QUAERITUR: Abstinentia de carne lacertina aut crocodrillina

Ex lectoris e-pistulis extractum:

Reverendo patro Ioanni Zuhlsdorfo discipulus C. salutem et commemorationem in precibus suis. Gratias meas, sivis, ob opum tuam tibi agere volo. [Acceptae.] Mihi, catholico iuveni et discipulo in collegio liberalum artis et liberalum (aut impudicarum) mentum, scripturae tuae magnam auxilium fuerunt. Mox Ludovicianam meabo. Quaeritur: Sineturne corpus alligatoris feria VI in Quadregesima sine violando abstinentiam Quadragesimae edere?

Ossificatus manualista impoenitens respondeo de paginis Compendii Theologiae Moralis (Sabetti-Barrett) n. 331, :


Nomine carnis veniunt omnia animalia in terra viventia ac respirantia, ut communiter admittunt theologi ex regula tradita a S. Thoma vel, ut S. Alphonsus innuit, n. 1011, animalia quae sanguinem habent calidum; vel illud quod consuetudo regionis ut carnem habet; vel, si nec consuetudo praesto sit, dubium solvi potest considerando mentem Ecclesiae in sanciendo delectu ciborum, ut comprimendae ac minuendae carnis concupiscentiae per salutarem abstinetiam consuleret; examinetur, an huiusmodi animal simile sit aut dissimile iis quorum esus interdictus est et an illius carnes humano corpori validius nutriendo et roborando idoneae dignoscantur; et si ita appareat, ista caro inter vetitas est ponenda. Benedict XIV., De syn. dioec., lib.11, c. 5, n. 12. Haec quatuor multum deservient omni dubitationi solvendae.

Crocodrilli et lacertae inter reptilia sunt et amphibia.

Edi ergo possunt feriis sextis et tempore Quadragesimae.

Omnibus tamen diebus ab eis edimur.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in "How To..." - Practical Notes, ASK FATHER Question Box, Our Catholic Identity and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.


  1. The Cobbler says:

    Now when Google translate gets this post right, we’ll all be impressed.

    In all seriousness, though, am I following that the reader asked whether crocodile meat is permitted on Fridays in Lent, and the answer is yes because they’re reptiles? More or less?

    This is only barely on-topic, but I have recently decided that the best answer to the objections to the whole differentiation between meat meat and fish/reptile meat is to ask someone when the last time they had fish was and whether they could possibly compare it to the last steak they had.

  2. Maltese says:

    Thanks “Unreconstructed Ossified Manualist”! For years, I have been eating black snakes on Fridays during lent; I would submit that the meat is between a squirrel and a frog. The former not being permitted, and the latter somewhat disagreeable to me, so I prefer the black snake on Fridays during lent to the also permissible frog.

    But I’ve always wondered, in the back of my mind, whether black snake was licit. Now that I know it is, my conscience is free! Thanks! Tonight I shall have black snake cooked in squirrel lard, which I think is permissible?

  3. Archromanist says:

    “Omnibus tamen diebus ab eis edimur.”

    Cachinnandum est! Dignum Aristophane vel utique Plauto!

  4. Maltese: I remind you of what I wrote elsewhere:

    Sabetti-Barrett says:

    “QUAER. 2. Quid dicendum de usu laridi?

    Resp. Certum est non licere illud edere per frustra…

    What is to be said about the use of lard?

    Resp. It is clear that it is not permitted to eat it groundlessly and for an accompaniment with bread, because it is considered meat. It is permitted to use it even in evening snacks (refectiuncula), either as a condiment or in order to cook foods, provided that beforehand it will have been liquified. …

    That said… black snake in squirrel lard.

    Serpentia atra in larido sciuritino decocta.

    I suggest using black squirrel lard.

    I’m having a bowl of cereal.

  5. Dismas says:

    “I have been eating black snakes…the latter (frog) somewhat disagreeable to me” Too funny, best laugh of the day!

  6. Tom in NY says:

    Lacertinis et crocodrillinis ferio sexto in Quadrigesima ranas edere licet?
    Et ex scaena ranae dixerunt, “brekekex, brekekex, coax, coax.”

    Salutationes omnibus.

    [Licet. Sunt Protestantes. Lex non eis pertinet.]

  7. ghp95134 says:

    What a croc!

    Sorta reminds me of the man studying Japanese who tried to apply mnemonics to the language. To remember “arigatou” (thank you) he thought of an alligator. Then when in Japan when he was thanking someone, he said “krokodirro.”
    [insert laugh here]


  8. Tim says:

    Relieved to know that escargots [snails] and cuisses de grenouille [frogs’ legs] are allowed on days of abstinence. I’m not joking — they are commonly available on menus and in the supermarkets in Belgium and France. Quite nice actually.

  9. arotron theou says:

    Certe Protestantibus lex non pertinet, quomodo tamen scis, o Pater, istas reptilias Protestantes esse? Suntne omnes in Ludoviciana Catholici?

  10. Andrew says:

    Alfonsus de Ligorio rem autem sic ponit in opere suo “Manuale Theologiae Moralis” (de lege abstinentiae):

    a) Prae omnibus attendantur aestimatio communis et consuetudo.
    b) Si aestimatio communis et consuetudo deficiant, serventur haec:

    1. Caro censentur animalia, quae in terra vel saltem diu extra aquam vivere solita sunt:
    2. amphibia accensentur animalibus, cum quibus maiorem habent similitudinem.

    Et paulo infra: Piscibus accensentur ranae, limaces, testudines, ostreae, conchae, cammari; idem dicendum de caviali … etc

    Et, istud absque dubio hominibus nostrae aetatis multum placebit: “Si res, spectatis supra dictis, quoad quaedam animalia dubia est, licet ea comedere, donec declaratio Ecclesiae dubium sustulerit.”

    Hucusque S. Alfonsus. Audiamus autem et S. Hieronymum qui minus de eo quod licet et magis de eo quod oportet loquitur:

    “Tantum tibi jejuniorum modum impone, quantum ferre potes. Sint tibi pura, casta, simplicia, moderata, et non superstitiosa jejunia. Quid prodest oleo non vesci, et molestias quasdam difficultatesque ciborum quaerere, carycas, piper, nuces, palmarum fructus, similam, mel, pistacia? Tota hortorum cultura vexatur, ut cibario non vescamur pane, et dum delicias sectamura, regno coelorum retrahimur. Audio praeterea quosdam contra rerum hominumque naturam, aquam non bibere, nec vesci pane; sed sorbitiunculas delicatas et contrita olera, betarumque succum, non calice sorbere, sed concha. Proh pudor, non erubescimus istiusmodi ineptiis; nec taedet superstitionis! Insuper etiam famam abstinentiae in deliciis quaerimus. fortissimum jejunium est aqua et panis. Sed quia gloriam non habet, et omnes pane et aqua vivimus, quasi publicum et commune jejunium non putatur.”

    Veniam peto si unius commentarii modum excessi. Pro paenitentia mea, nihil aliud dicam usque ad finem Martii.

  11. Peter in Canberra says:

    Beware – In Australia, [salt water] crocodiles do not observe the no meat on Fridays rule …

  12. Bea says:

    It seems to me that because crocs are flesh eating animals, they should not be permitted on Lenten Fridays.

    according to wikipedia it is considered “meat”

    Crocodile meat is consumed in some countries, such as Australia, Ethiopia, Thailand, South Africa and also Cuba (in pickled form); it can also be found in specialty restaurants in some parts of the United States. The meat is white and its nutritional composition compares favourably with that of other meats.[citation needed] It tends to have a slightly higher cholesterol level than other meats.[citation needed] Crocodile meat has a delicate flavour; some describe it as a cross between chicken and crab.[citation needed] Cuts of meat include backstrap and tail fillet.

    When in doubt throw it out

    I would throw out all that croc

    Me, I’m having a grilled cheese sandwich, no croc

  13. Tom Ryan says:

    I once heard it said that the distinction that permits fish to not be considered “meat” is by virtue of the fact that it is cold blooded. Therefore, frogs and newts are permitted as are reptiles.

  14. Denita says:

    I was going to ask ehat’s Latin for “Ewww,” But I’m half Cajun, and I’ve seen worse
    recipes in Tony’s Cookbook- alligator tail, anyone?
    (No I’ve never had any)

  15. Bea says:

    crocs and reptiles?
    permitted or not, It still does not sound palatable to my palate and won’t add to my plate.

  16. Suburbanbanshee says:

    Most fish that we eat are omnivorous scavengers, and would have no problem eating flesh that gets into their food area. Most flesh animals that we eat are herbivores. So Bea, your distinction just doesn’t work.

    Crocs aren’t red meat. That’s the distinction that counts in Lent. Reptiles, bugs, all that kind of thing — perfectly fine for Friday abstinence.

    Gator: the Lenten white meat.

  17. Pingback: MONDAY MORNING EDITION | ThePulp.it

Comments are closed.