He shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
However, I suppose that the dicastery headed by non-Card. McCarrick’s former apprentice in Washington, Card. Farrell, deemed it opportune to have Martin there.
At Crisis David Prosen reacts both to homosexualist activist Jesuit James Martin’s talk at the World Meeting Of Families in Ireland, and also the fact of Martin’s talk.
Prosen, who writes and speaks on the topic of “same-sex attraction” from a different viewpoint than than of Jesuit Martin, offers his piece under the title:
What Fr. James Martin Should Have Said in Ireland
Right away he makes a great point.
Somehow, almost overnight, our culture decided that a “LGBT” identity is something that one is born with. There is no research proving this. As a matter of fact, the American Psychological Association website states, that although much research has been done, scientists have not reached a consensus on the causes. However, our culture speaks of people being born “gay or lesbian” as if it is common knowledge.
During an interview for his book, Fr. James Martin, SJ was asked what he would say to one who identifies as “LGBT” and is struggling with this. Martin stated, “God made you this way. You are wonderfully made just like Psalm 139 says you were knit together in your mother’s womb … this way. This is a part of your identity.”
[…]
Let’s hold up right there.
There are many good ideas in Prosen’s article, but let’s linger over this one.
It seems to me that Martin and others are engaged in spreading a colossal lie, a campaign of disinformation.
A gentle preamble.
When we talk about homosexuality, it is good to tread carefully. Firstly, people have properly understood dignity as images of God and we must respect their dignity, even if we must, in charity, point out that homosexual inclinations are disordered and that homosexual acts are grave sins. Next, there are people who love homosexuals as their children, siblings, friends. They have dignity too. I fear that, very often, when these issues come up, and we speak frankly about the reality of disorder and of sin, people who love those who are struggling with these things only hear us, the Church, the Church’s pastors and other members saying – wrongly – that we want them to turn on their loved ones. Sometimes reason is less involved than emotions and they hear something quite different from what we are trying to say.
From this point of view, I will give Jesuit Martin a nod of agreement that we must treat homosexuals with dignity and be careful about how we treat them and their loved ones. That doesn’t mean that we in any way condone homosexual acts or overt lifestyle or, God forbid, equate civilly recognized relationships as anything even close to marriage. We refuse to call the inclinations normal and we will never call the acts anything other than sinful. Our hope and our deeds and words ought to be directed, in Christian charity, to their true good, which means eternal salvation. And, as I have written numerous times, I sincerely believe that people who struggle to be holy under the burden of these inclinations will have a tremendous reward in heaven.
That’s the preamble. Now the tough love. Sometimes charity, which aims at the good of the other, demands sterner stuff.
I fear for the souls of those who push for the normalization of homosexual behavior, especially through the innuendo that God made them that way.
God, who cannot create disorder, permits disorders for the sake of the souls of those who have them and for, ultimately and mysterious, His Greater Glory.
A Jesuit should know that. I think he does know that. Hence, my fear.
Above, Prosen wrote that,
“Somehow, almost overnight, our culture decided that a “LGBT” identity is something that one is born with.”
Review what Jesuit homosexualist activist Martin has said and written in the past. Review what he said at the World Meeting. Note, in the latest presentation in Ireland, how thickly he laid it on.
In response to Prosen’s implicit question, here is what is going on.
It seems to me that people really do know that homosexual behavior is sinful and that there is something not right about the desire to engage in it. We know that, deep down. But, over time, we hear certain voices – not without a measure of eloquence and always salted through with highly emotional anecdotes about cruelty, which serve to shut down reason – that homosexuals don’t have a choice, that they are just that way, that God made them that way, that for them that is their normal.
It is a lie, wrapped in a deceptive package, that calls forth from good people a hesitation. then the master of the art of deception strikes.
That’s what the serpent did, too.
Think about the deception by the serpent in the Garden which caused our First Parents to sin.
The serpent told a huge and unbelievable lie, both huge and unbelievable because it concerned God. In the case of homosexuality, the lie concerned the image of God in us. But the serpent told it big. Told it with conviction.
There is something diabolically persuasive about big lies. It is as if, when people hear them, they think that, “No one would say something that bad … unless… well… could it be true? It is so outrageous that no reasonable person would ask us reasonable people to accept it. Maybe… it could be true! I mean, there are strange things in the world, right?”
And then they hear the lie over and over and over.
They think, “I thought that was crazy before. But they keep saying it. Someone should have debunked it by now, but they keep on saying it. And this guy seems to be a reasonable person. Besides, look at all those sad people up there with him who are so sincere.”
Eve knew that God said that they should not touch the fruit of the tree, lest they die. The serpent, on the other hand, lied, saying, “You shall not die”. Then Eve did the fatal double-take and looked at the fruit again… and we know that, in general, what we look at long enough, we start to want. She accepted the colossal lie and then let reason fall away. Moreover, the serpent focused on Eve alone, not on Adam or Adam and Eve together. Adam was negligent in guarding Eve from the nahash, the serpent. But had the serpent gone for him first it wouldn’t have worked because Adam would have recognized the attack and would have fought. Instead, the serpent went for the softer victim. The enemy focused on one victim at a time and one “enemy” at a time, God. And, in saying that Eve would not die, implied that God was a liar: the biggest lie of all.
The telegraphic conversation of Genesis 3 reveals the subtlety of the craft of lying well and sowing disinformation.
This is, I think, at the core of David Prosen’s implicit question.
We are dealing with experts in the art of disinformation. Moreover, because it concerns something so important, the image of God in us, the lie is colossal. Therefore, it’s scale is, diabolically, convincing. We are asked, in the lie, to deny the reality we know deep down.
Time after time, if Martin is asked to clarify something, he doesn’t clarify. He doubles down. Ask about the gifts that homosexuals bring to the Church. Do they bring them as people, because all people can bring gifts? Or is there something special in their homosexuality that is a gift? That’s what he is implying. What would that be? “Hey! If they bring gifts that only they can bring, then we would be less without them, right?” Moreover, he relentlessly labels those who stick to the Church’s teaching, her faithful pastors, as homophobes, not conceding any good will. Furthermore, he blames them for the tears of the people he talks about plaintively in his touching anecdotes. Then he brings in the colossal lie and repeats it and repeats it and repeats it until people start to let it penetrate past their reason. They hesitate and cave.
Then move as soon as possible to the next talk, the next engagement, the next outrageous presentation. Never let people forget your message. Never admit you are wrong. Don’t concede that your critics have any good in them and blame them for the ills you are quick to talk about. And repeat… repeat… repeat…. And if a big controversy comes up? Great! More opportunities to get the machine fired up.
Besides, his message is really about sex. An easy sell.
For more about the technique of disinformation and how it has been used to undermine the Church, try the invaluable Disinformation: Former Spy Chief Reveals Secret Strategies for Undermining Freedom, Attacking Religion, and Promoting Terrorism by Ronald Rychlak and Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa. US HERE – UK – HERE
The techniques are Jesuitical.
UPDATE:
Meanwhile, at the National Sodomitical Reporter (aka Fishwrap), in their constant effort to abet the normalization of disorder and sin, has a breathy personal account from Ireland. Lesbian discipline of Sr. Margaret “Masturbation” Farley and regular Fishwrap writer Jamie Manson takes pride in the presence of homosexuals hanging out at the World Meeting for Families. Follow the logic in this…
If the organizers of the World Meeting of Families had any hope of playing down LGBTQ issues in the church, those aspirations were quickly and ably dashed by LGBTQ Catholic activists and their allies in Dublin this week. … [But wait!] … As was widely reported, all pro-LGBT groups that applied for a booth in the World Meeting of Families’ exhibit hall were rejected. Most were not even given the dignity of being told they were rejected. They simply did not get a response from the Congress’ organizers.
I guess the organizers weren’t that hopeless.
Also, Fishwrap has recycled Rosica’s attempt to link all the abuse to clericalism. Shameless.
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THIS IS EXCELLENT. Very well written. SO VERY TRUE about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and the temptation of satan. He is the liar of lies so he uses what he knows will hit a soft spot with each person.
Father Martin——-I pray for the man. Confusion follows him.
The thing about we need “homosexuals” in the Catholic Church, so very very true. We need all Catholics to be active in the Church. But to say we need the gifts they bring because they are homosexual. WOW! If that isn’t singling them out because of their sexual orientation then I don’t know what is. SO TROUBLING!
Fr. Martin is not passive; confusion doesn’t just follow him around. He manufactures it and gives it to everyone he encounters. I too will pray for him, that he may ultimately earn whatever fitting, eternal reward that Jesus has for him.
“Moreover, he relentlessly labels those who stick to the Church’s teaching, her faithful pastors, as homophobes, not conceding any good will. Furthermore, he blames them for the tears of the people he talks about plaintively in his touching anecdotes.”
Someday we will wise up and be very suspicious of arguments that are premised on compassion. OF COURSE, we should BE compassionate.
But compassion can be used and is being used as a propaganda device. See The Tragedy of American Compassion by Martin Olasky in which he shows how arguments from compassion led to policies that were very destructive of the black family.
The most effective pro-abortion arguments have been arguments from compassion. We should kill babies out of compassion for their distressed mothers.
Out of compassion for the families of suicides, we promote a very effective pro-suicide argument, namely that persons mentally ill are not guilty of mortal sin and surely will not go to hell if they kill themselves. I wonder how many suicides that compassionate argument has precipitated, for given that train of thought, ifI have been severely depressed for ten years then surely God will forgive my taking my own life. So also in this case, the poor homosexual person was born this way, and so we should be careful of attaching any moral stigma to this condition or its activities. Lately, I do not remember where, I read of a bishop in the middle ages who heard that a nun who had committed suicide was buried in consecrated ground. He had her body dug up and cast out into a nearby field. Of course, this sort of thing would be very hard on her community and family, but a severe caution for anyone thinking of taking his own life. it was very likely in its effects the truly compassionate thing to do, however cruel it may have seemed in the moment. Our kinder gentler approach gives no one pause, and may very well be partly. responsible for our very high rate of suicide
Of course, we give the game away anytime we in our faux kindness acknowledge that there is any such creature as a homosexual person. Do we speak of larcenous persons, of their disordered desires? Or nymphomaniacal persons and their disordered desires? Of murderous persons? Do we have special masses for people with these tendencies? Where is the ministry to kleptomaniacs? To fornicators? Surely their disordered desires deserve some recognition. and accommodation. Surely rapists will feel bad if we say an unkind word.
As a matter of fact we are very harsh in effect when we allow ourselves to be manipulated by those who tug on our heartstrings to promote or tolerate vice.
Just a couple of points:
1. How does the church expect to regain credibility when the Holy Father does not acknowledge the obvious root cause of the latest crisis (It’s homosexuality, not exactly “clericalism”), and the keynote speaker at the world meeting of families is Fr. James Martin, arguably an advocate for moral indifference when it comes to homosexuality?
2. Where are these ‘homophobic priests’ Fr. Martin was talking about?? They must be in the same far away parish as those priests who ‘make the confessional a torture chamber’. I’ve never met even one such priest in either case.
3. The issue of gay persons, and families with gay members, being included in the Church is an important one. Souls who are left out are souls who are not converted. But I don’t see anyone looking to convert these souls. It seems everybody talking about this topic just wants us to make a place for them in the pew. No one is placing church teaching on a pedestal. Martin himself didn’t even talk about chastity in his book. If no one is going to care about salvation, church teaching, and the way of peace through Christ, by living and acting in unity and friendship with him, then a place in the pew is pointless.
At times like this I wish you had a “like” button. I so completely agree with what you have written here. People believe to “love” a person means to agree to everything they say and do. It doesn’t. We can disagree on this and still love our friends or family with same-sex attraction, and hopefully they can still love us. We shouldn’t compromise our belief system or condone what we don’t agree with, but there is no reason not to choose love, and be kind. It doesn’t always work. Not today.
James Martin is a scandal. Thankfully the church has no credibility on the sexual abuse of boys issue, because as long as James Martin is promoting homosexuality the church has no room to talk. It can’t condemn what it allows or promotes.
This whole relentless blaming of “clericalism” is such a dodge. It means whatever you want it to mean, and it’s meaningless, and so it’s a convenient excuse to dodge the truth and the reality and accountability.
Sr Farley’s book has got a notification by the CDF during the +Benedict was Pope. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20120330_nota-farley_en.html
“During an interview for his book, Fr. James Martin, SJ was asked what he would say to one who identifies as “LGBT” and is struggling with this. Martin stated, ‘God made you this way.’”
During an interview following his meeting with Pope Francis, Juan Carlos stated the Pope told him, “That you are gay does not matter. God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care.”
Identical circumstances. Identical theme.
Clearly, Father Martin has been commissioned by Pope Francis to sow the world with this evil.
The source of the problem isn’t Father Martin, it’s Pope Francis, and it’s been made abundantly clear during the past five years who he serves.
You mention NCRs article naming clericalism as the root of the evil in the Church. I this idea is more correct than we may give them credit for, though not on exactly the way they mean it. The church has been infected by a feminized clergy, feminized theology, a watering down of all hard truths. The Padre Perigrino article you referenced earlier speaks at length about this. In this new order the priests have been made the center of the liturgy. It is the worst sort of clericalism that says “look at me! I’m important! And if you want to be important too you should be on the altar as a lector, choir members, or Eucharistic minister!” The best priests I have known disappear into the liturgy, “say the black, do the red.” In doing so they allow Christ to show through. I don’t think this is what NCR had in mind….
Taking this further, NCR mentions the “boys club” of clericalism. If anything has been shown over the past week of op eds and seminary tell all’s it’s that this club is very real, and very centered on the clerics in the club. Usually these clubs are centered around a particular sin. Again, not what I think the NCR had in mind.
Clericalism is a real problem, but the best way to root it out if to stop pretending that lay people must be in the sanctuary to be important, or that the priest needs to make mass more “personal”. The mass developed to show forth the person of Christ. That’s as personal a mass as I will ever need. Stick to the rubrics. Stick to tradition. Let the liturgy speak for itself. Let Christ speak for himself.
Let’s be totally honest, folks; there is no such person as a Homosexual. There are people who have a psychological/psychiatric condition and they need to be under the care of a psychologist/psychiatrist. Am I being a bit harsh? Yes, my late wife was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic “and” she “was” born that way. Schizophrenia “is” genetic” and runs in families and nobody would say that Schizophrenia is “normal”. We were married for 37 years of which 35 of those years we both had to deal with her hallucinations and imaginary voices; which, to her, were totally real. The human g-Nome has been totally analyzed and there is no such gene as a homosexual gene. The societal problem is where it is because we have ignored common sense and didn’t speak up. The same thing with so-called Trans-gendered. A male can not become a female and a female can not become a male. their skeletons are different. Sadly, people are incapable of thinking anymore. For the first time in human history; the level of “Common Sense” has decreased in humans. Wake-up people; the Left has even more perversions they want legalized.
Excellent analysis, Father. My hope (possibly vain) is that the sheer outrageousness of Martin’s talk and its wicked content will spark a counter-reaction that will lift a tide of rejection against his ideas, even in the hierarchy. Aside from that, how dare the Vatican allow something like this in the first place. It is incredible, and perhaps the most telling strike of all against the legitimacy of this papacy.
Does Robert George still think we should give James Martin the benefit of the doubt? Does he still believe James Martin is faithful to and assents to Catholic doctrine? Or have people already forgotten and is Robert George counting on people having poor memories? Will Robert George say anything about James Martin’s speech?
God made certain people homosexuals . . . just as He made vegan lions.
“People do not believe lies because they have to but because they want to.”
– Malcolm Muggeridge
“A man may lie to himself very prettily, but he can never really escape from the knowledge that it is a lie.”
– Melinda Selmys, former lesbian
“Do not accept anything as love which lacks truth.”
– Edith Stein
From Robert R. Reilly’s book “Making Gay Okay”.
Reilly explains in his book that those pushing the “Gay Agenda” will NEVER be at peace until EVERYONE is on board with acceptance.
Yes, even Holy Mother Church.
This is the final battle.
There really is no room in the church right now for traditional families who are dealing with SSA children. They are told to “love” their child (as if they didn’t). The parents don’t want their kids to go to hell. No words of comfort. No words of understanding. But all the priests care about is reminding the parents how they should act. The focus is on what they might do wrong towards their child. No correction of the child. Or reminding the parents to pray and fast for their child’s soul. Even more traditional priests seem to accept that people are “gay” but should be chaste. No one wants to consider that there’s a psychological issue that is being encouraged. People are incorrectly self-diagnosing themselves and everyone is helping them including the church!
There was a time when FR. Martin would have received an invite from the CDF or the pope himself to discuss such a range of views, rather than being appointed… Apparently tough love is out of fashion and considered hate speech
God made you this way? No no no no no! Original Sin causes disorder in Nature. Concupiscence misleads. Evil people victimize. But all of this is a deviation from the grand design of the Creator, wherein He shares His creative power with humans in complementary male and female pairs. We don’t understand this–how could we?– but we see it, accept it, and thank Him for it.
But that serpent is still hissing “you shall be as gods”–presumably gods free to destroy and remake Creation at will in defiance of God. Eve fell for it, Adam went along with it, and we currently see many (Legion?) eager to sow disorder in God’s plan under the hijacked rainbow sign of His covenant.
Same old lie, same old Liar.
“Adam was negligent in guarding Eve from the nahash, the serpent. But had the serpent gone for him first it wouldn’t have worked because Adam would have recognized the attack and would have fought. Instead, the serpent went for the softer victim.”
And why is that, Fr. Z.? Because women, from the start of the creation, were created weaker and stupider than men? And because of this they need to be ‘guarded’ by a man all the time? Because they don’t fight the devil? And because all men, inherently, are clever and quick to recognise all plots of the devil immediately and they fight it valiantly every time?
I agree with your analysis otherwise – with the exception of the above.
ABird makes an excellent point. The lavender mafia phenomenon is an example of the worst kind of clericalism – corrupt clergy who put their loyalty to each other above their loyalty to Christ and his Church. At the heart of it is clergy involved in sexual relationships with each other who cover for each other, protect each other, promote each other and oppress clergy who stand up for chaste celibacy.
At the periphery are clergy in illicit relationships with women, closer to the center are clergy who engage in sex with non-clergy and at the heart is networks of clergy sodomizing each other. Pederasty is another word for recruitment into the network.
Fr. Z. is right on the money with his identifying the tactic as disinformation.
What is worth noting, too, is that a lot of these homosexualist activists seek revenge against opposition. Just look at what they did to Mike Pence when he was Governor of Indiana. Would they do that to others if they can? Probably.
And, it is worth noting that there may be a large number of pro-“LGBT” or “LGBT”-sympathizers in government positions with lots and lots of power – like “intelligence” entities as well as law enforcement.
Do you think those people (law enforcement and those with surveillance powers) will seek revenge if they can get it? Probably.
And, law enforcement and/or the surveillance or “intelligence” agencies can get that revenge anonymously, without you ever knowing who did it. And if you do find out that they are seeking revenge against you, you are almost entirely powerless to stop it.
As one who has likely been the victim of unlawful surveillance ( 2 computers likely hacked, cell phones surveilled through the microphone and video camera, home phone became merely a live microphone for surveillance, and yes, they may have even been getting into my car, moving things around in the car, among other frightening things they have likely done, while I have no power to stop it), I can say that it is very necessary for good priests and prelates to be wise as serpents regarding those who they trust. Surveillance makes entrapment much easier, and those with the disinformation and pro-“LGBT”/pro-liberal mentality will likely utilize every tool at their disposal.
And as I have mentioned in other comments, I live in a medium size city run by liberals. It appears as though there is a surprisingly large number of plain-clothed surveillance persons that attend Mass, go to Adoration Chapels, etc. Be on the lookout for plain-clothed persons who are really working for what appears to be a type of secret police force. Call me crazy all you want, but logically speaking, the Leftists in America are increasingly becoming like the National Socialists Party (NAZI party), and one of their main entities was the Gestapo. History is repeating itself in America at the present time.
It was interesting to hear Father Martin compare LGBTs to Zacchaeus, the socially despised, tax collector. “An encounter with Jesus leads to a conversion, as it does for everyone,” he said.
So, what is the ultimate conversion for the LGBT Catholics in Father Martin’s mind? Zacchaeus gives to the poor and repays those who he has defrauded. After being wholeheartedly embraced by the Church communitty, hearing that God made them the way they are (gay) from priests, and reading in a (potential) future version of the CCC that they are “differently ordered” rather than “disordered”, are LGBTs going to renounce their lifestyle, change their sexual practices, etc.? Father Martin doesn’t say.
EXCELLENT responses here from everybody.
philosophicallyfrank says: So very sorry for your wife’s illness and the struggles you had. Thank you for sharing with us about it.
monstrance thank you for those quotes.
What happened to loving someone so much that you tell them the truth and help them to get to Heaven. All we can do is give them the facts and be there for them if they choose to go on continuing in sin it is on them. BUT to not tell them the truth or to support them in their sinful ways as being loving is just WRONG!
“WRONG IS WRONG even if everybody is doing it. RIGHT IS RIGHT even if no one is doing it. ”
I try to remember what Jesus said to the woman at the well. He told her the TRUTH of her sins and didn’t sugar coat anything. With the woman who was about to be stoned he said your sins are forgiven GO AND SIN NO MORE! Am I perfect—NO NOT by a long shot. Is anybody perfect—NO NOT by a long shot but it doesn’t mean we just give up and say “Oh well that’s how I am I can’t change”. When we face our sins and try to change and continue to go to Confession and try again and again and again to overcome our sins that is what makes Saints. But just wallowing in our sins and saying “Oh poor pitiful me I was made this way” and not even trying to change that is a whole different “kettle of fish! Also if we do that same thing for others and say “OH poor thing they have SSA and they NEED to live that life to be happy and feel like they belong so I can’t tell them the TRUTH of what the Church teaches” NOPE NOT gonna wash when we face the Lord. Sure we love them, sure we help them as much as we can but also SURE we tell them the ABSOLUTE TRUTH to save their eternal souls. We don’t cave in to society saying let them be, they have this struggle let them live the way they need to.
I’d do the SAME THING for any heterosexual family member or friend I loved if they were living in fornication. I would give them the TRUTH, love them and help them in any way I could to get out of that sinful lifestyle. It can’t be a different way just because the person might be SSA. TRUTH IS TRUTH 100% of the time 100% of the circumstances and 100% of whoever it is we are dealing with. TRUE love is giving the person the TRUTH not sugar coating anything or giving them lee way because they are SSA.
ALL SINGLE PEOPLE MUST REMAIN CHASTE. Whether you are SSA or opposite sex attracted if you are not married you MUST remain CHASTE. If you are married you must remain chaste in your marriage and TRUE to your marriage vows. If you are a Priest or Consecrated Religious Brother or Sister or unmarried Deacon you MUST remain celibate (unless you were not Catholic, had already married and then joined the Catholic Church and became a Catholic Priest). NO Ifs, ands or buts about it. It goes for everybody. No one is being singled out or asked to do any more or less than anybody else. Until people realize this this mess won’t get better.
I don’t think Jesus would have ever said OH I don’t want to hurt their feelings or make them feel bad for what they are doing so I won’t correct them. NOPE, He gave it to them like it was and He does the same for us today. Loving somebody is NOT letting them continue to live in sin that could send them to hell for eternity. Loving somebody is NOT shaming them or putting them down or making fun of them but instead giving them what they need to know to change and become Saints.
“I fear for the souls of those who push for the normalization of homosexual behavior, especially through the innuendo that God made them that way.”
Even the present pontiff seconds this misinformation!
On another note: a friend of mine has a religious store and often bring holy items for sale to various conferences. She was turned down for this one; holy items were not wanted there…no Sacred Hearts or Immaculate Hearts, etc. This conference is of another sort of “religion” and the powers that be support that direction.
CatholicCoffee says: And why is that, Fr. Z.? Because women, from the start of the creation, were created weaker and stupider than men?
You introduced words that I did not use: “weaker… stupider” are your words, not mine. However, I think we can agree that, in general, women are weaker than men. “Stupider”? In some things men seem to do better and in others women seem, in general, to do better. Men and women are different. However, Adam had a charge from God that the woman did not have: “dress and keep the garden”. He had a job to do and he didn’t do it very well. He job was to help him (Gen 2:20). She didn’t do that very well either.
Next, they need to be ‘guarded’ by a man all the time?
God created Adam and placed him in the garden “to keep it”, that is, God gave into Adam’s charge the guarding and protection of the garden and everything in the garden, which included Eve. Adam was negligent in his duty to guard Eve from the nahash. Moreover, God would say more about that in Gen 3:16.
However, your wording twisted what I wrote into something else.
Because they don’t fight the devil?
Did the woman (later to be called Eve) fight the Devil? No, she did not. However, God said to the women (and to the 2nd Eve who would come) and to all women through time (there was only one at that moment) that there would be enmity between them and serpent. I take that very much as fighting against the Devil. God said that to the woman, not to Adam.
because all men, inherently, are clever and quick
How clever at quick did Adam appear to be? First, he wasn’t quick to be near the women when the enemy came. Then he went along with the really stupid idea the serpent gave her. The result? It is through men that Original Sin is passed down.
Men and women are different. They have differing roles and aptitudes. It has ever been so, if Scripture is to be believed.
When I begin to despair about the homosexuality in the Church, I remember that my grandmother died a Catholic with the Little Sisters of the Poor, and I think about Traditional Orders like these Nuns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMF04ErFVaE
Fr Martin is truly diabolical in his presentation. He is treating a person as the sum of their temptations and their sins. That the person, temptation, and sin are one indivisible unit. Under Fr. Martin’s formulation to hate the sin is to hate the sinner. It is very close to the snow covered dung heap of Luther. A snow covered dung heap has not undergone any real transformation, nor is it capable of transformation. A life of grace and holiness involves transformation and conversion. Fr. Martin’s presentation is corrosive to this transformation and conversion. A saint fights temptation and sin.
*
All the progressive talk of phobias is like the abuse of psychiatry done by the old Soviet Union to silence political opponents.
There is something I would like to understand better:
“The techniques are Jesuitical.”
Is this to mean that I should be wary of *anything* that comes from Jesuits? I’m a little confused on what to take from that.
Thanks for keeping up the good fight on this topic, Father.
Thank you for responding, Fr. Z., I appreciate it.
Yes, I introduced words you did not use; the rephrasing was employed to intentionally magnify and reflect back how part of your message came across. I certainly agree with you on men and women being different and generally good at different things.
I think we can agree that, in general, women are weaker than men
If you mean physically, then certainly.
God gave into Adam’s charge the guarding and protection of the garden and everything in the garden, which included Eve.
Everything. Eve is not a “thing”. She is a human being, created in the image of God (Gen 1:27), just as Adam. She is not part of the ‘property’.
[Okay, that’s ridiculous. We’re done here.]
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