s why they aren’t having more children …
Catholicism is a religion for English speakers?
Most of the questions about the importance of issues to the Church do not accept an answer !AND
one cannot have equally important responses.
Definitely biased against worship, prayer, catechesis….and these being the determinants of moral behavior and instead favoring social activism and satisfying secular pursuits. No opportunity in the questions for devout youth to assert themselves.
It’s clear which cardinals weren’t advisors !
I’m promoting it among my homeschooled friends and their moms, all of whom are quite certainly “young people.” If it gets around in the Catholic homeschooling circles, this survey might very well have a bit of a slant towards tradition.
“Who or what is God to you? Check all that apply:
1. Mother
–
–
–
12 (last). Father
?
As long as you identify as young, who are they to judge?
Yay, another synod, with Baldisseri coordinating it, again! Woo hoo! What could possibly go wrong? I’m now too old, but I wonder what would happen if youth would actually, respectfully, express their frustration for the devastation of our liturgical heritage/the state of impoverishment concerning the Sacred Liturgy worldwide? Something tells me that we are not the kind of Catholic that Baldisseri et al. is wanting to walk with, and “accompany.”
Dang! Just missed the age cutoff. Although maybe not since Nan has a point?
What, no Latin edition?
If they’re walking together, I guess that would make them Fellow Travellers.
I took the English version, and I am 29 years old. At the end they provided me with a confirmation page and a way to keep up with the results when they are announced.
Keep in mind, the Dioceses are each conducting their own surveys.
There were some strange wording of answers, like “the Church should defend life from birth…”
I needed a hearty laugh and my GOODNESS taking this survey was quite entertaining. I especially enjoyed theentire page of the survey dedicated to how I use/think of social media as well as the question about types of political action I’ve participated in which included “Flashmob” as an option.
What a nightmare. A synod about finding jobs, respecting the various “lifestyles” of the world’s youth, and helping youth achieve “self-realization”, among other ridiculous banalities.
Seems like those that fall into that 55-65 category are maybe exactly who they are targeting. After all it is that age range that seem so attached to the “innovations” that accompanied Vatican II.
Lets pray traditional groups do flood the survey.
Born in 61, I guess I can take the survey. I don’t think they would like what I have to say though.
Father Z:
Would a Chicago-style, “vote early, vote often, vote even if you’re dead” approach to this survey be a venial or mortal sin?
#AskingForAFriend
[Who am I to judge?]
mike hurcum writes
face it folks those in a state of grace are eternally young. Since there is not a priest in the west who can guarantee that more than 20% of their parishioners use the sacrament of confession every two weeks, we can surmise most of us are old and have died young spiritually. I personally therefore can think of it as and can have a problem with, who is behind Vox Populi in the Catholic Church of the unconfessed. Not the Paraclete who should live in our mind and soul. The Church, by the way, in her rubrics on indulgences, coming from her ancient experiences says we cannot go more that two weeks with serious sin. For those who would argue this fact note we cannot receive a plenary Indulgence outside of the time expressed as an octave around the petition we make to obtain this wonderful indulgence. I challenged Cardinal Ratzinger on the fact that if we are not in a state of Grace and I believe many of those who claim peace of heart are not their opinions are not worth listening to, In fact if any Catholic is not in constant spiritual warfare internally then they are not grace filled. I give this as my reason for believe the Devil is a lazy spirit once he has you he does not bother you and lets one’s fallen nature do his work. I wrote to the local ordinal and asked if instead of worrying about financial records the priest should keep and publish how many confess their sins to him weekly. You will all agree I wasted my efforts and paper to write. I am not easily understood at times because of my dyslexia so you may father want to explain the meaning of octaves in respect of receiving plenary indulgences especially in the light of first Fridays many I am sure are not in the right state to receive the Church’s promise of the guaranteed reward of not dying without the last rites
Thank you, Father Z. Having qualified under the “born in 1950 or later”, I have completed and submitted my survey.
Why do I do this to myself?
Took the survey.
The second part to this question bothers me because you can only enter a numeric value.
Do you want to have (other) children? Yes / No.
* How many (including those you already have)? * Why can’t I just write How ever many God chooses to send me! Why am I forced to put a number on it? Doesn’t putting a limit on how many children God sends put you at odds with God’s Plan? Maybe I should have entered 99.
What’s their point of this question: Have you ever participated in one of the following initiatives?
Petitions / gathering of signatures
Promotional campaign on the social network
Pressure groups on institutions <=== Are you afraid?
Demonstrations in squares, marches, sit-ins
Flashmob
TweetStorm
Other similar initiatives
The rest of the questions are all about social networking. Great. So they are going to have a meeting about how to reach out to young people mainly via social network? How about you get out there and walk the streets? Show yourself in the sun and walk the walk. Talk about the Lives of the Saints, Our Lady's requests? Stop over thinking it. Sorry, sorry. I'm just so fed up with this. It's not that hard. What did St. John Bosco do to reach out to the youth? I hope they choose him as their patron for this gathering.
“Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. I fudged my age by a year or so on a survey.”
I took the survey, as I am under 67. Father Z, could you make this an “action item” and we can stack the deck?
ajf1984,
The same thing happened to me, and I’m within the 16-29 age limit, so it must not be the age.
I just completed the survey, which seems to be a pointless and boring sociological survey of little value.
The question on why someone doesn’t have children considers factors such as age, economic situation, work and living conditions. But it fails to even give as an option that the reason could be that one isn’t married!
Why don’t the bishops focus on presenting the gospel of Jesus Christ instead of this tomfoolery?
On the questions about the importance of the environment and the Church taking care of the environment the only answer it would let me put with 5 out of 5 for most important.
@Elizabeth M
“Do you want to have (other) children? Yes / No.”
You have to ponder wisely which number of children you will give to this survey, because you take a risk being classified as “breeding like rabbits”.
Since Francis was elevated to the papacy “breeding like rabbits” is a serious sin you should accuse at soonest in confession.
I’m with the sitter in the back pew. Few of the questions seemed relevant to those things that are within the competency of the Church, like theology, catechesis, moral/spiritual/religious formation. I suppose some things might fit under human formation, but human formation detached from those other items is worse than useless.
In any event, all of these items are miles away from what many believe to be the real, pre-determined purpose of the Synod — just like all of the many and huge problems existing in marriage and family ended up being essentially irrelevant and a waste of time given the end result of the last Synod — the suspected purpose of the upcoming Synod being abandoning the gift of priestly celibacy.
There was only one time in Sacred Scripture where a public opinion poll was taken to influence the course of Christian history, and the verdict of that poll was “CRUCIFY HIM!”
I did the survey adjusting things to where I was a few years ago.
It seems to me that the survey isn’t designed to produce hard data. The questions are a bit random and not focused, save for a lengthy section on social media which was both a bit out of date for how young people use social media, a bit geared too much towards social media as a means of fomenting social justice and way too much “first world problems”.
Some of the questions are also not thought through…several times NA needs to be included as an answer.
In general, the survey isn’t going to produce a data set that tells one the concerns of young people. It will produce a dataset that you can use to promote social justice types of agenda though. Dollars to doughnuts a low % of people responding that they view God as “Mother” is going to be taken as a concern that the Church isn’t expressing feminism correctly and that there will be a mandate to speak of the feminine mystique of God in certain diocese around the world.
In general though, the question “How do we reach the youth?” is often something that frustrates youth to no end because the existence of the question is the problem — you are not listening to the youth and you do not understand them. If you have to ask, you better do some soul searching.
Elizabeth M mentions St John Bosco. I have read today that his brain (or part thereof) which was stolen has been found – in a teapot.
How so discriminatory against my elder sister, born in 1949…
The theme of “discerning vocation” makes me wonder if one of the pre-determined outcomes may perhaps be female ordinations to the deaconate…
And how refreshing that only two options for identifying your sex were offered!
I got half way through and had to quit. Some of the questions just made no sense, or were so badly written that I couldn’t give an honest answer. “Best age for a woman to have a child”? Really? “Best age to leave home”? And an option from 1 to 90?? The questionnaire said at one point “you have indicated that you are still in the family home” which I had NOT. And the options for state of life – are young religious ‘single’?
I took the survey and the oddities on it were not unnoticed by myself or those on what is generally called “Catholic Twitter”. “Not being in wedlock” or “infertile” for not having children not as options, weird language in the English version (I assumed was just bad Google Translating), asking how many children I (married and with some already) would like to have but only able to put in a number, “life from birth” (maybe this is better in Italian), and others.
I will fill the survey out again (not submitting, that’s dishonest) to take screen grabs of the odd things and write my bishop about some of the problems. I don’t know if he is attending the Synod, but I am sure someone from our national conference will be. I think other people should do this as well.
[Good idea. Those might be interesting for blogs as well, and discussion thereafter.]
Oh. As I go through, they call a rural town as a place with less than 50,000 people. In Alberta, that is a very large place. My town is 900 people and the bigger town nearby is 6000, the nearest metro area ~45 minute drive away is only just 1 million. Very different than 50,000.
I took the survey (well, I was 25 at some point in my life, right?). I found it very… shallow, it almost wasn’t Catholic
There were a lot of questions about interactions with people and social media. I did at the end give a standing ovation for the Old Rite.
As somebody that discerns a religious vocation I had a hard time choosing the reason why I do not want children. I didn’t see an option for religious vocation. There were not a lot of questions about religious life. Funny for a synod for youth and vocations.
I also put in the box for extra comments that the Synod should consider the growing interest in the Extraordinary Form among the youth, and that priests should exhort the youth to GO TO CONFESSION!
If anybody takes the survey I recommend they do the dame. If many survey takers mention the Extraordinary Form and youth the syod might bring it up. Please use the term Extraordinary Form, I’m not sure those guys in the Vatican know all the traddy nicknames for the TLM.
In order to have anything like a meaningful survey, one has to choose a consistent population to sample. What they have, here, is a mishmash of cross-generational attitudes with no consistency, whatever. Young girls transplanted from 2017 to 1950 would, no doubt, be immediately arrested for violating any number of obscenity laws, just based on the way they are dressed and speak, which, of course, hardly bothers the kids from 2017. Back in the 1950’s, Mass attendance was [I am estimating on these numbers, since I’m too lazy to get the exact figures, but from my reading of history, they are pretty close, I think] 90% on Sundays, pre-marital sex was at about 10%, divorce was at 3%, and men holding doors open for women was at 90%. Back then, most kids barely knew about television and social networking was the local club house. Today, most kids have never even met in person half of the people they call, “friends,” on Facebook. In 1950, a girl was considered virtuous if she waited until marriage to have sex and she was taught the facts of life at home (boys, not so much). Today, girls are exposed to the facts of life in steamy Young Adult novels and consider anyone who waits to have sex until marriage to be psychologically defective.
My point is that what children have grown up with has shown the greatest speed of transition from one generation to the next of any cultural change in the history of man. I, sincerely, hope that they will segregate the data into various time periods, so that they can get a longitudinal measure of how attitudes have changed over the years. In other words, I want transparency. I want to see how the data is used, otherwise, why should I have any confidence in their conclusions? In science, we are finding, more and more, that reproducibility of experimental results, the hallmark of good experimental science, depends on transparency and sharing data. I hope they do that, here.
The Chicken
[After our experience of the rigging of the last Synod (“walking together”) I don’t have any confidence in the use of the survey. However, if they report that there were, say, 10K responses and we have via the blogs etc. polls that 1K young people inclined toward the TLM mentioned the TLM, that would be interesting.]
“Have another bash at the form…Surely you knew number four!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPFQxXxDv6k
Here’s how my youth survey might begin:
1. Should the Pope and bishops of the world unambiguously consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, as She explicitly requested?
i. What’s “consecration” and how physically painful is it? Who’s “Russia” and what did he or she do wrong to deserve this “consecration” thing?
ii. Wasn’t it all about a bunch of ignorant shepherd kids back in the day? What’s it got to do with me?
iii. Yes. Now. Right now. Even now, with a heap of prayer and sacrifice from all of us, it may not be too late.
2. Should the Pope release the entirety of the Third Secret of Fatima, if, any is still being withheld or distorted?
i. It’s been released! All the wonderful men in the Vatican have told us so and, you know, their story really sticks together. I trust them. What have they to hide? I don’t hate Vatican II !!!
ii. Of course he should. If God told him to, who is he to argue?
3. As a student how would you rate your Religious Education?
i. Without substance in any direction. By the way, I’m not Catholic any more, and neither are most of my classmates.
ii. Distinctly of the liberal variety. By the way, I’m not Catholic any more, and neither are most of my classmates.
iii. Limping along in a vaguely Catholic direction. By the way, I’m not Catholic any more, and neither are most of my classmates.
iv. Pretty much in line with the Catechism, but in a vaguely defensive way. By the way, I’m just hanging on to my faith. I need more.
v. Joyfully orthodox, intellectually rigorous, morally and spiritually uplifting. As a fervent Catholic, I’m so thankful of what my school gave me.
4. How about school liturgies?
i. Don’t go there, I feel sick just thinking about the clowns and those creepy giant puppets.
ii. What school liturgies? Oh, you mean those things when we sat around in bean bags and mostly nodded off to sleep while one of the staff rambled on about “structures of oppression”?
iii. Nothing different from our local Cathedral – just boring and ‘safe’ with music inspired by “The Brady Bunch”.
iv. We had sung E.F. Mass every day at 8.00 am for any student who wished to attend, and on major feasts, mass at 10.00 am for the whole school, with confessions readily available before and during.
etc …
While I’m sure most of the questions can be twisted to all sorts of ends, the immigration/emigration question was the most blatant in my opinion: what are your thoughts on leaving behind the place where you were born and going to live somewhere else?
Only two options:
Primarily an opportunity for a better life.
Primarily a necessity for someone without a future.
I’ve said before, “synod” is just greek for “congress”.
[No no… as we were told incessantly during the ordeal of the last two Synods, it’s “walking together”.]
These theologically progressive bishops are in absolute violation of Scripture in terms of religious candor. Matthew 5:37 specifically declares, “[l]et your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.” (NKJV)
I am no theologian or interpretor of Scripture, but the verse states that any other answer besides a lucid “yes” or “no” is from the evil one, the Devil, Satan, and all other related nicknames for primordial malevolence. Their indirect, round about words and operations are, very potentially, from the evil one.
They should simply reveal their genuine intentions and inner aspitations before the people and the Church.
The 56 in my name refers to my birth year. It was included in the drop down so hey, I took the survey as well. At the end I was quite upfront about it too. I may not be 16 to 29 chronologically (though as my mother points out when I am telling her to drop to 30 mph from 40, “I had to get t0 30 first in order to get here!”), but I have a vested interest in young people having raised three (who all just beat that ‘cutoff’) and now raising two grandchildren of 4 and 6. I said that by Heaven I had seen what had happened to my generation and my children’s generation, and that I wanted to see my grandchildren and future generations get real authentic Catholic teaching and not the twisted and tweaked garbage so often presented today.
The question of how many children to say we desire also crossed my mind as regards the “rabbits/rigid” categorization (“language” I don’t find “helpful” about my “lifestyle choices”) and how that might assign relative weights to responses. I would like to have access to the data when the report is in to see the correlation of some of these.
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I took the survey (it popped up in my Facebook feed through a local Catholic youth group) and was dismayed by the quality of the questions. Like posters above have said – defense of life from *birth*?? Excluding the possibility that I don’t have children because I’m unmarried? I informed them in my “extra notes” section that the given reasons were as yet irrelevant… and why.
Overall, the survey seems designed from a heterodox point of view, and whoever wrote it is definitely trying to elicit that kind of response. The attempts at neutrality are so poor that it’s difficult for an orthodox person to make their viewpoints known at all. I did my best to offset it, but just that one of the short answer questions is for “positive experience of the Church accompanying young people in choices that are valuable and fulfilling for them”… or whatever word salad they used…makes my eyebrows go up. Lots of talk about what we find important and fulfilling and warm-and-fuzzy; very little about our spiritual needs.
(My “positive experience” anecdote was about a young(er) relative making the most valuable and fulfilling choice possible, to leave an invalid marriage and return to the Faith, due to the support and love of us faithful Catholics who accompanied her AS LEADERS. 0:-) I also wrote a few liberal-buzzword-filled paragraphs about how grateful I am for the traditions and wisdom of Holy Mother Church. Hagan lio, right?)