In case someone didn’t see it.
From Messa in Latino… an Italian site:
Da Facebook del 7 gennaio scorso.
Interpret this for me?
What Does the Oppressor Really Say?
How about:
Please note that in the Diocese of Cheyenne NOVUS ORDO Mass may be celebrated in our parish churches.
Good news, right? In Cheyenne there is an attempt to adhere to the universal law of the Church! Novus Ordo in Latin is how the Novus Ordo ought to be, after all.
That’s what it means, right?
Or is it that the person who wrote this has a poor command of the English language and doesn’t know how to write a clear act of oppression?
ALWAYS REMEMBER: While they might hate Mass in any form, their hatred for the TLM is really about hatred of the people who desire it. They don’t like the people.
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What happens if one priest disobeys? Or twenty? Or a hundred?
Seems to me that someone should correct the types, i.e.
Cheyenne, N.O., Latin, Mass may be celebrated…
So it really is letting visiting priests know that they can (should) do the Mass in Latin.
I’ve heard of many people (like me) who grew up on the NO Mass but then went predominantly to the TLM as a free choice.
I’ve never heard of the opposite happening, i.e., someone who predominantly assisted at the TLM who later chose NO Masses predominantly (at least voluntarily, when the Mass option is there).
Does it happen?
Accorsing to Wikipedia, Bishop Biegler’s motto is “Shepherd in Compassion”.
Why isn’t he charitable enough to allow the Novus Ordo (NO) in the vernacular? HE MUST HATE VATICAN II!
That’s not compassion!
(Lest anyone take me seriously, this post is called “satire”).
I think it’s hilarious. Honestly I read it elsewhere as the NO meant no, not allowed. But of course to see it as NO=Novus Ordo is so very freeing. Were I a visiting priest who loves tradition, that’s how I would choose to interpret it. This parish priest may have a great sense of humor.
So…. No Mass at all?
Because both Novus Ordo and Vetus Ordo are part of the Roman Church, i.e. Latin. So Latin Mass I’ve always understood to be both New and Old. (Yes, I get what the sign implies, but it’s petty, stupid, and a bit of tosspottery (good luck ‘Mericans in figuring out that bit of Blighty slang)).
What a bunch of jobsworths. Souls and the Kingdom of God are far from minds, I feel.
Arse.
Not sure if this level of cursing gets past the moderator. I’ll gladly amend. But what a pile of £&) _?!??? **#%!!!!
Let the Novus Ordo Latin Masses be celebrated in abundance by visiting priests!
A friend of mine (now sadly deceased) was actively involved in trad circles in England for years. He quipped that the traditional Mass was “the Mass you love with the people you hate”
This does speak of a certain English sense of humour. It does however remind me that, yes, those in power do hate us. We can’t forget how good a job we do of hating each other though!
I’ve never heard of the opposite happening, i.e., someone who predominantly assisted at the TLM who later chose NO Masses predominantly (at least voluntarily, when the Mass option is there).
Does it happen?
Yes. I am one of those people. I got tired of being viewed as an occasion of sin for men and a scandal to internet traditionalists if they saw me, a woman with a very deep resonant contralto voice (think baritone and tenor range) singing the chant propers with the men in the schola, as I had done for 5 years prior with support from our priests and our choir director as well as the men in the schola. Something happened that took my blinders off to the not so good part of Traditionalists at my community, at the same time we got a new pastor at the English Mass who was traditionally minded and solidly orthodox, so I started attending the English Mass. I don’t leave Mass miserable and embittered anymore.
“No Latin Mass may be celebrated in our parish churches”
They obviously hate Vatican II, as in “WDVIIRS” (what did Vatican II really say?”)
Cornelius: “I’ve never heard of the opposite happening, i.e., someone who predominantly assisted at the TLM who later chose NO Masses predominantly”
Well, that’s exactly what happened from 1970 onwards for the vast majority of us, so…
To clarify: not that we “chose” it, as such, but there was no option.
Two words for their ilk: Just. Leave.
@JamesM (et al.)
“the Mass you love with the people you hate”
Dogs who have been savagely beaten in the past, even if they are rehabilitated, tend to behave strangely. Why should we expect a band of spiritually abused people to instantly become normal? Especially when they have almost no idea what they are doing?
Most of my adult life has been an attempt to find, aquire, and glue back together elements both fundamental and frivolous of western civilization in an attempt to have a real, cohesive Catholic culture to live and pass on to my children. It’s very tiring. And it’s not like we’re getting any help from Church and State. From Quixotic to psychotic, and mostly in between, many traditionalists are struggling to do, roughly, something akin to my self described “journey of restorationism.”
We should cut each other some slack. Actually, a lot of slack.
The sign is properly taped to a 1970’s Formica counter in dis-repair.
Makes sense.
How gay of them to do so. Weak, soft, bitter gay men. I’m no scholar, but I know a gay when I see one, and this is a directive from a gay.
No Latin Mass. So I guess it would be OK to have a Byzantine Divine Liturgy in Church Slavonic. Just saying.
This is why a number of the faithful in Wyoming travel for miles and hours to the TLM.
@APX
sorry that happened to you
And thankfully you didn’t leave the Church altogether.
But respectfully you didn’t leave the TLM for the NO itself which I think the question was implying. You left because of the people at that particular place. Would you have choosen the NO over the TLM after years of attending the TLM outside of your negative experience?
To TheCavalierHatherly,
“From Quixotic to psychotic, and mostly in between, many traditionalists are struggling to do, roughly, something akin to my self described ‘journey of restorationism.’
“We should cut each other some slack. Actually, a lot of slack.”
Yes! I often describe this journey not so much as tilting at windmills (quixotic), but looking for windmills to tilt at (psychotic). Like “APX”, there was a time when I left every Mass “miserable and embittered,” until I accepted the fact that any collection of people in any walk of life can have some pretty nasty and cowardly hypocrites among them. Once I made peace with that, the Mass once again took its proper place for me.
You left because of the people at that particular place. Would you have choosen the NO over the TLM after years of attending the TLM outside of your negative experience?
It seems to be a common thread at Latin Mass Communities. The problem isn’t the Mass, but rather the people and the priests who forget that we have to be Catholics in the current year, not 1962. We now have a generation of young men who have completely grown up in the Latin Mass who were home schooled, have no work experience in a place of employment, and spent their childhood only socializing with other boys, and have grown up being told that it’s the responsibility of women to dress modestly in order to keep them from choosing to lust after them, and that they are too weak to control their thoughts. Good luck to them trying to hold a job in the real world and not get fired for sex discrimination and sexual harassment.
@APX
Your experience describes what the Fish Eaters website calls “Toxic Trads”. I’m sorry for your negative experiences.
Just so you know we are far from all being like that, I will share something I wouldn’t otherwise. There is a gentleman who I occasionally see at my SSPX chapel who has long dreadlocks and I believe he sometimes sings in the choir.
I never understood dreadlocks myself, but I still follow my personal rule: I always assume the person next to me in the pew is likely holier than I.
And I’m yet to hear a single person bash this man. Nor would I condone any snickery remarks. He could well be closer to saintly than any of us.
I’m surprised that the Ordinary of a diocese has the authority to ban Novus Ordo Mass being said in Latin. Has he really got that power? I can’t understand why a bishop would object to Mass being said in what was for many centuries THE language of the entire Western Church. Is the bishop going ultra vires?
Doesn’t the Latin mass mean the mass of the Latin rite, the largest of the 19 or 23 rites in the Catholic Church? In that case, must mass in that diocese be only in, say, a Byzantine or Syriac rite, probably in Old Church Slavonic? Or are Greek and Syriac also language options?
I’ve never heard of the opposite happening, i.e., someone who predominantly assisted at the TLM who later chose NO Masses predominantly (at least voluntarily, when the Mass option is there).
Does it happen?
After my husband died, my children and I were no longer welcome by parishioners at our FSSP parish, particularly after it was clear that I was in no hurry to remarry. In addition, I could not afford the $1200.00 a year fee for my sons to serve at the altar. [ummm… WHAT?!?]
We still assisted there occasionally, but we primarily assisted at the Cathedral since it offered the least-irreverent Mass I could find.
Now, I am too ill to assist at Mass in person, so we watch a TLM online.
I am a longtime reader—but a first-time poster—so please excuse any errors.
probably in Old Church Slavonic?
There is an approved 1962 Roman Missal in Church Slavonic. There are priests from the FSSP who can offer Mass in the EF in Church Slavonic.
Would it be correct, then, to say that Modernism (the NO Latin Mass parish) cannot grant that the past has any value, while Restorationism (the “toxic trad” parish) cannot concede that the past has any imperfections? Might each reflect heresy in its way? How does one pass through the eye of the needle?
About going back to the Novus Ordo:
Like two other women who commented I have a lady friend who like myself is a revert. She prefers to go to a reverent Mass and she does attend a decent Novus Ordo parish that just happens to be no more than a 20 minute commute from her residence. I have gone to Mass there with her and it is one parish that gives the option to use the altar rail and receive communion on the tongue from a priest.
Anyway during the Wuhan Devil lockdowns my lady friend began attending an SSPX chapel. After a few months she stopped attending there because she said some of the men there were a little weird and a some in the congregation criticized her outfits, sometimes saying her dresses were too short (she was not wearing miniskirts like the ones that were in style in the 1980s – I am not dead). Like many women of all ages, she does wear some sundresses on a 90 degree summer day and will put on a sweater when entering Mass for modest reasons – I think most women can figure out what I am saying.
Hwriggles4,
Just for comparison reasons – The dress code at my Diocesan Latin Mass Parish concerning lady’s dress or skirt length is that the knees should still be covered when sitting.
Ah, yes, our bishop – gotta love him. This is the same man who told those of us who wouldn’t wear masks during COVID craziness that we were pro-choice because we were killing people.
It’s funny that this bishop is so opposed to Latin but took the time to bring a contingent of Spanish speakers to our parish where everyone speaks English so that he could have a bilingual Mass, including a woman who simultaneously translated his English sermon into Spanish. I guess there are no Spanish speaking men in the diocese so it couldn’t possibly have been pushing the envelope.
So we can have Spanish at our Masses but not Latin. Even members of his family don’t understand him. Must have been the woke water in the seminary.
The bishop’s sermon also pointed out that we need to lower the threshold so that more people can join us without having to deal with barriers. My husband was kind enough to point out to him that there are no more thresholds except for those who want a traditional Latin Mass and the barriers for them are getting higher and higher.
I pray in my morning offering, in my Rosaries, at Mass, and at night that he have a happy and holy death. It’s the best thing I can think of to ask for him.
Of course, there’s always the Ordinariate Missal …
And this is why God made sure I’m a woman, because if I’d become a priest, I would’ve read that as, “Alrighty, one NO in Church Slavonic, coming right up!”
We should cut each other some slack. Actually, a lot of slack.
I couldn’t agree more on the principle (and nicely phrased and argued for, dear TheCavalierHatherly); and I try to (and I think generally succeed in) applying that to my judgment.
I just note that not judging people for their objective faults, because they have been provoked, is one thing, and feeling relaxed around them is quite another. – Though I can’t complain about my own FSSP vicariate; nor for that matter about the (occasionally-known) SSPX chapel folk. (The latter are, if anything, more relaxed. After all, they probably bother less with hierarchs that do not like them.)
—
As for going back to the NO, I haven’t done that obviously, but I could imagine it for myself under circumstances, not even all of them including a hostile co-parishionership.
I do not think I would change my theoretical conviction that the Old Rite is objectively better; but then steak is better than chicken-nuggets too.
So, the parish our FSSP vicariate is a vicariate of really is thoroughly fine. I go there sometimes even if it means missing the Sunday Old-Rite High Mass; go on purpose to its patronal-feast even if there’s an Old Rite Mass at the same time; and what if – it is at least not altogether in the realm of impossibility – I should one day be married and the lady in question would be a Catholic from a likewise devoutly Catholic NO parish? You get the idea.