My friend Fr. Gerry Murray of the Archdiocese of New York was recently on FNC. He spoke about Pres. Obama’s HHS Mandate. He did a great job explaining some key points and had a few good one liners.
You might review this for the sake of your own discussions on the topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6l_8LBUQZ0&feature=player_embedded
Fr. Z kudos to Fr. Murray!
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since Sat., 25 Nov. 2006:
He’s great on TV. Very clearly explained things in a way that even non-Catholics can understand and support. Good for him.
That was a good interview.
Well done, Fr. Murray. Simple, to the point. Hopefully it will help a wider audience to understand
what the government is attempting to do. I don’t think the administration knows or cares that this makes them look like bullies.
Wanda
Your are right-they do not care. They are way past that now.
I liked Father Murray’s comment about NRA membership. I’ve often compared this HHS contraception mandate to a law requiring employers to purchase handguns for their employees that want them. Can you fathom the outrage? It is not a perfect comparison, because a free handgun would actually be “preventative protection” for a person.
Considering that the Obamans / Dems are the ones who are supposed to be all concerned about school children, office workers, etc., not being bullied, their Obamacare cram-down tactics could be their undoing — if anyone in the opposition has the fortitude to expose their hypocrisy and hammer on it.
I’d like to see Father Murray have a discussion with Dr. Howard Dean on MSNBC. It would be good for the MSNBC audience to hear the other side of the argument.
Good for Fr Murray on this interview! “If you like your religion you can’t keep it.”
Jeanine asks why?
I can’t help but think the answer to that is……If you like your elderly, you can’t keep them.
After all, rationing is built in to Obamacare. Why waste precious tax dollars on useless old folks when it can be put to better use to knock off babies in the womb for the sake of quality of life for the young and vigorous.
Unsurprisingly silent are the Nuns on the Bus in coming forward to support the LSP. After all the LSP devote their whole life to the poor. Isn’t that the social justice that LCWR luvs? Where is their magic pen now?
Fr. Murray is seasoned, strong, traditional and clear.
I saw this interview when it originally aired. Judge Pirro’s show is very good.
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Personally I don’t think any priest should appear publicly on either FN or MSNBC because both are essentially ideologically driven and therefore partisan by nature. [B as in B. S as in S. You don’t like this because he was clear and he won his points.] Priests should not use their collar in order to advance their personal agenda, or to flaunt their party affiliation. It is quite inappropriate. It can be equated with campaigning from the pulpit. [Piffle.]
What are the rewards provided to Murray, Morris and others for in essence prostituting themselves on cable opinion networks? [You are OUT OF LINE.] What are the perks? I’m sure their personal enrichment for such extends beyond enjoying the elegant fare provided in the green room. [I have been on FNC an bunch of times in the last few years. I was not given any remuneration. During 2005, however, when John Paul II died and Benedict XVI was elected, I had a contract with FNC so that I would be exclusive with them. I was paid for that. Dignus est operarius mercede sua.]
[Your bilious comment smacks of defeat.]
Actually, most TV news shows don’t pay their guests, that I’ve ever heard. I’ve heard rumors that some shows have actually billed guests or publishing/media companies behind them, since they’re essentially providing product placement or ads for books, movies, etc.
If the TV show is begging you to come on, in order to attract viewers, then you get paid.
[Your bilious comment smacks of defeat.]
It’s often been his MO here. He’ll make wildly irresponsible comments, but then never hangs around long enough to defend his opinions.
This is the last post I will ever read by frjim. What a vile, venomous person. Only God can change a bigot like him.
Fr. Jim,
Priests should not use their collar in order to advance their personal agenda, or to flaunt their party affiliation. It is quite inappropriate. It can be equated with campaigning from the pulpit.
Then I suppose you should ask Fr. Z to remove your virtual collar and change your username to just jim4321. Unlike others, I do enjoy seeing you around here (for the most part), but I have seen you talk politics plenty of times.
Not to mention, what you describe above is not at all what Fr. Murray was doing. I would certainly hope that defending the faith and our right to practice it is every Catholic priest’s “personal agenda”. And, I didn’t hear any mention of political affiliation. That can’t be inferred just because it’s Fox News.
I always had the feeling that Fr. Murray was one of the good guys from the many times I went to 12:15 Mass at St. Vincent De Paul. I’m happy to see that he’s “out there” for a good cause.
“Dignus est operarius mercede sua.”
I figured that out with only three semesters of high school Latin.
(I just about flunked out of high school seminary due 5 straight “D’s.” I was told by the rector that I either raised my score at the end of first semester, sophomore year, or I would be history. I locked myself in a room for a week and taught myself three semesters of high school Latin using the textbook and Bennet’s. And ended up shocking the entire faculty and getting a “B.” I was thrilled to learn that I was not as dumb as I thought, I just did not know how to study! To this day the only way I can really learn something is by having to teach it.)
Yes, I am glad that you were paid for your work and had forgotten that you had been on FN once upon a time. I usually don’t make my single annual mistake so early in the calendar year.
I think back in the mid-2000’s FN still had some credibility as a news source and I did not mean to implicate the Reverend and Dear Blogmaster in my assessment.
Does anybody remember Joe Biden during the VP debate? The following statement was made by Joe Biden regarding the decision of the HHS to force virtually all employers to include sterilization and contraception, including drugs that may cause abortion, in the health insurance coverage they provide their employees:
“With regard to the assault on the Catholic Church, let me make it absolutely clear. No religious institution—Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital—none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact. That is a fact.”
Obama and his sidekicks, together with Gollum Pelosi are epic failures on every level of their lives.
Folks may want to check out this video with Joe Biden flat out lying about the HHS mandate and the Catholic Church:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koa9Tozs1e4
Contrition looks nice on you frjim. I congratulate you on your maturity. This is the price the outspoken pay for putting it out there. It’s worth it. Anyway you certainly keep things hopping around here. No matter if it happens others disagree with your opinion on a topic you always come back to Fr. Z’s. blog, and to me that is very touching. I’m glad of it. Unlike people who troll and only seem to want to make a controversial comment that doesn’t seem the case with you. It’s a wonderful thing when people can disagree and still remain friends of some kind. It’s the kind of friendship we all would probably like to have in real life but it’s very hard to find. We are all here virtual friends but friends in some way if we can disagree and still keep chatting about events and ideas, even if it does get somewhat heated at times. :)
Th eUSCCB should send Fr. Murray to every seminary, every cathedral parish in the USA for similar clear statements. Might helps some of the Obama-loving Catholic Dems to start to think. Thanks, Fr. Z., and put your article link on my blog. Good and clear.
FrJim is just another liberal lurking and stirring the pot so to speak. At least he is the same as always .
Fr. Jim:
It was most unusual for you to depart from commenting on the substance of a brother priest’s remarks to a character attack. It’s fine to dislike a news network, but to ascribe to Murray or Morris a motive of “prostituting” themselves was not at all one of your better moments. I hope you can stick with critiquing the ideas of those who make an appearance on cable news without the character missives.
Fr. Z,
Thanks for sharing this terrific interview with Fr. Murray. As a non-American who thought that Obama was the bees’ knees when he was first elected, this is a real eye-opener, even if it is a bit of a shocker over my morning coffee. (It’s not Mystic Monk, I’m afraid, but I am supporting my local coffee farmers).
Keep up the good work of enlightening us.
FrJim4321
I think back in the mid-2000?s FN still had some credibility as a news source and I did not mean to implicate the Reverend and Dear Blogmaster in my assessment.
Who or what is your news source?
Kennedy says:
As a non-American who thought that Obama was the bees’ knees when he was first elected, this is a real eye-opener, even if it is a bit of a shocker over my morning coffee.
A German friend told me that his children thought Obama was already the President when he visited Germany.
The interest by Europeans in who is the US President is understandable, but their estimation of the resident of the White House is puzzling. European nations tend to favor the Parliamentary system, in which the Prime Minister is mostly considered just to be someone who is employed to do a job.
And yet with the US Presidency that pragmatic approach often seems to be replaced by hero worship. Perhaps it’s the longing for a philosopher-king , a residue of European monarchical govt. Or perhaps it’s because in Europe the voice of the sentimental left is louder than in the US (excepting cultural issues). Having spent about 11 years in Europe, I have always been stunned that so many Euros bought into Marxism. For all the American blemishes, Karl Marx was never really taken seriously.
This was an excellent interview by Fr. Murray. God bless him. It would be great to see him matched up against one of the mandate’s supporters, with each side given a fair hearing.
I don’t watch Fox News or MSNBC, except when people send me specific reason to do so, or I happen to be travelling, and have a night in a hotel room.
I’m pleased to see Fr. Murray make such a good showing, since others don’t come across as well, even if they teach the same thing. (I’m remembering the tape of Cardinal Dolan before the Al Smith dinner).
That said, next to his interviewer, Father Murray looks positively erudite! The sad part is that she does this for a living, and still doesn’t seem to have any idea what to say. Can anyone who has appeared on (or produced) a similar medium shed light on her incompetence? I had two impressions
1) “I’ve got to remember the right buzzwords in my questions”
2) “I hope Google translator gets this right”
For this reason, alone, I find a small part of Fr. Jim’s critique to be true.
And remember… more than HALF of so called Catholics supported President Obama. More than HALF. Apparently they LOVE Obama’s disregard of babies, hatred of traditional marriage, hatred of chastity, hatred of Church, hatred of America, hatred of all things male, and hatred of an authoritative discipline over abhorrent and sinful behavior.
“It was most unusual for you to depart from commenting on the substance of a brother priest’s remarks to a character attack. ”
I wonder why it’s so characteristic of liberals to attack persons rather than their ideas. Why ad hominem instead of ad rationem?
I just had a chance to watch the video. What a champion for our faith! How did Fr. Murray get so comfortable in front of the camera! This is exactly what we need, men with the cool of a Newt Gingrich who can articulate the problem clearly with no hedging. Say what you will about Newt Gingrich, I would put Newt in a debate on ideas against anyone. Reason, he is cool under pressure and stays on point without watering things down. Father Murray appears exactly the same way, and boy do we need him and scores like him. Oh to hear reason defended without whimpering or pleading for what is ours, at least in America, by birthright, our religious freedom! I agree with whomever here said he should travel around the country trying to teach what he clearly knows how to do extremely well. It’s refreshing to see such a masculine presence representing our church, our faith, and religious liberty as well.
@robtbrown, interesting comment. And how many in America would sleep better at night right now if our president only had what a Prime Minister had, “a job”, instead of the Messiah-like role our current president has created for himself and which far too many Americans clearly want to put him.
Fr_Sotelo catches my thoughts on frjim’s remarks perfectly. At the very least it’s lacking in charity… but it approaches scurrilous slander and is classic attacking the source instead of even addressing the argument.
Fr. Murray was clear and concise with a great interview on the Catholic moral objections to the sacrifice desired by Caesar Obamus.
I hope Fr. Murray will drop his title “Monsignor”, preferably for something along the lines of “Your Excellency”.
Whoops, it appears I’ve already promoted Fr. Murray. I could have swore he was a monsignor.
“If you like your religion, you can’t keep it.” Good one!
Absit invidia says,
Does anybody remember Joe Biden during the VP debate? The following statement was made by Joe Biden regarding the decision of the HHS to force virtually all employers to include sterilization and contraception, including drugs that may cause abortion, in the health insurance coverage they provide their employees:
“With regard to the assault on the Catholic Church, let me make it absolutely clear. No religious institution—Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic social services, Georgetown hospital, Mercy hospital, any hospital—none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact. That is a fact.”
Joe Biden has never let reality stand in the way of anything that he says.
Robert Brown:
“It was most unusual for you to depart from commenting on the substance of a brother priest’s remarks to a character attack. ”
I wonder why it’s so characteristic of liberals to attack persons rather than their ideas. Why ad hominem instead of ad rationem?
How to address this without being offensive … hmmm … okay, when I was in the seminary we were taught (by the Spiritual Director of all people) that “You can’t ever win an argument with a fundamentalist.” Now, I ‘m not accusing anyone in particular of being a fundamentalist but I’m addressing the whole so-called ad rationem approach which I’ve found (in OTHER venues) to be mind-numbing. I’ve dealt with all kinds of protestant and even Catholics who have an answer for everything, as distorted as their take may be.
I’m a pastor of a medium-small 800-household parish with a very small staff. I do all the masses, and a lot of administrative duties. I’m here (on this blog) because I personally like the host and I don’t find a lot of other places where people talk about the things I care about.
So from time to time I speak my piece and then frankly go about my business. I really don’t have the time or interest in entering into a tug of war with anyone here. In the final analysis it’s not likely that I’m going to change anyone’s mind here or that anyone else is going to change my mind.
I must be missing it, but that was originally in reply from Fr_Sotelo, and then quoted by Henry Edwards and don’t see any reference of Robert Brown to it.
I try to give priests the benefit of the doubt at all times, but hard to see how the reference to Fr. Murray “prostituting” or even “campaigning from the pulpit” could be considered anything but offensive in tone already. As polemics go, Fr Murray’s interview was mild, to say the least, though he clearly finds the HHS requirements as unacceptable as Cardinal Dolan and our beloved host, amongst others.
Uxixu – – –
Oh yes, it was Henry. It’s late here and I’m a bit bleary-eyed.
I don’t really know Fr. Murray or Fr. Morris personally, Uxixu. But I do know FN quite well after having countless opportunities to evaluate it. I deem it manifestly partisan in its current permutation (although in deference to our Reverent Host I do not assume this was the case in 2005). I doubt that anyone on the payroll of FN would ever depart from the talking points determined on a daily basis by Roger Ailes and that is why I characterized them as I did. [Let me repeat: Out. Of. Line. This is offensive.]
– – – JB
Fr. Jim,
I’m a layperson, a 40 year old father to 7 children. I’m not a priest, and I’m astounded that you would backbite a fellow priest this way. This all appears further that you are ignoring Fr. Murray’s message and instead attacking the messenger. This goes against all the advice I have ever received from priests throughout my life. Are you as critical of MSNBC for talking about the nuns the way they do? Moreover, I can’t understand why you would turn on one of your own brother priests this way. I knew there were jealousies and backbiting in the corporate secular world, but this has no place in the sacerdotal life of the man of God. Unlike MSLSD, Fox actually brings your kind on their show – priests faithful to the Magisterium. Your brother priests are in the person of Christ, please at least give them that respect that they deserve, I certainly try to.
Classic leftist though process. He knowingly engages in fallacy (ad persona attacks) which even a first year high school student knows is not argument. He justifies the attack basically admitting his position lacks substantial credibility or content to change anybody’s mind. Then, he continues with his ad persona insinuations and in the same breath goes on with the “faux news” screed. Please see Michael Voris’ latest Dispatch episode to see how left wing even the most partisan right wing hacks on Fox can be. Does Father even consider the alternative which would be the largest defense contractor in the world (General Electric) providing news under NBC, MSNBC and CNBC banners? LOL. That’s a really progressive idea! The progressives now worship at the alter of defense contractors who build all sorts of weapons of mass destruction with the tax monies their leftist confiscatory taxation policies raise. Such hypocrites.
Ok, and there’s never any adhominem attacks here such as on nuns on the bus, etc.
Please, “but he did it too” is simply juvenile. All fallacy. All of it. You should know better.
“more than HALF of so called Catholics supported President Obama. More than HALF. Apparently they LOVE Obama’s disregard of babies, hatred of traditional marriage, hatred of chastity, hatred of Church, hatred of America, hatred of all things male, and hatred of an authoritative discipline over abhorrent and sinful behavior.”
I wouldn’t go so far as to say they “love” all these things. More likely, they prefer the devil they know to the one they don’t — particularly when the “devil” they don’t know (Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, et al.) is consistently presented to them by the MSM as a greedy rich guy out to crush the poor and middle class, or a warmonger itching to push the nuclear button, or a wild-eyed snake-handler who believes the earth is flat.
In the end, they are more willing to tolerate a president who is wrong on the moral/social issues — which many people (wrongly) assume will not affect them personally as long as they themselves aren’t faced with a personal decision regarding abortion, same-sex civil marriage, etc. — than with one who is “wrong” on economic issues that directly affect everyone. I say this NOT to defend Obama in any way or to justify why Catholics would vote for him, but simply to explain how it happened.
FrJim4321,
It’s not a matter of a tug of war or winning arguments. Dialogue is important in discovering the Truth, whether it concerns everyday events or teachings of the Church. But dialogue is not the same as multiple monologues: “Let’s take turns giving our opinions.” Such an approach reduces human discourse to little else than group therapy–or worse, whoever is in power, i.e., in an administrative position, shouts the loudest, or has the bullhorn.
The simple truth is that defending one’s opinions is part of everyday life. Having spent 7 years in computers, I can assure you that it is part of that profession. It’s even in football–it was mentioned the other day that Bill Belichick wants his assistants to challenge everything he wants. And there is little doubt that it is part of married life.
I understand that you’re a hard working priest, and I have written here before that I admire your perseverance in the priesthood. But to say that you don’t have the time to respond to people after you have made comments that are not only offensive to Catholics but also little else than insults (your throwaway reference to fundamentalist is yet another example) doesn’t make a lot of sense. If you want to make back handed comments about Fox News (the reference to Ailes talking points is best silly) , you should be willing to answer questions about where you get your news.
@bookworm, while I do appreciate and understand your perspective, I believe it is much more diabolical than that. If Voris’ statistics are to be believed, Catholics support same sex marriage, same sex unions and abortion at higher rates than the general public. As these are wedge issues of higher profile than even economics, one can only conclude that Obama was elected by Catholics precisely because of his support for these wedge issues and that mainly the Catholic, democratic, female demographic–with a sense of malice and rebellion–elected Obama. Women in general will elect the most stupid, irrational and vile politicians (Pelosi, Wasserman Schultz, etc) as long as they support abortion and now same sex “marriage.” I don’t see the democratic Catholic voting any differently than the democratic population at large.
All of this is due to horrid catechesis. IMO.
frjim4321 says:
Ok, and there’s never any adhominem attacks here such as on nuns on the bus, etc.
I don’t think I did, but you have to admit that they seem aligned with the pro abortion and pro women’s ordination crowd. The would disqualify them claiming to represent the Church.
Fr. Jim43210 (okay, I’m sorry if I’ve not have remembered that exactly; I’m terrible with names) said:
When appealing for hearts and minds, surely it’s necessary to go where the eyes and ears are, and I suspect, alas, that many more of those can be found at either of those two places than are consulting with Fr. Z or consorting with scholarly journals or even parish bulletins.
I’m somewhat at a loss, also, to see how Fr. Murray was either promoting a personal agenda or flaunting his party affiliation. Perhaps you could clarify how he did either of those heinous things?
Barack Obama likes to use the “bully” pulpit to tell his fellow travelers along with the rest of us not to watch Fox. It is always interesting to see who parrots his ahhhh —– suggestion. So far he has stopped short of telling us what we have to watch. Maybe that will be in the third term.
I do remember on another thread that frjim gave a short list of some of the places that he does get the news. Rachel Madow (MSNBC) was mentioned.
I saw Father Murray when he originally appeared on this segment with Judge Jeanine Pirro.
I thought he did a excellent job of presenting the correct information so that even the casual viewer could understand. I am so glad Father Z posted it here.
More of the truth of the Catholic Church needs to be presented in the public square. The other side would like that silenced and they twist words and thought in order to accomplish it.
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