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Polish Priest Fined for Comparing Abortion to Holocaust
Did you see this?
Here is a very brief excerpt:
Polish Priest Fined for Comparing Abortion to Holocaust
By Patrick B. Craine
KATOWICE, Poland, September 23, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In a ruling that Church leaders are calling a serious infringement of freedom of speech, a Polish judge has accused the Archdiocese of Katowice and the priest-editor of their Catholic weekly newspaper of comparing a woman who sought an abortion to the Nazis, and has ordered them to publish a court-dictated apology.
Judge Ewa Solecka, further, fined the Gosc Niedzielny (Sunday Visitor) paper $11,000, objecting to comments from editor-in-chief Fr. Marek Gancarczyk that she deemed offensive, such as his statement that in seeking to get an abortion, the woman sought to ‘kill’ her child.ng Abortion is "Killing"
It will happen here.
Comment by Supertradmom — 26 September 2009 @ 1:08 pmHere (Canuckistan) too.
Comment by Hidden One — 26 September 2009 @ 1:23 pmNothing can be allowed to eclipsed, even partially, the significance or uniqueness of “The Holocaust.” Anyone else killed by the Nazis will only be described as “others.” Those killed by communist regimes will not be mentioned nor will the wiping out of the Church in the USSR and her bishops.
Comment by Tom Ryan — 26 September 2009 @ 2:10 pmI’m in the middle of this. It’s a war about freedom of speech. Fami-nazist are trying to stop catholics from naming abortion what it is – killing and naming abortionist a murderer.
Comment by Bogna — 26 September 2009 @ 2:24 pmBecause of it up to now 1223 people have signed the letter of support for Fr. Gancarczyk. (Look here for the list: http://fronda.pl/wszyscy_jestesmy_ksiedzem_gancarczykiem_sygnatariusze
You can add your voice by sending e-mail, titled “wolnosc” (freedom) to info@fronda.pl, stating your name and surname, occupation (and country)
Comment by Bogna — 26 September 2009 @ 2:25 pmIf I find Fr. Marek Gancarczyk’s Paypal button, I’ll be clicking on it!
Comment by Suzanne Sadler — 26 September 2009 @ 4:07 pmYes. This isn’t at all about protecting the uniqueness of the Holocaust; it’s about saying narsty things about abortion.
In fact, it’s ten to one that the judge who ruled this way also hates all things Jewish and all things Israeli. But any stick to beat an anti-abortionist.
Comment by Suburbanbanshee — 26 September 2009 @ 7:09 pmWhile I STRONGLY disagree with the court’s decision, I find the priest’s comment disgusting and offensive to those who did suffer and die in the REAL Holocaust. The priest should apologize because it is the correct thing to do – not because he has been ordered by the court.
Comment by kester — 26 September 2009 @ 8:54 pmKester,
You find the Priest’s comments “Disgusting and Offensive”? Just what do you think 49 million deaths are since Roe vs Wade? Its called genocide, and I am being kind here in my description of you, “Idiot”. Wake up man
Comment by Al — 26 September 2009 @ 8:57 pmNobody owns the word holocaust or genocide. Looks like another Jewish tap dance if you ask me.
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 9:01 pmAl,
You are the “idiot” here. Perhaps you should “wake up man”. This is no Holocaust. This does not come close to comparison to what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany.
Comment by kester — 26 September 2009 @ 9:04 pmDear Kester the racist,
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 9:06 pmAbortion is the worst form execution there is. LIVE WITH IT!
romancrusader,
How do you figure I am a racist? You are the one with the anti-Jewish posts—remember, Jesus was a Jew!
Comment by kester — 26 September 2009 @ 9:08 pmHow many unborn children have been killed?
Comment by Fr. John Mary — 26 September 2009 @ 9:08 pmHow long has this horrible, “abominable”(cf. Vatican II) action been allowed to continue?
I’m sorry, but if you cannot see the injustice and indifference of those who should be the protectors of all human life, then we are headed for destruction.
I realize that. But I don’t think the Jewish people want to be blamed for interferring in Catholic Church affairs.
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 9:09 pmromancrusader,
What does that have to do with anything?? Again, how am I a racist?
Comment by kester — 26 September 2009 @ 9:11 pmyou’re a racist because you don’t think abortion is comparable to the holocaust. as i say before, those who don’t think abortion is comparable to the holocaust are racists themselves.
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 9:13 pmDear Al and Kester-
I don’t think you understand why we compare our society to the unadulterated evil of the Nazi regime. I understand that the Nazis are guilty of evil genocidal acts or, to be precise intrinsically evil genocidal acts. Yes, unimaginable evils took place and they can’t be down played. I understand that the name “Nazi” or “Hitler” invokes an emotional response from, who we Catholics call our “elder brothers in faith”, the Jews. For the modern Jew there is an existential understanding of The Shoah (The Holocaust). I know that time has not past by long enough to escape the fear and pain of what happened in Europe from 1933-1945.
Please indulge me and follow my train of thought. In the Book of Exodus, some 3,000 of the Israelites committed idolatry on the Plains of Sinai. I know you know the story. What happened? They made unto themselves a “golden calf” and worshiped it. Who or what was the golden calf? The golden calf was the Egyptian god “Apis.” What is Apis? Apis represents three things. First the calf was golden which is money. The young calf was fertile which is sex. Last the young strong calf was strong which is power. Do we still worship Apis (the golden calf) today? I never see people “shaming” themselves in front of the graven image of the golden calf, but I do see people worshiping sex, money and power. Sadly, the golden calf is still alive and still worshiped in modern society. He just has a new appearance.
What is my point in this biblical analogy? You don’t have to wear knee-high leather boots, wear a swastika and a brown shirt in order to subscribe to the philosophy of the Nazis. We can look at history and see the horrors of The Shoah; in retrospect we can read the hate filled psychotic ramblings of Mein Kampf and see prophecy of things to come for the Jewish people and Europe. However, this is all too easy to look at it in the vacuum of modern history. My question is this: what are the philosophical presumptions that laid the foundation of this history? What are the philosophical foundations and undertones of Mein Kampf? This is where I think you do not understand the claim I am attempting to make or see the evil at hand.
We need to ask this question, what are the philosophical presumptions that lead to The Shoah? It is the belief that some human persons are better then others. Better yet, some human being are not worthy of life (Lebensunwertes Leben). Yes, the Nazis so-called “final solution” was ethnically based. However, had they succeed the Jews would not be the resting point of their evil, only the beginning. What do I mean? As you know, the Nazi regime conducted medical experiments on human beings. Why? To them some human persons were not worthy of life. They believed that some people were expendable.
It followed the misguided moral ethos called “proportionalism.” Meaning, you can do a lesser evil for the greater good. I know the Nazis were evil; everyone with half a brain thinks the Nazis are evil. However, they did not view themselves as evil. They thought they were helping humanity. This point cannot be understated. As Isaiah said: “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who change darkness into light, and light into darkness, who change bitter into sweet, and sweet into bitter!” (Isaiah 5:20).
This is my point, a person does not have to wear a brown shirt or wear a swastika to be a Nazi. They don’t even have to be a fascist or a member of the German National Socialist Party. You can repeat the horrors of their evil atrocities without sporting them emblem. Like Apis, the golden clad of the plain of Saini, this evil has just changed its form. Yes, 6 million Jews have lost their lives in The Shoah; This was an intrinsic evil. Just as evil is the killing of millions upon million who have lost their lives through the philosophy (or marketing strategy) that a child is “just a choice;” The belief that some life is “not worthy of life.” The belief that it is OK to destroy human lives in its embryonic form because a greater good “will be” discovered in “its” death.
The belief that human life is not human life when it is developing is scientifically sophomoric and pedestrian; not to mention intellectually naive and dishonest. What is the nexus? The Jews were likewise viewed as “non-human” and unworthy of dignity. This philosophical presumption is made about the unborn, the mentally retarded, terminally ill and elderly in today’s modern, advanced and civilized society. I might add, the Nazis also believed that end of its life, human life was a drain on the rest of society. The elderly, the terminally ill, mentally ill, to them, were a waste of resources. That belief is still alive today. The Shoah is not limited to the Jewish experience; The Shoah is not only a historical occurrence but also a modern philosophy that is alive and well today.
Comment by mdillon — 26 September 2009 @ 9:13 pmOH! kester go sit….......it’s MURDER, what the Nazis did to the Jews, and what has been going on for the last 36 years of legalized abortion, MURDER, they are both Holocaust’s.
Comment by ssoldie — 26 September 2009 @ 9:25 pmHolocaust: ~12 million dead.
Abortion, US alone: 45+ million dead.
It’s the Holocaust that doesn’t compare to abortion, not the other way around.
Comment by Hidden One — 26 September 2009 @ 10:28 pmWhat I find offensive is the call for this priest apologize. One must never apologize for speaking the truth.
Comment by TomB — 26 September 2009 @ 10:50 pmmdillion, et.al,
You are missing the point. The founding fathers of our Church did not recognize the beginning of life with conception. This is our Theology. There is no valid comparison here.
Comment by kester — 26 September 2009 @ 10:55 pm“You are missing the point. The founding fathers of our Church did not recognize the beginning of life with conception. This is our Theology. There is no valid comparison here.”
Do you care to back that statement up? You’ve got no proof of this.
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 10:59 pmromancrusader,
The proof is in their writings. Go to the library and educate yourself. You have no proof I’m wrong.
Comment by kester — 26 September 2009 @ 11:02 pmThat’s heresy. The Church defines life as beginning with conception. Read the catechism again.
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 11:06 pmromancrusader,
Here is one to get you started. St. Augustine said life begins at three months. He is not the only one, do your homework before you mouth off.
Comment by kester — 26 September 2009 @ 11:07 pmKester,
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 11:13 pmThis is not Catholic teaching and you know this. We know life begins at conception because of science. That’s why. Next time, do your homework. I don’t need to go to the Church fathers nor the Catholic Church to realize that life begins at conception.
Kester,
Here’s some stuff to help you. I would suggest that you study human embryology before you attack pro-life positions.
http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/irv/irv_51iranabortionembyro.html
http://www.all.org/abac/aq0203.htm
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 11:16 pmromancursader,
That’s a piss poor answer. You seem to what it both ways. So sorry, it does not work like that. If you do not need or have faith in the teachings of the Church fathers, perhaps you are the one guilty of heresy.
Comment by kester — 26 September 2009 @ 11:19 pmAnd your post, is a personal insult to me. You refuse to believe, or even examine the fact that teachings—at least the Catholic teachings—are based on logic, reason and man’s ability to understand ordinary facts.
Please read the following article: When do human beings begin? ‘Scientific’ myths and scientific facts” by Professor Dianne N. Irving, M.A., Ph.D.
http://www.all.org/abac/dni003.htm
Comment by romancrusader — 26 September 2009 @ 11:25 pm@ kester
First – please do not judge without information! Fr. Gancarczyk in fact didn’t compare abortion to holocaust. He compared the judges from Strasburg who gave ms Tysiac 25 000 euro as a reward for not being allowed to abort her baby – to nazists.
So he wasn’t ‘offensive”, so you are wrong in your judgement.
Remember – you make very strong accusations without almost any information. Please do stop
The case is about freedom of speech and freedom of naming abortion what it is – a murder.
Comment by Bogna — 27 September 2009 @ 4:24 amI’ll repeat what is most important here, and what was lost in discussion with kester:
I’m in the middle of this. It’s a war about freedom of speech. Fami-nazist are trying to stop catholics from naming abortion what it is – killing and naming abortionist a murderer.
Because of it up to now 1223 people have signed the letter of support for Fr. Gancarczyk. (Look here for the list: http://fronda.pl/wszyscy_jestesmy_ksiedzem_gancarczykiem_sygnatariusze
You can add your voice by sending e-mail, titled “wolnosc” (freedom) to info@fronda.pl, stating your name and surname, occupation (and country)
Comment by Bogna — 27 September 2009 @ 4:26 amKester,
It’s wise for you to sit the rest of this one out; you’re making yourself look like a fool. The Bible itself recognizes the beginning of life at conception (see, I dunno, Jesus?), and the Church documents themselves as early as the Didache are against abortion.
Beyond that, it has nothing to do with historical church teaching; it’s basic biology that human life begins at conception and is violently ended with abortion.
This priest was not out of line. Genocide is genocide, and the Holocaust, while abominable, is not the Holiest of All Genocides.
Comment by AndyMo — 27 September 2009 @ 6:49 amKester wrote
Here is one to get you started. St. Augustine said life begins at three months. He is not the only one, do your homework before you mouth off.
.....
Ahem, cough, Kester old Man, you are aware that science has advanced since Augustine’s time.
Or do you believe that the earth is flat, too.
Comment by Grabski — 27 September 2009 @ 8:19 amKester said: St. Augustine said life begins at three months. He is not the only one, do your homework before you mouth off.
That’s good advice for you too, Kester. St. Augustine did NOT say life begins at three months. He was talking about when ensoulment takes place, not when human life begins. He and the other Fathers who speculated about delayed ensoulment did not know what we know about human biology, so their reasoning and speculation, which has never been Church doctrine, is obsolete. Anyway, even though they believed in delayed ensoulment, they still believed that abortion was a grave sin no matter how old the fetus was.
Romancrusader is still somewhat mistaken, however. The Church has not defined that human life begins at conception. She doesn’t need to: science has already proven that beyond all doubt. Neither has the Church defined that delayed ensoulment is not an acceptable opinion, even though there are no grounds in Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium, philosophy, or science to believe that ensoulment is delayed. Quite the contrary: since the Church has formally defined that the soul is the form of the body, and we now know that the human body is never at any time formless (as St. Augustine once believed, relying on a faulty Septuagint translation of Exodus), it follows that ensoulment would be immediate upon the creation of a new human organism, even as the separation of soul and body (death) would occur at the dissolution of the human organism. Nevertheless the Church has not formally defined that.
Comment by Jordanes — 27 September 2009 @ 9:05 amJordanes,
Comment by romancrusader — 27 September 2009 @ 11:44 amthat’s what i meant to say.
“Ahem, cough, Kester old Man, you are aware that science has advanced since Augustine’s time.
Or do you believe that the earth is flat, too.”
LOL! He probably thinks we evolved from apes too. Which is impossible.
Comment by romancrusader — 27 September 2009 @ 11:53 amKester seems to have studied theology with Madame Speaker Pelosi.
Comment by Dr. Eric — 27 September 2009 @ 4:14 pmPoor Kester, he tries to be an agitator but he is rather limited in his understanding of so many things.
Poor, poor Kester. Keep trying Bud! ;)
Comment by Grabski — 27 September 2009 @ 4:21 pm